Punishing success

[_________Anisotropic]

i've noticed a growing trend with funcom and their continual tweaking.
their latest patch has turned out to be disappointing in too many ways, for me to remain silent anymore.
i'm noticing a very very ugly trend, with each new patch, funcom has been punishing successful and intelligent players, and also hurting legit tatics, all in the name of "fairness"
some things that displease me
1. agents need their range back. I do not have an agent character, but part of being an agent is having long range. agents worked hard to get that range, to punish them and make them melee characters defeats the purpose of having a sniper rifle.
2. same thing with NT's. NT's have had their range reduced to uselessness. . the whole POINT of being an NT is to be a long range artillery, NT's have very weak HP, and very weak armour. there are no BUFF's for INT and PYSCHIC, . which are the two strongest attributes of an NT, NT's can not get buffed into Nano armour. it takes a LOT of effort to make a really good NT character. and now their biggest strong point has been Nerfed to nothingness, again in the name of "fairness" frankly this game isn't supposed to be fair. the title itself "ANARCY" online is a fair indication of that. Now i know why they nerfed range on nt's. 1, for pvp reasons, and 2, because they could nuke certain plants from very far away without getting hit. the First reason i will address later. the second reason to me isnt' a valid reason to nerf range on Nt's. . Yes NT's could Nuke plants from far away, but it takes a great deal of care to do so. typically surrounding those plants were very Mean mob's with large aggro ranges. it took planning and thought to hit those plants,. it was FUN to set up proper tactics to do so, funcom needs to understand that people enjoy challenges, particularly those that invole stratgy, and planning, and proper leadership. If funcom Really felt this was exploiting, they need to rethink this. instead of nefing NT's, they could have made the plants hit farther, it would have "fixed' the problem, and not annoyed so many people.. I found that going after plants was a lot more exicting then sitting at one of the Mob camps and pulling and nuking green's. going after the plants was certainly more risky. but now i can't even do that anymore. I have been punished for playing smart,, and punished for working to get my range and power up high.

NT's are physically slow, both in casting nukes, and in physicalness, we have low HP and low AC. we can't run fast. all we had going for us was great range, and powerfull slow nukes. we are completely dependent on other classes both doc's tanks and even MP's who buff our MC. missions are absurdly hard for us without extra people. while it is possible to calm and nuke and calm and nuke through a mission, it's very tedious.and very expensive. I no longer bother with missions unless i get a group. and this is for SOLO missions, which by definition should be doeable by one person, but aren't because the mob's have way to many hp's... why do grey mob's have 2-5 times the hp i do?

missions are now worse.. why can't I blitz a mission? why do i have to be punished for blitzing a mission? the mission doesn't say "go kill everything there and get the item". i did not expect to see this "fix" in the current patch. funcom acts like blitzing a mission is an easy thing.. it ISN"T that easy!.but now i can't get the reward if i get aggroed in a mission?! i guess it's back to letting my agent friend sneak them again. i expect funcom to punish this soon too. shame on me for being clever, in a NON explotive way. by making funcom FORCE us to do missions their way only, they are punishing creativity, inguentity, and skill.. I liked doing both.. blizting a mission, and getting a group to go through, now my choice has been limited. Tokens have become a joke, they are impossible to get in any kind of volume at high levels, so thats another thing i Don't have to look forward to. If people want to "farm" for tokens, they should be able to. Just because Players do things that Funcom didn't expect, isn't reason enough to stop them, not including obvious exploits, which should be stopped.<funcom Did fix missions but i left this in anyway as it has other points>

Funcom needs to realize that the driving force of success is competition, and that competition is fun, to punish success, is to eliminate competition, to eliminate competition is to eliminate any drive to play this game. Right now i have very little drive to play, to me it is turning into a 3d chat program.

PVP, i think that funcom's changes to pvp were a step in the wrong direction, once again an artifical limitation has been implemented to punish those that hit a bit harder and slower, ie NT"s. I don't think that this has been completely thought through, while NT's will no longer be able to kill in one shot, melee people, those that hit fast and for weaker hits, will be able to kill a whole heck of a lot better now. given how weak nt's are physically, they are now at a disadvantage. "artifical" limitations do not work. i propose another solution. I propose that everyone's HP is multipled by a factor of 2 to 4. I propose that Player Characters, and NPC's of simliar lvl have very simlar number of HP's (with exceptions to odd mob's n' so forth).. it has never made sense to me that this GREY "clan VIrus builder" has 4 times the number of hp's i do If all player characters had similarly increased HP that NPC's do, then PVP would fix itself. you wouldn't have to have this bizaare 40% cap. Slow nukers wouldn't be able to kill in one shot, for the most part. and they would at least get a chance for a second hit. The cap doesn't make sense, a LVL 200 ANYTHING *SHOULD* be able to kill a lvl 75 in one shot, what REALLY should be fixed is that dang grid in 2ho, STick a 75% field around it, BOOT grid campers, those are exploiters, Outside of exploiters, people who get killed in 0% zones have NO RIGHT to complain. Most of these people are in guilds, and will form parties to erradicate consitant party killers. Heck that's something FUN to do, for funcom to intervene because some people "can't handle it" isn't right, this game is about competition, not "fairness", hence the name "ANARCY online"

I really think a Flat acrosst he board 2-4x increase in Hitpoints of everyone will solve a LOT of problems, AND keep the game fun and competitive, RANGE has to be brought back, both for snipers/agents, and NT's, these characters are supposed to shoot from afar, YES people can get sniped in a few shots without getting seen, . to me thats signficantly more realistic. reducing pvp to nothing more then "rolling dice" destroys tatic's and gets rid of Fun.. in particular for the real pvp people, the one's that go to 0% zones and set up ambushes. grid campers don't count, . people that camp suppresion zones dont' count either, the game should NOT be altered for this handful of people, Nerfing range because people camped the grid from long range is plain wrong. It hurt all the people that used ranged tatics in more legit situations., this game is slowly getting reduced to tedium, tanking and slowly widdling away a mob's super high hp doesn't require a lot of skill, It was a lot more fun for people to have choices in their style of combat. Increasing everyone's HP's will solve PVP issues, and remove some of the dependencies currently held on docs. A group SHOULD be able to go after orange mobs or red mobs without a doctor. People WILL gain levels, no matter what, to remove tactics from leveling, makes it more boring, but people will still level, funcom underestimates the drive behind the average gamer.

on a last note, i heard that engineers can no longer control pets from the safty of their aircraft. ok i must admit it is a *bit* lame to attack critters from an airplane. on the other hand i haven't seen too many super high lvl engineers either. a better fix would have been to simply make it so that you can't get xp while in an airplane, OR not even worry about the problem in the first place. after all the whole point of being an engineer is to have your Killer
robot kill things for you.. doing so from the safty of an aircraft is just an extension of that, as far as i'm concerned. Before Funcom alters a game in anyway, they have to ask themselves if they are punishing creative game play, and success, or if it's an actual exploit, so far i've mostly seen funcom punish creative game play,. I think if funcom had a staff of about 30 all time game players, at various lvl's, AND with about 5-20% of their IP completely wasted(to represent a more realistic view of actual players in the game), they would have a better understanding of what their Changes entail. one last thing i would like to see fixed, the surgery clinc machiens need to buff treatment by 200, at least for people over lvl 100, Dumping IP into treatment is prohibativly expensive. while a 100 increase in treatment is pefectly fine for a low level, at higher level's 100 is nearly useless. it's very easy for a lowlevel to buff into a high quality implant, but nearly impossible now for a high level to buff into a simiarly high implant, or heck even one for their own level. the Second ability requirement on high end implants is meangingless, when the real dependency is on the treatment level. to me this is just another punishment for being successfull. Funcom didn't expect people to Buff into "anything", but a few people spent a great deal of time.effort. and money. to buff into very high end equipment. and those people got punished for their efforts.
Agents, rifles, NT's. Range, and NT's pillows are just some examples. oh and Doc's, they dont' have Range anymore just like the NT's, and now that monsters aggro the heck out of them, playing a doc is hard, i actually don't mind that doc's get aggroed, IF they had their orginal range still, but they don't. so they end up tanking now. funcom i think wants us to always play with a dedicated tank. I think we should have more choices then that.
oh yah, social armour, *i* like fighting in my bikini!, yah it's not realistic, but it's fun!

Ok my dream list, these are somethings i would LOVE to see, spefically related to trade, and missions Trading, Throw away the current Trade channel, it's cumbersome tedious and annoying. Instead set up a system where people can LIST items they currently have for sale, into a data base, and then have it where people can look up items currently being offered for sale.
have it so that it's sorted by type, and quality level, for example have catogories "armor" "Guns" "jewlery" "Gems" just for example, then have links for ranges of quality levels 10-30 30-50 50-70 etc., then list the items for sale, The price the seller is asking, a link to contact them, AND a link for OTHER items that person is selling, have it so that guilds can form STORES to sell things.. ALso levy a Light Listing fee, to discourage junk , , but this shouldn't be overly punitative, people can list junk if they want to, it just won't sell you see? this would really add a lot of fun to the game, and give guilds something to do. ie COMPETE with other guilds for selling stuff. the current Trade channel is a scrolling pain and frankly boring, people shouldn't have to spend hours posting stuff to trade channel. Should also have a catagory for "services" ie nano programming. Buffing. "underground" stuff too.. would add a more fun element to the game. i would love to see a guild advertising Extermination and hit services in a data base.

You guys have a great game!, now quit messing it up!

(end very lenghty letter now)
Anisotropic 113 NT and staying there till mai catches up
feel free to email me
washu@hiwaay.net

[__________NicholaSix]

HP increase. I've made the same suggestion many times. Instead of having 2 different combat systems, have one that is balanced for PVP and PVM. Doing this would instantly balance the soldier class to other players. Mobs could be made more challenging by giving them the same specials players have and having them use them.

[______________Nietya]

Maybe if we, as a player base, stopped b*tching and whining to Funcom to make everything fair and balance everything out, they'd stay true to what they had in mind for their game.

Perhaps those of us that understand that PvP SHOULDN'T be balanced in a 1v1 setting with every class ought to be more vocal.

-Nietya

[____________Nintauri]

Originally posted by Anisotropic
Yes NT's could Nuke plants from far away, but it takes a great deal of care to do so. typically surrounding those plants were very Mean mob's with large aggro ranges. it took planning and thought to hit those plants,. it was FUN to set up proper tactics to do so, funcom needs to understand that people enjoy challenges, particularly those that invole stratgy, and planning, and proper leadership.

I agree with you... Range should not have been nerfed. A better way to stop this kind of exploitation would have been to make Nano Resist based on range to target. In other words, take a statinary object like a plant and give that MoB a higher nano Resist making it so a caster class would need to get into its range or very near it to effectively land a NF on it.

This would also effect your ability to modify the NR of many MoB's to a more balanced level based on the range to target factor.

Just my two credits.

[cold]

... I think this game is too easy. I've been playing for a few hours a day for a week, and I'm level 10 already. Heck, I'm used to games where it takes bl**dy ages to get to such a level. Also keep in mind that there's a 4-year story coming up. What's going to happen to that when everyone reaches level 100+ in just a few months ? As for balancing, why should every class be balanced ? If you want to play a doctor, then play a doctor and go help others. But don't expect that a doctor can be as effective as a soldier in combat, they really aren't meant to be.

Above all, it's about the story, not about who's the first to reach level 200.

Yes, some things could have been solved in a better way, but I believe Funcom is right in making things harder.

[_________Anisotropic]

Originally posted by reality
... I think this game is too easy. I've been playing for a few hours a day for a week, and I'm level 10 already. Heck, I'm used to games where it takes bl**dy ages to get to such a level. Also keep in mind that there's a 4-year story coming up. What's going to happen to that when everyone reaches level 100+ in just a few months ? As for balancing, why should every class be balanced ? If you want to play a doctor, then play a doctor and go help others. But don't expect that a doctor can be as effective as a soldier in combat, they really aren't meant to be.

Above all, it's about the story, not about who's the first to reach level 200.

Yes, some things could have been solved in a better way, but I believe Funcom is right in making things harder.

i don't think you quite understand what i'm trying to say, i dont' MIND it being "harder" i MIND it being reduced to tedium, as for players reaching high levels, So what of them? if they wish to reach high levels, let them, trust me it gets a harder past level 10, you know not of what your talking about at such low levels. at the higher levels these "tweaks " that have been imposed are a pain in the rear. When *I* get higher in level i simply plan on creating another character, of a different class, i actually have a few already,
as for balance i also think you missed my point, . i said this game ISN"T FAIR and it ISN"T SUPPOSED TO BE FAIR/balanced, all the characters should NOT be reduced to/ or forced to use all the same tactics. i completely agree with you! docs shouldn't be as effective in combat as soliders, . please read my post fully before replying to it

my solution is to simply increase EVERYONE's hitpoints. not jsut NT's. but EVERYONE's.. basically make it so that your AVERAGE NPC Has the same in stat's as your AVERAGE PC, this would solve problems of PVP as well as the tremendous depedencies on docs' at higher levels.
my idea of making a game "harder" is not increaseing mob hitpoints, that has more of an efffect of making the game LONGER.
a FEW patches ago, they made mob's hit as hard as PC's. BUT they forgot to reduce the HP's of the mob's. it would have worked had they made mob's with less HP,. thou PVP still would be too quick, the best solution i see is to increase people's HP's, and get rid of the bizaare pvp patch that is now inplace

[_________Anisotropic]

Originally posted by Nintauri


I agree with you... Range should not have been nerfed. A better way to stop this kind of exploitation would have been to make Nano Resist based on range to target. In other words, take a statinary object like a plant and give that MoB a higher nano Resist making it so a caster class would need to get into its range or very near it to effectively land a NF on it.

This would also effect your ability to modify the NR of many MoB's to a more balanced level based on the range to target factor.

Just my two credits.

well that *can* work however people will end up just taking more time to kill the plants(thou they would be more sustiable to getting jumped as well). but remeber if it's over done it's effectivly the same thing as nerfing range. I think the best solution is simply fix the plants. maybe have em send out lil baby flying plants that attack the caster or something.. somethign creative. nerfing range certainly would have been my last choice.

[Mooks54]

Anisotropic,

I agree 100%. It is obvious that funcom likes dumb breeds vs smart breeds, and it show. Just Look at the armor in the stores. You see the armor they need all over. and none for us. You dont see them take anything away from them.

hum like minds must think alike?

Instead of rewarding weaker/smart breeds they punish us. Our armor sucks. And the health sucks. Our nukes are slow. we have no special attacks. 2 or 3 hits we die.

I guess on planet that is nano baised, the nano breed is punished!!! over and over again.


Funcom stop this constant attack on us. please. I love your game but not for much longer if this keeps up. I want to play a smart breed and have given up health to do so. Not a dumb atrox.

Now the only advanatage that I had u take away. That was the trade off : u loose the health as a breed for the extended range to protect ourself.


Why dont u just create 1 profession and 1 breed. this would make it fare and balanced. And then, you can shutdown your bussiness, which is what is going to happen if u dont fix the situation. This game is not suppose to be fare. u give up something for another.

The way things are now: A lvl 90 solider with MKIII protection and a 40 meter range will kill a lvl 200 NT everytime.

We need our range back.

And whats with the doc getting aggroed. Stop somking the funny norway stuff.

lvl 100 NT

[_____________Nakomis]

Not sure how much you read the forums, but not too long ago either Cosmik or JimSalabim or Enno or someone made mention of a suggestion like yours. They said that the reason MOB's are given so many hitpoints is that they aren't as smart as PC's. Basically, a PC has a human controlling it, so it knows when to attack, when to sneak, when to fight it out, and indeed when to run. It knows which NF's to use at the right times, and also has a certain tactical advantage over an opponent that can't think outside of it's programming. They said that was the reason they gave NPC's so many more HP, to make up for this lack of intelligence.

Catch ya planetside.

[_________Anisotropic]

Originally posted by Nakomis
Not sure how much you read the forums, but not too long ago either Cosmik or JimSalabim or Enno or someone made mention of a suggestion like yours. They said that the reason MOB's are given so many hitpoints is that they aren't as smart as PC's. Basically, a PC has a human controlling it, so it knows when to attack, when to sneak, when to fight it out, and indeed when to run. It knows which NF's to use at the right times, and also has a certain tactical advantage over an opponent that can't think outside of it's programming. They said that was the reason they gave NPC's so many more HP, to make up for this lack of intelligence.

Catch ya planetside.

well they say that, but then the mob's don't quite hit as hard either, to make up for their increased HP. so it condricts itself.
and also for a solo mission, one has to wade through dozens of such uber hp mobs, . Player HP"s need to be increased regardless. after that they can fix mob's

[______________Yazule]

not a flame.. just an observation

your agents part was 2 lines..

NT ... 2000 lines LOL

you want more hp... i hear you.. who doesnt, but that makes my enforcer buffs quite lame unless you double those.. who wants all that NUC on hp when my buff is nothing compaired to your health bar.

I think you need to play a few more classes to understand balancing issues. With the exception of range on NT's (which I feel should be 60M not 40) I think the patch was fine if you ignore all the buggs introduced.


I have a 62 NT as well as a 85 Enforcer, so I DO know about the class.. thank you please drive through

[XtroXtreme]

[

Originally posted by Nakomis
Not sure how much you read the forums, but not too long ago either Cosmik or JimSalabim or Enno or someone made mention of a suggestion like yours. They said that the reason MOB's are given so many hitpoints is that they aren't as smart as PC's. Basically, a PC has a human controlling it, so it knows when to attack, when to sneak, when to fight it out, and indeed when to run. It knows which NF's to use at the right times, and also has a certain tactical advantage over an opponent that can't think outside of it's programming. They said that was the reason they gave NPC's so many more HP, to make up for this lack of intelligence.

Catch ya planetside.

And that is a load of qualified bull****!

All tactical choices have been removed from players except which nano to cast at what time.
If you are lucky and don´t fight a root using mob you can of course run like hell for the exit door, but otherwise it is a slug feast. As a player you have to twink the character to have a reasonable chance, and it is to compensate for those that have twinked their characters into uber PvP killers that the mobs are as good as they are, not to compensate for any less intelligens. Well, in the beginning MOBS did not have so much nanos and that might be needed to compensated for with higher health, but that is no longer the case.

Concealment is more or less removed, since you brake it whenever you attack or a mob attack you.
Unless you twink your character you have less damage then mobs very sone (and mobs tend to have a lot better min damage then us).
Mobs always perfectly time timed nanos on us (we are usuly not that good at keeping count on nano duration, that we can keep it within ½sec).
Mobs can always attack you when you can attack them (so we not can use that intelligens and attack from a safe position).
We have less health then MÓBs but MOBs uses the increased damage nanos that we was given to compensate MOBs health on us.

Well the list just keep going on, and I for one get so tired whenever they take upo that intelligens point.

Somehow I feel that someone at funcom realy suffers every time we manage to defeat a MOB of same lvl and therefore have convinced the others that something has to be done to help those poor MOBS (had a DM like that when I played RPG years ago).
Well, guess what? We play the game to succed defeating those mobs. If we actualy only had 50% chance to defeat a yellow mob this game would get so darn boring that we would quit (I guess some have already done that when they could not defeat MOBs at higher lvl). 1 MOB equal to 50% succed in mission, 2 MOBs equal to 25% succeding mission, 3 MOBs equal to 12,5% succedning mission etc. If you do the matematic it needs very short missions of actual same power of MOBs compared to us for there to be any reason at all to do missions.

[_________Anisotropic]

Originally posted by Yazule
not a flame.. just an observation

your agents part was 2 lines..

NT ... 2000 lines LOL

you want more hp... i hear you.. who doesnt, but that makes my enforcer buffs quite lame unless you double those.. who wants all that NUC on hp when my buff is nothing compaired to your health bar.

I think you need to play a few more classes to understand balancing issues. With the exception of range on NT's (which I feel should be 60M not 40) I think the patch was fine if you ignore all the buggs introduced.


I have a 62 NT as well as a 85 Enforcer, so I DO know about the class.. thank you please drive through

well fine with me double the Enforcer Hp buff's and the doc one's too, , think bout it. they have halved the damage, as well as put on caps. . it has caused a lot of problems. in particulare healing is now effectivly doubled, and also they have put an artifical 40% cap on damage, thus making weaker faster hitters have an artfical advantage. . so whats the difference if they double the HP of people. or halve the damage? . pvp it's nearly the same, but without the problems currently introduced.
if you want a "balanced fair" fight, then you have to do so with a TEAM there is no such thing as balanced fair 1v1, and their shouldn't be. might as well go roll dice, or make just One class of characters

[__________d'Artagnan]

I'm just wondering why so much time is being spent on balancing PvP issues, when all along PvP was supposed to be something that isn't even required in the game.

It really does hurt the people who just want to play to do missions, socialize, form a guild, follow the story, hunt monsters with a group, buy, sell, etc, etc.

Please let it be known... not everyone plays the game for PvP.

[______________noemie]

/me frowns

'Crats feel the range crimp too!

We feel the 'smart' profession/breed armor crimp too: as a solitus 'crat i use waitt armor (Int/Psychic) and so the inability to buff in to amazing armor just does not exist. (at 50 my best pieces are QL68 - and of course u take what u can scavenge on the shopping channel - kinda like mission loot ).

This whole idea of limiting differing tactics of success and fun is exactly the problem with the current state of the bureaucrat class.

Our charms our misguidedly trying to be set up for use in PvP, but I suspect that even then they will prove useless as we can't PvP a grey CON player (unless in a team).

Our cleverness too extended to charming red CON plants way back when (< 12.5). This was *extremely* dangerous even when it worked (they still had NanoResist of 125-195%) as all the mobs it attacked became your enemy too. Over the last four patches all alternative tactics have been steadily eliminated, crippled or grossly limited. The speed up in executing nanos made things fun (12.6?), but all that fun is getting sucked out with 13.0! (Thank God AoE roots no longer root me and my pet - yesterday was laughable - the do aggro all they root tho'!)

The culprit is now what are called 'PSYCHIC' checks. (A mob's psychic is apparently level-based and type makes no distinction, e.g. even mechanical shovlets have PSYCHIC! - those spiritual shovelets... lol). This culprit is an additional check to see whether a charm can even *begin* against any given mob. Like mobs won't attack LIKE mobs... "Mobs Psychic is not less than 119"

Bottomline: You can spend all the IPs and have the best possible charm for your level and without a doubt the *very* best you can hope for is to charm an even CON mob - that's only *half* the problem - the PSYCHIC check number is always considerably lower than what an even CON mob has (by design, who knows) and...

SO: the BEST you can hope for spending all the IPs for the latest charm is to charm greys! The kicker it lasts for at most 20 real time seconds of them just standing there or the length of just two nano executions.

With 13.0 this PSYCHIC check has been extended to the Fear nano line. They are no options. My pistols unload when i zone... i drag mobs to the exit... and mission is over for all intents and purposes.

Just *two* mobs with POD two over and one over take me (at 50) and my level 60 pet out like the nothings we are. Is it just me or is the mob HATELIST got my name at the top?!? Aggroes with multiple mobs everywhere.

NEWS flash: the treatment centers now buff for 200 maximum ( at least for me at lvl50) as of 13.0 - did it tonite much to my surprise!

U r right we all compete, we all want to compete, we all strive for the best and do not expect complete and absolute fairness and balance in all things!

But tedium rules the day right now... we and fun are dying here!

Stop sacrificing the game for balance between professions!!!

Give us more options not less against mobs!!! Even CON for SOLO and red CON for TEAMS!!!

I love the games *potential* and am a 'crat for the duration, but FUN must happen or i will never know that potential.

I am usually so calm too. =)

Noemie
50th lvl clan 'crat
co-chair, True Sisters of Liberty
noemiecrat@yahoo.com

[____________Nevander]

Increasing the hitpoints of player characters won't break the tedium of chipping away on the npc's hp. What needs to be done is to _lower the hitpoints of the npc's and then make their damage fluctuate like a player's. I get hit by the same amount of damage 99% of the time from any certain monster type. Somwhere in that a higher figure will pop up, but those ocasions are very rare. What would make it interesting is having the fights a little less predictable. As it is now, I initiate a fight and then head off to get some coffee. Woot woot! Fights take too long to complete and are hella boring at times... Lower mob hitpoints, more interesting dmg scale and it would really pick up. That way a monster might hit you for a pretty low number for a while, and then land a crushing blow which would defenitely make you jump in the chair.

/Nev

[____________Nevander]

I'd just like to add that I don't know what I'm speaking about and that I'm a complete and total newbie... It never ocurred to me that my ac was high enough to make the critters hit for minimum damage. I suck!

hirr!
/Nev

[__________DemonGeist]

I basically agree with anisotropic about a lot of the things he talked about above, so when is an administrator gonna say something about these topics?

[_________Anisotropic]

Originally posted by DemonGeist
I basically agree with anisotropic about a lot of the things he talked about above, so when is an administrator gonna say something about these topics?

oh, i'm sure i'm labeled as a trouble make now =)

[_____________Virindi]

I can vouch for that =)