Let me hear you guys, I had this discussion with stromm, and he has some weird thoughts about it, which he, nor I can put words on.
To end the bull**** I want to hear you guys.
Personaly I have no official opinion on this, all I know, I have yet to meet a more then decent solitus PvP'er =)
*COUGH* you know who you are *COUGH*
We'll know the answer to this Q soon enough, and it won't be through wordsOriginally Posted by Tiamin
Ti and I have played in two different "generations" of this game, he says all the solitus fixers he encounters aren't that great, but when I was playing before I quit (pre-SL), it was the complete opposite, so we started talkin about the actual breeds rather than just talking about whatever gimp we saw on the battlefield that happened to be of a certain breed.
Folks say that Opifex is the breed for alot of reasons. Opifexes make up a lot more 201+ fixers on RK1 than solituses, by a good amount. Some say highest SMG skill, highest evades is what you should aim for. And of course, some people rolled opifex because they identify the fixer with a 'sneaky' 'agile' profession, which IMO is the biggest possible mistake you can make, and is similar to how Hunters in WoW made their setups which, despite making them 'heavy hitters,' did nothing good for them but sent them to the graveyard with a lot of AR/crit/damage that they couldn't take a punch to hit back with.
AR is important, but it's no good if you don't have HP either. I preferred a solitus back in the day mainly because there was a balance that was much needed to cast Frenzy of Shells (WITHOUT pm or si in head, we were the only ones I think who could put NR in head back then), avoid OE'd GA from the highest divest (and be able to swap manex/supernova at the same time), you needed decent HP to handle yourself 1vs1, and you needed good AR. Solitus breed offered all of those things, and thats why I didn't and still don't regret going solitus. A balanced breed has more strengths than weaknesses in AO pvp. And i'm pretty sure soli's had more AR than opifexes back then. Only fixer I knew that had more AR than me was a trox (which ill get to later).
Now in SL, with the higher breed caps the difference gap between breeds, most notably opifex and solitus, widens. You've got opifexes having 100 less stamina. Not only does that mean their body dev doesn't get added to as much as soli's do, it also means that the advantage to SMG skill that they get through their crazy agility is hampered by the fact that SMG skill is 30% dependant on stamina. Nevertheless, opifexes have both more evades + SMG skill. Yes, traders suck now, fixers dont swap manex/supernovas anymore like I used to, and frenzy of shells can be casted in ressurection(sp?) sickness. But these things don't make an opifex a better pvp breed post-SL. The difference in AR isn't enough to give up HP...and after a certain point in evades fixers are just fine.
But if we had the choice, for post-SL, we'd both reroll Atrox...barely any evade disadvantage, more HP, more AR, and if you have a problem with nanoskills, grab an 8h CM. Not to mention Mongo Rage, but i'll bet a pretty penny that's gonna get nerfed sometime soon (not that I want that to happen or anything :P).
Nanomage.
oh right, for the win!
uber nanoskills, GA never OE?)) uber SB? and lower hp, meaning more heals from hots! oh man dont foget the endless nano to root/snare! gogo re-roll!
wtb 10 sk lvl, and 20 ai lvl <3
and tbh. soli or opi. they doesnt have that much difference.
Well I'm a 220 solitus...and I PvP sometimes but I'm not what you'd call a hardcore PvPer *cough* like some other fixers here (have a freshman title).
But if I had the time, motivation, and really put my mind to it, with my PvP setup I'm sure I could get a title more or two hehe.
But if the question is serious and not a joke, I'd have to say PvPing at 220 probably has more to do with perk setup, equipment, pvping skills and experience, than anything else. Being opi or solitus really shouldn't make a big difference, just who's a better pvper basically.
Probably just coincidence that the PvPers you see who are soli aren't that great.
Burt "Hollowburn" Persichetti - 220/21 Fixer Equipment
President of Providence
Sataere - 212/13 Shade
Squad Commander of Family of Friends
This is just my personal opinion, and how I play my MA. You two are obviously more experienced pvp'ers than me and you know your profession alot better. (My knowledge is limited to "omg, halp dmg - evac!!!1
The only problem with less hp is when our evades can't help us. MR has done this harder, but I don't want it nerfed. I think the breed choice boils down to playstyle and I think both soli and Opi can make brilliant pvp'ers
Redliner
1/0 Solitus Martial Artist, Atlantean.
Dead, buried, never to return.
Some AI perks
+/- hp/nano
+/- evades
Seeing also that most symbs have a agi/sense requirement, twinking into 250+ symbs is alot easier at times as opifex.
Feel free to disagree though, as stamina can be a bitch at times too =)
Didn't have any major problems getting them in without any extraordinary twink item except for str/sta belt.
Stamina is a bitch as opi. I will be able to get 270 inf chest on, but I will settle for 250 support for more sense trickledown and because I don't find spending a year on pabot worth my time.
Redliner
1/0 Solitus Martial Artist, Atlantean.
Dead, buried, never to return.
Isn't psychic hard for you though?
well...i said that they arent THAT different.
as Red stated above. its the playstyle at 220 that matters. only trox shines out there.
Nanomage was mentioned so I guess I have to post here
I have only just got myself an AS and as such have not managed to grab any titles as yet, but I fought Redliner once and it ending pretty much with him beating me, after about 10-15 minutes. I was just wondering how I compare to a Soli or Opi fixer ?
Stats wise, I have 10k self, enough nano to not run out casting any buffs, 6.7k AC's and 1.8k evades and about 1.4k addalldef without perks (I think?). My AR is 1925. How does this compare?
Tron04 220/30/60 Fixer
Yrion 150/20/15 Crat
Jasper2002 220/23/60 Nanomage Fixer
Heelzjoo Baby Doc - still growing
216 Solitus......11.5k hp self (12k as soon as get 300 more tokens for my 2500 board), 6.5k acs, 2.1k dodge ranged, 1750 evade cls, 1900 duck (without acrobat runing), not sure on add all def, AR is 2176 w/o glory runing.
I'll get exact numbers later when I get home from work. (can't check 100% right now, but that's what I remember off the top of my head.)
I personally think trox will pwn both opi and sol!
Trox rox my sox
Wasn't the question, but we kinda already concluded with that =P
And yeah, I can't wait for our duel when your done with twinking and all stromm =)
WTB front row seat in this fight. :P
Best of the old vs. best of the new - perfect pvp video material =D
¤ League of Legends - 68WM1 ¤
My PvP policy: If you can't beat 'em, annoy 'em!
yep, dont forget to record it
My fixer is 200. Has been since a little while after shadowlands was launched and I decided to stay with the keeper that i'd rolled out of idle curiosity (yes I do feel your pain, but like the rat that I am I fled the sinking ship).
However, I am an opifex keeper (211 on rk1, 218 on rk2) and I feel the argument you have made stromm is full of half facts and general inadequecies. My fixer is opifex, so maybe i'm just being a little overly reminiscing here, but I was a very good pvp fixer and feel that despite the changes to the game with SL, my opifex keepers experiences stand me in good stead to make a few calls on this one.
Firstly, the HP argument does not stand up to close scrutiny. The difference, even for fixers, is minimal and can easily be resolved with a slight change in equipment. (I had 11k hp selfbuffed before shadowlands existed in the minds of the developers, if i could do that back then at 200 think what can be done now for opifex).
Secondly, even given an exaggerated difference, there is little to no benefit from having just slightly more hitpoints in reality anymore. The only thing that should be hitting you at range is (not including mongo rage for a moment) aimed shot. 40% is still 40% no matter your hp total. However, if you are able to heal back that full 40% quite quickly because you have a lower total, then you will survive longer than someone with more hp who can only heal back up to 95% before taking the next 40% hit.
That's the simple logic behind a slightly lower hp character for pvp and is indisputable mathematics. I have proved it time and time again on my keeper and i don't doubt for a second that it is the same for fixers.
Given that the flawed argument for HP could follow over to "well you'll survive longer if you get hit by a mongo raging enforcer/keeper/adventurer/shade/ma" I disagree. Firstly the amount of firepower that can be laid down on you with those professions alphas if it all 100% lands means that even an atrox fixer is unlikely to survive. Secondly, and most this follows on, the trickle bonus from sense and agi leads to a real and genuine benefit in the potential to evade a mongo rage fueled attack - there is a rumour that tiamin can do so - not sure as to the truth of that, but I wouldn't be too surprised.
Thus, the arguments as they stand are pushed to hp (which i have proved to be relatively meaningless) vs evades (which can never be understated in the game within it's current incarnation). The AR considerations are minor enough to not be an issue - again, gear is the important thing for this and there are many options.
I believe that there is little to no difference in pvp for solitus or opifex, however the opi has the slight edge as a result of a very minor boost in evades over soli. I feel the HP "advantage" is a false blanket of security.
So you're left with the most important thing.
The player behind the keyboard.
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