QL300 Disc of Cloudy Crystal require 1800EE

[Elbo]

I think people should stop whining.

It is a good little tidbit for certain professions which have been known as buff beggars for what, 3+ years now?

Get over it, make a lower QL version - You should be happy that that is actually an option at all, and it doesnt just exist as QL300 Engineer/Trader only item.

w0t0!

I think you said it all. Could have killed 5 pages of ju(cra)nk(p) by the above.

BTW: no more buff begging....now what to do with my mp alt acct??

Hmm..

[Sheffy]

Out of curiosity, how high a ql could the rest of you (non engie/traders) make at +215 (assuming using most high end tradeskill buffing items, and not spending any IP/IPR)?

Not spending IP or IPR? Probably a QL125'ish.

However, this morning I said **** it and raised my EE/Chem skills to the maximum. With a mostly-complete set of Arithmetic armor equipped and without a single perk point in tradeskill perks, I can surpass 1800 in both skills without additional twink items.

Unfortunately, that took all 1.54 million IP I had (I have 4888 left), and I'm down to my last couple IPR points, and I'm scared to use them on EE/Chem in case Funcom does something like this again at a later date.

I'll also be pretty annoyed if the tradeskill requirement is lowered significantly or the NODROP tag removed, simply because I made the sacrifice to be able to make a QL300 version of this. That isn't to say I hope it doesn't happen -- I'll just be annoyed that I didn't wait for it to.

[swissmocha]

I too said **** it.. I found a ql 151 in shop.. thats 38+ Maxed EE and chem.. got the tradeskilles through buffs.. and made it.. For me its.. If they dont remove no drop part of it.. I have 38+ If they do, I can make another.

And as it was either make a ql 151, or find out how much I could twink my EE+ chem to and borrow even more cash and camp the shop term thingys until I find one that exact ql range.. and.. I couldnt be arsed.. no tbeing in a org, not having any access to low ql tradeskill buffing items, not having ql 200+ imps for it.. etc.. its just not worth it.. I cant see why everyone bitches about it.. Sure.. If they now REmove the no drop flag.. or lower the reqs.. A lot.. id bitch.. a whole lot.. id be pissed for having to waste 4 IPRs to reset Bow and AS to geT chem and EE.. then having to reset back so I can actually play some at times. I thought FC didnt like us to waste IPRs?

Just seems to me that this was forcing us to use IPRs.

[Tchaa]

lawl how about making docs wear a cyberdeck to cast their SL heals, get bent.



bump for raising the reqs to 7x QL.

Green PharmaTech and WeaponSmithing compared to green PharmaTech and Chemistry: Which combo sounds most logical for a doctor?
Just raising an issue that has a lot of validity imo, regardless of what this thread is about.

[Whitesand]

Unfortunately, that took all 1.54 million IP I had (I have 4888 left), and I'm down to my last couple IPR points, and I'm scared to use them on EE/Chem in case Funcom does something like this again at a later date.

Well you are 220 and you have 1.54million spare ips? Thats already very wrong imo. Ask the advs, enfs, sols about how much ips they have level at 220 first before you complain.

So you had enough ips to raise the tradeskills to make that ncu item? Then why are you complaining at all?

[Sheffy]

Well you are 220 and you have 1.54million spare ips? Thats already very wrong imo. Ask the advs, enfs, sols about how much ips they have level at 220 first before you complain.

So you had enough ips to raise the tradeskills to make that ncu item? Then why are you complaining at all?

It's called IPR points. That's how I had the IP at 220. That, and my only weapon skills raised are Shotgun and Fling a part of the way. Note that I am down to my last few IPR points. That means I have used about 20. So yeah, that's how I had IP. Was it really that complicated?

I'm against the mechanics of making the item as it currently stands. The fact that I did make a QL300 version for myself and still disagree should speak volumes about how I feel. I'm not complaining for myself -- I'm complaining for those professions / characters that do not have the ability to reach the high tradeskill requirements, either because of IP cost, lack of IPR points, or what have you.

[With]

is it possible to make this item require different skills for different professions to tradeskill? I'm not sure if it would make sense flavor-wise, but that might be a way to alleviate this problem.

[swissmocha]

wtb BM/MM reqs to make it :P

[furydemon]

I guess I'll pass on this item then - let's just hope future casting requirements (220 crat pet?) don't assume this kind of item as standard for certain professions.

[Octo]

I guess I'll pass on this item then - let's jsut hope future casting requirements (220 crat pet?) don't assume this kind of item as standard for ceretain professions.

After looking at the new crat pet it looks like the whole pet is still in dev testing, and I bet that includes the reqs to cast it too. Most likely the reqs will be dropped significally. Just look at the spec. Spec 3 to cast the 220 pet??

I mean, if I was a dev I wouldnt really bother with the reqs to cast first, but rather start with balancing the weapons and ATK rating. When that is done I would look at the reqs and set them to a reasonable level.

That being said I bet it would be far worse to have a phat AI lvl 27 req on it, so its atleast good that they haven't gotten that idea yet.

*EDIT*: Also, ALL other pets have MC/TS reqs, so it would be strange if they suddenly ventured away from that with this pet.

[furydemon]

That being said I bet it would be far worse to have a phat AI lvl 27 req on it, so its atleast good that they haven't gotten that idea yet.

*EDIT*: Also, ALL other pets have MC/TS reqs, so it would be strange if they suddenly ventured away from that with this pet.

Shush! Don't give them alien levels ideas, you evil Omni! (unless we get a phat General pet - then I'd go ding that AI XP )

Oh I'm not assuming the reqs for the crat 220 pet are set in stone yet at all - more voicing a hope that the devs don't expect everyone to have all the best items when testing

If you look- to upload the nano requires:
Self BiologicalMetamorphosis >= 2001
Self PsychologicalModification >= 2001
Self SpaceTime >= 2001

and to cast the nano requires:
Self PsychologicalModification >= 2001
Self SensoryImprovement >= 2001
Self BiologicalMetamorphosis >= 2001

So at the minute it requires 4 skills at 2k... I'm pretty sure that'll change

[Deathstalker]

Green PharmaTech and WeaponSmithing compared to green PharmaTech and Chemistry: Which combo sounds most logical for a doctor?
Just raising an issue that has a lot of validity imo, regardless of what this thread is about.

That bs was NT throw in, nuff said.

Bump for Tchaa's issue.

Topic

Dont mind the item as it is, no probs with it for my Doc/MP but still i would like the reqs increased and the NoDrop removed.

[Trapspringer]

h this thread made me laugh big time...

keep it up ya all..
i can see the devs are sitting , eating popcorn... laughing hard right about now

reading all this made me also think... there is acctually logic behind all this

think about it... hahahahaha

[neverest]

I used to do some tradeskills, but since I never would be able to do the same types of tradeskills as engies/traders because of the reqs required, I reseted most of them to have an edge in PvP. Most people geared towards PvP, with perks that rely on MC or other nanoskills to land, would want as high as possible nanoskills. Not because they need it to be able to cast some nanos, but because they need it to be able to land anything at all against high evades profs. If this item dont change soon in reqs, I will use IPR points to get the skills to make a ql 300 version, then right when Im done reset back to what ever else I feel I need in PvP. Because I have IPR points left, this would give me an advantage over people that are out of IPR points, which in my opinion makes the item borked in terms of stats needed to use/reqs to make.

[Czarina]

*EDIT*: Also, ALL other pets have MC/TS reqs, so it would be strange if they suddenly ventured away from that with this pet.

It's called a Crat's Primary Charm... this pet would be designed to balance crats across zones, since currently crats are balanced to Inferno and once you start going to lower zones or RK you lose most of your damage.

The Nano Reqs on the pet are similar to those you'd find on a charm nano and as it indicates, it requires no charmed pets to cast.

At current... a 220 crat with 250 Control Symbiants is about 400 Nano Skill points short of the Bio Met Req and several hundred below the Psy Mod and Sense Imp. In order to self cast it..

[Czarina]

Also Wanted to note...

Electrical Engineering and Chemistry are 2 of the only Dark Blue Tradeskills that the Bureaucrat Profession have...

[Whitesand]

I'm against the mechanics of making the item as it currently stands. The fact that I did make a QL300 version for myself and still disagree should speak volumes about how I feel. I'm not complaining for myself -- I'm complaining for those professions / characters that do not have the ability to reach the high tradeskill requirements, either because of IP cost, lack of IPR points, or what have you.

Well but maybe you doc shouldn't be able to make ql300 versions of the ncu? Don't missunderstand me now pls. But that item is freaking overpowered imo. The +30 comurelay is rare and hard to get but compared to that +75 nanoskills hud2 item the comurelay is crap. Maybe for docs and non-tradeskilling classes the ql200ish versions are the ones you should use.

Ever thought that it is intended? That the skills you don't have restrict you from using the high ql ones? Its the same that an atrox complains that he cannot get 1k int without big troubles, but maybe an atrox shouldn't use combined scout armor etc.?

You cannot use a ql300 then use a lower ql, as I said maybe your prof was never intended to use ql300 ncus at all. Funcom puts an item in game adds an agent and doc tag on it and puts an req. of 1500 conselment of it. Who said that you have to use the best version of that item as a doc? You should be happy that you can use that item at all. I cannot use that item and I would need the nanoskills more as you do! Cause I have freaking low nanoskills at all. Be happy that you can have at least +40ish nanoskills instead of +75.

[Sheffy]

This is sort of one of those issues where you're never going to get agreement from everyone, so it's best to just back away and agree to disagree with each other. Everyone has their own opinions, and there are many different viewpoints we can't possibly expect everyone else to understand (for example, I don't fully expect you to understand an NT's perspective if you don't play one). I do understand your post though, and your points are totally valid. I actually agree with most of them.

The reason this is such a huge issue is that it is the first great item with very high tradeskill requirements that creates a NODROP item (I'm not really counting the Engi gun) usable by a large percentage of the players/professions. Given the trend of great items AI brought us (everything tradeskilled also being tradable), I think it came as a big unexpected shock to the playerbase, especially to 75% of the professions who can wear this item and are not typically versed in tradeskilling.

I've been telling the Doctor community not to fret too much, because math has been done to show that a Doctor -- if they choose to invest the time to reset perks and acquire/borrow items -- can make a decently high QL version of this item without spending much IP. As you say, any nanoskill bonus is a nanoskill bonus. It's just that the mechanics of this item's creation haven't really been seen before (to such an extent), and it particularly strikes a nerve with the older characters who are out (or nearly out) of IPR points, which is an equally, if not more-so of a touchy subject.

Perhaps IPR points weren't meant to be used in such a manner, but when you have Funcom representatives saying (perhaps jokingly -- but still) to use IPR points to make the item if you feel like it, it stings a little (if you don't believe me, ask the thousands of players with 0 IPR left).

[Rustybolts]

At current... a 220 crat with 250 Control Symbiants is about 400 Nano Skill points short of the Bio Met Req and several hundred below the Psy Mod and Sense Imp. In order to self cast it..

I must heartily disagree with this statement. Run in the Skill emulator, a 220 solitus with 230-250 symbiants, 10 directorship, 10 Starfall, 5 IA, 10 nano doctor, and 3 genius, the two Virgo nano skill NCUs, a Crat NICS, Int/Psy TNH belt and star of management comes to 1776 BM, 1769 PM and 1805 SI.

Keep in mind, this is with maxed abilities and those 3 nano skills maxed. Also note that this is without Arithmetic armor, mochams, wrangle or AI perks.

It seems to me that this nano is quite castable with those 3 skills at the 2K mark. My only response to your suggestion that that a crat can't cast is that it seems you haven't maxed those skills or something because this is the type of equation that engi's have been looking at for years. The current casting reqs seem quite in line based upon what's shown to be doable in skill emulator.


PS. I obviously didn't include a single AI boosting item, not one tower, org advantage or city bonus. This nano looks not only self-castable, but rather easily so if you make the choice to go for nano skills in your perks and equip. If the pet doesn't have a timer on it, I don't see any reason why needing a mochie to cast at first should be a problem.

[Wizardkiss]

To me the problem with an item like this is not a profession vs. profession issue, but that it severely disadvantages long-time players who have had to use up their reset points over the years to adjust to various nerfs and gameplay changes (as Sheffy hinted at above).

It's obviously intended to be an item to reward those who invest in tradeskills, which would be fine, but instead it just works as an item to reward those with plenty of reset points. Since there could be no legitimate reason to do that it's very poor design.

They should be rewarding people for being long-time players, instead they punish them. They've configured AO in many ways to function almost like a machine to drive people away. Why they would do that to a game that could have been so much more popular is something I will never understand.