Freelance: UCN; A Proposal for Corruption

[Astera]

Whats happening is that you're arguing my argument, backpeddling in typical fashion, like anyone who is beat and can't let it go.

The Council is doing the best it can with what it has. Because you can't or won't see that does not make it lesser to those who believe in it. I am a fanatic when it comes to making this Council work and there is no one on this planet that is going to stop me from giving us a chance when it all goes to hell.

The Council is arming clans getting ready for things that could very well start this next war. You, on the other hand, are far too concerned with what another clan is doing to even worry about the enemy! To you, Silverstone is the enemy! Do you understand that at all? Does it get through that head of yours? You HATE a CLAN and have put more time and hate against another clan than against the people that started this revolution in the first place!

God I hate idealism! What makes you more right than anyone else? You say that people don't question me... I want to be questioned. It's why i'm here...to protect this Council from liars like you. You are questioning me and I am disproving your opinions as they come.

This Council, right now, is the hope of the clans. Not some half-assed idea that was conceived by one person and when suddenly no one agreed, it was us mean old Sentinels picking on Knights... and even when some Knights didn't agree, suddenly they didn't read it.

YOu have done this from the beginning. How DARE anyone disagree with you. This entire thread is because someone disagreed with you. ...and i'm the one that wants to tell people what to think. Get a grip on reality and smell the garbage you're piling up around yourself.

[Noticiero]

I'd like to volunteer for the publicity campaign for the UCN.

I have great people skills, and I greatly believe you people should replace the Council of Truth.

So, where do I sign up ?

Omni-Reform wants to help.
Omni-Tek cares.

Well, a omni offering to help the UCN, do we need more proof? I don't think so.

[Twistshot]

Whats happening is that you're arguing my argument, backpeddling in typical fashion, like anyone who is beat and can't let it go.

I find you are often fond of saying things like that along with making comments about my mental capacity Astera and quite frankly it’s getting dull. I have been saying the same thing since the UCN proposal was first presented, over and over again. That it is a system to allow the people of the Clans to decide their own fate and future.

The Council is doing the best it can with what it has. Because you can't or won't see that does not make it lesser to those who believe in it. I am a fanatic when it comes to making this Council work and there is no one on this planet that is going to stop me from giving us a chance when it all goes to hell.

So you see your self as some modern day savior of fantasy to ride out slay the evil creature and bask in the adoration of the masses? Even I have not made such a claim. Even Xaun has not made such a claim and you have accused her of everything from being the bane of the clans to being an omni pawn. The UCN is about giving the people the tools to save them selves, not cower and wait for some one to do it for them. If the clans are to have a chance when this current war escalates it is the clans that are going to have to give it to them selves Astera, not you.

The Council is arming clans getting ready for things that could very well start this next war. You, on the other hand, are far too concerned with what another clan is doing to even worry about the enemy! To you, Silverstone is the enemy! Do you understand that at all? Does it get through that head of yours? You HATE a CLAN and have put more time and hate against another clan than against the people that started this revolution in the first place!

Silverstone, Silverstone, Silverstone for you the issue is always Silverstone. The UCN is not some ploy to destroy the Sentinal’s Astera, every time I have brought them up it has been in relation to the poor job he is doing in Tir and the favoritism that the CoT gives him. What I hate is this farce that the CoT has become, claiming in one hand to simply be a forum for the free exchange of ideas while in the other hand trying to rule the clans.

God I hate idealism! What makes you more right than anyone else? You say that people don't question me... I want to be questioned. It's why i'm here...to protect this Council from liars like you. You are questioning me and I am disproving your opinions as they come.

Well, this may explain a few things about you. After all you have admitted to being a fanatic for the CoT and obviously your Idealism is that Silverstone is some kind of new age savior or perhaps god like being. What makes me more right than anyone else? I ask you the same question Astera, what makes you think that you are right? What makes you think I am wrong? The fact that you say so? As to the accusation that I am a liar, I doubt that you could recognize the truth if you sat on it. Fanatics have no concept of truth Astera and you have proclaimed your self one in your own words.

For a point of truth, you say that you want people to question you and then you berate me and curse me for doing so. Astera you have fallen to new lows.

I want to be questioned.

You are questioning me and I am disproving your opinions as they come.

In the span of moments you have proven that you don’t want to be questioned, at least not when you don’t like the questions. Give it up Astera.

This Council, right now, is the hope of the clans. Not some half-assed idea that was conceived by one person and when suddenly no one agreed, it was us mean old Sentinels picking on Knights... and even when some Knights didn't agree, suddenly they didn't read it.

The Council was at one time a “half-ass idea” the clans were once a “half-assed idea” coming to Rubi-Ka in the first place was a “half-assed” idea, and now look where those ideas have gotten us. I have never accused the Sentinels of picking on the Knights or on Aethyr or on me. I have accused you of trying to stonewall an idea Astera, or are you now saying that you are the leader of the Sentinels?

YOu have done this from the beginning. How DARE anyone disagree with you. This entire thread is because someone disagreed with you. ...and i'm the one that wants to tell people what to think. Get a grip on reality and smell the garbage you're piling up around yourself.

So when some one questions me I am to remain silent like a good little pawn and let people say what they want regardless of the misconceptions they have of what they are talking about or simply speaking outright lies? While you may have finally admitted to trying to tell people what to think you will find me made of sterner stuff.

I will not be told what to think.
I will not be told what to believe.
I will not be told who to follow.
I will not be told how to act.
I will not be told what to do.
I will be free to follow my own course regardless of who stands before me.
I will aid those who wish to walk with me.

I will be Clan.

[Twistshot]

Well, a omni offering to help the UCN, do we need more proof? I don't think so.

I think you need to have your head examined Noticiero, what better way for Omni to sabotage something than to invoke the knee-jerk reflex of the clans to hate anything that Omni thinks is a good idea. If Omni-Tek said that breathing was a good idea and something they support the first reaction many of the clans would have would to be hold their breath. Granted the example is a bit over the top however it dose easily show the point I am trying to make.

I do not know if your report about the UCN was filled with bad research, Astera’s demented views or just all out lies on your part and I do not care. I will continue with what I feel is a way to improve the clans regardless of your opinion, Astera’s opinion or Omni-Teks fears or words.

[Windguaerd]

I will not be told what to think.

People are expressing their views as you are expressing yours.

I will not be told what to believe.

People are telling you what they believe based on what they know and their own experiences.

I will not be told who to follow.

People are pointing out things which you in all likelyhood do not wish to accept probably out of loyalty to a friend, no matter the cost.

I will not be told how to act.

People are telling you how wrong your actions are.

I will not be told what to do.

People are telling you what you should do, but nobody is forcing you to do it, you make your own path, but then you must be responsable for it.

I will be free to follow my own course regardless of who stands before me.

People much older and wiser than you stand before you, will you be so foolish to step on your elders for your cause?

I will aid those who wish to walk with me.

People are not rallying for the UCN, there are no protests, there are no riots...all you have is whispers against the strong voice of the council.

I will be Clan.

People who are speaking are clan, it is your own choice to speak against other clanners. The CoT did not raise a proposal to replace itself, Aethyr Clan did and when you were not only a member but an officer in it you became partly responsable for such proposal.

I've tried my best to counsel you in private about this, and I thought you would have seen things more clearly; however it seems I was just hopeful.

I do not know if your report about the UCN was filled with bad research, Astera’s demented views or just all out lies on your part and I do not care.

I took some time, and checked everything he quoted and it all matches. His article was based on fact. It is because you do not care about the truth that you're blinded to your Lady Xaun's views, you may have left Aethyr Knights to form your own clan...but will it be really your clan?...or will it be another column of support for her own purposes? I feel your clan will 'rally' to support the UCN if it joins the CoT.

You may argue with the entire council and those who loyaly support the Council of Truth at the expense of your own reputation...however I now stand before you as a friend one last time.

End this foolish endeavour, for the next time I stand before you, it will not be as a friend, but as someone who will be between you and the council you seek to bring down into darkness.

[Astera]

I find you are often fond of saying things like that along with making comments about my mental capacity Astera and quite frankly it’s getting dull. I have been saying the same thing since the UCN proposal was first presented, over and over again. That it is a system to allow the people of the Clans to decide their own fate and future.

You are backpeddling. Deny it all you want but you are not arguing your case as much as you are attacking me. You are using half-truths and opinion as your case and "frankly" as you put it, I see right through it.

So you see your self as some modern day savior of fantasy to ride out slay the evil creature and bask in the adoration of the masses? Even I have not made such a claim. Even Xaun has not made such a claim and you have accused her of everything from being the bane of the clans to being an omni pawn. The UCN is about giving the people the tools to save them selves, not cower and wait for some one to do it for them. If the clans are to have a chance when this current war escalates it is the clans that are going to have to give it to them selves Astera, not you.

And theres the problem again. You see only what you want to. I've tried to find middle ground for everyone so the Council has a chance and the Clans have a chance. I don't want praise for my work...if I did, I certainly wouldn't be trying to work on something to benefit sniveling, unappreciative people like you. Again, this is a case of you hating the fact that you're wrong and very few support the idea.

Silverstone, Silverstone, Silverstone for you the issue is always Silverstone. The UCN is not some ploy to destroy the Sentinal’s Astera, every time I have brought them up it has been in relation to the poor job he is doing in Tir and the favoritism that the CoT gives him. What I hate is this farce that the CoT has become, claiming in one hand to simply be a forum for the free exchange of ideas while in the other hand trying to rule the clans.

See, these are the half-truths I was talking about. The CoT shows no one any favoritism. The pro-war clans happen to have the most support and you can't stand it. All of a sudden its Favoritism, not truth and definitely not fact.

Well, this may explain a few things about you. After all you have admitted to being a fanatic for the CoT and obviously your Idealism is that Silverstone is some kind of new age savior or perhaps god like being. What makes me more right than anyone else? I ask you the same question Astera, what makes you think that you are right? What makes you think I am wrong? The fact that you say so? As to the accusation that I am a liar, I doubt that you could recognize the truth if you sat on it. Fanatics have no concept of truth Astera and you have proclaimed your self one in your own words.

Theres the thing..... I don't think i'm greater than everyone else. I want to be questioned to make sure we're doing the right thing. When you come to me and spit out this gathering of lies and propaganda, I am defending against it. You are not questioning me. You are accusing. Each of your questions has been answered with FACT, not idealism, not any other thing you can come up with in that spaced out illusion world you live in. FACT...Cold, indifferent, painful.

The Council was at one time a “half-ass idea” the clans were once a “half-assed idea” coming to Rubi-Ka in the first place was a “half-assed” idea, and now look where those ideas have gotten us. I have never accused the Sentinels of picking on the Knights or on Aethyr or on me. I have accused you of trying to stonewall an idea Astera, or are you now saying that you are the leader of the Sentinels?

More accusation? Come on, when are you going to get over it?

[So when some one questions me I am to remain silent like a good little pawn and let people say what they want regardless of the misconceptions they have of what they are talking about or simply speaking outright lies? While you may have finally admitted to trying to tell people what to think you will find me made of sterner stuff.

I think you may find that most won't pose a question to you because of this very conversation. Things don't work out so you keep it up, hoping to gain a shred of credibility back.

I will not be told what to think.
I will not be told what to believe.
I will not be told who to follow.
I will not be told how to act.
I will not be told what to do.
I will be free to follow my own course regardless of who stands before me.
I will aid those who wish to walk with me.

I will be Clan.

Nice speech. Has no relevance to anything.


There are questions that still, to this day, sit unanswered about that proposal. The questions I raised were the extreme case of civil war by a vote...and the closest thing I got to an answer was "if they don't want to be a part of it, they don't have to be." Think about that a moment... Sounds the same as the Council, doesn't it?

So, I propose to you here, in public: We all know that the first order of business will be to vote Silverstone out of Tir. Let's say it passes and he laughs in your face. (most likely scenario) What then? OR... lets say this idea ever gets enough support to move beyond your worthless arguments and into something more solid. Let's say the pro war types get together and pass a vote barring/killing neuts from/in Old Athen, West Athen, Mort, Varmint Woods, Sabulum, Tir, Bliss and Avalon. What do you do? You're part of it.

The simple lie is "i'd abide by it..." When I posed this question privately I was told, "I wouldn't be the one shooting them." ...and this is where the problem is. This idea, that supposedly will bring individuals more power and you wanted it. YOu got exactly what I would most certainly be working for right out of the gate.

But what was missing in that answer is the root of the issue... telling another clan what to do. I can hear you now! "We're not telling clans what to do." Well, guess what, you already have. AND if you don't listen to the directives passed, why are you there? What is the point? Remember when I said it sounded like the Council of truth? There you go. The power the Council has is what it's member clans give it. It's not concerned with telling you what to do. It's not concerned with removing Silverstone from Tir. It is to bring the Clans together under their leaders and try to make life better for us all.

The UCN was designed, after several failed attempts, to circumnavigate the pro-war majority in the CoT. This is why it is a poor idea. Nothing has been thought about beyond some petty differences.

Given... faction causes a lot of argument. Work with people, learn that you will not get your way all the time or we can continue this exchange on the gridfeeds when i'm not the one in control of anything but paperwork. What I say has no bearing on any vote or any decision.

I question motives. I have to. I worry about my clan rather than my own feelings. I worry about winning this war against Omni-Tek. You have not proven you are capable of coming up with anything besides ways of shifting negative attention off of yourself through word twisting, opinions as facts and lying outright.

With this, I leave you to your little fantasy world. If you have trouble understanding where I get my facts from, please visit www.counciloftruth.org and view the public gridfeeds and meeting logs.

[Twistshot]

People are expressing their views as you are expressing yours.

And their views include telling me to act like a mindless automaton.

People are telling you what they believe based on what they know and their own experiences.

They can believe what they wish, this is what I believe in.

People are pointing out things which you in all likelyhood do not wish to accept probably out of loyalty to a friend, no matter the cost.

No, people are pointing out their opinions and what they believe and I believe that the UCN is something that will benefit the Clans who wish to join it.

People are telling you how wrong your actions are.

No they are telling me that they don’t like me making waves and thinking for my self. Very few have asked or commented about points they think could cause problems, or asked me what would happen if this were to happen and so forth. It has all boiled down to “It wont work, your wrong and I am right so shut up”

People are telling you what you should do, but nobody is forcing you to do it, you make your own path, but then you must be responsable for it.

I accept full responsibility for my own actions.

People much older and wiser than you stand before you, will you be so foolish to step on your elders for your cause?

Age dose not equate wisdom and wisdom dose not equate age. Now while you may think that may be the words of a young fool, they are accurate.

People are not rallying for the UCN, there are no protests, there are no riots...all you have is whispers against the strong voice of the council.

Yes, that is true, however the reason that they are only whispers now is because work has been continuing on the UCN and, as you well know because you spoke to me about it, things have been allowed to cool while we all waited to see if what happened to Xaun was an act or not and then wait for the right time to represent the UCN, my hand was forced by this news article, now work resumes in earnest.

People who are speaking are clan, it is your own choice to speak against other clanners. The CoT did not raise a proposal to replace itself, Aethyr Clan did and when you were not only a member but an officer in it you became partly responsable for such proposal.

Already Aethyr has been disassociated with the CoT as if they were never part of it? Is that how all unpopular issues will be handled? Yes Aethyr proposed the UCN but the way you state it, it sounds as if we barged in and did so and not as a part of the CoT.

I've tried my best to counsel you in private about this, and I thought you would have seen things more clearly; however it seems I was just hopeful.

Time will tell if your words to me in private were just words or if they held any meaning. Thus far I fear they were not.

I took some time, and checked everything he quoted and it all matches. His article was based on fact. It is because you do not care about the truth that you're blinded to your Lady Xaun's views, you may have left Aethyr Knights to form your own clan...but will it be really your clan?...or will it be another column of support for her own purposes? I feel your clan will 'rally' to support the UCN if it joins the CoT.

Based on fact but twisted around in order to present it in a manor that is not in holding with the spirit of the UCN idea, the best, and worst, lies are built on truth.

You may argue with the entire council and those who loyaly support the Council of Truth at the expense of your own reputation...however I now stand before you as a friend one last time.

End this foolish endeavour, for the next time I stand before you, it will not be as a friend, but as someone who will be between you and the council you seek to bring down into darkness.

Again with the assumptions that I seek to destroy the CoT. The CoT is a forum for the free exchange of ideas, why would I seek to destroy it, what I wish to see end is this claim of being a form of government that it constantly makes.
I would have valued your friendship Commander but if it was offered only as a reward for changing my beliefs then I do not want it or wish it, you will find that I do not respond well to people who want me to choose one thing over another

I will get to you tomorrow Astera, I am tired of saying almost the same thing over and over again. Im behind on work on the UCN

[Windguaerd]

Again with the assumptions that I seek to destroy the CoT. The CoT is a forum for the free exchange of ideas, why would I seek to destroy it, what I wish to see end is this claim of being a form of government that it constantly makes.
I would have valued your friendship Commander but if it was offered only as a reward for changing my beliefs then I do not want it or wish it, you will find that I do not respond well to people who want me to choose one thing over another

From everything I've seen, from the start to it's current state the UCN's primary goal is to replace the CoT, and if the representatives who form the council do not agree to it...then how else will the UCN succeed?

The few UCN supporters claim that the CoT is flawed, corrupt, that there is favoritism, etc. Yet instead of trying to work within an already established system to improve it, you work against it from within the CoT itself by exploiting the open forum for open discussion.

Did you think such treacheary would be allowed? to try and use the open exchange of ideas to try and undermine the council and push Lady Xaun's agenda with the UCN?

Of course the council would react to such vile tactics to push aside somethng which is clearly created to demolish all of their years of hard work.

The CoT only has influence over the clans in it, and those who are loyal to the CoT do respect it's decisions.

My frendship was not conditional, but am I expected to call someone a friend...when such a person is working against the best interest of the clans? as a puppet for someone else who has her own agenda to bring down the CoT?

I'm sorry, but my loyalty to the Council of Truth and the clans goes above the loyalty to one person. Perhaps one day you will understand that the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one.

I will stand between the candle and the darkness, for I am clan!

[Xaun]

Did you think such treacheary would be allowed? to try and use the open exchange of ideas to try and undermine the council and push Lady Xaun's agenda with the UCN?

As a puppet for someone else who has her own agenda to bring down the CoT?

Whoah.. lets just stop right there.. I swear I had no intentions of getting involved in this bickering I know you love it and fan the flames more after all it would seem unless "your puppet" writes about me the columns get maybe what 1-3 posts at most?

Now lets just get some things perfectly clear

#1 Gurney is not my puppet ffs...he is not even in my clan anymore.. and he left because he was unhappy with it if you must know.

#2 he has his own agenda and I might add it is far different than mine. Mine includes trying to figure out what happened to me and where I have been for two months..

I proposed an idea for the formation of a "True and democractic form of government for the clans" NOT today or ever have I wanted to see the COT meet a demise. Others hate it.. many many many others.. but I do not.

#3 It would do you, me and a horde of other clanners a great service to not put words in others mouths. I swear... I must be the most mal-quoted person born because you all speak as if you know me or have a clue what I think or say. Get a reality check, you do not, have not and will not ever be given the pleasure of such an honor based on your actions, etc..

I love how often certain ignorant people seem to think I have some anti-clan motivation. In case you did not notice.. I am the leader of one of the most active fighting clans period. So to challenge my honor or integrity because I see a future where clan superiority is unchallengable.. where people from all walks of clan-life are treated fairly and where scum like Omni-pol/Reform, the Dust Brigade, Legionaires and NLF are erradicated from this planet once and for all is just rediculous.

What I did before my untimely twist in fate was "bring an idea to the table at an open forum for debate" I asked it to be debated. I am not a politician nor law maker just a clanner who cares enough to try to start planning now so that when we defeat the mega-corp and send them packing at the end of their lease we are not faced with even worse things and for anyone to even insinuate that I was making a grab for power is just plain ignorant. I literally barred myself from ever running for the positions I suggested as part of the debate.. just so this level of malformed questioning could not take place.. but its really hard to defend yourself when your dead. It is you Windgaeurd and your puppet Noticiero who have brought this idea infront of more people than I could have imagined and the funny part is.. I don't even like what you all have done with this idea since I was gone. It was a push for clan unity.. and you bickering children have used it as a stepping stone for inter-clan hatred. I am appalled at all of you and to be honest this thread in its entirety makes me sick.

Just be glad I am the news and not the one writing it.. because I would start an investigation into how you Windy try to push "YOUR" agendas by controlling the news.. Unlike you I make the news.. not try to trick others with bogus stories that do nothing positive for the clans what-so-ever. You and your puppet have done more damage to the clans with your "Exclusives" than Omni-tek could ever dream of and if you don't believe me.. Ask Jubilex or any other Omni or Neutral. I am sure they are having themself a grande old time reading along as you damage more and more of the clans credibility with your tabloid columns passed off as fact. I have yet to see any facts in these columns just a bunch of childish redderick and silly insinuations. THere was a great deal of deliberation as well as planning that went into this "First Round Draft" and to attempt to challenge that is a foolish as I was the one who spoke to countless others seeking input and spent the time mulling over its formatting and presentation. It is FAR from perfect.. But in what reality is a first draft ever perfect?

Good day.. Commander..


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Actual fact from the real topic as I proposed it and it begun discussion within the COT itself totally disproving the concept that it was shot down.. It was debated.. However the timing of my death left the idea un-rattified as I originally intended and maybe once I get my widgets and what not re-aligned from returning to the land of the living be doing:
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Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« on: June 24, 2006, 21:10 »
The council of truth will serve in a final purpose as an interim government to oversee the transition into the United Clan Nation. Its purpose will be to ensure the accuracy and fairness in the upcoming elections and serve as an advisory branch to the newly elected officials.

Overview of the Government
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House of Leadership
1 President (player)
1 Vice President (player)
1 Secretary of State (player)

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House of Advisors
The Legacy Clans each in an advisory branch to the Leaders

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House of Representatives
Freely applied Clan leaders plus their chosen reps

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House of Commons
Equal number of reps as the House of Representatives each requiring no status with an established clan on a first come first serve basis till the quota has been reached.

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House of Leadership

The two elected leaders will run each choosing a party line.. The parties will be comprised of the 9 legacy factions of the clans.. There are no rules relating to similarly aligned leaders based on faction.. for example.. a Knight and Sentinel party member could run on the same ballot. These members will be voted into office by open votes with guidlines set into place such as minimum level requirement to be eligible to qualify for voting status.

Term of office: Open for debate but I believe 6-12 months be a suitable office term to minimize the amount of campaigning required and voting time. 2 term limit on a Presidency should be taken into effect.

Campaigning will go through 3 cycles.. Part one.. 2 weeks to pick a party line and running mate. Part two.. 2 weeks to campaign for party leaders.. Part Three voting.. 2 weeks for final campaigns followed by a vote of ballot by all clanners via a publically accessible grid site.

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House of Advisors

Each Legacy leader provides a wealth of information relating to the politics of the planet the world and future directions.. each has a particular area of expertise relating to the environment.. the people.. terraforming.. unions.. militias.. humanitarian aid.. etc.. as such they would serve as the inner circle of advisors to the two elected leaders. The members of this branch will be expected to set the standard of behaviour for all others to be high.

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House of Representatives

No voting required for the clan leaders and their representatives. Rules such as behaviour during meetings must be strictly adheared too by all members however no clan can be barred permantly without a majority vote by all of the different branches of the government. Clans have no limit to the time on their participation within this branch.

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House of Commons

Any independent clan member regardless of rank or status within an organized clan can apply for acceptance into the House of Commons. The number is equal to that of the number of reprsentatives. Members of this house will be required to adhere to strict rules of conduct else loose their position in their house. Members of this branch work in a rotating order where so long as no seats are contested ie.. less members of the commons than the House of Representatives then no terms need be applied. If a seat becomes contested.. the first in.. is the first out.. or goes based on alphabetical if two or more are recognized in a seat on the same day. This allows that the branch should never be empty and should have a constant influx of fresh views and voices.

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Government Meeting Agenda

The function of the government is suggested as follows. The President and/or Vice President will be required to meet with one house per week and then a final meeting followed by a public adressing on the last week of the month.

Week 1- House of Commons. This house will raise the issues of the common clansfolk ensuring it is heard by the leader of the clans.

Week 2- House of Representatives. This house will raise the concerns of organized clans to build alliances and formulate strategic defenses of clan bases and territories.

Week 3- House of Advisors. The Pres/V.P. will present the most prominent concerns to the Advisors and seek guidance in proper action as well as hear counter concerns and balance then set a vote for the following week.

Week 4- All houses Vote. The final talley of the vote is announced and a course of action planned by the House of Leadership and acted on by the clans as a whole incuding all types of campaigns be it military, terraforming, colonizing, research & development etc.

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Role Responsibilities

The President, will be expected to make time for each branch of the government for at least 1 hour per week for the meetings. And at least 2 hours on the last weekend of each month. For the general assembly of the houses, the voting and then a public addressing thereafter. The president will be expected to Oversee the meeting proceedings, call for votes, make decisions to take action based on the standing of the clans toward an issue, Call emergency meetings in time of crisis, handle foreign relations policy such as negotiating with ICC, Omni-tek, the Neutrals or other Hyper-corps, Make public addresses to the clans and to the media agencies and above all else.. Represent the clans to the universe as the voice there-of.


The Vice-President, will be expected to be available to handle meetings in situations where the President is unavailable and thus should be included and informed regarding all matters of state as much as the President is. This person will have full capacity to act in a situation on the behalf of the clans as the representative of the President. The Vice President will also be considered in line should any great tragedy befall the President that would incapacitate and prevent from enactment of office.


Secretary of State, will be expected to log all meetings and store for public record. The secretary of state will also handle the press-releases of the president and act as a advisor relating to things such as speeches and aiding the pres/vp with grammer etc.. the person looking for this role should be very well spoken. They will to the best of their ability add all bills to a clan declaration of Law and Policy.


Advisors, Each advisor shall be over a branch of service such as Terraforming, Intelligence, Training the Military, Overseeing Mine production, Wildlife preservation, Research and Development, Trade, Foreign Policy, etc.. based on the clans prime directive/motis operandi. The individual Representatives will look to the House of Representatives and the House of Commons for those whom are interested in aiding further their agendas and will have budgets alocated based on the "Bill of Spending" which will be passed shortly after the Houses have been formed and all officials voted in. The Advisors will meet with the House of Leadership to seek funding for projects and get the final ok to begin operations. They will also act as aids of preperation for which items they have "budgets" to allow for the accomplishment such as the people want better equipped guards in an area.. the Advisors would be expected to analyse the allocated time/funds to the necissary depts and then based on this allocation ok and begin working on it or motion for an increase in spending and operation within that sector of the government.

House of Representatives, will be expected to meet together once a month with the president and voice their concerns and ideas which will then be passed on to vote at the end of the month if enough support exists within this house to move it to the floor. They will also be expected to show up at the general assembly if they can make it to vote on all bills attempting to be passed. The goals and ideals of organized clan leaders will be the motives that fuel this branch of the government.

House of Commons, will be expected to meet together once a month with the president and voice their concerns and ideas which will then be passed on to vote at the end of the month if enough support exists within this house to move it to the floor. They will also be expected to show up at the general assembly if they can make it to vote on all bills attempting to be passed. The goals and ideals of general clansfolk and will be more focused on personal freedoms than rights of organized clans.

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[Xaun]

Xaun
Gridforum Activist

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Lady "Xaun" Miyamoto


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Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2006, 21:10 »
I expect this will need ratification.. but it is now open for discussion.
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steelyglint
Council members (Atlantean)
Gridforum Trainee

Posts: 22


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Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2006, 12:36 »
An interesting set up that you have proposed here, but, there are flaws in the process. it appears to be an overly complicated system. that is also open to abuse. it would be quite easy for the house of leadership to ignore the house of advisors and the 2 lower houses, and push their own agenda through instead. this would lead to a quasi dictatorship. the road to hell is paved with good intentions, can you garuntee that the people acting at the top would not do this?

A much simpler and probably more effective form of government would be based apon a westminster style parliment. a lower house and an upper house. The lower house to introduce the bills with all factions able to put forward a bill for discussion, we could have a parlimentry elected primeminister that has limited powers to prevent abuse, a parlimentry elected press officer for takeing minuties and writeing up press releases and parlimentry speaker to keep control of the meetings. Once a bill has passed the lower house, it goes to the upper house for debate and amendments and is either rejected or accepted, the bill passes back to the lower house for general release for the public. Legacy clan leaders can take turn at swapping between the houses and adviseing the members.

Upper house and lower house members would consist of members put forward by their clans, much like we already do, but they do get to choose which house of parliment they can participate in. If things need to be done/actioned/investigated, we do what we do now and appoint a commititte that reports back to the parliment. Each committie to be headed by a leagacy leader with the relevant experience

As you can see an extremely basic outline, but one i feel would have much better checks and balances and would be a harder system to abuse. Also it elimenates the need for "campaigning" where the people with the prettiest speach's and falsest promises could win.

Steelyglint

Captain of The Black Company
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Hermiaa
Gridforum Trainee

Posts: 18




Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2006, 17:08 »
Think I agree with Steely for the most part, though I can't think why Legacy leaders shouldn't stand for election as well. Automatic leadership positions in a governement that is supposedly democratic in nature does tend to run counter to the whole idea. Sure they're respected leaders and will almost certainly be elected, but they should still have to run like everyone else, otherwise we're setting ourselves a very easily abused precedent.
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Xaun
Gridforum Activist

Posts: 157


Lady "Xaun" Miyamoto


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Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2006, 19:57 »
Thank you for your input both of you. I believe your suggestions are quite good indeed. I will work this into a rattification and re-submit it soon. As I said when I posted this.. Changes do not happen over night.. I wish this to be debated and the path for the clans to evolve into a formal society with a real government to be paved.

As far as the reason for not putting the Legacy Clans up for leadership is more of a.. "they are the spirit of the clans through history and should define the party lines. I also believe their contributions over the ages have earned them such honors."

[Also the orginal council of truth was done this way where the ARKs had all the voice and member clans none.. The Council of Aries overthrew that council and formed the one we have now which is much more by the players for the players but still flawed. The reason I suggest that they be apointed to certain offices is that the ARKs are the "go-between" for the players and Funcom. As such having the players suggesting things and the leader declaring them without any funcom OK to it is futile.. By passing all elements by these advisors the wording of public addresses can be OK'd prior to release and thus when something is voted.. it is done!

My proposal is geared to expand apon the current system we have in an effort to streamline it further and keep players as active in the future of the Clans as possible. By holding elections and letting a player run in it, it is sure to get "more attention/involvement" from the people. Additionally, it is suggested to use the principal of party lines based on the legacy factions for those going to hold office. This should provide a simple idea to the persons voting of how a canidate stands on an issue based on what party line they run in. It also gives a forum for Non-Organized clan members to participate in the RP center of the Clans, which the current system does not really. At present someone must both join a clan and be selected by the leader to be allowed to participate in the CoT.

The proposal is supposed to be more like a parliment in process where things are passed until it reaches the top and then acted on. I like the addition of the speakers of each parliment as that also will allow for the streamlining of the overall process. The problem I see with the CoT is that it is not claiming to be nor recognized as the Government of the Clans. That politically cripples it.. Militarily freezes it.. and well forget about other areas like terraforming etc.. ]
« Last Edit: June 26, 2006, 20:29 by Xaun » Logged

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Kotts
Gridforum Contributor

Posts: 53





Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2006, 20:48 »
Well right now this looks like it's giveing unconditional power to just a few people. Like a monarchy or somethin'

Problems I see with it...
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Whom ever takes the big chair will eventually steer the clans for their own personal gain. For thousands and thousands of years it's happened over and over. each leader saying that they would never dream of doing something like that, but eventually, they do.

Right now the Legacy clan have pretty much taken the backseat as far as the council goes. And honestly I think we could just sharpen up what we have now. A hand full of speakers to retain control of the meeting. also when we have more then one they can rotate per meeting to keep the bias to certain issues to a low, and even fill in if another can't make it.

More or less, yeah, we need to think about becomeing more of a focused form of government. But when the clans will prolly never be seen as a legit governing body, or at least untill Omni's lease is up. We can still set the ground work.

[Xaun]

Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2006, 21:19 »
The ability to impeach a leader is always present. If the leader does not fullfill their duties the houses would vote no confidence and move on to a new leader. So long records are always kept of whom came in what position there should never run out of individuals to assume the roll if neglicance is the case. It does not by any means give anyone absolute power. It does however give the clans a spokesperson with whom can be recognized and negotiated with to ensure clan properity. Personal agendas are what motivate each individual in life. It is when those personal agendas align with a view we share that we cast our vote for them... Hidden agendas are things that people do not wish others to know and may be in contrary to their public agenda. This however is where the role and responsibility of the Houses as a whole to be mindful of and take action in.
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Hermiaa
Gridforum Trainee

Posts: 18




Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2006, 23:50 »
Gotta dissect it later and see how it can be really abused... wording can be very important if it creates loopholes and vague language that can be exploited by the unscrupulous.

[I completely understand the reason they have to be included, and it's the only way it's gonna work, but if we vote the grave so to speak and give all those guards and various clan npc's a vote for them, we can at least give it an illusion of them being democratically elected to the posts instead of building in a non-democratic form that could be a serious PR disaster for clan leadership. Think of the field day people like Jubilex Prime could have with that, and use it to ground our faces in the dirt with.]
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Astera
Clerical staff
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Posts: 489




Re: Proposal for The United Clan Nation
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2006, 00:02 »
Quote
My proposal is geared to expand apon the current system we have in an effort to streamline it further and keep players as active in the future of the Clans as possible. By holding elections and letting a player run in it, it is sure to get "more attention/involvement" from the people. Additionally, it is suggested to use the principal of party lines based on the legacy factions for those going to hold office. This should provide a simple idea to the persons voting of how a canidate stands on an issue based on what party line they run in. It also gives a forum for Non-Organized clan members to participate in the RP center of the Clans, which the current system does not really. At present someone must both join a clan and be selected by the leader to be allowed to participate in the CoT.

I have a few questions...

Firstly, what is your timeline for changing everything?

Secondly, We can barely get 10 clans to show up once a month, how do you expect them to participate, especially once a week and 2 hours on the last weekend of every month?

Third, how can you not influence votes with the system if there is a vote by the people? ((meaning, what is to stop me from making a few froob accounts and sending in several unique votes, not including alts that I can certainly vote with, should I want something to go a certain way.))

It is my understanding that the current system is in place because you cannot control things like the items mentioned above. One clan, one vote. You follow a Clan Leader, if you don't like the way they're voting, leave or try to change your clan.

I'm not trying to knock your idea down but theres barely any way to control vote stacking as it is, nor is there much of a way to prove/stop metagaming but this, to me, obviously isn't the answer.

...and maybe i'm way off the mark here but it seems to me that its how it can be interpreted.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2006, 00:54 by Astera » Logged

================================================== ======================

For the full log relating to what actually happened go here

[Windguaerd]

Everything seems to be "Uh...no I didn't say that" "I was misquoted" "I didn't mean it that way" "It was a draft" "Well that is changed"...yet...

It is time for the rise of the United Clan Nation.. United we Stand.. Divided we Stall..

So...you say in time the UCN may be in place...yet "it is time for the rise...", how amusing that your own signature in these forums reveal things so clearly. You do not call for a rise of anything if it's intended to be so down the road, you call for a rise at the moment you do it. You want the UCN right now, maybe you are not aware of it consciously, but maybe subconsciously you do know the truth.

I'm no longer a clan leader, yet I will keep my eye on those who may be a threat to the council. You have nothing to worry about, if you are no such threat.

[Xaun]

Everything seems to be "Uh...no I didn't say that" "I was misquoted" "I didn't mean it that way" "It was a draft" "Well that is changed"...yet...

So...you say in time the UCN may be in place...yet "it is time for the rise...", how amusing that your own signature in these forums reveal things so clearly. You do not call for a rise of anything if it's intended to be so down the road, you call for a rise at the moment you do it. You want the UCN right now, maybe you are not aware of it consciously, but maybe subconsciously you do know the truth.

I'm no longer a clan leader, yet I will keep my eye on those who may be a threat to the council. You have nothing to worry about, if you are no such threat.

I think I quoted myself pretty darn accurately. As a matter of fact.. Exactly as it was stated and portraited in all mannors via any forum. Since you want to put it that way.. You can quote me even further if you like.. here allow me..

Quote #1 as of the exact posting itself via its title:

"Proposal"

Quote #2:

"I expect this will need ratification.. but it is now open for discussion."

Shall I continue? I mean you cannot argue hard facts sir no matter how much you want to try to paint it in any light you attempt to.

And your right. It is the time for the rise of a "Unified Nation of the Clans" and if you stand against that idea regardless of its name.. formatting or other.. then I must truely question your motivations. I am in no sort of delusional state regardless of my time spent in the source to think it will happen over night or maybe even in my lifetime. But it is something that "Must" be debated now and planned for the future or else we will not be any better than OT when they are gone. You know it. I know it. The clans know it. Neutrals know it and Omni-Tek counts on it.. I find it rather interesting in how some things I see more clearly than I ever could have imagined and seeing straight through you is one of them. I find your words hollow and amusing Sir. That is for sure. But... good luck with your witch hunt..

I am sure you could accomplish alot more by trying to fight OT.. but I guess that road is to diffucult for you. Much easier to sling mud at a fellow clan leader trying to make a difference and life better for the clans. Helluva lot easier way for your puppet to get good reviews.

Its because of people like you that OT is still even on this planet. It has been a long time since your family has done anything significant for the good of the clans. I pray your successor has the guts and conviction to do so where you have so miserably failed. But... I digress.. for now..

[Xaun]

Oh and if you want to do some internal investigations.. why not focus on why a large clan Equilibrium were sabotaged by an omni spy and lost all of their notum mines in a single day.. To me that raises alot more concerns than anything you have ever written about... But wait... it has nothing to do with me.. nevermind..

[tsunami303]

Clan's need to allways over see what CoT does in every aspect other wise, Cot is just a social party and nothing gets done.

[Towerblock]

Ahh the simple pleasures of being Neutral. Picking flowers in the meadows, eating Borealis fried chirop, listening to Nyadach on the bongo drums...

And double pentration from both sides of the line, sometimes at the same time. Ahh yes! Its good to be neutral!

[Windguaerd]

And your right. It is the time for the rise of a "Unified Nation of the Clans" and if you stand against that idea regardless of its name.. formatting or other.. then I must truely question your motivations.

You call for the rise of a body of goverment in the middle of a war, unless the Notum Wars have ended and nobody notified me of it. How questionable it to 'propose' a complete change to the way the Council of Truth operates...it is renamed, reorganized, tiers of positions added which makes it easier for any individual or group to corrupt or influence.

Sure I'd love to see a clan governing body, but I think the current CoT has done an excellent job. The CoT used to be the official governing body of the clans, and it may be once again. However with separatists such as yourself trying to undermine the CoT to replace it, that is the correct word isn't it? not "transition", but replacement.

From a CoT Clerk this is what the CoT has accomplished:

Investigations:

• Tempus Coma
• Ross Assasination
• Notum Dust
• **On-Going Investigation: Classified**

Operations:

• **Classified**
• Crippled the Dust Brigade by killing one of their newly arrived Generals
• Wiped out Tempus Coma in an invasion of their lair in Elysium

General:

• Added Credits to the Sentinels and Vanguard so Clans would have a chance to buy land from the ICC
• Billboard Campaign
• Arming Citizens and **Classified**
• Sent a representative to the Newland Council to have a presence there
• Officially recognized Neutrality - A first for the Clans
• Invited the CEO of OTRK to sit down and have talks with us (ignored)
• Continued support of the Unionist liberation of 4 Holes
• **On-Going Work: Classified**
• Donated in excess of 200 weapons to the Sentinels

You act as if the CoT had done you a great wrong, as if the council has done nothing. You probably have no idea how hard it was to reform the CoT even with the support of Radiman since you were not here at the time. Through rallies and meetings clan leaders and supporters worked hard to revive the council.

Your UCN has not taken off in the 5 months since you announced it in the halls of the Tower of Truth. Where are the rallies? where are the meetings with the public? where is the support of the Legacy Clans?

Lord Galahad which you claim to be loyal to, leads the Knights of Avalon...a LEGACY CLAN. "The Legacy Clans each in an advisory branch"....has Lord Galahad given his official support of this? has any Legacy Clan done so?

I am in no sort of delusional state regardless of my time spent in the source to think it will happen over night or maybe even in my lifetime. But it is something that "Must" be debated now and planned for the future or else we will not be any better than OT when they are gone. You know it. I know it. The clans know it. Neutrals know it and Omni-Tek counts on it.. I find it rather interesting in how some things I see more clearly than I ever could have imagined and seeing straight through you is one of them. I find your words hollow and amusing Sir. That is for sure. But... good luck with your witch hunt..

If you know it may not happen in this lifetime, why do you push so hard something that has been discussed, debated and NOT accepted by the council?

You're thinking in a time when we're at peace and Rubi-Ka is free, which of course may not happen in this or the next century even at the end of the lease of RK by OT if you want to see the official legalities of the situation.

I know forming a goverment once the planet is independent is a must, anyone with sense knows it. But are we any closer to that goal right now? no. We're at war, we should work on boosting our defenses, developing technology, dealing with threats to the clans (not just Omni-Tek but at home as well) and raising the morale of our people.

Do you even respect the CoT and their representatives? All that you say is "UCN, UCN, UCN" over and over and over as if it was a mantra that will hypnotize the council members and get them to support you. It has not worked in 5 months, could you please do something more constructive for the clans?

If you see straight through me, I think you should have your eyes checked, my alien armor is quite thick and my loyalty to the clans and the Council of Truth strong enough to handle your stare.

As for witch hunting. I am more likely to go hunt for Pumpkinheads rather than hunt you, unless you're a threat to the council as I have stated before, that is the only thing which you should worry about.

Are you a threat to the CoT?

If the answer is no, then we have no problem.

I am sure you could accomplish alot more by trying to fight OT.. but I guess that road is to diffucult for you.

I've walked that road far longer than you Lady Xaun, and the price I paid for it was my father's life. A high price for anyone, but I am my father's son and I would gladly give everything I am, everything I own and even my own life if need be for the clans.

I've taken bullets from omnis and terrorists, I've been kidnapped and tortured, assasinated and more...horrible things I do not wish on my enemies. Yet somehow I've made it through and I am here, with my beliefs of an independent Rubi-Ka still strong.

Much easier to sling mud at a fellow clan leader trying to make a difference and life better for the clans. Helluva lot easier way for your puppet to get good reviews.

Sorry but you made the mud yourself in your interview with Noticiero, you should've been more careful. Mind you at the beggining I was not thrilled he published it, but I now know that it was not made up as you claim.

"trying to make a difference and life better for the clans", please spare me the speech you're giving your supporters. We're all trying to do that, for years.

Its because of people like you that OT is still even on this planet.

Oh, so now you blame me, a loyal CoT supporter of being a traitor? is that the implication?

So, because of loyal clanners who fight for independence that OT is here, not because they have well defended cities, not because they control a space station in orbit around the planet, not because they have the elite Unicorn Company on world or because they hold HALF of the planet in their control...no...it is clannes like ME...that have fought the omnis for years that they stay.

Sure, blame me for the omnis! I'm sure you'll find enough people laughing to start your own comedy club.

It has been a long time since your family has done anything significant for the good of the clans. I pray your successor has the guts and conviction to do so where you have so miserably failed. But... I digress.. for now..

Oh really?...hmm, let's see what has my clan done this year....

March 11

Case "A New Threat" focused on the Legion begins. Case "In Search of a Smuggler" begins at the request of a member of Whisper's Edge Clan.

March 15

Mercury Dragons returns formally as a Special Operations unit. Recruiting re-established.

April 16

Case "In Search of a Smuggler" is completed and closed. Case "In Good Faith" begins.

April 26

Case "In Good Faith" is completed and closed.

May 11

Mercury Dragons Clan builds their new city in Newland Desert closer to omni territory to continue deep covert operations.

May 30

Recon reports from MD operatives allow the accurate assesment of omni personnel and their positions after the Borealis occupation. The information is shared with neutral parties from Newland City and other clans.

June 3

Mercury Dragons provides a security detail during the Council of Truth Emergency Meeting.

June 4

Standing orders are issued by Commander Windguaerd to avoid Borealis as much as possible, if attacked to take evasive action and evac at once. This is in support of the CoT Official Statement regarding Borealis and neutrality.

June 14

Strange things happening in Old Athen are reported by Mercury Dragons. Some hear "The time has come for change, the time has come for your destruction." Comm interference and unusual weather patterns take place at the same time the voice is heard.

June 23

MDSO operatives observe General Hekkat (from the NLC Militai) and NLC Defense Minister Boltgun meet in public in front of Neuter 'r us.

July 23

Progress Report on case "A New Threat" Legion Investigation is given by General Sinjinsmile, a copy is sent to the CoT.

August 4

Case "Missing Agent" begins.

August 12

Increasing operations leads Commander Windguaerd to sell the small city in Newland Desert to aquire a large city in Central Artery Valley even closer to omni territory.

August 23

Standing orders are issued by Commander Windguaerd, the information is classified.

September 2

Masked Commandos lead by Lord Marshal "Maelfus" attack Old Athen, Mercury Dragons join in the defense of the clan city. They are defeated and their leader escapes through the grid.

September 24

5th year anniversary is celebrated with a Parade in Old Athen, a Yalmaha Air Show in West Athen and a Party in Reets Retreat.

Commander Windguaerd officially retires as leader of MD - Special Ops. Leadership is given to Jonathan "Windkeeper" Wagner. Changes which had been planned for months with the help of feedback from dragons go into effect. The clan governing system changes to feudalism. The clan changes name from MD - Special Ops to Knights of the Mercury Dragon; Lord Windkeeper and the new Knights begin a new chapter in the history of the clan.

You can check my clan's Holo Library (classified info not displayed) if you wish to see how much MD has done for the clans over time.

But wait, besides being a traitor (that is what you're appear to be hinting at) I have no guts and conviction and I miserably failed as a leader of my clan....yet I helped in the reformation of the CoT and was part of the Clerical Staff (something I'm honored and proud to have done), I've fought Omni-Tek, Cyborgs, Dust Brigade, Mutants, Criminals, the vile Unredeemed and other threats to the clans...not enough in your eyes?

Oh wait a moment.... who are you? why are you here? perhaps those are questions you should ask yourself Lady Xaun.

I know who I am, and why I am here. Your description of me and my clan are distorded to say the least but I feel you're misguided.

I strongly suggest you seek Lord Galahad's personal counsel, I had the priviledge of doing so 3 times since the shadowlands opened, and it brought me much wisdom. Hearing his words and interpreted correctly it could be of much value to you...before your zealot ways go too far.

May the light of the Divine shine upon you Lady Xaun, I feel that perhaps you need light in your life.

[Senggum]

I strongly suggest you seek Lord Galahad's personal counsel, I had the priviledge of doing so 3 times since the shadowlands opened, and it brought me much wisdom. Hearing his words and interpreted correctly it could be of much value to you...before your zealot ways go too far.

What is "interpreted correctly"? The way you interpreted or the way someone else did? Seriously interpretation is just that taking someones words and find what you feel is right from them no 2 people will ever come up with the same interpretation will they? Just like no 2 people will be able come to the same conclusion on this proposed UCN ya/nay is very grey without reasoning but words always will be interpreted by the one reading them so take what you will from anything anyone says just because you think your right does not mean you truely are.

[Windguaerd]

What is "interpreted correctly"? The way you interpreted or the way someone else did? Seriously interpretation is just that taking someones words and find what you feel is right from them no 2 people will ever come up with the same interpretation will they? Just like no 2 people will be able come to the same conclusion on this proposed UCN ya/nay is very grey without reasoning but words always will be interpreted by the one reading them so take what you will from anything anyone says just because you think your right does not mean you truely are.

Speak with Lord Galahad about your personal problems, and then when he speaks you may understand what I mean.

[Senggum]

Speak with Lord Galahad about your personal problems, and then when he speaks you may understand what I mean.

You mean I would understand what Galahad means cause inorder for me to uderstand what you mean I would have to talk with you would I not? Once again its all about interpretation. If I was to talk to Sir Galahad and he was not 100% clear and precise with his words leaving no room for debate then and only then could I understand what you mean, but then again thats not very likely now is it? Cause Galahad is not a machine there for he will always leave room for intrpretation in his words. Just like Xaun did by stating that it was a proposal up for debate.

My personal problems? Are you a doctor.... thought you were an agent maybe you have spent one too many time pretending to be people your not and have lost your mind but, I have 0 personal problems atm. Have a few non-personal but, those are of no real importance. If they were I wouldn't be here debating interpretation/misinterpretation with you now would I?