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Thread: Paying for Patches?

  1. #21

    Angry NO WAY!!!

    I think this booster pack is just a way for FC to drain us for more cash.

    And they are doing this by makeing us Pay for content that was promissed in the Original game!!!

    I am not willing to pay Eny more for AO then i am now. Why should i?

    I have no reason to trust FC enymore. I could imagen my self bying booster pack, or shadowlands, and finding out that there is missing just as much as there is in the Original game!
    Content, bugs ect. (witch FC stateing they will patch it in later)
    How would that make me feel? Wery wery bad!!!

    I am 1 u will never se in booster or shaddowlands!
    Next thing i will pay for is SWG, in the hopes they can keep up to what they promiss.
    OT Soldier: Sarv
    My little CH ho: Zitrix

  2. #22
    IMHO I'm willing to pay for new content, i.e. expansion packs but this doesn't count as new content, its just fixing the PvP system.

    As it stands right now, there is no reason to PvP, the system is botched where the actual "combat" classes are at a disadvantage. There two places where it can happen and no-one ever needs to go there.

    I would consider shadowlands genuine new content, and might consider buying it. This booster pack is just fixing a broken system, ie a patch, and I will not pay for it.

    ACCOUNT CANCELLED
    GAME DELETED

    send a tell to alexion in SWG when it comes out.

  3. #23
    Right on Sarv. It's amazing how those that defend Funcom in every possible way have such a rigid outlook on life. If you don't like it, leave! Heh. What fun. :P

    First off, I have no problem with paying for things. A couple bucks here and there aren't going to kill me. But the trend that Funcom is starting disturbs me. Those things SHOULD have been a patch. Or rather, several patches. Making things up and pulling it out of your ass while using fancy wording about how this isn't the exact same thing promised to be in at release is...bull? Making us pay for two expansions within months...is bull? Yes, expansions are always voluntary. But who wants to bother playing a game that's not up to par? What percentage of eq players do you really think are still playing only the very first game? :P Ah well, the idiocy of mankind has long failed to disturb me and now merely fills me with much amusement.

    Ragnar in his journal seems quite excited about the concept of booster packs. He believes that they are they way of the future for online gaming. Does he, and Funcom, really think they're going to gain and maintaing a sizeable playerbase if booster packs become the norm? Oh well, I can't bash Ragnar too much. He is too enthusiastic and naive for me to hate. :P

    So can we get an official reply on what the criteria is for booster packs? Will we start seeing booster packs for pet pathing for instance? Since this isn't fixed since development, this too must be requiring massive man hours to fix. So I can perfectly understand why I'd have to pay extra for that as well. Oh, can I get a booster pack for weapon inits too? And...and...will I have to pay a booster for you to remove the lend line of nanos from MAs, SINCE THEY'RE NOT MA NANOS AND WERE SUPPOSE TO BE REMOVED IN BETA ACCORDING TO YOU? (Not excluding the fact that it took over half a year of commercial release for you to even notice they were still there.) Heh. Funcom, I seriously wonder what your working days are really like.

  4. #24
    <<I really don't think you are aware of how much running a company costs, that is peanuts. >>


    I do run a business and 1.8 million is not peanuts.


    <<Once you loose your tax, payment to ISP's, general bill's, wages. >>



    1. You pay only pay tax on your PROFIT.
    2. The cost of bandwidth has dropped dramatically.
    3. Unless something breaks the general bills are not an issue.
    4. Wages? None of our programmers make more than $50k per year. 1.8 million buys a heck of a lot of 50k per year programmers.


    <<For reliable, high-usage bandwidth, it goes about $50 to the gig per month, so $50,000+ per month just for bandwidth.>>

    You have not priced bandwidth lately.


    <<And big arse servers running 24/7 use lots and lots of power, about $2,000 a month.>>


    Electricity must be very expensive where you live. We run dozens of computers, including some rather larger servers and our electric big with the summer air conditioning was $365 this month.

  5. #25
    Originally posted by Yorkforce
    Let me get this right .. You think players want to pay for the booster pack? You think the original beta testers of AO who were told that land owning capabilitys were going to be included in launch that in fact it wouldnt be included at launch and that they would have to pay more for it when it was finally released to the public .. all this being said *after* paying for the original game?
    wow! first off, I think this is the longest sentence ever written (actually probably should count as two, since you did make an effort to get to Question marks there. Secondly, I am an original beta tester. Many of us thought the initial release should be held off and that other features should be pulled until they were fixed.

    Also, Land Owning is a bit different in theory than what they are suggesting. Land Owning is having a building/apartment/etc. They are talking about adding (in theory) PvP bases. They would be like your flag in the game capture the flag. These are PvP points of interest (most likely not a good place to store your precious uniques.

    This being said. We were never told nor led to believe that we would recieve PvP bases.

    Also, I WILL be buying the booster and I'm more than happy to. The booster should add a lot of improvements to the game from what it sounds like (graphics/sounds/a reason to PvP)... I look forward to it.

    In addition, I like the fact that it is optional. So any of you that can't afford/don't want to afford/need an excuse to quit, don't have to buy it.

  6. #26

    Re: Paying for Patches?

    Originally posted by Yorkforce
    f) Why, after this kind of behaviour i should continue to subscribe to Anarchy Online?

    I agree I can't think of a single reason why you should stay. I say cancel your membership now and leave the forums for good, that will teach them..

    ~aqua

  7. #27
    not meaning to be so negagive Hagus, but if you run a business, you of course deal with expenses and profit. Remember, that the sense of a business is to turn a profit. I highly think that FC exists, only to give us a great game without turning a profit for itself.

    I can say that at my company, a program makes a minimum of 75k. Knowing the pay there, I'd average to be roughly the same. Now, odds are you have more than 1 programer, i'd guess a minimum of 40. Your now at 300k in programer staff only. How about the secretaries, janitors, Management, SE's (if you have systems, you probably have those), NOC employees, general network guys and other misc staff? hmmm, well even if you decrease the amount of programers, your now running roughly 700k. After that, lets consider in the expenses of your offices. Though some house a business out of a warehouse bay, I highly doubt this is the practice of FC, so we now have that expense put in. I'll judge by the monthly fee of our space so your now looking at another 50k. Very reasonable for nice offices. Don't forgot to consider in general office supplies here while your at it. I'm betting someone there makes some kind of copies or uses their printers. Then of course there is your bandwidth fee. I'm assuming they're using OC12's. Your normal bandwidth cost is about $500 per month for 100gig off an OC12. Ahhhhh, but that would be using an outside source. I'm guessing they house their own OC12's (multiple most likely) so figure in 3k x how many OC12's they'd have (maybe even OC48 based off their needed bandwidth).

    overall, probably around 800k, maybe more. then there's that really fun thing called a profit. Based off what people say they're bringing in, minus monthly business needs, overall, they'd be considered to be a stable, at best, company bringing in a profit margine of around 5mil per year. Of course none of this includes nonstandard costs, so you can reduce that margine a bit more.

    Fact is.... if you feel you can do better....the go ahead and do it. If all you can do is sit and complain, then quit. I've run businesses, I'm a developer, and I can fully understand what goes into all this. Noone makes you play the game. The best way you could possibly speak out against it would be to stop your payment...however for everyone 1 person that complains, 10 praise... and for every 1 that quits, 5 more will join. Thats the joy of the software industry. Get used to it.

  8. #28
    Originally posted by Admirable


    wow! first off, I think this is the longest sentence ever written (actually probably should count as two, since you did make an effort to get to Question marks there. Secondly, I am an original beta tester. Many of us thought the initial release should be held off and that other features should be pulled until they were fixed.

    Also, Land Owning is a bit different in theory than what they are suggesting. Land Owning is having a building/apartment/etc. They are talking about adding (in theory) PvP bases. They would be like your flag in the game capture the flag. These are PvP points of interest (most likely not a good place to store your precious uniques.

    This being said. We were never told nor led to believe that we would recieve PvP bases.

    Also, I WILL be buying the booster and I'm more than happy to. The booster should add a lot of improvements to the game from what it sounds like (graphics/sounds/a reason to PvP)... I look forward to it.

    In addition, I like the fact that it is optional. So any of you that can't afford/don't want to afford/need an excuse to quit, don't have to buy it.
    Yes , sorry Admirable.

    It wasnt very clear and i probably left alot of reasoning as to why i made that statement which lead to the confusion.

    What i meant was .. land owning in PvP is a bit of a norm , its something that more or less leads to a perminence in a pvp state making pvp an meaningful experience.

    That being said .. The current state of PvP in AO is .. as many will tell you , very broken imbalanced and none conclusive .. that meaning if you killed 2000 omnis for 4 days , its not gonna make a single bit of difference to the game itself.

    My other gripe as i stated on my 2nd post was that paying for this booster pack , which is a step in the direction of a fix towards PvP and as advertised in the original game (2 sides fighting mono a mono) should very very clearly be covered by the $13 per month that i pay currently.

    I've seen some very strong views (and flames heh) in this thread and to all of you who continue to flame me for my views on this matter , im sorry if ive caused any pain or discomfort to you, it wasnt my intention.
    I enjoy reading others views on this *topic*, but the other trend thats very apperent in AO (which is damn shame) is the constant personal attacks that really have no baring on what the players are posting about.

    Fortunatly for me, im not the kind of person to take such personal attacks personally (love those kinds of sentances,lol) , I know who i am and what i have achieved and im happy with that.

    But I still think the paying of clumps of patches(or booster packs as Funcom calls them) is a very wrong and potentially fatal step to make.

    Customers dont mind paying for quality , customers dont mind paying to help a product become more sucessful , But customers do mind paying for something that should by all rights , already have been paid for.

    Further to what ive been saying .. A Subscription charge should have meaning , once you replace this with sub ploys called *booster packs* the original subscription charge starts becoming questionable.

    Some of you took my last statement from the first post as a direction to cancel my subscription because i wasnt happy about the game? Thats not what i was saying, I was asking this *What is my subscription charge now paying for if i have to pay seperatly for patches?*

    Or maybe I should ask .. *What is my total purchase for an expansion pack for, if part of that pack is taken out and sold seperatly?*

    Its your choice to deem what you think i was trying to ask , but I though i was pretty clear.

    But I ask this of those who have taken my statements and dissed em.
    Can you answer the questions above? as you seem to have avoided the main question.

  9. #29

    Do it with your eyes open...

    My point is just this.... Money (beyond) CD cost for anything is extra cash flow.

    Do you think they hired extra programers to develop this "booster pack" or were resources which should have been creating scheduled upgrades/patchs and improvments (which are part of your subscription price) ge allocated to work on this project. You see in order to justify charging extra based on any cost those cost *Must* be incremental to normal operating expenses. I say that this "booster pack" did not have incremental cost an as such should be part of our monthly subscription services. I have *no* problem paying for Expansions, as they often require company's to purchase new software (Game engine, Rollmaster..ect..ect..) to upgrade the game. In an expansion substantial *incremental* development time and cost must be covered. In this booster pack situation I just don't see that being the case. I see things which could/should have been implemented (if patch schedule had stayed on schedule) and a simple money ploy. Now making more money is not a bad thing....but I can assure you that that *is* one of the primary driving forces behind the "Booster Pack" and I have a posting from a World Designer which says as much ......(decent honest guy so I'm not going to post a link to that here).
    But here is what's said when a player says the "booster pack" should be free.

    "Hey, on a personal level I agree with you. But, as neutral and social democratic as Norway brands itself FC still has to abide by the rules of the capatalist game to be a developer/publisher. We have other titles we want to make/publish and several more envisioned AO expansions. Regular patches will continue to follow (though in what form I'm not entirely sure) and AO's other meta-games will continue to develop. We've got clips of content loaded for 14.5 and beyond. Production takes aim, management has the call on when to open fire. "

    Funcom World Designer

    So let's not pretend that charging for this is just to *cover cost* .....again making money is good, but lets give to them with our eyes open







    The work to create this was/is *NOT* incremental cost to normal business, it's *just* 3 or 4 patches rolled into one. Now, it's your money so it's all good. But lets not pretend that box sales for efforts you normally receive no incremental income from are not a positive. Bottom line, if you pay it is a great idea...if not then it was not.

  10. #30

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Originally posted by Sarv
    I think this booster pack is just a way for FC to drain us for more cash.

    Well, if this will actually drain u on cash, u shouldnt play.
    I like AO but if it would drain me i'd sure as **** find a better place to spend my hard earned money.

    But the fact of paying for a booster isnt wrong ... either u like it and play on, or u dont and júst let it go

  11. #31

    Geez *I give up*

    Quit being so cheap, people! Its a few extra hours at work, that'll pay for your booster pack. If you really HAVE to be that cheap, don't buy it. We're talking about maybe 30 dollars max here? For Europeans that's a few beers less a week, for Americans that's 50 less candy bars a week.
    Last edited by Xephydes; Aug 15th, 2002 at 01:42:07.
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  12. #32

    sigh....

    Trenchwar makes a VERY good point there. The booster will probably be, what, 10-20 dollars? If that is a horrible terrible drain on your bank account, then you really shouldnt be doing any MMORPGs. Heck, if you want to complain about this EXACT SAME TOPIC, but more expensive, go check out the "Legends" server on EQ. Essentially, that's what that server is... but you dont just pay once... oh no... you pay 30 extra dollars PER MONTH. Granted, there's some more stuff in there, but still.... And plus, it's not like there is any reason you HAVE to go buy it. If you think it's so horrible-terrible, then just freakin DONT BUY IT!!!! But dont come on here and WHINE about it!!!!! I, personally, think it's good they are doing this. The actual expansion wont be out for some time... which kinda sucks. But at least with this, some of the new features can be brought out quickly. And NO, this would NOT, I repeat, *NOT*, work as a patch. Jeez, you'd think you'd have at least that much sense... The dang thing will probably be quite a large number of megabytes.... what if it is around 50 megs? Do you honestly think players will put up with a 50 meg download??? Most players dont have broadband, sadly... I dont, and I know that it would be literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to do that..... So if it's that size, they dont have much choice. It's either release it in "booster pack", or everyone has to wait for all of these features till the expansion. And once again, if you dont like it, dont buy it. But dont gripe about it on here to people who dont want to hear your complaining.
    "I'll hold on to this greasy, dripping meatball while you risk your life for a bowlfull of berries." - Princess Peach Toadstool

  13. #33
    Originally posted by Zylina
    Right on Sarv. It's amazing how those that defend Funcom in every possible way have such a rigid outlook on life. If you don't like it, leave! Heh. What fun. :P
    I'm not defending those who posted here earlier or FunCom, just adding my thoughts to this thread.

    Booster / addon packs isn't that unusual in mmorpgs. Of course FC does that to get some extra cash flow, if you had the possibillity to drain 20-30$ from maybe 20% of the playerbase of course you hear chi ching and do it.

    FC and many other game companies, (almost) all the software makers that sell products don't give a dime about us. They want to make money. FC didn't make AO to be kind to us, it's a business, not pleasure.

    So if you're mad at FC for doing this, you have to be mad at Microsoft for making windows 95, win95 OSR 1, OSR2, OSR 2.5, win98, win98se, etc.

    If you aren't angry at Microsoft for doing that, why be angry at FC for doing the exact same thing ? If you are mad at Microsoft for doing that well be mad at FC for doing it also, but it doesn't help.
    regards
    Inge
    Hjemmekinosjef.

  14. #34
    I d like to address this to all AO lovers who feel that just because we are speaking our mind we do not like AO and should quit!

    Its not true, we love AO!
    That is why we care so much of the decision they take for the game, because it affects the game that we love and the friends we have in game.

    What everyones fails to realise is that angrying your customers will push them to the competition. 80% of the old school boys and girls are frustrated/bored, I know people that leave every week!

    Do all of you wanna see the level 160 + leave the game within the next 6 months? They are talking about it! Walk around Rubika! Listen!

    The fact of the matter is they should be releasing a mega patch that comprise alot more then what is even mentionned in the booster pack to get their long time players interested in the game again. Announcing things that players perceive as a "pay patch" that caters only to those interested in PVP is not a good thing.

    They even mentionned they won t do anything for level 200s player, even though there is now 120+ level 200 players with around 150 (stats ) more comming up in the next few months. We are talking long time subscribers here, people went through 3 billing(6 months) cycles for the most part.

    To those who think we do nt understand the business side of it, maybe not all understand, but we should not have too, we are customers

    I dont expect MY customers to understand my financial problems. I have to deliver, regardless of the issues, as I am sure most developers and business people will tell you.

    If I tell the customer that a certain feature is not implemented but will be, I have to do it. Even if its cost me, because it was my mistake to under evaluate the project!

    I read a book by Napoleon Hill entitled the "law of success" when I was younger. It was about the different people who had success, personal and corporate and their attitude and habits. One of the habits I remeber well was: "The habit to do more then your paid for." (The other one, was to write your thoughts on a piece of paper and destroy it, which I did lots in these forums before pressing submit, and something I should do maybe more often )

    Tired, sorry for any typo s or if I offended any of you. This is my opinion and I am entitled to it. But you can be sure that milking your customers is not the way to go for a long term partnership.
    Last edited by andertec; Aug 15th, 2002 at 03:15:09.

  15. #35
    Originally posted by Sjoko


    I'm not defending those who posted here earlier or FunCom, just adding my thoughts to this thread.

    Booster / addon packs isn't that unusual in mmorpgs. Of course FC does that to get some extra cash flow, if you had the possibillity to drain 20-30$ from maybe 20% of the playerbase of course you hear chi ching and do it.

    FC and many other game companies, (almost) all the software makers that sell products don't give a dime about us. They want to make money. FC didn't make AO to be kind to us, it's a business, not pleasure.

    So if you're mad at FC for doing this, you have to be mad at Microsoft for making windows 95, win95 OSR 1, OSR2, OSR 2.5, win98, win98se, etc.

    If you aren't angry at Microsoft for doing that, why be angry at FC for doing the exact same thing ? If you are mad at Microsoft for doing that well be mad at FC for doing it also, but it doesn't help.
    Are we paying a monthly subscription rate to MS to get new features in at the moment? No, we are paying for the software.

    There is a difference between paying for a service and paying for a software!

  16. #36
    If we let them charge on us for this so-called-booster-pack-but-is-actually-patch, they'll most likely do it again... IF FC finds this as a way to generate money from us, it's extremly likely for them to do it again... period.

  17. #37
    Wow, people are pissed off at this thing! Holy crap you'd think that they were being screwed out of their life savings! I think some of you guys should relax, calm down, have a Coke and a smile and shut the ***** up.

    Yeah I remember when all this super content was promised in the original game and I think everybody here is a little guilty of falling for their pipedreams and media-hype that was supposed to make this game da bomb diggety of MMORPG's.

    Yeah I think it's kinda ****ty that if we want to participate in stuff that was supposed to happen, we need to buy booster packs. But hey, guess what kiddies, AO is not the first game to do this. EQ does it, the Sims does it, Operation Flashpoint does it, Roller Coaster Tycoon does it; I think it's safe to say that selling additional content is a fair and common practice in the PC game market nowadays, and I'm sure it's only going to get worse.

    Take EQ for example, they're released what like 3 (soon to be 4) expansion/booster packs over the years and they are still an extremely popular game. But look at Luclin; it required that people have atleast 512 MB RAM to play. My friend went out and bought another stick of RAM just so he could play this game, so we're talking like $200+ dollars just so he could play an expansion pack.

    Now I don't know what is making so many of you people so angry at paying another $10 bucks or so compared to $200+ for an EQ expansion. I guess a lot of you are under the COMPLETELY MISLEAD impression that "guy I have to buy this expansion". It's optional dudes; only buy it if you want it, and if you don't want it, then don't whine about it. You can still play the game and if you feel that you need to get extra content, then cough up $10.

    But seriously that issue aside, my REALLY BIG beef with this game is every little bug and glitch that I encounter on a daily basis. What really cheeses me off is that Funcom expects me to pay $10 for new stuff when it still takes me like 90 seconds to equip a belt or NCU upgrade when everything else equips instantly. I hate when I use FlingShot and the icon does not grey out so it would appear that I can still use the skill.

    I can't stand these tiny annoying bugs, almost as much as I hate the monthly "nerf-a-profession" patches they release. Every profession is so out-of-balance with each other, the profession forums are cluttered with messages about how they loathe another profession for some reason.

    Anyways, people people maybe just relax and if you don't want to deal with this expansion/booster bull**** then you are more than welcome to go to another MMORPG. Being a AO subscriber is a choice. You choose to pay these people money so, to some extent, you want to partake in their service. By no means am I defending FC, they still have a lot of serious game and customer service issues to deal with, but I think y'all should just take a deep breath and go outside. Take AO a little less seriously and go get drunk with your friends or something.

  18. #38
    Some facts for you.

    Fact 1. Funcom is a for-profit business. Of course they want to make money.

    Fact 2. MMORPG's are dynamic by their very nature. Would you play an online game where the developer stated they've finished it and were adding nothing?

    Fact 3. If you don't like it, leave.

    Have a nice day.

  19. #39
    Originally posted by Ulujain
    A lot of you guys here are nuts.

    Some facts for you.

    Fact 1. Funcom is a for-profit business. Of course they want to make money.
    - Don't think anyone argues that fact, what we are arguing is their tactic of doing it in deceiving their customers. Its Obvious or you would not have a thread like this in the first place.



    Fact 2. MMORPG's are dynamic by their very nature. Would you play an online game where the developer stated they've finished it and were adding nothing?
    -That is the point, AO is not dynamic as it was advertised to be, meaning adding content on a regular basis.

    If they would a delivered what they promised as far as taking over outpost and guards changing, as a patch, most would welcome this boster pack functionnality as new stuff, but since we never got what we were told as patch, we all feel played with.


    Fact 3. If you don't like it, leave.

    Have a nice day.


    You won t get rid of me that easy, ill stay till my current friends list goes empty AGAIN :P

    There is a reason I play a rebel in this anarchy online, its cause I am!

  20. #40

    Re: Geez *I give up*

    Originally posted by Schling
    Quit being so cheap, people! Its a few extra hours at work, that'll pay for your booster pack. If you really HAVE to be that cheap, don't buy it. We're talking about maybe 30 dollars max here? For Europeans that's a few beers less a week, for Americans that's 50 less candy bars a week.
    Lol, being European I really like your way of seeing this
    I hope there'll be a downloadable version of this boosterpack from AO as it was with the actual game. If in my case living out in the middle of nowhere and have to order candy from the internet... I'd like to see a downloadable version. (Perhaps a reduced price since you don't have to press it on CDs?)

    Aww just a thought.

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