CM or CC armor for TL5

[Docharmm]

I just dusted off my 165 enfo and planning to retwink it. Now my problem is where to use CM or CC armor. The reason am having a tought time choosing one is mainly bcos of HP and the high number of clan agents i will meet in BS if i do. As any1 who has played around in tl5 BS, they are plenty of agents around would definitely cap u and destroy whatever coccon u have in secs

So my question is would it be better in pvp to use CC armor (low hp) or CM armor.

CC armor setup (not an evade setup)
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=94620

CM armor
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=94618

Please any advise would be appreciated.

[Obtena]

I'm going to be CM ... HP is a more significant defense for enfos that level in my opinion. I know I see people saying it but I don't believe that enfos get a significant enough AAD to be an evade class.

[Enfizzle]

CC looks sexy.
better dodge ranged / evade close defense in your CC setup anyhow.

Id looks @ def2 research + defensive aug device + ring of luck defensive with a CC setup - maybe a notucom to.

Having less hp would mean you would die faster, but having CC means you can sacrifice some AR items to get higher evade defenses, as well as suffering less from AS / Sneak (?) - on paper id say the CC setup looks hihgly effective, and less cookie cutter is always good.

[Obtena]

The question here is to have more AAO or HP ... sorry I was confused. CC gives AAO and CM gives HP.

Anyways, I guess the question is if you think that HP is more useful than AR. Personally, I think you can have a good balance of both and be effective.

[Megidoslam]

One thing to note is the qls that will be viable for each type of armor. Since you are atrox the ql CC you will be able to equip and use non-oe will be much lower than that of the CM you can use. Atrox can use ql 270 CM and have it be non-oe w/ little more than self buffs, 210-220 symbs and the ado brain. Higher CM will add more base skill which will help to offset the lack of AAO. Higher CM will also provide more AAD (Ql 270 is +14). The difference in the CC and CM I could equip (and yours may be different, better or worse) is +44 AAO for CC and +22 AAD and +2500 HP and ~1k ACs for CM. The HP is nice as well, but in most cases agents/fixers/soldiers are going to be capping FA and AS either way, and sometimes even burst. In addition, CM is a lot cheaper than CC. You can make a set of CM for roughly 1.4-1.5B, but CC would be much higher.

IMHO I would use CM. It's cheaper, more AAD, more HP (a lot more than 0), and w/ the difference in QL not much less AAO. Plus, as an Enf, you should have good AR regardless. I have 1943 self buffed w/ challanger and no LE procs, and even that is by far not as good as it could get. A better tower, Flapper Ribbons, 230 symbs and AI tank would push me to roughly 2025 AR w/ just Challanger and just over 2200 w/ both LE Procs; unfortunatly my org only has a low base, no contracts and I am using evade items for some of the other +AR slots.

2c - Megido

[PingBong]

sadly in ao setups there is no such thing as balance or compromise, there are clear lines of attack/def rating which define lacking or overkill, best setups are done by pinpointing these lines

[Tysken]

im CM.. and it works fine i think

[Docharmm]

Thanks for all the reply, i was already leaning towards CM even though i dont exactly know why i would want high HP. But i now see the ql of the CM i twink in could offset the AR gain from CC. Just wish they werent so many agents at TL5 CC just looks hawt

So now if any1 have a 260 - 270 CM pants, boots and head pst tell docharmm (RK2)

[Mamman]

If you choose to go for CC do it for the extra AR, not for the lesser HP. I think lower HP will just make you easier prey for agents when factoring in the perks they have.

Low HP no longer makes coccoon last longer.

[Armus]

Choose CM. At leat if you are trox. You can use 265 CM at that level, but you will likely be stuck att 223 ish cc. That means in addition to all the hp you also get more aad and 21 pts more weap skills. So the diff in offense will not be that uber.

[Manaas]

250 cc has been done by trox at tl5 the extra aao means its better than 265 cm

[Megidoslam]

250 cc has been done by trox at tl5 the extra aao means its better than 265 cm

I imagine one would have to make significant sacrifices in order to get the agi to keep it non-OE which would in turn probably reduce AR/Evades/HP/Nanoskills in from other items.

40 AR for the 15 agi on Research device for starters which is significant alone

[Canibaal]

I myself have 170/19 enforcer, atm i am in twinking process and i have decieded to wear 264-267 CM peices in all spots except chest which is gonna be 255. I am still thinking if i should stick with silken glooves for more AR or go for 264 CM glooves which means i loose 40-27=13 AR , but will get ACs and little more HP also.

I have also calculated that I will be able to get 220 symbs in most spots except eye and right hand where i will place 210. The most painfull part is reseting all perks and chain replacing treatment imps in order to equip 240ish treat imps.

Atm im doing pen garden key for +10 treat hud and then i will also do Pen Quest for higher CS and finally start twinking my enf.I have already collected CM armor and symbs, hopefully i will be done in 2 weeks.

[Mamman]

I have also calculated that I will be able to get 220 symbs in most spots except eye and right hand where i will place 210. The most painfull part is reseting all perks and chain replacing treatment imps in order to equip 240ish treat imps.

Persisting eye and right hand (same setup works for both, just use a treatment eye implant until you put the right hand in.) I'm 165 so I didn't look at any vigorous symbs but right arm is not a problem, waist should be doable too. Eye is probably very difficult though.

[Canibaal]

@Mamman

u have HI specs but i dont, still i got a replacemnt for it^^

Replace HI specs(-20 sense) by Biomech armor(+10 treat)
Replace med glooves(-10treat) by Bellum glooves(+18 sense)

Now u got lya shoulder pad but i dont, still got replacement for it^^

Replace lyas pads(-14 sense) by VTE(+3treat)
Put Advanced scent sensor(+22 sense) but we have treat lib there on that slot so we loose 18 treat. But u used 230 treat imps, im planning to go for 240ish treat and will use +20 sense guns.

And yes u are using COA which adds + 7 treat, but im using Prototype Cyborg Token Board which adds +12 treat and +5intel.

Well atm im just speculating but actual senario will be visible when I actually start twinking

[smallfoe]

TL5 Opi here and maintaining agility for 223 commandos is a pain since we have not much agi in our symbs I wouldnt go higher than 214 ish on a trox (or opi for that matter)
as someone said here imo you get more benifit/luxury of having 267 mercs and being able to wear whatever items you want rather than babysitting agility

[Docharmm]

Geeze, i didnt even think persistent was doable for atrox. Now I will need to try getting it on. Thanks for the setup Mamman. just going to need HI specs now to make it work

Also i want know from any1 who has tried putting 275 ofab on a 170 atrox, whether it easy to keep out of OE?

[Mamman]

I also used cyborg treatment thing when I actually put it on, but yeah like you say there's many possibilities to mix and match your treatment/sense. I went for the items I already had in my bank, If you don't want to get fly catchers I'm sure you can get around them with bellum gloves or scent sensor like mentioned

Contracts can also be an option, I didn't use any of them

You need 806 stamina to keep 275 ofab out of OE, it's not too hard but it requires some level of sacrifice, sleeves and rings is probably enough. At that point it would also be pretty silly to not go for 811 instead so you also get 2s healdelta.