QL300 Disc of Cloudy Crystal require 1800EE

[Myga]

Ok, this is from a traders point of view, but the point is valid whatever profession.

1. We got a shotgun with 2201 shotty requirements. If you can't get 2201 shotty, you can't use the best shotgun.

2. Traders can get 1800 EE & CHE, but not everyone. Those that can't get 1800 EE&CHE can't use the best nano-buffing item.

What's the difference?
...

1. What relevance has this? You don't need 1800 EE+Chem to WEAR it, you need 1800 EE+Chem to ACQUIRE IT. And shotgun is a skill that is useful to traders even if you can't use the shotgun with 2201 req which I btw never see any traders using. EE and CHEM is useless to NTs docs crats.
2. Everybody can most likely get 1800 EE and Chem. Except those who don't have spare IP and IPRs. If they want only tradeskillers to use this item they should give it 1800 EE and Chem wear requirement and put it under OE rules.

Unless fixed this is going to be a classic example on how FC forces players use IPR if they want to be on top of their class, and be used as argument for more IPRs in discussions.

[Linenoise]

To make an example: Rihwen and the Widowmaker have roughly the same nanorequirements, yet MP's have a +140 buff aswell as more nano from perks. Is it really so unfair that we get this item at the highest QL?

You are insaneif you are trying to compare the top-end MP pet to the top-end engie pet. I suggest you find a 220 MP go out to Inferno with him/her and take turns soloing Bosses using only the pets and see who fares better.

As for MPs having less difficulty getting their nano skills to cast their pets keep in mind that while they are self casting their top pet with far less difficulty you are probably off making 4 gems sabas, super perns, ql300 nano interfaces, and any other tradeskilled item you desire.

Besides it is not like you can not get that +140 nano buff. You can all you have to do is ask. It's not so simple for a non-tradeskiller to get a nodrop item that needs to be tradeskilled in order to create.

As for this item in particular, I do not have a problem with it as it is. Us non tradeskillers should just aim for the lower ql ones and bite the bullet on the IPRs.

Afterall you get what you pay for. ;P

[Malosar]

Yes engineers and traders deserve this, but why make it accessible to the other nano classes as well if its really only limited to engi/trader unless people are willing to spend 4 IPR?

I sincerely hope FC did actually think about this item for more than 5 minutes rather than put it in game in its current state and let the flame frenzy begin which was inevitable from such a poorly designed combination of item/tradeskill.

[Afelia]

1. What relevance has this? You don't need 1800 EE+Chem to WEAR it, you need 1800 EE+Chem to ACQUIRE IT. And shotgun is a skill that is useful to traders even if you can't use the shotgun with 2201 req which I btw never see any traders using. EE and CHEM is useless to NTs docs crats.
2. Everybody can most likely get 1800 EE and Chem. Except those who don't have spare IP and IPRs. If they want only tradeskillers to use this item they should give it 1800 EE and Chem wear requirement and put it under OE rules.

Shows you did either not understand the meaning of my posts or did not read everything.

it's not that you either get 1800 EE&CHEM and get +75 or don't have 1800 in those skills and get 0. It's pretty easy for most people to get a +40 to +50 NanoController without spending much IP.

It's about choises. You shouldn't be able to use all the best items, but you should be forced to pick some of the best items. That's pretty absent in AO today.

Unless fixed this is going to be a classic example on how FC forces players use IPR if they want to be on top of their class, and be used as argument for more IPRs in discussions.

I am a trader and even I have to spend IPR to be able to make a QL 300 of this item and still be on top of my profession for both PvM and PvP. I don't see the problem, and NO, I will not spend an IPR to make it. I'm aiming for a ql 220-240, +55 to +60 is still an uber item.

(Besides, traders do use Salabim. Everyone that takes the steps needed to equip one loves it)

[Guojia]

It's not a large ip sinkt.. it's a large freakin' IP reset... which is one of the greatest flaws in this item...

No one other than the Engineer is going to keep the IP expenditure after the item is assembled.. that = poor implementation....

The ELLTS could be equipped with trader buffs and implants with hardly any ip expenditure at all on a non-tradeskill character (I'm guessing you never owned one or you'd know how easy it was)...

to: Czarina ... morphing my post and assuming i don't know what i am talking about is defamatory attitude of a child... i don't think flaming will get you anywhere...

if you read my post about ELLTS i said when they "were" droping .. as in A Very Very Very Very LONG time AGO, they weren't so easy to get on.
Not everyone wore the best 1, because of the ip requirements

you do not need to use a ip reset... some will opt for the lower ql version of this item.

AS i suggest you do consider that 300(+75) is harder to accomplish than a say .. +50 version Which only Requires 1200 EE/Chem.

Pretty easy to attain by most i say.

Especially if you don't wanna Find all the items you need to get the requirements for the 300.

Not Everyone can Attain the uberest item with ease... yes Egineers will find it easy to attain. but not all of us.

[Lucilius]

First off: I am so happy i am playing on RK3. No one charges you for a buff and usually Engies build stuff for free. If it takes a lot of time i give them some creds, but not nearly as much as you guys give them.

The disc obviously wasn't designed that way, so why are you even arguing about it? All the trade skillers are complaining that other classes get a little nifty item, too. Where is the problem?

Maybe all this hate derives from the fact that you charge everyone for everything on RK1 & RK2 ?

[Myga]

...
It's about choises. You shouldn't be able to use all the best items, but you should be forced to pick some of the best items. That's pretty absent in AO today.
...

Heh, just max EE/CHEM, make item and IPR, voila you have both, no choice needed. So your argument about choice is pretty irrelevant IMO, if FC want ppl to make a choice put a 1800 EE / Chem req on wearing it....

[Iriche]

Heh, just max EE/CHEM, make item and IPR, voila you have both, no choice needed. So your argument about choice is pretty irrelevant IMO, if FC want ppl to make a choice put a 1800 EE / Chem req on wearing it....

I have ONE IPR, This aint a option for all...

Bump for lower req/ removal of nodrop

[Kinkstaah]

I think people should stop whining.

It is a good little tidbit for certain professions which have been known as buff beggars for what, 3+ years now?

Get over it, make a lower QL version - You should be happy that that is actually an option at all, and it doesnt just exist as QL300 Engineer/Trader only item.

[Powerfist]

honestly, i dont understand why 99% of the guys that want this tradeskill-process to stay as it is are engineers and traders. You guys wouldnt lose anything at all if the process was made easier or the item got the NoDrop-flag removed.

To those who see this item as the long wanted reward for "having to put IP into tradeskills": It's all your own choice. You don't necessarily HAVE to invest IP into tradeskills. You can earn alot of credits with tradeskills, if you don't it might be your own fault.

As for charging, sure I could do that. Would probably earn a lot more, but get far less friends.

Interesting, isn't it? Soriana chose not to charge credits but to get friends instead. Not a reward?

To those who claim that a +40 is easy to create: it's not. just because you tradeskillers can do it easily it doesnt mean everyone can. unless you let us borrow your Arithmetic armor parts of course. Apart from that: If 220 chars are supposed to use QL 100-150 Units, why don't lvl 300 generals drop QL 150 discs of cloudy crystal then?

[Cemetarygate]

Complaining about this item will only get it nerfed all the way around.

Case in point, before and after. Although doable, people said the requirements were too high and wanted them lowered. So, Funcom lowered the requirements and adjusted the reward accordingly.

I don't think this item will be much different. If Funcom lowers the effort I'm sure the reward will go too. In the end, those complaining will not have accomplished much for themselves, because they'll probably have the same reward at a higher quality, such as quality 300 being lowered to 1.2k requirement and 50 nanoskills, as they do at a lower quality now. Or, if people think 1.2k is still too high I'm sure Funcom can nerf the effort/reward some more.

Like the saying goes, be careful what you ask for...

[Rustybolts]

First off ( and I can't believe that I'm doing this...) Cem's absolutely right and he uses a very personal example to me (yeah, I'd say I'm at least partly to blame for the bacam-xum nerf).

Second part is this. The people complaining about the build reqs on this item are assuming that this item was made for them and all casters who are able to equip one. They are basing this assumption off the fact that they are able to wear one at all, therefore it must have been made for them. I think that this assumption is incorrect and here's why.

Think back to SL launch and those of you who visit other profession forums will remember that the first thing out of engi's mouths was that our new pets were insanely too difficult to cast. The casting reqs were so out of line considering that we did not have nano doctorate available to us and didn't get even remotely as high a nano skill boost from perks as the remaining 'caster' professions. So for the past 14 months or so the number one item on the engineers issue list was nano skill reqs that were too high.

An illustrative example of this you ask? Ok. The 5K AC buff, Gift of Assurance was literally uncastable pre-AI. Post-AI, we finally have the ability to do so. This item seems to me to be intended to combat this problem. By basing it on tradeskills, it doesn't give the big advantage to combat engineers because they can't reach the top tiers of tradeskills while the tradeskill engi's will be able to.

This item is aimed at tradeskillers with the reaching effect being that it can be used at lower QLs by non-tradeskill specialists. You can still use it, just not the high end one.

[Solstiare]

I think people should stop whining.

It is a good little tidbit for certain professions which have been known as buff beggars for what, 3+ years now?

Get over it, make a lower QL version - You should be happy that that is actually an option at all, and it doesnt just exist as QL300 Engineer/Trader only item.

omg, common sense!

<3

[Tchaa]

Time to give docs green chemistry instead of WeaponSmithing then?

[corinthians]

Time to give docs green chemistry instead of WeaponSmithing then?

lawl how about making docs wear a cyberdeck to cast their SL heals, get bent.



bump for raising the reqs to 7x QL.

[corinthians]

Unless fixed this is going to be a classic example on how FC forces players use IPR if they want to be on top of their class, and be used as argument for more IPRs in discussions.

Wrong, Funcom decided that certain professions should be able to use the very best version of this item, and the other professions that are able to equip it will have to settle for a smaller version of this item. If Funcom had made five different new items, one for each of the professions in question, with varying modifiers based on the profession, there would have been almost no complaining. This is just a simpler approach than dropping five different new items into game.

[Fluffer]

Out of curiosity, how high a ql could the rest of you (non engie/traders) make at +215 (assuming using most high end tradeskill buffing items, and not spending any IP/IPR)?

[Afelia]

250-ish base
160 from ql 300 HQ.
210 from AI armour
220 from Symbiants/implants

= 950+ with bufs and weapons

Or about 35-40 nanoskills. 25-30 without AI armour

[Myga]

Wrong, Funcom decided that certain professions should be able to use the very best version of this item, and the other professions that are able to equip it will have to settle for a smaller version of this item.....

If you had bothered to actually read my entire post you would see that it is in fact you that are wrong, because about EVERY profession who can wear this can also make this at the HIGHEST QL if they spend IP on it. Look at the buffs / items Afelia posted and go play with skill emulator and you will see that too.

To try illustrate what I find problematic with this to you: since you play an NT, I think this would be directly comparable to FC making a new uber nuke for NTs but you need to max out MA and brawl to be able to get the no drop nanocrystal that once uploaded only require MC to cast. Ie you can only get it if you use IP/IPR but once you done that you can use it no limitations. How would you react to that?

That doesn't really make sense to me so it kinda leads me believe that the process for acquiring this item may not be working as intended atm, and that FC will make a change to this item soon . So I would like to know whether I should use 2 IPR on this or it would be a total waste .

[Iriche]

as it have been said before its 4 ipr :/