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Thread: Land Control: Wasn't Promised

  1. #1

    Land Control: Wasn't Promised

    Just read the subject...land control was never promised, it was in the 'envisioned' section. Something that was possible to be added in later. Funcom had never promised that this was going to be in the game, nor in a patch, nor free.

    Most people have been able to get away with "this was promised at launch" but this time it simply is not true. There is a common misconception about this, as I have seen it stated across several threads, and I feel this needs to be cleared up.



    Also, from my understanding, it will not be necessary to buy the booster to defend your land, so really only one person per org would need to get the pack to participate in the land control system. Unless the benefits of having these towers only apply to people who have the expansion, then people wont have to feel useless to their org if they don't have the booster.



    All in all, I think this booster will make for some interesting PK, and the 'improved graphics and sound' would make it worth the money, as long as it does not cost over $20. I expect the price to be $10-15. (Those of you complaining about the pre-order price on sites like EB, etc, will probably see that price reduced, as I would not expect to pay $25 for a 'booster' that does not add nearly as much as a normal game expansion. Pre-order prices on most websites are just their own stab in the dark, like the players on these boards.)

  2. #2

    Unhappy hello?

    anyone there?

    The envisioned section used to read something like: here are things we've promised to get into the game eventually.

    Of course, FC revised and removed that statement along with lots of promised features, like the ability to change dimensions and the ability to change professions (full reset when changing, once per title-level was the speculation).

    But I don't think that's the point of a lot of the flames.

    I think the frustration is that the game is being driven by PVP when only a small minority do PVP (burst nerf, 10k dmg cap, bracer nerf, stun nerf, range nerf (sorta), just to name a few).

    I don't know why FC leaves experience and levels in the game. I mean, for truely fair PVP, make us all level 200. (sarcasm)

    I guess there isn't much point to this response that I'm typing. Probably b/c there wasn't much point to your post. Who cares what was promised...people are upset about that FC is both delivering and not delivering.

  3. #3

    Re: hello?

    Originally posted by Abunari
    The envisioned section used to read something like: here are things we've promised to get into the game eventually.

    Of course, FC revised and removed that statement along with lots of promised features
    Well, actually we can use The Internet Archive to go back and take a look at the old site

    If you click here, you'll see a copy of the 'In Production' section of the website as archived in November 2001. Sadly the archive doesn't go deeper than one level down in the site, but we can still see how the 'Envisioned' and 'In Progress' sections of the site were labelled:

    "Envisioned: Thoughts and ideas the live team has regarding additions or changes to the game."

    "In Progress: Items that have been approved (from Envisioned) will be moved, based on your feedback and the goals of the live team."

    IMHO that doesn't quite sound like 'here are things we've promised to get into the game eventually.'

  4. #4
    Read the following, it mentions about the <Envisioned > section: "These aren't new ideas; these are the promises we made to the players over the course of the development cycle that we intend to keep. "

    You can view it at this http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...articles/1800L



    During the development cycle of a massive multiplayer online game, sometimes sacrifices need to be made. Promises are made with the best of intentions, but reality often times dictates that those promises cannot be kept. That's not to say the promises were necessarily unrealistic, just a bit eager.

    What we've done, here at Funcom, was to go through every promise we've ever made in print, through fan sites, interviews, and dev chats, then sat down and discussed each and every single one of them; which ones we were able to meet, which ones were yet unrealised, those we'd be able to complete in a timely fashion, and finally those that were out of the current scope of things.

    As you've seen in the update to our Envisioned and In Progress sections before the holidays, we published the list of items from our discussions that were currently in development, and those that wed begin working on shortly. Some players voiced concerns regarding the additions to the In Progress and Envisioned sections as not necessarily being "new," and they were absolutely correct. These aren't new ideas; these are the promises we made to the players over the course of the development cycle that we intend to keep.
    What they did is take a feature that was promised, modify and expand their idea and will now sell it to us!
    Leaving the original concept of Clan/omni wars for territory in favor of Guild wars.

    So in essence, this was promised, agreed, not in the same format, but don t fool yourselfs, it was promised.
    Last edited by andertec; Aug 19th, 2002 at 18:50:01.

  5. #5

    Cool

    Originally posted by andertec
    So in essence, this was promised, agreed, not in the same format, but don t fool yourselfs, it was promised.
    Nice references.


    So to complete the picture, where does it say free? And which old webpage is land control posted on? Not on the one listed above in this thread.

    May as well make your case watertight, no?

    Cheers,
    Martek

  6. #6
    Unfortunatly, as you can see if you visited the link, the link to then envision section no longuer leads to that page, but for proof that taking over and out post and having the guards change side, just read the dev chat, gaute mentions they had promised it.

    As far as being free, that is not the question, this was promised prior to the game being realease as quoted, which means it was suppose make the game realease. Therefor, missing features from the software are things that are paid for that needs to be fixed.

    A MMORPG is a game that you involve yourself in for a long time, usually, it is the main game you play, in some cases the only game you play. When you played MMORPG before and you are shopping for a new game, you try to find out as much as possible from it and certain things make the scale tip towards that product.

    AO promised a number of features that were delivered, but alot of them are still not delivered 13 months in production. When you like the game and know how the MMORPG market is, you are willing to wait and be patient with the company until they deliver the features. I imagine FC spend a big part of their patch budget on fixing the bugs instead of finishing missing features and providing us content.

    We should not be held responsible for the cost of them fixing bugs that should of been fixed before launch. Bugs will always exist, but not to the extent they were when AO launched.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Martek-SLAG
    Nice references.


    So to complete the picture, where does it say free? And which old webpage is land control posted on? Not on the one listed above in this thread.

    May as well make your case watertight, no?

    Cheers,
    Martek
    Who ever said anything about FREE?!

    I'm paying my monthly subscription fee (at least for now). That means I subscribe to the product. I have a bit of a problem paying extra for something that I already subscribe to.
    Enock - Level 105 Clan MP, Atlantean
    Zackarias - Level 42 Clan Advent, Atlantean
    Enock - Level 6 Clan MP, Testlive

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Zacharius


    Who ever said anything about FREE?!

    I'm paying my monthly subscription fee (at least for now). That means I subscribe to the product. I have a bit of a problem paying extra for something that I already subscribe to.
    You subscribe to the game. You subscribe to server maintenance. You subscribe to timely bug fixes. You don't subscribe to new content. Frankly, if FC decides that we deserve to get some new content for free, be happy. Because it damn well IS their right to charge for it.

    You may go away now.

  9. #9
    Shub, you might want to inform yourself before you post things like this so you don t look like a fool to all those that followed the beta and launch, word for word!

    If you ever played other MMORPG, you would know it is a requirement in the industry.

    Perhaps you should do some research and come up with some refs to proove your point!



    You subscribe to the game. You subscribe to server maintenance. You subscribe to timely bug fixes. You don't subscribe to new content. Frankly, if FC decides that we deserve to get some new content for free, be happy. Because it damn well IS their right to charge for it.

    You may go away now.

  10. #10
    Originally posted by andertec
    Shub, you might want to inform yourself before you post things like this so you don t look like a fool to all those that followed the beta and launch, word for word!
    Regardless of what FC may have said, and what is expected from an MMORPG maker, you pay to play their game. EVERYTHING else is gravy, and if they charge money for it you can do two things:
    1. Suck it up
    2. Complain and then suck it up

    Perhaps you should do some research and come up with some refs to proove your point!
    Right back atcha, big boy.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Shub
    You subscribe to timely bug fixes. You may go away now.
    huh? when was the last timely bug fix?

  12. #12
    To all posting in this forum

    Research in Progress do not disturb!

    Huge post analytical and 100% fact coming. Hopefully this post will satisfy all sides of this debate to come.
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  13. #13
    From the EULA...

    2. To play the Game, you must (a) possess an ANARCHY ONLINE game CD-ROM (the "CD-ROM"), which includes software required for the Game (the "Software") (such CD-ROM may be an original or copy thereof); (b) have a fully paid account; and (c) have an Internet connection (which we do not provide) to access your Account. In addition to any fees described herein, you are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those we are not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, service and other costs you incur to access your Account. Neither this Agreement nor your Account entitles you to any subsequent releases of the Software, nor to any expansion packs or similar ancillary products. You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement.
    So I retract my ealier statement regarding what I feel is included in my subscription. By clicking AGREE each time I play, I must acknowledge that Funcom has made no actual legal promise to provide me with any expansion, boosters, or even patches.

    I guess it comes down to... when the booster comes out, if you feel it is worth the money, pay it. Otherwise, don't and be satisfied with your choice.
    Enock - Level 105 Clan MP, Atlantean
    Zackarias - Level 42 Clan Advent, Atlantean
    Enock - Level 6 Clan MP, Testlive

  14. #14
    Originally posted by andertec
    Read the following, it mentions about the <Envisioned > section: "These aren't new ideas; these are the promises we made to the players over the course of the development cycle that we intend to keep. "

    You can view it at this http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...articles/1800L




    What they did is take a feature that was promised, modify and expand their idea and will now sell it to us!
    Leaving the original concept of Clan/omni wars for territory in favor of Guild wars.

    So in essence, this was promised, agreed, not in the same format, but don t fool yourselfs, it was promised.


    Ander drops the BOMB! . Looks like they were promises, even that they admitted they couldn't keep!
    Aubrey "Biranccu" McChristion - Clan Martial Artist.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Zacharius
    From the EULA...



    So I retract my ealier statement regarding what I feel is included in my subscription. By clicking AGREE each time I play, I must acknowledge that Funcom has made no actual legal promise to provide me with any expansion, boosters, or even patches.

    I guess it comes down to... when the booster comes out, if you feel it is worth the money, pay it. Otherwise, don't and be satisfied with your choice.
    Exactly. Nice one, by the way; that's the best ammo I've seen yet.
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  16. #16
    Originally posted by LNS0388




    Ander drops the BOMB! . Looks like they were promises, even that they admitted they couldn't keep!
    We cannot verify that what he mentioned in that article contained the outpost control idea that this new land control pertains to. Yes, it was stated AT THAT TIME was old ideas that were being implemented but we do not know if Outpost control was included in on that article so the whole argument is moot unless someone can come up with a link pinpointing that article in relation to the outpost control idea.

    Any takers?
    Wizard's First Rule, people are stupid.
    Wizard's Eigth Rule- Deserve Victory. -Terry Goodkind / Author

    My 100th post!

    I Am A: Chaotic Good Elf Ranger
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    What Cyborg are you?

  17. #17

    darn too big

    Well seeing as how Microsoft word is saying my essay is 3 pages in length I will start a new thread with my evidence collected in this forum. Sorry but I feel that a response of this size needs its own thread.

    I believe I will entitle it: My take on the Booster pack with Pudding
    Wizard's First Rule, people are stupid.
    Wizard's Eigth Rule- Deserve Victory. -Terry Goodkind / Author

    My 100th post!

    I Am A: Chaotic Good Elf Ranger
    Find outWhat D&D Character Are You?

    S.H.Y.E.N.I.A.: Synthetic Hydraulic Youth Engineered for Nocturnal Infiltration and Assassination
    What Cyborg are you?

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