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Thread: Enforcer Wish List

  1. #1

    Enforcer Wish List

    Since Akarah and Deng seem to be tied up on RK4 or just plain MIA I thought I'd just summarise the brainstorming thread (which seems to have died off anyway) into a clear form for some final discussion

    1a) Fix Taunt Procs:
    - Currently they trigger reflect/shield damage which is annoying
    To me this seems like more of a bug than a wish but oh well

    1b) Improve Taunt Procs
    - Make the Procs bigger
    - Make the Procs have a DoT effect
    - Give the Procs some kind of multiplier that then enhances all the other taunts an enforcer does.
    - Scale the procs with a perk or skill
    All good ideas imo

    2) A new Brain
    - The 100QL jump from the 180 to 280 brain is unmatched in any other symbiant line and is frankly very harsh, as all the other classes who can use infantry symbs have alternatives, whilst enforcers have no choice. Whilst solitus and nanomage enforcers can get the 280 brain on, it still takes in the order of 80 days of perk resets. A 250 or 260 brain would still provide a twinking challenge at endgame, but would not be ridiculous, and those who want to push can still go for the 280+ brains for the added benefit
    Please add this, although I know I could do the 280 brain, I'd rather not have to reset for two and a bit months

    3) Improve Infantry Symbs
    - Infantry Symbiants lack a lot of things, such as bright and shining agility, and healdelta in the foot. As heal delta is an important part of our survival this would be a welcome improvement. As enforcers have no other choice of symbiants the lack of base abilities is quite hard, sing as we lack abilities at 9/18 points. Compare this to control (18/18) or support (16/18) and it seems like a slight imbalance. Additionally infantry symbs lack other key skills, such as psychology (0/3) and max nano/nanopool/nanodelta (0/3, 0/3, 0/3)
    Definately an issue, particularly the lack of agility, psychology and healdelta, as these are of particular importance to enforcers. Personally I think a special melee-only symbiant, similiar to the exterminator ocular could rectify some of these problems

    4) Improve Single Taunts
    - Single taunts should be the primary way an enforcer holds aggro, and mongo should be a more specialist tool for situations where mass tanking is required. However at the moment the taunt rate on the single taunts falls woefully behind mongo (an old RK nano), mainly due to longer recharges and lower taunt values, and the only thing single taunts have going for them is cost. However it is the case that enforcers at mid-levels need to chain mongo even on single mobs just to try to hold aggro. Improving single taunts by either lowering the recharges, increasing their taunt value (the highest single taunt should do a lot more taunt than mongo) either directly, or by linking them to a perkline such as mutate, would be most welcome.
    Its dumb that I have to use mongo rather than single taunts when tanking. The only time single taunts are even remotely necessary is for working with a mezzer, but since the majority of mezzers seem to suck, and at 210+ any enforcer and doc should be able to handle 3 or 4 mobs without mezzes anyway, the use of single taunts is rather debatable

    5) A New Mongo:
    - People want one, nuff said. Taunting for more, and with a slightly improved HoT
    If you read above you'll see my thoughts on mongo and single taunts. Although a new mongo which scales with a perkline, or a skill and possbily underperforms the exisiting mongos at low levels, and outperforms at high levels would be nice, as there are still many situations where mongo is very needed

    6) Weapons
    - So many things people want
    - A new Beam, preferably with the word "doom" in it's name, or a bench, or fridge, or lamppost, it's all good
    - An improvement to "old school weapons" such as EQB, Punishment Rod and Slayerdoid Crystal Claw.
    - New textures for existing weapons, and change the exisiting graphics for weapons like Kyr Swords/Spears, where the shared graphics is a shame.
    - Bigger weapons
    - More choices for 1hb and 2hb, as it stands at endgame there is only really 1 viable choice of weapon for each of these classes, for PvM and PvP. Whilst 1he, 2he and piercing have a plethora of interesting weapons to experiment with.
    - Allow more choices of biomaterial types for AI weapons, giving hammers the type 240 and 76 upgrade, and the type 112 upgrade for sledges would be most welcome.
    - More "alternative" weapons
    This is a mix of fun and expediency. When I look at the agent/soldier/adv forums they talk about their "gunrack" and the pros and cons of different weapons in different situations. Enforcers, whilst we have the wonderful benefit of being able to choose many weapon lines, have next to no choice within these lines, especially come endgame. This is particularly the case for 1hb, which has probably the smallest choice of weapons through all levels. It would be nice to have a 220-260 (or similiar) weapon for 1hb/2he imo, like Scimitar, Maul (atrox only ), MBC, Lost Hope/Faith, Piercing Evil, Sword of Wonder (advs got two to choose from, nerf!), Joy of the Hunt/Race, Syndaicate Messenger Gun, Excalibur (Keeper only ) etc etc. Equally, upgrades for exisitng weapons such as EQB from apfs or other raid zones would be welcome. Please give us some fun choice and some practical choice FC

    7) Extension of RK nanolines / SL nanos
    - SL brought us many new nanos, however the only true extension was the single taunt line, and all the new nanos are almost solely for PvM use.
    - Rage and Challenger could do to be extended with one or two new nanos each. Both using the same template (e.g. a new challenger chould last for around 1:45, add about 290 AAO and about 87-95 damage; whilst still having a high(ish) cost and the NSD effect)
    - Extension of layer nanolines
    - Extend the fear line of nanos
    - Give us an AOE fear
    - Extension of the damage shields, make them bigger and add more HP. If needed make them self only.
    - Remove/Lower the snare on the SL ess, and add Str/Stam to them
    - Allow us to use taunts under challenger (i.e. remove the PM portion of the NSD)
    - Give us an AoE taunt without the heal component that solely requires PM and allow us to use it under challenger.
    - Add a scale compnent to the SL ess
    - Reduce the scale of the Rage DoT in SL.
    - Remove the cooldown from the element nanos.
    - Proc Rage or Challenger
    I'm in favour of all of these, particularly new fear (as I feel this is the most undervalued part of our toolset) and the use of taunts under challenger (soldiers got it, why not us ). As tyk obseved, the snare on the SL ess is there for a reason, however the size of the snare could be reduced whilst maintaining some balance. Also new layers would be such a good thing, in so many ways. Also a bigger damage shield would rock, as damage shields do represent one of our PvP defenses and a chunk of our aggro holding.

    8) More AR please
    - Higher AR fits with the notion of us being the masters of melee weapons.
    - An AAO bonus either in the form of improved symbs, improved nanos, or perkline support (perhaps as a complete overhaul of MoM it could add a significantly curved AAO bonus, that adds little at low levels but kicks in hard at TL6).
    Who doesn;t want more AR PvP wise this would be a nice offering, enforcers can already get the highest AR in game, it should be one of our defining features imo. However due to disparity in perks and symbiants, evade classes can get far higher evades than any class can get AR. Currently the only counter for this is Mongo rage, however limiting PvP to breeds rather than professions is crude. It should not be the case that someone "has" to eb atrox in order to have a chance of competing. Yet without sufficient AR our offensive toolest is useless. From a PvM perspective, one of the biggest problem in the "bad levels" is not being able to perk/hit mobs in harder missions, and the loss of damage and taunts there means that we rely solely on taunts and procs to hold aggro, which in the majority of cases isn;t enough, as the DD classes take a jump in AR and damage at the same point

    9) Remove the Graphic Effect on Troll Form
    - This is by far one of the most obvious graphical perk effects and is a hindrance in PvP
    *shrug* wouldn;t say no to this I guess

    10) A New Special Attack
    - Shades and Advs get backstab, give us a new attack based off brawl. Call it something like "Tackle" or "Haymaker" and give it a nic effect, like a scaling taunt, or an AAD debuff, or a blind, or a 90% stun .
    One of the biggest problems, arguably the biggest problem is the fact that, while we can maintain aggro over time, for many levels our alpha is weak, and so getting that initial aggro is tricky. Even with Mongo/top single taunt, brawl and fast attack we can't match a single full auto or backstab or AS in terms of building hate. Getting the initial aggro seems to be a very important component of holding aggro, so some new opening attack would be most welcome. It would be additionally nice if this attack had some further PvP use, such as an AAD debuff ("Your defenses have been lowered as a result of being suplexed by a mofo enforcer")

    11) Perks
    - Quite a few things here...
    - Change the requirement on devastating blow from "Stunned" to "Affected by Bring the Pain"
    - AoE SnD
    - Manners of Mongo is unused by most enforcers. We have no means to get the 2K psychology needed to get the top tier of taunts and the benefits are pretty useless. Mutate is a very nice perkline on the other hand, and is better than MoM in so many ways. Improve MoM please.
    - Change the attack skill on arouse anger to AR, not Mat.Crea (bug)
    - Add more healdelta to perks
    - 2hb perks are woefully underpowered in comparison to Reaver perks.
    - Add a melee enrgy perkline
    - Fix it so that melee energy is usable with the Champion of Heavy infantry perks
    - Increase the PvM usefulness of Brawler Perks
    - Make it so that Stone fist and avalanche are usable for the whole period of Troll form, or extend the duration of "affected by"
    - Remove or adjust the requirements on the last two 1he perks so that they are usable by enforcers
    I'll take all of these please. Regarding 2hb perks, as I see it enforcers are the masters of melee and should be able to use any melee weapon as well as any other prof. However I do think that blunt weapons should be our speciality. As it stands 2hb weapons are already slow (undesirable) and so adding weak perks to this means that 2hb is far from the most popular choice at endgame. Improving the 2hb perks so that they outperform 2he and 1hb, particularly for PvP, would be good. 1hb will still be better in PvM due to the speed, and with this we won't have every other enf looking like a keeper. Please

    12) Layers
    - Please extend the layers nanoline with an 800ish, 900ish and 1Kish layers
    - We would love to have a cyclic layers aura. Especially one which (like the fixer SL runbuffs and leader of the pack) gives added bonuses to the enf, such as a larger layer for the enforcer and a little bit of extra damage/reflect shield. These layers should refresh fairly, but not too slowly. A cyclic layers aura would have many benefits bith in PvP and all types of PvM.
    A cyclic layers aura would make me so happy, so very very happy. I think that chaining single layers should still outperform an aura in principle, but otherwise I can't see how this ould be a bad thing at all.

    13) More Pie
    - We want more pie!

    14) Improve Sneak Attack
    If shotguns can have Aimed shot, we can bloody well have some 1hb/2he weapons with sneak attack. Also lower the recharge
    Enforcers shouldn't have to resort to using AS to get guaranteed hits in PvP..... *shakes head*

    15) Improve our Defensive toolset
    - Damage mitigation is an important park of being a good tank, second only to managing aggro. As it stands many other classes are able to tank through evades in some situations, rendering enforcers somewhat redundant in these situations. Please gives us more defensive tools so that we not only excel at holding aggro, but also don't seem so squichy. Alternatively add new zones where all the mobs have very high ARs so evade tanking is less effective/impossible. Giving us better defensive tools, such as better damage shields and layers would be great, as well as more heal delta.

    16) Heal Delta:
    - Add it to infantry feet
    - More healdelta from perks please
    - Add heal delta buffs to the SL esses
    - Give us a buff
    - Give us a pure Heal Delta buff
    - Some enf only armour which buffs heal delta
    Heal Delta is one of our main defenses and is our main source of healing. Giving us more would benefit us in both PvM and PvP.

    17) "Team" Buffs
    - Give our most popular buffs (ess and damage shield) tesam versions
    Pfft, the people asking for this are just lazy
    Last edited by Kyai; Jun 20th, 2006 at 02:23:06.

    Enjoying RK4

    STATUS OF SKY: Not Falling

    Gimp is a state of mind, nerfest is a state of being.

  2. #2
    18) Multi Melee
    - Give us more ways to buff multi melee, be it items or enlarging the multi melee componenet of the 1he/1hb/piercing buffs.
    Multi is an annoying obstacle for enforcers, whilst advs and shades get a crapload of love here, in the form of buffing nanos and items. More Multi melee buffs please.

    19) Armour and Armour Graphics
    - More new enforcer-only tank armours
    - Add meshes to the veil/shroud
    - Fix the tier shoulderpads for non-atrox enforcer
    Personally I think the lack of a mesh on the shroud and ceil looks good. But more tank armours would be awesome

    20) FIX EoT!
    - Do it dammit!

    21) Mongo Rage
    - Make it enforcer only, it is "Mongo" after all, and Mongo was an enforcer.
    I doubt this'll happen, but I think It'd be a very good idea. I'm not 100% sure where it would go, proably into mutate, but then we'd loose highway, which I also rather like. The only problem with this is that it kinda shafts everyone else vs those damn overpowered evaders. Tough call here, I think overall I wouldn;t mind mongo rage, although it's PvM uses are nonexistent as I see it

    22) NCU
    - Make some new Deck items that combine exsiting deck support items such as complier and CPU upgrade.
    - Range increaser boosts the range of the Mongo Taunt?
    Works for me

    23) More Damage
    - The people want to do more damage, simple enough eh?
    I' pretty sure we're not supposed to be a DD class, and as it stands an endgame enforcer can achieve highly competitive damage output, although we do have to work for our damage much more so than other classes. Personally I think we have a lot of other strong areas and don't need more damage to ve competitive or vaible.

    24) Taunt Tools
    - Fix the AI taunter so that it taunts for more than scorpio's aim or the jealousy agg multiplier
    - Add new taunt tools that have a variety of effects, like engineer trimmers, but that can be used on mobs
    The fact that the codex taunts for less than either the jealousy taunter or scorpio's aim rather questions why it was implemented.

    25) Team Detaunt Aura
    - A nano that when run grants all team members a proc detaunt. The size and %age of the detaunt scaling upwards with higher levels of skill.
    This might just be the coolest thing we could get. With a top aura giving a 50% chance to do a 500-1K detaunt would go a long way to alleiviating many of our aggro woes.

    26) Assault-Class Tank Armour
    - Should drop somewhere outside Biomare, like CDR's and the TIM scope.

    27) The Wen-Wen
    - It hasn't even been added into the game yet, and we don;t know if it will. But either way it sucks bad. Give us something better than this joke buff please


    I hope that covers all the pertinent suggestions. Correct me if there's anything I missed. I think overall enforcers are one of the most balanced classes. We have out strengths and we also have our weaknesses. As it stands one of our main strengths (HP) wanes in usefulness, so that becoming an HP blob serves no use, whereas a fixer can experience ever increasing benefit from more evades. To that end I'd like to see improvements in areas where we are a bit lacking, and a little bit of gentle loving in the areas we should be a bit better. We don;t need a massive fix, we just need a few prods here and there that will smooth over some of the more painful parts of the game and set enforcers back on the path of being the unqeustionable best tanks, in every situation.

    To that end my three picks from the lsit would have to be (in no particular order):

    - Improving the single taunts so that they become our main source of aggro control.
    - Improving our defensive toolset
    - More AR

    I think enforcers should be a dynamic class, and they should take some skill to play well. Mashing a single action over and over again doesn;t make us look very impressive. I want my enforcer to be taunting, and still have time to maintain layers and fear off adds, overall offering more to a team than a lump who takes a beating Hopefully if we get even one or two of these things it will go some wahy to making the dynamic enforcer more of a reality.
    Last edited by Kyai; Jun 20th, 2006 at 02:09:04.

    Enjoying RK4

    STATUS OF SKY: Not Falling

    Gimp is a state of mind, nerfest is a state of being.

  3. #3
    Did I miss anything?

    Enjoying RK4

    STATUS OF SKY: Not Falling

    Gimp is a state of mind, nerfest is a state of being.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyai
    Did I miss anything?
    Not that I realized.

    Thanks for the effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primakoff
    You can never deal enough damage to OD even the most average role-player 220 soldier with the right gun, so taunts are your only hope.
    I want to tank The Beast with nothing but a chair and a Concrete Cushion FFS!

  5. #5
    Omg <3 Kyai, great review.

    Might want to change the dark red color though, it's hard to read.

  6. #6
    New Colours

    Enjoying RK4

    STATUS OF SKY: Not Falling

    Gimp is a state of mind, nerfest is a state of being.

  7. #7
    bump for agi + healdelta in infantry symbs, twinking symbs in by having to take off your hard worked leg+feet symbs for refined imps is just NOT fun imo

  8. #8
    Good work on the list. Also add better proc detaunt lines for shades or something would make it so much smoother.
    Katyri 220 Neutral Enforcer 2nd Neutral 220 Enforcer on RK1! Proud President of Divine Retribution Recruitment!
    Allmerciful 219 Omni Doctor, Squad Commander of TETN
    Amaethon 177 Neutral Adventurer
    Extorsion 150 Neutral PVP-MP
    - Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations. -
    My work on Deviant art

  9. #9
    Still only having a tiny enf I haven't really experienced most of it yet, but one thing really stuck out, improve the fear line! Especially an AoE fear, that would be so good. I only just started using fear as I was told not to bother when I asked around, but it's really great at times. So bump for giving Enforcers more diverse aggro handling options! The more options we have for managing aggro, the better.

    And lets face it, when the enf swings a hammer thats twice as big as yourself, who wouldn't be scared

  10. #10
    Yeah for 2hb

    have upgrades for punishment rod

    This by far was one of my favorite weapons during my 2hb phase low requiremnts and i did 4k damage a hit. Slow but it did a massive amount of damage. upgrades for this weapon would make 2hb even more viable.

  11. #11
    Good work Kyai

    Some things spring to mind...

    Improving the single taunts so that they can out taunt equivalent Mongos (including fixing their recharge rate) would very likely decrease or remove the need for an improved Mongo.

    Why don't we add a small heal delta to the Manner of Mongo perk line and put Mongos Rage in there instead?

    And I still say we should overhaul the SL Essences completely! No snares, add str stam boosts (even if they are all just equal to BEHE) and FFS make them last at least an hour!
    Kissysuzuki 220 - 24 - 60/70
    Minisuzuki 205 - 9 - 13/70
    Riders of the Lost Org

    "Enforcers are being nibbled to death"

  12. #12
    Excellent post

    I never thought of the proc taunt nanos adding a +% taunt to mongo and singles but it sounds like it would work pretty well. Higher +% add for each higher ql proc nano would be enough of a boost that I don't think we would even need a new mongo or new singles. 1 fix would take care of quite a few suggestions at once.

    and if EQB gets an upgrade before EoT I'll go crazy.

  13. #13
    looks great kyai
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
    Advass - [Adventurer] nerf 220/21
    Wackios - [Shade] gankzsz 220/16
    Soldios - [Soldier] FA Burst 220/22
    Docios - [Doctor] healsplxz 220/20
    Cratios - [Bureaucrat] tape 220/19
    Proud Board Member of Dark Front Cookies >> Bacon, remember that!

  14. #14
    holy cow! that is awesome. stickied.
    Akarah, Akarawr, Badunkadunk, Betresh, Donnar, Fivehands,
    Flugtag, Fral, Frieka, Geffy, Gefjun, Gefster, Gefz, Molebat...
    and a few more...

    Advisor of Synergy Factor

  15. #15

    Enjoying RK4

    STATUS OF SKY: Not Falling

    Gimp is a state of mind, nerfest is a state of being.

  16. #16
    Good work. But you missed two rather important things: make the 1he perk specials usable by enforcers and remove the cooldown on element nanos.
    Asynja, General of Ragnarok, the original level 200 and level 220 nanomage enforcer | Equip
    Art * Myling * En Garde!

  17. #17
    done and updated

    Enjoying RK4

    STATUS OF SKY: Not Falling

    Gimp is a state of mind, nerfest is a state of being.

  18. #18
    Bump for making the top two 1he perks usable by enforcers, infantry symbiant additions, upgrades to old weapons like eqb. I've left 1he, and changed back to 2he for the 2nd time. Upgrades to the Rage, Layer, Shield, Essence nano lines. Castable HP Aura like Behemoth would be nice. Similar cycle on shield nano, like adv's shield line. This is a nice post, bringing up some of the major needs/wants of most enforcers. The graphics on FoT/MR should be changed too. They tip your opponents off too much that their demise is incoming. IPR's are at 0 after weapon changes over the past 4 years.

    Bring my EQB back to life!! I quit the game for 6 mo's after that nerf. Alien Upgrade for it would be nice, making it enforcer only.

    WTB IPR Tokens!


  19. #19
    Tbh, who is the wishlist for? I mean if the person isn't really really committed, this not being a poll means he won't get a good opinion the popularity of the choices.

  20. #20
    Enfos dont need more AR, I can self almost 3000. We do need new mongo and extended perklines but the more damage isnt necessary. AoE SnD is asking too much as it pwns already. But wtf WTB AGILITY SYMBS!

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