Borealis Manifesto

[Nyadach]

Ok, minor recap here...what we hammered out so far, please continue to knock the living daylights out of this please (as long as you are "independent" or neutral that is):

Right of Freedom
Our ability to be free. Free to roam the planet, and free to live our lives how we wish. Our freedom not to be confined, oppressed or limited by others.

Right of Liberty
Our right to be immune from the laws not chosen by the neutral populace…the laws that we live by are choosen not by Omni, or Clan. We don’t have to follow those imposed on us others inside "independent" territory. In matters of conflict to be decided over by fellow neutral peers (possibly including the ICC). To be completely independent and autonomous of Omni and Clan authority over our lives, rights, and beliefs.

Right of Free Speech
Everyone has a right to argue as much as they like (had to since I argue with every bugger else hehe). The ability to speak freely about anything and everything. To not be hindered from being allowed to speak their minds about anything which can effect their rights, themselves, or their family.

Right to Carry Arms
Rubi-ka is a dangerous planet. You never know when someone, or something is going to try snacking on you. So the ability for “independent” citizens to carry a weapon, is both paramount to their existence, and continued existence to live on Rubi-ka…as in accordance to the Right to Defend and Right of Freedom.

Right to Defend
Their own lives, their family, their freedom, their liberty, and any property they may own. Rubi-ka has many hostile people, some maybe other “independent” citizens, some might be from one of the “factions”, and some may even be from off world. It doesn’t matter who they are, but every independent citizen should have the right to be able to defend themselves. Be that with a weapon or through the courts fairly.

[Berael]

Which leads to the amusing conundrum of "how do you govern independents?"

You really don't have to govern independents, they generaly govern themselves. So if you recall: a manifesto is not a body of law its a statement of ideals. Now cities are something different, you can certainly govern a city, and if there are laws, they can be enforced.

Yep, the good old "shades of grey"....but to be neutral. You are just that. Neutral.

What am I, Nyadach? Am I neutral? Because you and yarko just keep throwing out the idea 'well to be neutral you have to be NEUTRAL.' That reads to me like you can't be involved with any side in any way because that would mean you could be helping them and thus make you part of that side! I don't support the idealology of any side. Though I do often run in inferno with the Clans and do lots and lots of missions against the unredeemed. When i'm on RK I run into the outzones with Omni-Tek. I also take mission posts from all the sides against each other. In all of these situations I don't pay any attention to being balanced in my 'support' for a side, but on the other hand my involvement ends when I get what I want.

Nice additions and recaps by the way.

[Negs]

Ok, minor recap here...what we hammered out so far, please continue to knock the living daylights out of this please (as long as you are "independent" or neutral that is):

Right of Freedom
Our ability to be free. Free to roam the planet, and free to live our lives how we wish. Our freedom not to be confined, oppressed or limited by others.

Right of Liberty
Our right to be immune from the laws not chosen by the neutral populace…the laws that we live by are choosen not by Omni, or Clan. We don’t have to follow those imposed on us others inside "independent" territory. In matters of conflict to be decided over by fellow neutral peers (possibly including the ICC). To be completely independent and autonomous of Omni and Clan authority over our lives, rights, and beliefs.

Right of Free Speech
Everyone has a right to argue as much as they like (had to since I argue with every bugger else hehe). The ability to speak freely about anything and everything. To not be hindered from being allowed to speak their minds about anything which can effect their rights, themselves, or their family.

Right to Carry Arms
Rubi-ka is a dangerous planet. You never know when someone, or something is going to try snacking on you. So the ability for “independent” citizens to carry a weapon, is both paramount to their existence, and continued existence to live on Rubi-ka…as in accordance to the Right to Defend and Right of Freedom.

Right to Defend
Their own lives, their family, their freedom, their liberty, and any property they may own. Rubi-ka has many hostile people, some maybe other “independent” citizens, some might be from one of the “factions”, and some may even be from off world. It doesn’t matter who they are, but every independent citizen should have the right to be able to defend themselves. Be that with a weapon or through the courts fairly.

This is something I could agree with.

[Nyadach]

What am I, Nyadach? Am I neutral? Because you and yarko just keep throwing out the idea 'well to be neutral you have to be NEUTRAL.'

Thats the old thing though in that we're all incorrectly labled in that sense. For example many people are "neutral" as thats the closest they can get to being "independent" in the sense we discussed earlier. But those kinds of things don't change because thats how the ICC has laid down the law for what constitutes anyone not Clan or Omni. Am going to now try and get away from trying to define if or not are the neutrals/independents actually neutral or not. And back to what we actually started with, and thats can we as a group come up with something with describes the entire community as an idealogical framework?

[Dabblez]

And back to what we actually started with, and thats can we as a group come up with something with describes the entire community as an idealogical framework?

Maybe that is exatcly the problem. Most communities, most nations are not bound by idealogy. It common ancestry, common history and geography that make a people.

So maybe the real answer is that most Neutrals are Neutral because their moms and dads where Neutral, the grew up in a Neutral town, went to Neutral schools, got jobs in Neutral companies - in short the Neutral lands are their homes. And maybe that is all it takes.

The Clan have exactly the same identity issue as the Neutrals in that respect. There is no idealogy that defines all the Clans, not freedom, not opposition to Omni, not even the desire to stay on Rubi-Ka. It's historical accident and geography that define the Clans.

Savoy

[Nyadach]

So maybe the real answer is that most Neutrals are Neutral because their moms and dads where Neutral, the grew up in a Neutral town, went to Neutral schools, got jobs in Neutral companies - in short the Neutral lands are their homes. And maybe that is all it takes.

True, but there are those who are now neutral as they we're booted out from Omni or the Clans, and those who are "hiding out" amongst us from them as well. We are in part the "leftovers" striving to find a path some might say. But there are many neutrals who have pasts inside the Clans and/or Omni-Tek...some you might know of even

As for Clan image...simple. Horn wearing, goatskin trousar wearing loons! ok that was just a wind up but couldn't resist a go at them hehe

[Berael]

I'd say that the clans are largely defined by their fight with OT, since they can't avoid fighting with them in this 'war'. Additionaly they were formed to oppose OT oppression and those who came after just get caught up in the fray. There is so much history of violence between them that is not like they can just stop fighting without some sort of offical resolution to the conflict. Neutrals can just stop fighting, go home, and not really care much about it... unless you have a personal huge history that makes you massively wanted.

[Dabblez]

That is not correct Berael. Not all Clan are at war with OT. Many of the Legacy Clans are peaceful http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=377414, New Dawn even have a chapter house in Omni-1. Home, a Clan town is perfectly safe to Omni employees. And Grid Stream Productions, technically Clan , are known to perform at Omni social events all the time, they've even been invited to DJ at Omni-Pol balls a few times.

The fact is the Clans are just as heterogeneous a bunch as the Neutrals. Heritage and geography, not ideology, are what divide us all.


Savoy

[Nyadach]

So going back to the idealogical thing up top...is this thing now about there or are there a few more neuts who want to see some tweaks?

[Berael]

If that is the case than why is there this war that is supposedly going on, because it can't just be because of the Sentinels. Why than is it also that I hear derogitory slurs towards the 'other side' when i'm in omni and clan towns? Both the clans and OT give out tokens as rewards to their members. Many of these tokens come from running missions against or slaying members of the other side.

Its also kind of absurd in a way that the clans even have token boards to mark their acheivement. If the structure of the clan leadership has been disrupted so many times, why do they have the infrastructure or unity of thought to offer this sort of reward to all the clan members? Even the ones who are completely against the war with OT and want peace? Who actualy gives out these boards and who supports them? They have to be made by somebody.

Nyadach you might want to try and buzz around and point people in this direction to talk about this. As with the Neutral Manifesto not alot of people seem to want to get involved.

[Nyadach]

Nyadach you might want to try and buzz around and point people in this direction to talk about this. As with the Neutral Manifesto not alot of people seem to want to get involved.

Good idea! doing so

[Yarko]

Some nice ideas, but as has been said before, not something you can compel. The ICC lease of 28708 recognizes Omni-Tek alone as the superior governing body of Rubi-Ka. Any personnel, not affiliated with either Omni-Tek or the Council of Truth (the latter only as long as the Tir accord was valid) is considered under Omni-Tek contract and subject to Omni-Tek law. All terraformed areas on the planet are under complete Omni-Tek control and subject to the ICC lease.
Ever since the annulment of the Tir accord, the status of even the Clans and the area’s under their control is vague. The only reason why Omni-Tek hasn’t enforced its laws in Clan territory is the vast military power up in the north. A military power we lack, so that is not a factor we can consider if we want to impose our point of view.

Does anyone remember how Newland City came to be neutral? It was granted neutral status by the first Council of Truth, in an addendum to the Tir accord. Since the Tir accord was annulled, what keeps the Clans from claiming Newland City back? Probably because reclaiming it would greatly disturb the power balance and result in hostilities no one wants at this moment. Nevertheless, it nicely demonstrates the precarious situation we are in. The moment either the Clans or Omni-Tek descide that enough is enough, you can wave goodbye to independence, or whatever you want to call it, and there’s nothing we, or the ICC, can do about that.

One thing everyone seems to forget is that the factions and the ICC will never accept a unilateral imposition of any kind of declaration, unless it satisfies one all-important need: the fact that we won’t be a threat to any of them and to their war efforts. None of the rambling I’ve seen so far takes this into consideration and I have yet to see someone proposing how to solve this issue. Yet, without it, all words are hollow and without significance and such kind of a manifesto is useless and a waste of time.

[Berael]

I think its better to look at it like this: these are tenants we hold to be important to us and our lively hood, if they are breached on a massive scale we will fight to maintain them. There are twenty thousand neutrals on Rubi-Ka. If we decided to fight against one side for attacking us we -will- tip the balance of power. This is also supported by the ICC who deployed troops specificaly to protect neutrals from the escalating conflict between the sides in 29476.

Currently we are not a threat to anybody's war. We don't mine notum in any sort of heavy quantity, and even if we did we would still have to sell it to OT for distribution or it would never get off world. We aren't engaged, as a people, in any sort of large millitary operations against anybody. We just want to be left to our own devices and solve our own problems.

[Psikie]

All this is great rhetoric, but unless the manifesto is ratified and RECOGNIZED by ICC and OT it's all here say.
With that out of the way then we would need the next step being a government to regulate neutral territories, o and we would need actual neutral land to govern. Not just space that OT doesn't bother putting cities and gaurds in. Since OT owns the planet any neutral government really needs to deal with them directly if possible. Although I can't see why OT holding all the cards would fold for neutrals sake. We can't really take anything from OT legally as they have all the legal rights to the planet. It just happens that by neutrals being active it's one less area that is under clan influence. Meaning one less area they have to police. We are cheap labor to them in this aspect. I don't see an easy fix to this or if one is possible as long as OT owns everything. Legally the clans don't exist. But since legality is appearantly subjective to the sentinels, maybe we can be a little subjective in owning some actual property for the neutral government to govern. Then subjectively ratify the manifesto with or without OT and ICC approval/ sanction.
I don't know sounds like a challenge, and being neutrals we love a challenge.

[Praecautus]

Hmm, if my information is correct then Omni-Tek don't really own all of Rubi-Ka anymore. The ICC has allowed the sale of land plots to various groups. I don't know how this will all stand once Omni-Tek's lease on Rubi-Ka expires, it could be a legal minefield, but I think we should be in a position to protect our interests when this happens. If we can speak with a unified voice then we would have more say once the lease expires. Having some sort of basic ideal some/all of us can stand behind when that day arrives can only strengthen our position.

[Berael]

Psikie, to go over this once again:

A Manifesto is not a legal document, its not something to be enforced by police or governments. A Manifesto is a document that need no enforcement because people adopt it for their own because they like the ideas or they recognize that it represents them. This is a statement of ideology, not a statement of law.

Also neutrals do have neutral government: The Newland Council and the soon to be Borealis Council. Are they unified? Do they have a stated goal or ideology? No. Than again, they don't need to, but most neutrals don't hold up to a stated goal or ideoly, even staying out of the way. City States around the universe often don't have a goal either than to provide services for its citizens.

We also arn't "cheap labor" because OT doesn't have a monopoly on notum mining since the start of the notum wars, only on distribution. Everybody who mines notum must sell to Omni-Tek but OT must buy the notum at the price set by the ICC.

[Yarko]

A Manifesto is not a legal document, its not something to be enforced by police or governments. A Manifesto is a document that need no enforcement because people adopt it for their own because they like the ideas or they recognize that it represents them. This is a statement of ideology, not a statement of law.

It doesn’t make the slightest difference whether a manifesto is a legal document or not, or whether it has to be enforced or not. There still is more then one party on Rubi-Ka. If the other parties don’t recognize it, a manifesto is a useless scrap of paper.

[Praecautus]

Then the next step would be to try and gather support from other groups who are on Rubi-Ka or off planet? Newland was once recognised in the Tir accord, we could do it again surely?

Peregrinus uploads copies of the Newland and Borealis manifestos to his PDA and begins to transmit

[Berael]

Not everybody has to recognize a manifesto for it to be pertinant and worth while, (i.e. it doesn't have to be ratified) but the stated purpose of the manifesto has to line up with what it is trying to represent.

[Psikie]

The right to mine notum doesn't constitute ownership of the land. There are plenty of Companies on good old terra firma that mine minerals or drill oil or use natural resources (fish,lumber, wildlife, etc) but that in no way grants those companies ownership of sovereign land~

Just because ICC says you must allow other interests to mine notum for profit, that doesn't change the fact that OT "terror-formed" and "owns" the planet. When all bets are off OT will still be standing, I for one would push for OT recognition in all this. It's the safest course of action. In my opinion~