Role of the NT

[Meko]

Depending on what you *actually* get, and supposing this idea came to fruition along with it, 30 minutes would be perfectly acceptable as long as lock time decreased with skill (say MC for example), IMO anyway.

In fact this is the exact deal MA's get with dimach (mine is down to 10minutes 30 seconds ish with 1900 skill, Most 220 NT's have far more MC than that, i think), which to be honest would be completely overpowered if it had the same recylce time as aimed shot / full auto on the fastest recharging weapons.

[Hydrad]

30 min recharge time is not justifiable in a world where other classes do 50k dmg in specials alone in a few seconds...

your talking about pvm. I want my NT more wanted due other things than dmg. Better PNH, better group abilities, hence a grouip Nullty sphere is something that would save groups if they get trained.

How many groups i saw that disbanded if 1 person dies. Stuff like that. I'd wanne be the handy NT as well not just pure damage, what does 20k damage every 2 seconds do for me if i don't have lots of hp?

The idea am talking about is more for PVP, loading up 3 nanos in 1 nano (and any type you want, doesn't have to be a damage type) and release it with the same nano, and wait 30 mins before using it again.

But meh, i feel like talking to air. Am not the owner of AO, and i'll play till i get bored. Which should be 6 months estimated.

[Mastablasta]

I was talking pvp as well.. doesn't matter whether or not we talk pvm or pvp really, the same people who do 50k alphas in pvm do it in pvp as well, only it gets reduced to 25k there... don't see why you would want a 30 minute lock on an ability when others can do 5k specials in less than 15 seconds..

[Meko]

@masta
Well sure, a 12 second lock on it would be all fine and dandy if this was the only thing you got as an expansion to your offensive capabilities, but once again, i fear your looking down the road of "just one addition to the profession to turn things around" which you and i both know, is not what NT's want.

If your going to get a 50k alpha, stronger nukes (maybe with some debuffs), strnger aoes, better roots, better calms and better everything however... 12 seconds would be nerfed before anyone even manged to find the spot they needed to camp 2 months for the item

[Abalz]

Why do you interpret competitive as a negative thing?

Because competitve isn't good enough when our defensive options are so low. If we had some sort of complete heal or something, then competitive would be just fine with me. Right now I see competitive meaning we're going to have to work hard to avoid aggro while doing max damage (so we don't have to stop nuking to cast a root or calm etc), while competing with Adventures, Soldiers, Shades, and Agents - all 4 of whom do ungodly damage/second with guns/swords.. and still have the option to cast a defensive nano while attacking (Complete Heal, Reflect, whatever). There should be a large gap between NT damage and any other healing class.. otherwise, why even have a NT?

[Keldros]

your talking about pvm. I want my NT more wanted due other things than dmg. Better PNH, better group abilities, hence a grouip Nullty sphere is something that would save groups if they get trained.

Nullity sphere probably goes against the "NTs shouldn't tank" concept, and Sil only mentioned offense and defense, so I doubt we'll see any additions to the HE line for a few more years.

edit:
The way I read Sil's statement is "A few more nukes, along with some calms and roots might be seen sometime in the next year."

[Crysantimum]

Nullity sphere probably goes against the "NTs shouldn't tank" concept

I don't like that concept.
The fear of the tank mage?

Give the CH...I know, not a part of the NT role.

Docs should be better tanks, pvp...then, I am sure that is better. Pff...

edit:
The way I read Sil's statement is "A few more nukes, along with some calms and roots might be seen sometime in the next year."

A bit boring. Why talk about concepts if it is just old news? It shouldn't take years to do create those things.

[Avarael]

It's one thing to say that an NT shouldn't be able to tank - and quite another to say that an NT shouldn't be able to take a few hits if things go sour. Nullity falls into the second category IMO.

The Tank mage, such as it ever was, was the kind of character that hit for 3/4 your health every couple of seconds and could still stand up to an Ancient Wyrm or a Balron without blinking.

[Sajkan]

is Sili done responding to this thread? Been checking back and no responses.

[Keldros]

Why talk about concepts if it is just old news? It shouldn't take years to do create those things.

Because it tells us which concepts the devs AREN'T considering, i.e. new humidity extractors, warp nanos, blinds/debuffs/ etc.

is Sili done responding to this thread? Been checking back and no responses.

As mentioned before, a few people couldn't grasp the concept of "let's give the devs a place to comment without flaming" so yes, I think Sil is finished posting here.

[Hydrad]

Because it tells us which concepts the devs AREN'T considering, i.e. new humidity extractors, warp nanos, blinds/debuffs/ etc.


As mentioned before, a few people couldn't grasp the concept of "let's give the devs a place to comment without flaming" so yes, I think Sil is finished posting here.

What flaming?

and why must something easy take years to implement?

[Triskweline]

What flaming?

and why must something easy take years to implement?

Indeed. And why must we prostrate and self-moderate around a *PR* representative? Isn't it his job to communicate with us?

[Steveo]

so yes, I think Sil is finished posting here.

Eh, I think Sil has a lot thicker skin than you guys give him credit for. He's already been flamed up and down a hundred times, probably just nothing to report atm.

[Hydrad]

Eh, I think Sil has a lot thicker skin than you guys give him credit for. He's already been flamed up and down a hundred times, probably just nothing to report atm.

Everyone thanking Sil and praising this topic. So what flaming?

Only thing i desire is an ETA to the NT patch. I don't even wanne know whats going to changed as long as i know the change is coming

[Steveo]

I didn't mean we had flamed him in this thread, just that he had been flamed before. Actually the nt's have been pretty mild so far imo, I've seen some ugliness on this forum but nothing too bad toward sil that I've seen.

[Seventh]

The Tank mage, such as it ever was, was the kind of character that hit for 3/4 your health every couple of seconds and could still stand up to an Ancient Wyrm or a Balron without blinking.

Check ma/shade/agent/keeper/adv/ets.

And about wise char (hey Trisk)- before SL melee profs (exept enf anyway) whined about roots pwning them- and actually they had a good case (just standing there without even ability to run away while the other side nukes/shoots you to death is unbalanced). Thats why they got root immunity perks/hhab/ets. Restore nt root ability and it will happen again- root ma from 40 m- fry his ass. Root sol from 50 m- wait till TMS runs out- pwn. Doubt its gonna happen. To tell the truth when i started playing AO i was kinda surpriced that roots were ingame at all- there is no real way to balance them- eather they work and melee profs getting pwned, or they dont- then root users that are balanced considering using roots getting bend over.

The problem about the new nt definition is that to be any good in AO today prof has to eather be able to alpha kill the other prof, or have high defence abilities while also doing good dmg over time. NT as it is today have high dmg over time- in some situations- and that it. To be balanced we have to eather get a defence that will allow us to stand toe to toe with sol- and servive his dmg till his TMS runs out, to stand against enf- and servive the alpha/weapon/shield dmg untill we can cut thru his layers/hp/heals- and Sil said that we gonna get our defence only somewhat improved, so not gonna happen. Or we need kind of dmg that will allow us to kill the other side in seconds- eather by stunning/alphaing it, or by being able to kill it before NS runs out.

Of couse sinse any prof can just run out of range till NS is down, we REALLY need root removed from NS if this option gets implemented. Of couse we also have to stand still to be able to cast- once again meaning that the other side will just run out of range. So we have to get some way to do dmg eather while running (perks) or just instacast nukes- like the one that i suggested in "suggestion to devs" tread, 0.01 nukes with negative feedback like somebody suggested, or something else of the kind.

Actually it would be an interesting option for nt- shade lvl dmg and NS that doesnt roots you. So if we can kill the other side in 19 sec we won- if not the other side owns us.

[Seventh]

Btw posted it in other place but posted it again here sinse it related to topic:

"Btw.

Out of all profs the only ones that dont have acrobat/bioshield/CH/TMS (and usually some other heals/defences on top ) are crat/mp/nt/trader. Crat and mp at least have their pets (for pvm- and they suck in pvp)- so it only leaves nt/trader- and guess whats the situation with those profs (and traders at least have healdelta/heals/accumultor+alpha with one hander/accumulator/perks).

So high defence ability isnt optional for profession to fanction- it REQUERED. Untill nt get it in some form i doubt we will be work."

[cerberuzx]

Its really been stated many time.. and even happen in other games...
to balance professions you must have

1 prof

Very high defence/hp- low to mid dmg
mid defense- mid dmg
low defence - high dmg
sponge- Very high dmg

now if you going to give someone with a very high defense and they are nukers per say, then you make their nukes take alot longer and their defense role comes into play.

you have a spong who cannot take 2 hits, you have fast nukes with very recharges or medium speed nukes and give the spong a good change of not getting hit...

very simple... and simply put... we are at sponge - low-low- med dmg... DEPENDING on if we can afford or find uber nano's that cast/recharge slow and that is MED dmg at the most.

not very balanced if you ask me...

[Afelia]

Two comments from one that only got low level NTs.

1. The Advantage of damage in team situations, where due to healing/tanking, you calm all mobs except one, makes NTs less worth than it could have been. If we could get situations where a team could kill 4-5 mobs at same time instead of one, NTs damage output and also usefullness in teams would increase tremendous.

2 It's very hard to give NTs the upper hand in PvM damage without ruining PvP totally. I do not want to go back to the KEL'sing days where number of NTs decided the output of mass PvP. At level 220, NTs are doing more than enough damage in pvp, it's the other tools that are lacking. (And yes, as I trader with tons of 5s recharge nanos, I know all about problems with casting times.) The main problem in (solo) pvp is that there are too many professions that can kill most other professions in 5 sec or less. (Yes, even my Adv dies in 5s from MA/Enf/Adv/Agent etc if I don't see them coming and start executing items and perks before they attack)

I see two easy methods: 1, nanos that work in pvm only, or give more damage in PvM (as most SL Trader nanos) or 2, Nanos with so long attack time that they are only useable in teams where you got good aggro control.

[flguru]

are there no Shadowland Warps.. we can go all over RK. But there's not a single NT warp anywhere for SL ??