Duel Logging - Illegal or Not?

[madcow]

Originally posted by Cz
Giventofly/Nothinman, logging in your friend's account might get that account banned permanently.[/B]

this is insane, i have 2 computers at my house and sometime my friend uses the other so that he can log into his account.
are you telling me that he(or me for that case) can be banned for logging into his account with the same ip as me?


BAH, RULES.

[Ashuras]

Originally posted by madcow


this is insane, i have 2 computers at my house and sometime my friend uses the other so that he can log into his account.
are you telling me that he(or me for that case) can be banned for logging into his account with the same ip as me?


BAH, RULES.

No... u will only be banned if u tell Funcom u are logging in your friend's account

It's really quite simple.. and someone had already pointed it out.

If u can log in more than 1 character from one account, then who would want to pay for multiple accounts then ?

We used to be able to do that easily during the chaotic post launch period. FC had sort of fixed it such that it is very difficult to do so anymore.

If there are multiple logins from 1 IP, from different accounts, FC is not going to care as all the logins are paid and legal and they don't really have any way of telling who's behind the computer. Unless u go tell them u are abusing their EULA and your friend is not the actual person there

[GammelMann]

Some time back I asked a GM if it was possible to buy a second
account and transfer 1 char to this.
He said it was not, but was beeing looked into.

Any progress there??

[Cz]

PipSlag (and others), yes, if you log into your wife's account, her account might get banned. And if your wife logs into your account, your account might get banned. Permission or not.

I would personally guess Customer Service couldn't care less about this though, and spends no time whatsoever tracking this. However, if there is ever a dispute about an account ("somebody else deleted my stuff!"), and they find that it has been used by several people, don't expect them to spend hours on helping you out.

And I didn't know I whined about this issue. I gave an official answer, something people usually appreciate.

Tiran, yup, we could easily class it as an exploit. Anybody claiming that "I though it was intentional" had better word themselves well, I'm sure.

Martek, thank you for elaborating on what I said. Yes, the account holder violated the EULA by others using the account, not the other person(s) using it.

EULA does not prohibit dual logins from the same account, yet. It is not allowed, however, and you will be told that (i.e. given a warning) if caught. If you get caught again after having recieved a warning, you have no excuse.

Miir, yes, I have asked that dual logins get put in the EULA.

Megabio, the BlackSnow vs Mythic case ended (at least for now) with support for upholding an EULA in court.

madcow, as long as you log in one single character from your account, and he logs in one single character from his account, that's perfectly ok.

Jokke, no, transfering characters between accounts is not possible.

---

Ok, I don't think there's much use in discussing this a lot here. If you get into trouble about these issues, bring it up with Customer Service. If you want to check on the legal parts, feel free to do so and inform us about the lacks of the EULA. E-mail to me is an easy channel for such.

[GammelMann]

Originally posted by Cz
Jokke, no, transfering characters between accounts is not possible.

"Possible, but not a service we provide" would be more correct I assume

[engelstein]

Without knowing their DB structure, any assumptions about something like character transferring are probably wrong. "Possible, but extremely complex and prone to account corruption," is more likely, I think.

[Nullifax]

Originally posted by Shub
EULAs are legally binding in any state that implements UCITA. I know my home state (Maryland) does, and Virginia may as well.

By choosing to ignore a crime, you implicitly approve of it. Therefore, you are violating the EULA. By your argument, no one is violating the EULA if you steal someone's account and they don't know. But then, nothing stops Funcom from 1. Adding a retroactive clause to the EULA, 2. Adding a "don't steal accounts" clause, 3. Banning your ass as soon as you log in.

In any event, I doubt Funcom would be impressed by this argument if they caught you stealing someone's account. And no one's going to defend a hacker's right to steal accounts.

Edit: a final thought. This is the kind of dumbass scenario that makes for an interesting game but never amounts to anything.

Wrong. If someone does not press criminal charges this does not mean that you are allowing it. All it means is simply that, you aren't pressing criminal charges. If someone steals something from you and returns it once, you have the right to prosecute all the way up until the statute of limitations causes the crime to "expire." Even after that, you aren't saying they now own the item too. If they steal it again, you have the right again to prosecute. So, not pressing charges does NOT imply consent in a court of law.

[Nullifax]

Originally posted by Cz
And I didn't know I whined about this issue. I gave an official answer, something peple usually appreciate.

I don't remember saying you whined. I appologize if I did imply as much.

[________________Miir]

Originally posted by PipSlag (aka PipBoy)

So Cz and Cosmik can whine all they want about no double login and no two people can use the same account all they want, but fact of the matter is, if they violate THEIR OWN EULA, and they violate it against me or my wife, I'm taking their asses to court. And yes, I have more lawyers than they do, so you can bet your butt I'd win.

I bet it's uncomfortable having both feet in your mouth and your head up your ass at the same time?

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Miir



I bet it's uncomfortable having both feet in your mouth and your head up your ass at the same time?

You would know, eh, Miir?
~Chris

[________________Miir]

Oh come on, you can do better than that.

I'm disappointed.


----------------------


Isn't it ironic how Pipboy has made himself look like a bigger idiot in 1 day than I have in 1 year?

[Nullifax]

Originally posted by Miir



I bet it's uncomfortable having both feet in your mouth and your head up your ass at the same time?

LOL, are you ragging ALL the time, or is that just only when you post? I'm sorry, that's in poor taste. Doesn't change the aparent reality of it though.

To you maybe I look stupid for appologizing when I recognize I was wrong to insult Cz and Cos like that. To most people it means I take responsibity and am open minded enough a tleast to admit when I overstepped my bounds.

I admit I was wrong to use the word whine in that post. That doesn't change the simple fact that you live under a bridge and kick trids all day.

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Miir
Oh come on, you can do better than that.

I'm disappointed.

Sorry, I don't join the games of yelling at each other, unless it's about something that actually matters. You and Pipboy have fun. It's quite entertaining. I support Pipboy in most cases, but both of you make absolute fools of youselves.
~Chris

[_____________Longyen]

I wish everyone would stop fighting. I think we've all come to the conclusion that:

1) Logging in twice with 1 account is not allowed. Cz said that they give warnings and everything

2) You aren't allowed to let other people log into your account, but unless someone complains, no one is really going to care.

Pipboy and Miir both should stop fighting, give each other a hug and kiss and make up.

Pipboy, I like when you post about stuff in the "Dream Mission" thread, I really wish you wouldn't get into these shouting matches with Miir, it's not as fun to read. Please don't bite my head off, I'm not trying to argue with you or be mean.

Miir, how come you support Funcom all the time so much so rabidly? Please don't bite my head off I'm not trying to argue with you either or be mean.

[______________Arstic]

And I Quote!!

4. Upon registration, you must select a password. You may not disclose your password to any third party. We never ask you for your password by telephone or e-mail, and you should not disclose it this way if someone asks you to do so. There may be an additional charge to reissue lost passwords. Although we may offer a feature that allows you to "save" or "remember" your password on your hard drive, please note that third parties may be able to access your computer and thus your account.

If i may direct your attention to the second sentence. I quote:
"You may not disclose your password to any third party."

This clause locks down all dual logging. Since you would either have to tell someone your password (EULA violation), Or would have Had to Steal someone elses's password (Violation of Criminal Law). This allows FC to Ban any account that is being accessed by more than one person.

mkay?

Cz, you don't need a dual logging clause, that would just be redundant (sp?).

I do think it is mean to ban someone's account even if they didn't know. but you can change your password at anytime, so that point is mute as well.

[Snuble]

*sigh* I would like things to be settled ingame instead of out of game. Banning should be the really insanly extreme cases.

And anyway, I would love to have public "executions" ingame when an account is banned

Or have chars from a "banned" account stripped for assets and rank and given a personal PvP flag (outlaw) for a month or year or whatever...

(failed missions -> pvp flag (outlaw) for an hour)

[Nullifax]

Originally posted by Arstic
And I Quote!!

4. Upon registration, you must select a password. You may not disclose your password to any third party. We never ask you for your password by telephone or e-mail, and you should not disclose it this way if someone asks you to do so. There may be an additional charge to reissue lost passwords. Although we may offer a feature that allows you to "save" or "remember" your password on your hard drive, please note that third parties may be able to access your computer and thus your account.

If i may direct your attention to the second sentence. I quote:
"You may not disclose your password to any third party."

This clause locks down all dual logging. Since you would either have to tell someone your password (EULA violation), Or would have Had to Steal someone elses's password (Violation of Criminal Law). This allows FC to Ban any account that is being accessed by more than one person.

mkay?

Cz, you don't need a dual logging clause, that would just be redundant (sp?).

I do think it is mean to ban someone's account even if they didn't know. but you can change your password at anytime, so that point is mute as well.

You're confusing dual logging with two people using the same account. Dual logging is where someone logs in 2 chars at the same time from one account. 99% of the time this is 1 person logging in 2 chars simultaneously.

As for the other issue, I already addressed the fact that if someone steals from you, you haven't given permission as account holder, so you aren't liabel under Funcom rules. The person who stole from you isn't liable under Funcom rules either as long as they have another account. The person who stole IS however liable under criminal law but only if you press charges. If you don't press charges, no one gets hurt. Done. End of story.

Besides, Cz did say that theydon't really care if someone else uses your account until someone complains.

[_______________m0000]

"so that point is mute as well."


MOOT

[user]

Originally posted by PipSlag (aka PipBoy)


The person who stole IS however liable under criminal law but only if you press charges. If you don't press charges, no one gets hurt. Done. End of story.

In the United States you do NOT press criminal charges. Prosecuting criminal charges is the prerogative of the local district attorney (or US Attorney if federal law is applicable). That's one of the major differences between civil and criminal cases. A citizen only has the right to press a civil suit.

[Warlock]

I think the big issue with dual logging is that _potentially_ 2 people could play for the subscription of 1.

That would constitute a simple case of theft?

Thats before you consider any other 'explot' this would allow