Pocketing in PvP ruins PvP, healing should give flags

[Crysantimum]

One must limit definitions somewhere, Oddgrim. Like Essence being a heal on top of normal hps if you wish, AC buffs being healing in the form of less damage (healing the damage according to 1/10 of ac unless capped), evades...

I do not dispute that hots are powerful.

I agree with OP and if it is mechanics that can solve it would it not be to foreign to have the same for hots in my opinion.

[Wilsonat]

We're only concered with direct heals, and HoTs. As well as absorbs. The other buffs don't matter nearly as much as they can't negate 100% or more damage, like the 220 doc heal/CH/absorb spam can. Some buffs are a part of pvp (RRFE and spec blockers) and due to the rarity of 1v1 fights, they're vital to making the fun last, as most people can't tank 5+ people for an extended period of time.

As to inadvertant heals and accidental flags, the phrase "too damn bad" comes to mind. When standing in TG/bor/OA there's really not all that much use for a HoT, and hopefully a helpful omni will see the now flagged doc/fixer and send them to reclaim.

[IHaveHugeNick]

you're saying that a HoT isn't a heal?
that's silly.

HoT is a BUFF , silly boy.

[Technogen]

So what about BR and aoe heal perks? So someone gets flaged runs up to an alien raid thats going on the doc uses a BGH and gets flaged and gets ganked then the raid force gets wiped out.

Face it fokes the flag system is broken and a bad system from the start. Instead of demanding removing some parts of pvp, we should be demanding a better pvp system.

[Wilsonat]

Firstly the odds of someone having a flag, being that malicious, and being in a city while a raid is going on with people he can do that to are hugely unlikely.

Secondly, if they kill the general they get banned, or even if they don't touch it, I'm still reasonably sure that's harassment, against the EULA in some way, and therefore not applicable.

Thirdly, BR and BGH fall under the previously mentioned "too damn bad" category. Thirdly any alien raid that gets wiped by 1 flagged person was probably doomed anyways.


Keep trying to discredit this idea tech, one day you might get lucky.

[Technogen]

umm, Ok fine I'll give you counter points.

1 There are tons of people who go around already with the flags to flag engies and NTs that are doing pvm, I personaly have been attacked when zoning in to inf twice when i've had my snares up in SL. There's gankers in the game this would just open up 1 way for them to gank esier.

2 Who said they were going after the boss, FC didnt do a dang thing when the clans showed up to newland and brought flags and ganked the tanks at the GM alien raids, so I dont think they will really do anything about city raids if they dont loot anything.

3. Everyone's not an advy, if a level 300 gen comes stomping down on you odds are you're going to die with out a doc.

So when you feel like playing the same game the rest of us do please come up with arguements that acutaly hold up for longer than 5 petaseconds.

[Wilsonat]

1) how would it make it easier for them to gank? Killing a loan PvM engi who isn't expecting it is quite a bit harder than killing a well buffed team (or more than one team) with a doctor/some form of tank/and usually some type of secondary healing, especially when those people are actually watching the team hp expecting it to drop.

2) No one owns a GMed spawned monster, that's fair game. City bosses belong to the spawners, loot or not or even if they don't touch it, the people are able to petition for harassment and it would be so.

3) Since generals never target gankers either.

So when you feel like playing the same game the rest of us do please come up with arguements that acutaly hold up for longer than 5 petaseconds.

[Novafox]

Do you have any idea how often I see some jackass with a flag run up and stand right next to my engie for 10 seconds, strafing around me? It is blatant what they are looking for, hoping that I have my blinds or something else running. And its harassment. That doesn't stop them from doing it.
Nothing stops the retards at ToTW training guards to flag omnis who forgot to turn off auto-attack, then gank the flagged omnis. Now you want to be able to gank the people in their team who heal them? Hell no, that is ridiculous.
And you can say no one will show up to an AI raid to ruin it, yet we all know that happens already. Generals have been KSed, APF bosses and Zods have been ODed by teams completely incapable of getting there on their own, and people do get ganked while hecklering outdoors. I've seen flagged retards run up to my team in all the outdoor XP/SK zones, Elysium, Adonis, and even Inferno, and all with the very obvious intent of spreading the flag and ganking someone in the team. It does happen.
These suggestions are horrible, as they open up so many more people to griefing from unintentional flags. I often fire off my AOE heal perk on my engie when I stop at my org's spot in Borealis. Theres often some lowbies rezzing nearby. Why should I ever get flagged for that?
Flags are BROKEN. We all know it. They were supposed to be punishment for attacking your own guards. Instead they are the way lazy PVPers get their action, with all of the backyard and title hugging they can handle, acting like they have never heard of 25% gas zones, and some of them have probably never even fought in one. Instead of trying to fix them, you want to make them even worse? Seriously, get real.
The better solution is to get rid of flags entirely, and figure out a better system. They don't work right, and they empower people interested in griefing.

[Wilsonat]

orly?

You realize there's a command in game called /petition, and regardless of what you may think FC does actually respond to it's use.

Just some minor issues with your post such as:

Theres often some lowbies rezzing nearby. Why should I ever get flagged for that?

Your own side ganks you? Since that heal doesn't heal people of the opposite faction. And if your own side ganks you, you probably deserve it.

Flags are BROKEN. We all know it. They were supposed to be punishment for attacking your own guards

Got an official FC post on that? I always thought mr unicorn commander 1 shot killing me at low levels, and every guard in a 50 mile radius jumping on me now was the punishment. But eh. And flagged people are now guards? You get flags for attacking them too, FC even implemented quests that specifically get you flagged. But whatever.

[Peekiri]

just make it so you have to be flagged to heal

[Taikwandodo]

Now really i haven't whined before about this aspect of the game but 2 days ago something happened that made me so pissed off. I was pvping as usual in OA and when i was about to kill some1, a 130 doc did CH. He did it once, twice, 50 times.... Now pls do something about this. Just think about our free time. I come from work and i want to play AO and i wanna pvp and some froob who can CH is ruining my and others time and fun. I even asked him to stop .. ppl asked him too .. he was just enjoying ironicly the "POWER OF HIS 130 DOC".

[Vlain]

Personally, I don't care about HoTs on this issue, but you shouldn't be able to target-heal a flagged person if they are outside of your teaming level range.

I've supported the idea of giving flags to pocket healers in the past, but the more I think on it, I don't think that would really solve anything in the case of tl7 ppl healing lowbies. I walk around bor for hours with a flag up, so that solution isn't really an incentive to prevent healing lowbies. It would only reduce healing from pockets at their own level range.

Perhaps both ideas need to be implemented: both flagging pockets, and restricting heals on flagged people outside of your teaming range.

Not sure what to say about AoE heals, that could be a bit of a snag.

[Lillagumman]

Personally, I don't care about HoTs on this issue, but you shouldn't be able to target-heal a flagged person if they are outside of your teaming level range.
.

seems I agree with Vlain here for some reason. Could be that it is dead on what I think is right.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Its not broken flag system, its just what "bring back bore pvp" flame war on forums made. You guys wanted 75% area without guards, crowded, easy to access, with buffers, tradeskillers, reclaims, shops, backyards, lowbie dungeon areas, NPCs , all massed at small square of land, and thought pvp spot like this will actually work? Well bad for you.

[Vlain]

pocket docs were a problem way way before bor ever went 75%

[IHaveHugeNick]

Of course it was, but in WA you had only dedicated pocket docs or simply some dual logged retards. In Borealis things are different - because its a damn living breathing city and almost everone goes there even not seeking for pvp, any doc or advie from your side coming by, can hit you with CH - if you want it or not. Hell even i hit my crappy area heal every time when i'm coming out of the grid to do tradeskill for someone, because after all it helps my side.

[Thermonuke]

also, AoE nukes from NT's shouldnt get them flagged, nor should aura's running on crats or engi's, or AoE perk heals, it would completely eliminate the griefers and gankers aspect of PvP, people who want to fight will still fight, and maybe make it a little harder for some to farm titles.

now before anyone says about NT's using it as a way of ganking, just make AoE's ineffective against other players, i'm sure anyone who has been to a big tower fight as an NT and clicked kels by mistake will agree that reflects make AoE's in pvp the worst possible option anyway.

tighten the rules on flagged players as was said before, so they can only be buffed/healed by someone in their pvp range and also flagged, no need to make innocent ppl suffer because some flagged player runs past them, make it so u cant inadvertantly get flagged by someone, but u must be flagged to participate.

why shouldnt ppl be able to use the best possible buffs they have, or team heals, because of the chance that someone nearby will get them flagged? engi's, crats, NT's all have area effect nano's that they currently cant use in most area's because of the risk involved, it makes them less efficient, all because of the actions of a few people looking for a title.

so to sum up, if my engi is running snares and blinds, but i'm not flagged, they wont have any effect on anyone around me who is flagged, if i choose to engage someone in PvP, i get flagged, and they work as intended, cant be that hard to code seeing as perk heals and SB's wont work on opposing factions the same way they work on your own faction.

[Vlain]

I see your point, but pre-Bor75% also had bor-newland whompa wars, and bor FT wars, and OA hill - all heavily populated areas.

[Novafox]

Your own side ganks you? Since that heal doesn't heal people of the opposite faction. And if your own side ganks you, you probably deserve it.

Are you serious? I really can't tell if you're trolling even more than usual or you really think that.
I get flagged from the flagged neut running by at the same time my perk fires, and its the title farmer omniclan afterwards who would gank. Since when do you only gank flagged people on your own side?
And ask yourself, why does an omni get flagged for trying to attack his own guard? So he can go duel someone? What kind of stupid mechanic is that? This is an RP game, these things have logical explanations to them.
If you don't like pocket docs, go to 25% gas. Why don't you go fight for 4 holes? Get out of Borealis. Maybe with enough pocket docs, all the PVPers will leave Borealis in frustration and I can get through there without lagging into every second shop. Borealis PVP as it is currently is a joke, and it has nothing to do with pockets.

[Vlain]

Nope, you will lag in bor regardless of pvp'ers. Guaranteed.