On the other hand, maybe I will switch to Neocron

[Brad, STL/MO]

I just spent some time browsing around on the Neocron forums. (Reading the web takes less concentration than playing, and I've got a massive toothache.) And I may have found two good reasons to switch from AO to Neocron, when the dowloadable public beta hits in a couple of weeks.

The less important one is that it has working tradeskills. Not only that, but using them raises your primary stats, especially dexterity, which means you can use trade skills to become better at combat. In fact, from what people are saying on the forums, at low character levels spending time repairing found guns actually levels you up faster than fighting with newbie weapons does.

But the more important one is here.

[__________Maxtor 1-7]

LOL, hate to tell you, but tons of l33t d00ds will still get their parents to buy the game for them and be able to play, unless they put more effort than its worth on a screening process.

[cold]

18+ ? And that's gonna work ? hehhaha

[Brad, STL/MO]

Of course you're right. But consider this: they only have to weed out the obvious 10 to 14 year olds to make me happy. Oh, and to be able to say to parents, "You don't want your kids exposed to this? Then keep them out of our MA rated game, moron."

[__________Maxtor 1-7]

Hehe, best of luck to them then, they will need a lot of adults to play that so they can counter the lack of income from kids, though.

[secondkenlon]

I've been trying to play Beta 4.

Ick. Ick ick ick ick ick.

Hunting (and getting slaughtered by) spiders, rats, and flies (!) is *not* fun.

And why do we have to start out with stupid knives?

Being a weak gimp *sucks*!

[Brad, STL/MO]

I couldn't even get into beta4, kept having way too much bad luck finding a download site. Decided to give up and wait until after this weekend, when they're setting up the offical download mirrors for the English version.

Judging by the off-line demo, though, compared to AO, the user interface sucks. A lot. And yeah, I'm hearing on their forums that the first couple of "levels" up are insanely slow, boring, and painful. And the backstory is 99% pure ripoff of Judge Dredd. And while I'm willing to buy that armor doesn't show up over your clothing because everyone is wearing it under their clothes, I'm not willing to buy that about helmets. And in-game chat is painful to use and not 3rd-party extensible. And as a matter of personal preference, I'm not fond of the FPS combat model, where I have to do all the fighting for my character.

But the graphics look better, the city designs look more plausible, you don't have to zone to go into or out of a shop, people and animals are solid, not gaseous objects, it has working trade skills, it has a better hacking interface, and it has an MA rating. Oh yeah, and it doesn't have Funcom's "customer service" department (a phrase I insist on putting in quotes when it comes to Funcom). Oh, and I'm told it has real, plausible, affordable, and useful vehicles.

I won't have 10 months of online friends if I switch to Neocron. But my IRL friends here in town are waiting and salivating for Neocron, and I have had zero luck interesting them in AO, because they say they've heard too many bad things about it. Oh, and they also prefer Neocron because unlike me, they prefer the FPS combat interface.

This is not going to be an easy decision for me.

[MartekO]

Originally posted by Brad, STL/MO
people and animals are solid, not gaseous objects

Great! So in Neocron players can grief by blocking things like doors and entry-ways with their bodies? That's a reason why bodies are "gaseous" in AO, to prevent that type of griefing.

Runs full-screen only, with alt-tab disabled. One character per server. Two more reasons I am not salivating over it.

Martek

[Gridfan]

Um. last I checked AO was and IS a 18+ game. *shrug*

[Brad, STL/MO]

Yes, in Neocron, people can block doors and merchants and stuff. It's called "standing in line." Can you push past them? Yes, if you're stronger. Or, for that matter, if they don't have their Law Enforcement chip in, you can just kill them.

(Explanation: The LE chip is how Neocron handles PvP vs safe. If you have an LE chip in, no player can attack you - but it takes higher skill levels to equip weapons or armor. Also, after you've committed a certain number of "crimes," like griefing merchants or guards, you can no longer wear an LE chip.)

I discovered character opacity in a funny way. I was talking to one of the "CopBot" NPCs in the demo. When we got done, I didn't move out of the way ... and was in exactly the right spot in front of him, so when the CopBot started walking, he just effortlessly pushed me along in front of him. From then on, I noticed that any time you "brush up against" a PC or NPC while moving, both get jostled. Much more realistic. I, for one, am tired of zoning out of Fair Trade and finding myself completely submersed in an atrox. Or using the mission booths, and having some engineer's slayerdroid swallow me like Jonah.

I asked about windowed mode, and they told me that beta4 does let you run windowed, but only 800x600. I'm still waiting to see (or hear) if that'll be improved in beta5.

And no, Gridfan, you're making the same mistake I did in an earlier thread. AO has a Teen (13+) rating from the ESRB.

[Gridfan]

13+ Um. that sure explains the anarchy (lol) on the forums these days.

[MartekO]

Originally posted by Brad, STL/MO
I asked about windowed mode, and they told me that beta4 does let you run windowed, but only 800x600. I'm still waiting to see (or hear) if that'll be improved in beta5.

I took it from their FAQ that it was intended that you had to run fullscreen and no alt-tabbing; as a way of "discouraging" 3rd party utility usage. The current state of beta is no matter; it's what the actual final intention is - and they seems pretty clear on that. Perhaps that will change (as so many things in the MMORPG world seem to do).

Cheers,
Martek

[Aqua]

Originally posted by Brad, STL/MO
Yes, in Neocron, people can block doors and merchants and stuff. It's called "standing in line." Can you push past them? Yes, if you're stronger. Or, for that matter, if they don't have their Law Enforcement chip in, you can just kill them.

(Explanation: The LE chip is how Neocron handles PvP vs safe. If you have an LE chip in, no player can attack you - but it takes higher skill levels to equip weapons or armor. Also, after you've committed a certain number of "crimes," like griefing merchants or guards, you can no longer wear an LE chip.)

I discovered character opacity in a funny way. I was talking to one of the "CopBot" NPCs in the demo. When we got done, I didn't move out of the way ... and was in exactly the right spot in front of him, so when the CopBot started walking, he just effortlessly pushed me along in front of him. From then on, I noticed that any time you "brush up against" a PC or NPC while moving, both get jostled. Much more realistic. I, for one, am tired of zoning out of Fair Trade and finding myself completely submersed in an atrox. Or using the mission booths, and having some engineer's slayerdroid swallow me like Jonah.

I asked about windowed mode, and they told me that beta4 does let you run windowed, but only 800x600. I'm still waiting to see (or hear) if that'll be improved in beta5.

And no, Gridfan, you're making the same mistake I did in an earlier thread. AO has a Teen (13+) rating from the ESRB.

I am wanting to try neocron, hope you are right about the english mirrors going up this weekend. I am also glad to see that window mode might be an option at least one they are trying.

~aqua

[_____________Azahlin]

I downloaded the beta4 a few days ago and I have to say its much more fun then ao. The good thing is that u dont have to PvP, u can kep your chip and no one can attack u lol and even more beter is that actually it's free cause its the beta phase. Maybe I gonna play it till shadowbane comes out but I am done with ao.
If I hear the word mission i get a bad feeling in my tummy and its nearly as bad as it was when u said Ragefire to me during my EQ times. AAARRRGHH who else did a 80 hour camp here too?
I am off to neocron ;-P
cya guys

[______________Danjaq]

Well, I'll admit to checking it out last night.

My first impression was that, visually, it blew AO away. I actually felt like I was in Bladerunner... just gorgeous (if you find a gritty, futuristic China town gorgeous ) This is one dirty city... AO feels very clean and aneceptic (sp?) in comparison. By far the best graphics I've seen for this genre.

The character models I was less than thrilled with. Not too much variation here as everyone looks human and its hard to tell classes apart (nothing like Atrox or nanogimp here). I also didn't like that you couldn't see what armor people are wearing. Bullet-proof vests and such I shouldn't be able to see, but gloves and helmets, yes. Also, the skins weren't as good as they could have been. Maybe this was a strategic decision to help lower the frame rate. If so, I'm fine with it, as the game ran smoothe as silk with no graphical slowdowns whatsoever.

Next, I was surprised to see full nudity in the strip joints and also swearing by the NPC's. The nudity was cool and fit the cyberpunk theme. The swearing seemed forced, like, "Hey, look at me! I'm an NPC and I'm swearing!" Not to say NPC shouldn't swear, I just would have prefered they do it in a better way.

As for the user-interface - I hated it. It is very difficult to communicate with other people, and this should be the most important part. I'm an EQ veteran and am relatively experienced with AO and other MMORPG's, but for the life of me, I could not figure out how to form a team with another person. And there was no help on this major point in the faq or the manual (beta, I know). From what I've seen there is no friends list (?!?). Also, emotes are automated. What this means is that if you are talking to someone and say "No," your character will shake his head no and wave his hand dissmissively. This is cool at first but it can lead to strange results. For instance, try to berate someone by telling them it's "not cool to pick on newbies," and your character hears "cool" and does this excited fist pumping gesture. Sort of ruins the point of what I was saying. Another side effect is that traditional emotes are removed (or nobody has a clue how to use them). No more /dance, or in AO, /pulp. This is a real bummer as the clubs have dancing NPC's, both dressed and undressed, and it would be cool to go boogie with them.

I think my biggest problem with the game is that I do not like the way character stats are. I'm not a big believer in the "open" system of character development where every class/profession can use any gun (AO does this, I know). I for one like huge differences between classes and professions - differences that make diverse teaming beneficial. There seemed to be very little if any difference between the professions in this game. Also, the spells were sorely lacking. It pretty much boils down to damage spells and heal spells. I like cool effects - like crowd control, shape-shifting, teleporting, buffs, etc. Maybe I just didn't find the right spells, but based on Neocron's website, I don't think they are in the game. Also, as XP is awarded based on how much damage you do to a mob, healers have very little incentive to heal other players.

Next, interactions with NPC's are all scripted. You choose from a series of responses ala Terminator. I hated this, but I can see some people liking it. I enjoy having to pry information out of NPC's by actually saying to them what I want to say. Not just clicking on a response someone else thought I'd say.

All in all, I liked parts of what I saw and disliked other parts. I just wished AO had the graphics and gritty cyberpunk feel of this game. From what I've seen, I'd recommend AO over Neocron purely because of the class differentiation and the emphasis on teaming. Nothing is more fun than a balanced team eating up mobs that would stomp you out individually.

[MORB]

I tried neocron, and I'm already as fed up with it as I am with AO.

I just understood what I grown up to hate: the gameplay turned into a bunch of numbers. I'm sick of having to add buffs, items and everything up in order to get those stupid 3 points of something in order to be able to use my new nano so that...
Some will say "hey, it's a rpg". Well, those numbers, skills and levels come from pen and paper games. The number there served as the physical reality that made it so a world exisitng only through role-playing and description could exist and keep some coherency.
In a computer RPG (and expecially in a mmorpg), the world is fully described and the physics are simulated directly by the computer. So, there's no need to focus so much on those numbers, skills and such. There should be no such thing as all-or-nothing ability to use a weapon based on a skill. You end up having the players count every point of every skill to squeeze in their weapons.
But, as in current mmorpgs, the world is static and thus utterly boring, the number crunching is all that is left.

Of course, Neocron suffers exactly the same problem with numbers being everywhere and making most of your day to day gameplay.

I also dislike the neocron community. The last time I played, the chat was cluttered with people talking in caps and begging for other to buy/sell them some common "must-have" items.

I just hope that one day a mmorpg will achieve to bring more gameplay than a numerical puzzle where you have to assemble various gear in the proper order on your character, and then go kill mindless and uninteresting creatures to try your char out...

http://www.progressquest.com/

[______________Martov]

When player opinion is this mixed I generally take it as a sign to steer clear.

The game might have some high points, but if the interface sucks, I'm running scared. Interface is one of the most essential parts of any game.

Crap graphics I can live with though.

[______________Danjaq]

Just played it again.

Wow. That game sucks. It has waaaay too many problems than are possible to fix by its launch date (next month!!).

The AI is the absolute hands down worst I have ever seen in any game. Ever. You can shoot a monster and hit it like 5 times and get it down to half health before it will finally shoot back. Meanwhile his buddy just stands there and watches. Then, if you run around a corner, it will stay where it was. You can rest up and then come back and kill it. What a friggen joke.

And I was right about the spells. Its just damage and heal spells. Might as well carry a gun and use a med kit.

[trigeminal]

played beta4 neocron for a day or two. Hate to break it to you but it sucks hard. I urge you to try it. I was pumped to try it. I was also disappointed.

Sure it is beta but it is just about done.

Personally, I'm gonna try AC2 or Shadowbane.

Shadowbane is real PvP. None of this stand around a square and wait for someone to step into it.