OTPC: Sentinel Attacks on 2HO

[Twistshot]

I have no idea were you are even going here. This whole statement makes about as much sense as five teats on a bull moose.

Where I am going is that it is easy to blame others for things that go wrong or mistakes that you make. This is in reference to the fact that Rubi-Ka has been marketed as a place where death is not permanet and that some one blamed that on the influx of nuts to Rubi-Ka

[Twistshot]

I don't believe I said that the Sentinels were not part of the Council at this present time. We were referring to historical points, were we not? .

No we are speaking of events only a few days old.

[joshuacrime]

You have an amazing talent to miss the obvious...At least one clan wants all other clans removed from the planet...do you think that will go down peacefully, even without OT involvement?

Missing the obvious is a contradiction in terms. If it were obvious, then the message would not have been missed. And the only clan that wants all other clans removed from the planet isn't a clan at all, it's the Dust Brigade. The Sentinels just want everyone that calls themselves a Clanner to join them, which we won't.

Well, that is, unless the Council happens to be of the same mind as the Sentinels are, but fat chance of that ever happening.

[joshuacrime]

Where I am going is that it is easy to blame others for things that go wrong or mistakes that you make. This is in reference to the fact that Rubi-Ka has been marketed as a place where death is not permanet and that some one blamed that on the influx of nuts to Rubi-Ka

Any place where death is not permanent in that sense is a Paradise. However, dying is still rather painful, and something most people avoid doing. The only people who think it's a tool to use like you do are imbalanced fools anyway, or fanatics that don't have a good track record of succeeding in terrorism. Fail to get that big Clan leader? Relax! You can have a number of tries at him. Or, fail to take that big OT base down? Relax! Don't worry about those big towers shooting you full of laser holes. Come back, and continue to party. Gas technology combined with insurance insures that nothing is permanently lost in this world. The only thing is that you have to have the forces available to make it highly impossible to succeed in taking something over, even for a brief instant.

Only we know that perma-death DOES happen here, don't we? It's just not used en masse. It's used as a political weapon.

And again, the nuts would still be just as nuts here, only they aren't really as fanatical, are they? They don't really have to lose their lives, unless it's something like perma-death, and only the most special people get that used on them. No martyr complex going on here. Can't really do that when you can't die.

[joshuacrime]

No we are speaking of events only a few days old.

Maybe you were, but you were the only one.

[Keldros]

And the only clan that wants all other clans removed from the planet isn't a clan at all, it's the Dust Brigade.

You are quite mistaken here. Why don't you consult with representatives from some other clans and see what their goals are for once, instead of spewing false statements to cover up your own lack of responsibility.

__________________________________________________
OOC: Maybe IC you're just not going to agree with anyone. Then again, maybe you as a player haven't been doing your research. Let me point this out with a strictly OOC quote.

Eco Warriors
(Radical decision-making. undecided in omni/clan conflict)
Leader: Red
Location: Aegen, Rising Sun
Background:
To ask where the Eco Warriors stand on the conflict would be the wrong question to ask. They have no stance on the conflict, as they think both the clans and Omni-Tek, and the neutrals for that matter, should leave Rubi-Ka all-together.

The Eco Warriors are an extremist group headed by an eccentric leader known as 'Red', and they are most well-known for allegedly introducing the rhino-man population to the wilds of Rubi-Ka.

To Red and the rest of the Warriors, Rubi-Ka is a sacred place, and that the occupation of the planet by Omni-Tek amounts to nothing short of sacrilege. Since the opening of the portals to the Shadow Lands, Red has only been emboldened in his struggle for the de-population of Rubi-Ka.

His argument is that the Shadow Lands are only foreshadowing what Omni-Tek will bring to Rubi-Ka: which is the literal collapse of Rubi-Ka itself.

Feelings about the CoT:
“The only chance any clanner has to change Rubi-Ka,” Red once said to the Council, “is to leave it.” The only reason the Eco Warriors are a part of the Council is because they see it as a great forum to express their belief that the only hope for Rubi-Ka is for everyone to move to another planet. The Eco Warriors also gain solace from the relationship that exists between the clans and the Redeemed, whom the Eco Warriors have grown to respect a great deal.

Attitude Towards the Other Clans:
Gaia: The Eco Warriors are obviously tied closely with Gaia, the other radical environmentalist clan. While they do not see eye-to-eye on the eventual outcome of the conflict, they both obviously agree on the conservation of the planet, though Red feels it is naive to think that one can conserve the planet while living on it and mining for notum.

Vanguard: They disagree most with the Vanguard, as they think the Vanguard clan is just trying to reap the benefits of the planet for themselves and is willing to destroy the planet in the process.

Sentinels: The Eco Warriors respect the Sentinels power and realize that if they have any chance to realize the de-population of the planet, they will need the help of Mr. Silverstone.

Terra Firma: The Eco Warriors have no time for politics, so they think that Terra Firma is wasting their time.

Pilgrims: The Eco Warriors feel that helping citizens in Rubi-Ka will only encourage people to stay on the planet. The Eco Warriors put no stock in the Pilgrims' claim of a connection with the planet, as the Eco Warriors feel no one can connect with the planet and still think it is a good idea to populate and continue to mine it.

New Dawn: The Eco Warriors want nothing to do with a diplomatic solution to the conflict as they think that a diplomatic solution will only encourage both Omni-Tek and the clans to remain on the planet and continue to destroy it.

Knights: The Eco Warriors respect the honor and loyalty of the Knights, and see them as a reasonable clan.

Unionists: The Eco Warriors feel the Unionists are a major factor in the continuation of the mining and destruction of the planet of Rubi-Ka, so they have no desire to ally with them.

also OOC: It's not unreasonable to assume that based on their goals, Eco Warriors would turn away from the Council as soon as OT left the planet. Only the Dust Brigade would help them push other clans off the planet.

[Dagget]

Well, the CoT staff demanded an explanation from Silverstone and this is what we got:

**********
To whom it may concern:

First of all, I apologize if my lack of immediate explanation, but I had some sh...<transmission interruption> to do.

I'd like to thank those who have brought this to my attention. You can rest assured that I did not authorize it personally, although there are members within my command structure who do have the authority to launch such an attack. Even though I generally advise that they don't, especially given the rather unstable situation with that gung-ho Zoro guy.

Second, I'd like to once again thank those who brought this to my attention and gave me names. I was definitely aware of a pretty big fight on the day in question. However, without the excellent reconnaissance work done by Nulion and whoever had informed him, I wouldn't know who to commend for such a bold, effective strike. Those involved will receive merits and, in some cases, promotions. The Clans could use a few more people with the guts to strike at Omni-Tek, and a few less in the hippy department.

Did I reccomend caution? Sure I did. That doesn't mean I am just going to suck it up when they come knocking at my door. Which, by the way, they did. As for the acting CEO... I couldn't care less what that hot-shot, Omni Prime lapdog thinks. If he has a problem with what my men are doing, he can come to Tir and settle it with me. Keep an eye out for a Omni-Tek fat cat waddling out of Tir with his own rifle up his <transmission interruption> that'll be their glorious, new "temporary" CEO.

War is a dirty thing, kids, and an ancient Earth military commander once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Welcome to Rubi-Ka, Nulion.

Sincerely,
Supreme Commander Simon Silverstone
**********

[Keldros]

Well, the CoT staff demanded an explanation from Silverstone and this is what we got:

**********
To whom it may concern:

First of all, I apologize if my lack of immediate explanation, but I had some sh...<transmission interruption> to do.

Isn't it inconvenient that no witnesses were available before the attack to verify that this is real justification, and not just a feeble attempt at an excuse to avoid the consequences after doing something rash and potentially damning for the CoT?

[keyya]

Where I am going is that it is easy to blame others for things that go wrong or mistakes that you make. This is in reference to the fact that Rubi-Ka has been marketed as a place where death is not permanet and that some one blamed that on the influx of nuts to Rubi-Ka

I wasn't blaming anyone, on the contrary I was saying that the Clans shouldn't be blamed for something that OT could have prevented themselfs.

[Naefen]

Maartens, well done explaining how OT is actually the one corp most likely to run the Dust Brigade. Sadly, it is just another reminder for us employees how far from any sort of knowledge you clanners have about Omni Tek.
The corporation protects its citizens they do not instigate attack on theyre own. And they do not aid in attacks on the Neutrals either.

And please Maartens, as I have continously asked several clanners these last days, what have Omni Tek`s acting CEO done witch is so wrong in your eyes? Please, you of all should be able to come up with atleast half an hour of interesting reading on that subject.
You all screamed when he received the temporary position and yelled that this would be the doom of all of us. Then, Silverstone marches in and stabs Rubi Ka in the eye. He is a clanner isnt he? Or have you decided he is a rougue clanner aswell? As you so conveniently do to all clans who act like a madman.
That question was ment for all clanners by the way. Not only Maartens though I am sure it will take a full day to read his answer.

Maartens here is another one for you. How can you not see what the Unicorns have done for this planet in modern time? They have restored our communications with the rest of the Universe damnit! How do you think we would fare if that dirty job had not been done? They are the ones who found the aliens secret landing marks in the outzones. What would have happened if they had not used all those resources to scan those most hostile areas? They did that for Rubi Ka. Not for the corp only. Im not saying they would have done it if there were no Omni Tek here but as it is....they did it for us all.
In addition they make our cities a safer place to live.

Please have a look at Mr.Dagget`s transcript from your precious Siloverstone. I know I had a fieldtrip reading it. How do you like it?

Are you telling me the clans are ruled by the CoT Maartens? I think there is a fair share of clanners who would disagree with you there. The CoT are advisors and nothing more.

I have missed you Maartens. I have total understanding for your....convenient departure when things turned ugly and its nice to see you sticking your nose up from under that stone you have been hiding. I have missed you endless driveling on the "real" state of Rubi Ka and your "complete" understanding of the corporation you so despise. Also, I missed your usual endings with insults and arrogant behaviour. Its true. I missed it all.

But let me finish this all with one simple question.
Who decides who gets to be a clanner and who has to be a Neutral?
I have through all my years on this planet NEVER heard of any incident where a joined clan opinion told a clan that they were not a clan. You cant. Anyone can become a clanner and a leader of a clan. And no one can tell a clanner what to do. No one can order a clanner what to do. You are "free" arent you?
Dont throw the Dust Brigade at me for an answer. Everyone know they have posed as both Neutral and clan. I am not really calling them clan, they are more a faction of theyre own...

So, who will decide who are clans and not? And arent deciding that sort of making decisions like the ones a corporation would make?

[joshuacrime]

You are quite mistaken here. Why don't you consult with representatives from some other clans and see what their goals are for once, instead of spewing false statements to cover up your own lack of responsibility.
__________________________________________________
OOC: Maybe IC you're just not going to agree with anyone. Then again, maybe you as a player haven't been doing your research. Let me point this out with a strictly OOC quote.

also OOC: It's not unreasonable to assume that based on their goals, Eco Warriors would turn away from the Council as soon as OT left the planet. Only the Dust Brigade would help them push other clans off the planet.

My responsibility? What does MY responsibility have to do with it? I have no power over these events.

I can also read, Keldros, and as far as I am concerned, Eco-Warriors are a non-entity. What have they done lately? Nothing. They are a spec, a morsel, a little greasespot. Are you the offspring of that other lawyer buffoon I used to cross swords with? What is the percentage of the Eco-warriors with regards to Clan size and outside support? Miniscule. They aren't noteworthy, so nice try, but adding in the 20 cents the Eco-warriors bring in to pay the 2 million credit tab that the Council pays doesn't impress me in the slightest.

Neutral, huh? You're about as neutral as the Ph level on a bottle of piss. Go and join Omni like you want to. Or rather, as a middle of the road non-starter, you will be absorbed into Omni-Tek when the rampaging bull comes pounding it's way up north. So enjoy your "neutrality" while it last. Since you are so fond of quoting Ambrose Bierce, here's one for you:

"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Ambrose Bierce (thanks, Maista!)

You are also 100% wrong about the Eco-warriors. They won't leave when OT leaves or gets booted or whatever. They will turn against whoever else is depleting Notum from the planet. Neutrals do. Clanners do. They are a bunch of granola-eating, tree-hugging, hippie fools. As a nanomage, I have a vested interest in keeping enough Notum here to sustain life for myself and my kind, but they are way overboard and extremist in their goals. Which is why, as a faction in Clan politics, they are marginalized.

OOC: As for my research abilities, I don't need any. The actions of the day fuel my responses, and if you don't like it, debate my points, but you don't, you just dismiss arguments and that, to me, is piss-poor debating.

[joshuacrime]

Isn't it inconvenient that no witnesses were available before the attack to verify that this is real justification, and not just a feeble attempt at an excuse to avoid the consequences after doing something rash and potentially damning for the CoT?

No more than your justification to attack Simon's so-called activities and assume there was no reason for it. You are biased, your comments are biased, your actions are biased and who you support is biased. Neutral, indeed.

Simon may be a bit of a windbag, but he isn't a fool. Not to mention that OT's intelligence gathering in the manner it has been occuring is nothing short of a prelude to all-out war. It's not, you say? How can anyone tell the difference? I'm sorry, but prudence demands that you at least observe enemy forces in your midst, and if you find out they are up to no good, you have the opportunity to strike them before they strike you. That's just plain good tactical sense.

Keldros, stop pretending to be neutral, ok? You're not.

[joshuacrime]

Maartens, well done explaining how OT is actually the one corp most likely to run the Dust Brigade. Sadly, it is just another reminder for us employees how far from any sort of knowledge you clanners have about Omni Tek.
The corporation protects its citizens they do not instigate attack on theyre own. And they do not aid in attacks on the Neutrals either.

That wasn't my intention, and you know it. My intention was to stuff that stupid idea Savoy has had stuck in her little pea brain for years and years and won't let go of it. The Dust Brigade is NOT a Clan organization. She refuses to let go of it, uses it to tie terrorism into Clan, and refuses to hear anything different. The quote about them being "an extremist Clan" actually came from an Omni employee who used to run a nice database site for looking up information. It did NOT come from any real impartial source, but that was my point...we all can make **** up, and make it sound plausible. I don't believe the DB is an Omni organization, but hey...I have a creative brain, too!

And please Maartens, as I have continously asked several clanners these last days, what have Omni Tek`s acting CEO done witch is so wrong in your eyes? Please, you of all should be able to come up with atleast half an hour of interesting reading on that subject.
You all screamed when he received the temporary position and yelled that this would be the doom of all of us. Then, Silverstone marches in and stabs Rubi Ka in the eye. He is a clanner isnt he? Or have you decided he is a rougue clanner aswell? As you so conveniently do to all clans who act like a madman.
That question was ment for all clanners by the way. Not only Maartens though I am sure it will take a full day to read his answer.

You are too kind. In any case, your CEO is known for military action, not for negotiation and diplomacy, which is where we were with Phillip Ross. We have gone backwards here, not forward. And for us, going backwards means war again. And Silverstone acting like a what? Madman? For retaliating against OT intelligence agents reviewing Clan defensive dispositions? I fail to see how responding to OT provocations "mad", but anything that goes against OT plans is considered mad to you, isn't it?

Maartens here is another one for you. How can you not see what the Unicorns have done for this planet in modern time? They have restored our communications with the rest of the Universe damnit! How do you think we would fare if that dirty job had not been done? They are the ones who found the aliens secret landing marks in the outzones. What would have happened if they had not used all those resources to scan those most hostile areas? They did that for Rubi Ka. Not for the corp only. Im not saying they would have done it if there were no Omni Tek here but as it is....they did it for us all.
In addition they make our cities a safer place to live.

I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with the Unicorns yet in "that way". I'm sure I will in the future, as I don't find them a friendly, warm bunch, not even to you OT's. And you are so wrong about who found the Aliens first. OT likely shot down the craft that WE investigated, but they didn't find them first on THIS planet. All OT did was try to kill them all, secure the site and sneak it off as a cover up. Only it didn't exactly work out that way. I personally killed about 20 OTAF Captains that attacked me without provocation on that particular day. So, enough revisionism already. It's beneath you. Oh, and by the way, do you have any personal knowledge of what is going on in the Outzones? Nope, and neither do I. All I have is a report from a very dubious source relaying more dubious information. If a real, neutral news organization were around and could relay it, I would be OK with believing it to be true. But I am not such a fool.

Please have a look at Mr.Dagget`s transcript from your precious Siloverstone. I know I had a fieldtrip reading it. How do you like it?

I don't have a problem with it. The explanation is clear enough. Your OTAF intelligence forces got caught in flagrante delicto, and now you whine because we retaliated? Waaaah.

Are you telling me the clans are ruled by the CoT Maartens? I think there is a fair share of clanners who would disagree with you there. The CoT are advisors and nothing more.

That's not what the law states, and I go by the law, and that law was produced by the ICC. That which the CoT does not govern, OT does. I'm OK with that.

I have missed you Maartens. I have total understanding for your....convenient departure when things turned ugly and its nice to see you sticking your nose up from under that stone you have been hiding. I have missed you endless driveling on the "real" state of Rubi Ka and your "complete" understanding of the corporation you so despise. Also, I missed your usual endings with insults and arrogant behaviour. Its true. I missed it all.

This doesn't mean we're going to be mixing bodily fluids until the wee hours of the day.

But let me finish this all with one simple question.
Who decides who gets to be a clanner and who has to be a Neutral?
I have through all my years on this planet NEVER heard of any incident where a joined clan opinion told a clan that they were not a clan. You cant. Anyone can become a clanner and a leader of a clan. And no one can tell a clanner what to do. No one can order a clanner what to do. You are "free" arent you?
Dont throw the Dust Brigade at me for an answer. Everyone know they have posed as both Neutral and clan. I am not really calling them clan, they are more a faction of theyre own...

So, who will decide who are clans and not? And arent deciding that sort of making decisions like the ones a corporation would make?

This is a philosophical question, and you hate long responses, and I'm sure you hate reading even more than that.

[Twistshot]

That wasn't my intention, and you know it. My intention was to stuff that stupid idea Savoy has had stuck in her little pea brain for years and years and won't let go of it. The Dust Brigade is NOT a Clan organization. She refuses to let go of it, uses it to tie terrorism into Clan, and refuses to hear anything different. The quote about them being "an extremist Clan" actually came from an Omni employee who used to run a nice database site for looking up information. It did NOT come from any real impartial source, but that was my point...we all can make **** up, and make it sound plausible. I don't believe the DB is an Omni organization, but hey...I have a creative brain, too!

Just as you can not let go of the idea that everyone who works for Omni-Tek is some kind of brain washed brain dead proffit mongering slime bag. Now if you will stop breathing in your own waste products you will see that she has asked for prof that the Dust Brigade was never a part of the Clans, yet no one has ever come forth with evidence, they have only said that she is full of it, acused her of being a propagandist or worse and suggesting she is some kind of sexual deviant.

[QUOTE=Joshua Crime]
That's not what the law states, and I go by the law, and that law was produced by the ICC. That which the CoT does not govern, OT does. I'm OK with that.
[/QOUTE]

No you are not, you have gone on public record of wishing to kill every man woman and child that works for Omni-Tek.

This doesn't mean we're going to be mixing bodily fluids until the wee hours of the day.

Im not even going to touch this one, havent you heard, dont ask, dont tell.

But let me finish this all with one simple question.
Who decides who gets to be a clanner and who has to be a Neutral?
I have through all my years on this planet NEVER heard of any incident where a joined clan opinion told a clan that they were not a clan. You cant. Anyone can become a clanner and a leader of a clan. And no one can tell a clanner what to do. No one can order a clanner what to do. You are "free" arent you?
Dont throw the Dust Brigade at me for an answer. Everyone know they have posed as both Neutral and clan. I am not really calling them clan, they are more a faction of theyre own...

So, who will decide who are clans and not? And arent deciding that sort of making decisions like the ones a corporation would make?

This is a philosophical question, and you hate long responses, and I'm sure you hate reading even more than that.

Actually it is a legal one, not a philosphical one. What are the LEGAL deffinitions of what makes some one a member of the Clans, a Neutral and an employee of Omni-Tek. Or is this another point on which you will launch into a rant where you call everyone a fool and spout some more garbage on how the clans are the poor innocents in this case.

You want to know who is innocent, the 12 year old child who had her brains blown out by a group of clanners on a shooting spree. She and her family had just arived on planet from a shuttle that had Not been shot down and none of them had purchased insurance yet.

[Twistshot]

Martyer, noun, 1: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion. 2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and esp. life itself for the sake of principle. 3: a great or constant sufferer.

From this you can see that while martyer often dose give up their life it is not the only way some one can become a martyer.

[Keldros]

]You are also 100% wrong about the Eco-warriors. They won't leave when OT leaves or gets booted or whatever. They will turn against whoever else is depleting Notum from the planet. Neutrals do. Clanners do.

First you tell me I'm 100% wrong, then you say (in so many words) the same thing I said.

I can give you a neuronal stimulator sometime to help alleviate this mental deficiency you seem to be suffering from.

[Vixentrox]

I go to 2HO to shoot up Omni frequently. Don't bother me one bit if other Clan personel do the same.

[joshuacrime]

Just as you can not let go of the idea that everyone who works for Omni-Tek is some kind of brain washed brain dead proffit mongering slime bag. Now if you will stop breathing in your own waste products you will see that she has asked for prof that the Dust Brigade was never a part of the Clans, yet no one has ever come forth with evidence, they have only said that she is full of it, acused her of being a propagandist or worse and suggesting she is some kind of sexual deviant.

Breathing in my own waste products...I like that one. Too bad when I go into Omni-Ent and look around, I can't even walk into the sewers because they are so toxic they would kill me if I stayed in them for too long. I'm looking around Clan cities...I don't see much waste here. As for the rest, it's a matter of convenience for Savoy (a very bright person, I might add, but her views rankle me to the bone) to accuse the Dust Brigade of being a Clan along with the rest of us, and then tell me to prove it to her that they are not. No one else is making these kinds of scurillious accusations. Yet, I have to come up with the justification defending someone else's hare-brained theories? No, that's her job. It's been a very long held belief that the DB's are funded from off-planet, likely a 3rd party that has an interest in Notum. My first guess was SBC, but it could be any number of mega-corporations like OT. Are they mercenaries for hire? Probably. What does that prove (cough, cough...Loren Warr...cough, snicker)? We can speculate all we like, but we have no definitive proof in any form as to their goals or their backers. But to sit there and say that the Dust Brigade terrorists are Clanners in the same manner as I am...no, that's not going to cut it at all, and I will rail against that kind of nonesense any time I see it.

That's not what the law states, and I go by the law, and that law was produced by the ICC. That which the CoT does not govern, OT does. I'm OK with that.

No you are not, you have gone on public record of wishing to kill every man woman and child that works for Omni-Tek.

What the hell are you smoking? Whatever it is, send some to Old Athen. It's going to make stims look like aspirin. I never said any such thing. What I said, if you would care to read instead of skim, is that OT would do this to protect it's interests here when they are clearly in the wrong about dealing with Clan. Something you said about waste products being snorted? I think we can all tell who is doing that.

Im not even going to touch this one, havent you heard, dont ask, dont tell.

Actually it is a legal one, not a philosphical one. What are the LEGAL deffinitions of what makes some one a member of the Clans, a Neutral and an employee of Omni-Tek. Or is this another point on which you will launch into a rant where you call everyone a fool and spout some more garbage on how the clans are the poor innocents in this case.

You want to know who is innocent, the 12 year old child who had her brains blown out by a group of clanners on a shooting spree. She and her family had just arived on planet from a shuttle that had Not been shot down and none of them had purchased insurance yet.

The legal definitions were laid out by the ICC. Peruse the documentation if you must, but the ICC clearly said that Clan governance would fall under the purview of the Council of Truth. Anyone else that fell out of that blanket would be subject to OT law. Just because OT dismisses that which it does not like doesn't mean that the legality of the terms aren't binding. OT is a body governed by the ICC, and it too must abide by the regulations. It doesn't, but that doesn't mean that it's not still the law.

And please, spare me the melodrama about your fictional 12 year old child and some psychotic Clanners on a rampage. That is such a wad of bologna. Again, one of my goals here is to stop the inane speculation that goes on here, and start calling opinion what it is, and factual reporting of information what it is. Or at least point a big finger at it and say that, unless you can back up your statements with fact, then you're going to get an earful from me. I neither have the time nor patience to deal with this juvenile practice of interjecting your prejudice and your opinions into statements that are for the public record and then trying to pass them off as fact. Real journalists are supposed to be able to discern fact from fiction, and report the truth, regardless of whose side might come down on the "not looking so good for you" side.

[joshuacrime]

First you tell me I'm 100% wrong, then you say (in so many words) the same thing I said.

I can give you a neuronal stimulator sometime to help alleviate this mental deficiency you seem to be suffering from.

You are 100% wrong. Making **** up to make Clan look bad to everyone is your speciality, or you trying to do it is your specialty. I'm thinking the latter is probably the case.

In any event, cogent thought has been lost for the most part on these subjects, but certainly not on my end. You may choose to pick at little bitty details that are insignificant in the overall scheme of things and point to those items and say that my logic is faulty because of it, but I don't really care. It's not important what the Eco-Warriors do, because as far as Clan politics go, they are a non-entitiy, supported by a very small minority of non-legacy Clanners and whose philosophies, were they to become the reality of our situation, would set their own destruction. Now I don't know about you, but any group that roots for it's own destruction as part of their ethos needs to really belly up to the bar and show us that they mean what they say. You know, as an example. Let's have some perma-death self-immolation protests like they did back on Old Earth. Put some OOMPH behind your ideology. As that masterful philosopher George Carlin once said, "Come on, you crusaders, let's see a little smoke! To match that fire in your belly"...

But you go right on ahead and be a lawyer like that other windbag. You know, the one that writes the softcore porno journal from that OT cheerleading squad of women and Atrox's as eunuchs. Wish I could remember the name...Handmaidens of Something or Other...more like the fellatio squad of Phillip Ross, although that target is soon to be revised.

[drgrimmy]

Wow...just when i thought clanner's couldn't get anymore blind yet another comes out from under a rock.

I don;t see How any omni in this thread have been" Making **** up"

If you would be so kind as to quit backpeddeling and make a statment you stand by i'll counter it with what i consider tobe the truth backed up by facts both side's agree on.


Are the clan's unified or not?..simple question..yes or no..It' seem you think they are when it benifit's your side of the debate..and not when your veiws get ripped apart...this is not an essy question..it's a very simple one.

Face it..the clans ***t'up..you can't controll your selfs and have no way of unifying under a common goal in your current state..if i'm wrong please point it out...if i'm makeing this up..expose it....

But don't expect any of us to stand by while your form of clanner propaganda changes by the hour to suit your needs...it make's you look as stupid as the clan's act....


"In any event, cogent thought has been lost for the most part on these subjects, but certainly not on my end. "

Then make your point and stick by it....what is your point anyway?