Exploiters, overequipping and the rest.

[________________Jabz]

I've noted that loot is more useful theese days.. Still kind of rare of course. I think that's a good thing. It -should- be hard to get or everyone would have it. Maybe if you added some more mobs that drop specific items(Say an enemy in Aegan is more likely to drop Senpai armor or whatever) Right now some mobs have extremely good loot.. I like the idea of putting more items in the shops though, not necesarily lowering their prices.

Over-equipping I wont go into - I'm one of those newer players that was under the assumption that it was a thought through part of the game.. A way to define who does more damage, or can take more hits.. Everyone wants to be stronger and I think people are supposed to be able to jerk their character up with EQ so that they can easily defeat people of their level.. So out of a PvP perspective I don't like it right now.. That might change though. I do think it's ridiculous with level 2's in armor coats spending their time at the arena.

IP reset. NO. Please. The rules are the same for everyone, you have your character, and you have the IP, learn to deal with it.
Letting people rebuild their character totally is frankly a bad idea.. The IP is supposed to symbolize who our character is(Among other things) How possible would it be ICly for a character to walk around having trained with pistols all his life and then suddenly be a master of two large swords? I think IPÅ reset would be unfair for those that bit in the sour grape and built their chars through trial and error and just bolster a population of clones, where everyone does the exact same thing.. My main is far from perfect skillwise and only over-equipped around 30% so I'm not trying to push ANYONE down.. But making the game too easy would take a lot of dynamics out of it imho

[______________Xombie]

Alot of people are forgetting something...
The changes would make Traders more desireable for PvM teams. I'll go so far as to say they'd be as desireable as Doctors, if these changes are implemented.
And in turn to a slight loss of income for the traders from ubertwink exploiters equipping far-too-high-ql guns, their Ransack Skill lines will now do something useful. The way the game is now, they might as well take ransack skills out.
You get one thing taken away, and two things given to you.

But the fact is, PvP with the twinks we have now, is absolutely absurd. It's broken and it's ****. It's not fun for most people, and is only worthwhile to those with higher level characters to twink out their lower level characters with. Does that provide a realistic world to have an mmorpg in? no.
Certainly they would need to lower mob ac/hp to compensate for the new rules, but anything that will cut down the griefers, I'm for. Level 10's have level 50 equipment, if they're new to twinking. Talk to any hardcore griefer, and they'll have something at least 7 times their level. This is a FACT. And they're able to do it without exploiting.

As long as they adjust mobs for the the new changes, then I really do not see why anyone would leave except twinks and griefers. and to them, I say good riddance.

[Wildwal]

the overequipping sceme is kinda what keeps pvp interesting.. otherwise if you go against someone above your lvl... you know your going to die..

on another note.. i have everything on my chr over equipped atleast 20 levels.. im lvl 74.. i havent been able to solo a grey no matter what weapons i use... not to mention ive never won a fight in pvp.. and yes.. ive used every kind of wep.. so bring that ip reset on

[Silver]

Way to go Funcom. I'am all for it. Good article with good ideas.

I hope these changes come soon.

[______________Wudang]

I, for one, most heartily agree with the suggested changes!

Hopefully this will also solve the minimum damage artists problems (of which I'm one as well) as the mobs get easier, and stop us from trying to super over equip for insane amounts of money (that we do not have) just to be able to compete.

I have to say, I agree with all of the suggested changes, bravo FC!

-Wudang

[_______________chynn]

I would like to preface my remarks by saying that I play a 54 omni nano NT in RK-1 and play a re-rolled 40 omni nano NT on the Test server ... so my opinions are biased by my profession.

Conversely, I hold no grudge against the shooter professions nor do I compare damage done among professions. My bias toward the NT profession is limited to those issues that directly affect my NT and his capabilities to survive missions and PvE.

I don't PvP so I feel I am not qualified to discuss any of those issues here.

So, having said all that, here goes ...

Myyrlyn said:

First of all, i like the ip reset, "everything" should be unequipped to do this.EVERYTHING. What about nano progs they learned with over-equipped items? And other things along those lines. The bug with the implant terminals allowing people to buff their treatment skill by +100 each time the hit it, stacking them, woould be resolved by reseting everything. Find a way to reimburse the nano progs or the credit equivelant.

Nano programs should not be a problem. NTs get debuffed all the time, and when that happens, we do not "lose" nano programs ... we just cannot use them until we regain enough skill to use them again. I would expect the same thing to happen whenever the "overhaul" takes place.

Solarax said:

I am totally against an IP reset of any kind, I along with most people in Rubi-Ka have made mistakes when piling IP into unused or changed skill areas, but it is this that makes each character unique.

I have to disagree with this comment because too many players in too many professions (like fixers, agents, and traders) have put IPs into items and cababilities that have been nerfed and are no longer useful (the infamous NT "dual-wield pillows" issue comes to mind almost immediately. ).

But at the same time, I have re-rolled a much better nano NT character on the Test server so I understand the point Solarax is making.

Solarax, like me, creates and upgrades his characters more conservatively than do other gamers. Some of those gamers "push" the envelope to take advantage of every opportunity (loophole?) to improve their characters' abilities and capabilities.

How much envelope "pushing" those gamers did should not be penalized because of the "overhaul", in my opinion, simply because too many normal gamers would be adversely affected by forcing them to re-roll their characters.

In other words, the few "rule benders" are getting a free ride because of the many whose characters actually got nerfed by AO gameplay changes.

Woho said:

So thumbs up from me too. As long as you really test it in depth before releasing it on the live servers

I can tell you from personal experience that Funcom is paying a lot more attention to the bug reports coming from the Test server than they used to. Is it perfect? No. Is Test better than it used to be? Much better.

If you want to ensure that your character(s) are not adversely affected by the "overhaul", then may I respectfully suggest that you create a character on the Test server and check out the "overhaul" fixes yourself ... whenever they get to Test.

Dareus said:

The overequiping rule sounds good (20%) or whatever for weapons etc. but this really needs to include DD nanos as well.

Forget it, Dareus, it ain't never gonna happen. As much as I agree with you, and I agree alot, nanos are not programmed the same way as weapons. Besides, casters get a lines of nanos, so if one level gets debuffed, we can switch to another.

I keep several "Action Bars" loaded with nanos so I can switch bars to activate backup program sets whenever I get debuffed.

And yes, I hate those ratting debuffs too.

So those are my opinions about Gaute's message of the day (MOTD). Overall, I agree with what Gaute is saying. I think Gaute (and Funcom) have a good idea here and I appreciate Gaute taking the time to present Funcom's ideas to us gamers.

Fixing the over-equipping issues is very important for the overall game even though over-equipping has a lesser impact on an NT character.

Once we all achieve "game-balance" then Funcom can "retune" missions, dungeons, static missions, etc., for the revised and balanced abilities and capabilities ... hopefully, both will happen at the same time.

Hope this helps ...

[______________Wudang]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brad, STL/MO
[B]Every single time a Trader casts Deprive Skills, puppets turn to stone?

What, are you NUTS? Are you SERIOUS?

I'm not a trader, but isn't that the point of the nano? What else do you expect it to do? Remove 1 damage point per incoming hit?

I'm glad to see Traders getting better off - I never wanted to start one because it didn't look too attractive, but now I don't have to feel too sorry for them anymore ^.^

-Wudang

[_____________Demetra]

If you haven't played a trader because they aren't too attractive, then try one out. They are actually a really neat profession, and very powerful as is. You will be surprised, my friend.

Katsuri

[_____________Barakon]

I'm not a trader, but isn't that the point of the nano? What else do you expect it to do? Remove 1 damage point per incoming hit?

I'm glad to see Traders getting better off - I never wanted to start one because it didn't look too attractive, but now I don't have to feel too sorry for them anymore ^.^

-Wudang


Sorry Wudang but you sound like a newbie, you have no clue.

pets are to pet classes like guns are to soldiers, hammers are to enforcers, dd are to NTs, etc.. neutralize the pet and they are near helpless.


Feel sorry for traders? right now they are a pretty good class(probably because they havent been nerfed to hell like agents). They can overequip weapons the easiest with deprive/ransack >allows higher QL deprive/ransack to be run, which allows big overequipping for them. ransack/deprive during real combat allows for more crits. They can do weak dd but it heals them at the same time! At highlvls they can even warp into the grid.
I like traders and i think you'll find most traders agree they would rather be left alone.

Sorry but I don't want this game messed up even more because the half the pro-nerfers don't know half the game...

[_____________Zardosz]

Here's an idea...

For all of you people that say "The forums are just a very
vocal 5% of game population":

How about the GM's, or advisors even...Attend some Clan/guild
meetings IN GAME? Get the opinions of ACTUAL PLAYERS!

I know my clan has meetings EVERY week. We often have guests
from other clans as well. I am sure that if Cosmik, or any other
GM wished to attend, you would be welcomed with open arms...

Here's to wishing,
Taohjones
Opposing Force

[______________Nietya]

I support fully everything you guys suggested...

I'd like to make one point clear though... you're going to hear a lot of people whine and complain and threaten to leave, and probably many WILL leave, but nowhere near the numbers of customers you're going to lose if you never fix this. People are getting bored of the game because they can use ql200 gear at level 120, or 100, or 80, all depending on the profession... people are avoiding PvP like the plague thanks to overequipping, and basically calling your storyline a sack of horse$hit, and that the amnesty is just a coverup for your unbalanced game... basically, there's a LOT more badness from you NOT balancing this, than from you balancing it.

So, just in case you wondered, and just to make a presence known to others who say the same thing, if you DON'T fix the balance in your game, both of the accounts that I have are going to be cancelled, and I may have to add to the 40+ complaints on the better business bureau...

I don't say that to threaten you, because I COMPLETELY support this movement/idea on your part, but if you buckle under because of the vocal minority in this game, you're going to really piss off and lose your quiet majority.

-Nietya

[____________Basilisk]

This is definitely a step in the right direction. One change I would suggest though: instead of reducing the stats on an over-euipped weapon, increase the chance of a fumble. This way, the same rule could be applied to nanos (ie. if the nanorunner's skills are lower than the nano requirements, his/her chances of fumbling increases).

A complete IP reset may be unnecessary, unless the IP's are going to be recalculated from scratch (for those that lost IP's from zone crashes, etc). Otherwise, a one-skill reset might be more fitting, since most people only have a problem with one skill. This would stop everyone from simply maxing out their character.

[____________Gurthang]

Overequiping being describd as a "fun" activity.. bah.. The only fun I can see people having is when in PvP they can kick most people's ass without much effort. Woo hoo.. you got your PvP title. Ur 1 l33t d00d! U Ownz me!

The steps to overequip:
1. Play a profession that uses any of the weapons that fall within wrangle and can use armors that have attribute requirements are are easily buffed.
2. Obtain your "l33t" gear (usually through money purchased from e-bay) or other high level guild members / friends who will give you the items at little cost. Or transfers from higher lever characters of your own.
3. Max your implants. (Obtained during step 2)
4. Obtain the NCUs for buffing (Obtained during step 2).
5. Spend some more of that e-bay money to get buffed
6. Equip / install said items.
7. Rinse and repeat every 5-10 levels.

Gosh! thats all the stuff I love to do in AO.. Most of the people who are claiming that overequiping is a "fun" and "important" part of this game are not here to role-play, be a part of the story, or just having fun exploring with others. They are mostly the miserable trash talking few who feel the insatable need to dominate everyonel for no good reason other than they find it "fun". Here's a hint.. go back to quake/unreal... you'll be much happier.


My feelings on this matter have been said over and over but what the hack..

If you don't have the skill to use a better weapon it shouldn't help you very much if at all over one that is more in keeping with your skill. The zoned approach is not the best idea since most of this computation can be easily done by the computer so a smoother approach is feasible. Maybe just take the % over equiped the item is and then scale that percentage by some amount to fit the item's improvement rate. So maybe a weapon that requires double your current skill would only do about 20% more damage than one that was equal to your current skill rather than the 50% more that it would have done in the current sysem.

[___________Ironlotus]

(Originally posted by Revalation)

"Umm, no they wont, only thing that will be dont to mobs will be reduction in aggro range... "

I love how people try to argue about an article which they either have not read in entirety or choose to ignore a line in order to further their own argument.

(Originally by Gaute)

"Reduce the fighting capabilities of monsters somewhat at mid-high levels - to make soloing more viable."

Anyways, to talk of the Trader issue:

While it is true that Wrangles will practically be worthless as a source of income for Traders, Traders MIGHT actually get the better end of the deal from the proposed changes.

Why?

If NPCs are affected by debuffs, missions will become easier for the Trader for the same reasons as to why the Trader might become a PvP nightmare.

As it is right now, debuffs are really only extremely effective vs. 2 classes: MAs and Nano classes. Being an MA myself, I can attest to the fact. When I fight any human mob, I hit for about 100 usually. When I fight a Trader, and am debuffed, my damage goes down to 50-60.
My equal level dual Native Alloy Staff Atrox Enforcer hits regularly for 250 damage. After debuffing, I do roughly the same damage.
I won't even say anything about NT, since I gave up on mine after the range reduction, but the complete disablement of all nanos if the skill reqs are not met is WRONG.

Think about it. If I try to, say, cook a dish with less ingredients than the dish calls for, it should taste worse (do less damage) than if I had the ingredients (Meeting the skill reqs), but I should still be able to cast it if I wanted to, shouldn't I (Trying it with less ingredients)?

Gaute's proposed changes lay out some good ideas on the table, but they are far from perfect. What IS good to see, though, is that FC is at least trying to ask for suggestions for major gameplay issues.

To the one who said every class can overequip:

Do all NTs have MP and Trader friends with no lives who can follow him all day and cast Masteries and Wrangles just so he can continue to use that Nano 50 QL above him, whereas weapon classes can get a buff once and use the weapon without needing to ask for the buff when it runs out?

With all that being said, I am not completely for all these changes. One change in particular I don't like is the NCU change. If you're going to scale down equipment effectiveness with skill level, at least give us the space to keep buffs running to meet the skill requirements (After all, buffs don't last forever, so overequipping will already be limited by buff duration).

[Deskclerk]

Great

1) now an engie/mp will not beable to get wrangled cast pet then terminate all them wrangles and get ac buffed and health buffed with the now saved ncu space.

[Nikki.]

Finally an official response

Now this is what I have to say after ACTUALLY thinking about this change.

IP Wipe : Its needed, plain and simple. Without IP wipes it breeds people NOT to be creative with their characters. So by not giving an IP wipe the only differences in characters is the mistakes you make. Since everyone will strive for the best template thus negating creative character creation. There should be more people using the other weapons. It wont happen though until a change is made to allow for creativeness.

Pets: This really needs more clarification. Please clearify on what commands it wont accept. Atleast this allows for some over-equiping of a pet but maybe it should be set back at a 60-70% total skill of pet rather than a full 80% as I think you meant before it becomes ineffective since it is such a drastic drop.

Overequiping: There is so much to say in this section. Most people realllllly dont understand the benifits of all of the changes this could open up.
1. Allows Funcom to balance the mid-late game play more fairly. Right now Funcom has to put soooo many limitations on us and give Mobs huge boosts. The reason for this is simple. They have to account for the over equipers. Otherwise they would run more rampent through levels than they already are. Players should NOT be at Borgs before level 100 atleast. Right now though they are because of over-equiping. Leveling Doesnt slow down till 140 and thats a shame. Once you hit 140 though you see how tuff it is. You only choice is to keep fighting the Borg equivilant creatures all the way to 200. The reason being that the higher creatuers are not worth the time to kill them compared to the next step down. So basically you are fighting borgs from level 70ish to 200. This is silly and needs over-equiping somehow checked to better differentiate between the levels. Of course this would just mean that it would be level 120ish or so to level 200 of the same creature but atleast there is more room to change.
2. Wrangles will NOT become worthless. It WILL decrease their value but will not make them ineffective. High level players will still need them but it stops extreme low levels from abusing them. Heck for a gun of 500 skill to use you can get a wrangle of 100 without being effected by the cap. This seems fair to me. Sure debuffs will become more of a headache but they will balance it out. You cant base your argument on the state of the game NOW. You have to look at which system allows for the most innovation on Funcoms part to allow us more fun.
3. I see alot of agents complaining about how nerfed they will become. Well heck maybe you are suing the WRONG rifle. I have always said that the Gluegun was an AWESOME rifle. Now a guildmate has started using it and is very impressed by the PvM side for this gun. It uses Rifle and Flingshot to equip and does chemical damage. Why dont you try other weapons and see what they have to offer. Gluegun is a MUST for an agent but only a couple has even thought to try it. Heck it was a rifle I wanted to equip on my NT but am still debate on wether I want to depend on the PvM of the Gluegun or the PvP of the Nova/Flashpoint combo. Right now Im not sure but the Gluegun is a very good option.
4. How are armor and belt items effected by this? E****ially the Trader buffs for comp lit. I dont think there is any item that has a reg of 1250 comp lit which is what you would need to make the max trader buff even usefull. How will the armor and belt items be effected. Armor could easily fall inbetween the 20% and have the effectiveness values properly placed. The problem I mostly see is in the belt items. How will they be affected and should they be given more leeway since most people just try to buff them in anyways. Make them accountable someway but also give them more breathing room than the armor and guns issue.

Exploits: You forgot to mention all accounts on same card are gone also. Why worry about exploiting when you can buy a second account put it on same card and do all your exploiting on that account while other account can benifit from it without worry.

Nano Formulas: Since we are ALWAYS affected by over-equiping why can we not upload a spell whenever we want? Heck why should we bag it and have that spell around when we could easily upload it without having any advantage over any other player. Saves space and server load since less items to account for.

Anyways I think more articles should be written IE atleast once a week so we know you are still thinking of us instead of ever 3-4 weeks :OP Just a quick note on what you are thinking and what ideas have been passed to you from us that you are considering for change.

[________________Zaal]

All for the IP reset.

I personally have two characters that I would reset. My very first adven who got nerfed a) when freedom arms were removed and b) when IP cost of stats got changed. And my NT who is a challenge to play now but wasted three levels worth of IP because of faulty item descriptions.

Most of these changes are good and I like the "effectiveness" of a weapon solution to over-equipping. I've always self buffed into my own equipment, and I think its fair to get traders to wrnagle you in as well, sure overquipping to a certain degree will still be effective but if you go to far your lack of actual skill is detrimental. Not to bring it up really but another unmentioned online game has this system set up so you break items that you aren't ready to use yet. With out the necessary knowledge it makes sense that you'd fubar somehting up.

Go for it guys.

[_____________Demetra]

Nikkidial you are so right...I think I'll just accept being nerfed, sit back and watch how traders become uber, and start using a gluegun today.

[Hildegaard]

Gaute, these are good ideas, all of them.

Thanks for explaining them and talking to us ahead of time.

I play an L62 MA on RK1, which is not my first or only character, as I've played daily since day 3 of the US release.

Yes, I currently over-equip armor. I feel that I have to in order to be competitive.

Let's look at what this means to the Martial Artist.

First, even those MA's that use weapons cannot over-equip them. Because of the bugs with the MA class, (which have been there since beta and are STILL not fixed), an MA that zones, or buffs, or even logs, with a weapon in his/her hand, will lose the ability to punch.

Therefore, we must be able to equip and un-equip any wreps we use with nothing more than self-buffs.

So much for weps.

Second, the heavy armor is necessary, under the current scheme of things for self-protection.

Losing a PvP fight in the Arena or at MMD is no big deal. Anyone with the brains of a flea saves just before going there, so dying costs you nothing more than 8 minutes of your time.

But getting jumped by another player on your way back from a mission in a 25% zone is much more serious business. You stand to lose all the XP you gained, plus all your freshly-acquired phat lewt. Now that is an PvP fight you must win, or at least escape from alive.

As long as an L57 Agent can equip a Q120 Tsak, I need to be able to wear my Q101 white OP Helmet, it's that simple.

But the beauty of Gaute's ideas here is that they will reduce everything equally. Fine, my armor protects me less, but the Agent's rifle hits for less damage. The net bottom line remains the same. And I'm happy with that.

But some of these posts here, my gawd. It would take a container ship full of cheese to go with all this whine.

Maybe we should just call Whine-1-1, and tell them we need a WAAAAAAAHmbulance

[Deskclerk]

Great

1) now an engie/mp will not beable to get wrangled cast pet then terminate all them wrangles and get ac buffed and health buffed with the now saved ncu space.

I say this because it is not fair that a nt who is limmited on ncu's due to the fact that he keeps 2 weapons in ncu slots any way. has to keep his ncu filled with mc mastery buffs in order to use his weapon while other professions get to buff up put on weapon or cast pet/robot termniante thier mastries and add any other buff they need.

2) As far as the ip whipe i would only like to see skillz that have had items nerfed refunded and not only once in this case but everytime you nerf somthing. every other missuse of ip is a mistake and you should have to live with that mistake. but over all i do not see that this will effect to much anyway.

3) Now over equiping with weapons, why make a nightmare in programing just impplement a skill check and if you have the buff runing in your ncu great it works but as soon as the buff wears off make it exactly like the nano's you can not use them period.

potential problems with this:

1) you say you will reduce the effectiveness, is this only damage? What about range? What about reload time, what about inti. time? you should not be able to us the higher gun and get same relaoad and same int if the gun is now les effective because buff wore off. and it should be the percentage of the weapons minnimum damage not the highest if your are unqualified to use a weapon then it should b the case that it from minimum not highest seems to me the more qualifed with a weapon you are the better you shoot not the other way around

2) Now with this every one will just get the high ql gun on asap and grow into it if it is only slightly reduced in efectiveness if you are going to do the reduction in efectiveness it should work out in detail that a gun that you can put on your self works better then a high ql weapon that can be buffed on.

potential benefits with this:

1) now a soldier or weapon weilder as well will have to keep the buffs on inorder to have an effective weapon. This in turn will limmit the amount of free ncu that they now have seemingly unlimited use of. They will have to waste space same as a nano user does to keep thier weapons up on effectiveness.

2) those of you who find it hard to level a trader or somone else who buffes weapons skillz will soon find you self in high demand for teams. WHY? well because now these weapons classes will have to have you in thier team with you in order to keep thier buffs on.

3) those of you who think this will eleiminate the need in the economy for traders are dead wrong because now instead of buffing a char once for them to equip a weapon they will seek you out everytime.

4) debuffs on stuff like full auto will work, or aimed shot etc. at first when i first started pvping i thought that did make a differnce but i sortly there after found out it dosent. Well it should. if someone pops off an incompt. spell it should hurt u the same way a divest or debuff to a nt or a doc is hurt.

as far as exlpoit goes there should be a seperate exploit petition that goes right to a gm for imeadiate response, if a player catches another player xploiting and wishes to turn them in and it takes 4 hours for an ark or a gm to get back to you that player is long gone and where will the proof be?