more realistic level locks for nano's

[Aristaeus]

I'm posting this here since I'm not allowed to put it where I think it should; In it's own thread on the community board. Also why do I need to do this. This should have been done by someone at Funcom. It has taken me 3 hours to get the current list (with practice runs on what to get into it & background research not included).

The official reason for the limits is to prevent 'trival' level players from using the nano's
When you leaf through the level locked nano's like this you will notice what Funcom has done.
They have taken 25, 50, 75, 100, 135, 165, 185 and 195 as cut of points. It seems that they have never checked what is realistic, though some nano's get lucky and hit the lower limit while being a candidate for the next level lock. That is not preventing trival use that is the easy way out in my opinion. Especially if I can easily strip 9 (lowest pre 100 nano) to 30 (highest pre ql 100 nano) levels from the nano ql to indicate when a nano can (and would be) used were it not for the level lock.
The levels I suggest allow almost complete freedom in the pre shadowlands version of AO without turning the post shadowland version into a gank fest of twinks racing to get the highest nano useable at the lowest level they can think of.

I've only used the adventurer, the proffesion with the most level locked nano's, to show what is doable with the ingame items & skills without going through some of the stuff people do to get into super implants or getting super buffs. Else said I'm presenting more logical level limits then the ones are now implemented (to much of a realist to ever think level limits will go away). I will also put Nano mage levellimits up which is usually between 1 and 6 levels lower due to goodies that they can have (and if they don't have the goodies it is bonus that you can get buffed up where others can't).

When using mp buffs I made a check at what level an MP can get the highest mastery, infuse or mochams, using selfbuffing and implants that don't require bending over to get into. Then removed a few levels to simulate the lowest level that MP can team with and use that level as the threshold on which those buffs get calculated into the ability to use a nano.

Ability selfbuff limit for implants
QL 30 -> 16, no external buffing or items required
QL 50 -> 29, no external buffing or items required
QL 70 -> 42, no external buffing or items required
QL 90 -> 56, requires treatment expertiese and either 32 points from parts of the omni med suit or specialist treatment
QL 110 -> 69, requires either superior first aid, the +60 adventure buff & treatment expertise or a full omni med suit plus treatment expertise
QL 125 -> 79, requires specialist treatment and full omni med suit at this level.

Next is not insane, I got each one of the rarer items and specific armor pieces needed at lvl 100 (or earlier), excepting the treatment libraries.
QL 200 -> 129, Using expertise, omni med suit and superior first aid you are 80 points short of the needed goal.This means that all except the head are possible to implant (ql 125 head add 68, use ql101+ biomech helmet & cloak to get the remaining points). And it is easily possible to get a ql 197 head implant in with ql 121+ biomech helmet, cloak & boots and a medical epaulet & faded treatment (ql 200 = 42) in the right hand (only blocks 1h-edged using adventurers). I have no experience with teaching but if it is possible to at 16 points to treatment you can equip a ql 200 head too. The new treatment libraries seem to give 13 to 14 points at that level, then you only need 2 to 3 points which you can get from general ability boosts.


Build up of each entry
<name + requirements>
<level restriction>
<What is needed to use at that level>
<What level can you use it with boosts>
<What level can you use it with implants for which you don't need buffs except ability boosts to get the ability requirement, using shop bought levels that is ql 30, 50,70, 90, 110, 125>
<what level can you use it with external buffs on the specific skill and what buffs are that>
<nano mage level>
<Suggested level lock>

[Aristaeus]

This post contains the adventurer nano's up to ql 99, I'll work on the others when I notice that I'm not talking to a brickwall

Cyclic enshroud with barbs, Ql 24, 130 mat met, 130 mat crea
Level lock 25
Useable at that level with only proficiency boosts and augment intelligence or expertise boosts,
Useable at lvl 23 with expertise boost and augment intelligence
Usueable at lvl 19 with ql 30 implants, requiring augment ability on the spefic abilities to get into and a basic treatment skill of 47.
No external buffs
Nanomage level 19, requiring ability boosts to get the implants in.
suggested levellock 16 to account for external buffs (teachings of mat met & teachings of mat crea in this case)

Cyclic Firefly's Fury, Ql30, 163 mat met, 163 mat crea
Level lock 25
Useable at level 30 with expertises and intelligence boost
Useable at level 26 with Implants ql 30
Useable at level 22 with teachings (lower level limit for an MP to use masteries on groupmembers is around lvl 25 to 27 for the groupmembers)
Nanomage level 22
Suggested level lock 20 to take in account ql50 implants

Strength of the Hummingbird, ql40, 200 sens imp, 200 psy mod
Level lock 25
Useable at level 40 with proficiencies
Useable at level 38 with expertises
Useable at level 32 with ql50 implants, requiring augment ability and a basic treatment skill of 121 + treatment expertise
Useable at level 34 with ql30 implants (this is needed if people start getting masteries or teaching, then you need to get creative to get ql 50 implants in).
Useable at level 30 with teachings (and ql 30 implants, ql 50 are still possible at this level with abilty boosts)
Nanomage level 29
Suggested level lock 25 to account for masteries and early use of ql 50 implants

Cyclic Cloak of Fire, ql40, 196 mat crea, 196 mat met.
See Strength of the Hummingbird for suggest level limit although all steps inbetween are one level lower.

Wind Slicer, ql 47, 236 sense imp, 236 psy mod
Level lock 50
Useable at level 49 with expertises.
Useable at level 42 with ql 70 implants (lowest level you can selfbuff your abilities to the needed height), requirese 215 treatment + treatment expertise.
Useable at level 39 with ql 50 implants, expertise and intelligence boost.
Useable at level 29 (lowest level you can selfbuff into ql50 implants) with masteries.
Nanomage level 28
Suggested level lock 28

Cyclic Sparking Touch, ql 47, mat crea 231, mat met 231
Level lock 50
suggested level lock 27 (see Windslicer for reasoning, strip 1 level from this)

Ballad of Smoke, ql 47, 231 sense imp, 231 psy mod
Level lock 50
suggested level lock 27 (see windslicer for reasoning and stip 1 level from this)

Blissful Calm , ql 50, bio met 252, sense imp 226
Level lock 50
Useable at level 52 with expertises
Useable at level 52 with ql 70 implants (lowest level you can selfbuff into ql70 implants)
Usueable at level 37 with ql 50 implants, expertise and intelligence boost. Even though one of the two requirements is higher then on Wind Slicer, Cyclclic Sparking Touch and Ballad of Smoke this is compensated for by the fact that only the shining cluster conflicts and (in this case goes to Bio met) effectively making the sense imp requirement the higher of the two and that is roughly a level lower then the lowest requirement on the other 3 nano's
Suggested level lock 27

Lure of the Pincushion, ql 57, mat met 283, mat crea 283
Level lock 50
Useable at level 58 with expertises and relevant ability boosts.
Useable at level 46 with masteries.
Useable at level 39 with ql 50 implants
Nanomage level 37
Suggested level lock 35

Cyclic Porcupine Barrier, ql 57, mat met 273, mat crea 273
Level lock 50
Useable at level 57 with expertises
Useable at level 43 with masteries
Useable at level 37 with ql 50 implants and relevant ability boosts
Nano mage level 35
Suggested level lock 33

Pack Hunter, ql 66, matter crea 316, spy mod 316, sense imp 316
Level lock 50
Useable at level 66 with expertises
Useable at level 55 with masteries
Useable at level 43 with ql 70 implants (1 faded + shining, or 1 faded + 1bright) and relevant ability boosts.
Nanomage level 41
Suggested level lock 38

Cyclic Fiery Wrap, ql 66, mat met 316, mat crea 316
Level lock 50
Useable at level 66 with expertises
Useable at level 55 with masteries
Useable at level 43 with ql 70 implants and relevant ability boosts
Nanomage level 41
Suggested level lock 38

Cyclic Skin of the Toad, ql 73, mat met 355, mat crea 355
level lock 75
Useable at level 75 with expertises
Useable at level 63 with masteries and relevant ability boosts.
Useable at level 55 with ql 70 implants.
Nanomage level 53
Suggested level lock 50.

Sharpen Claws, ql 80, bio met 406, psy mod 360, sense imp 360
Level lock 75
Useable at level 84 with expertises and relevant ability boosts
Useable at level 74 with masteries
Useable at level 64 with ql 90 implants
Nanomage level 61
Suggested level lock 57

Cyclic Arctic Gale, ql 83, mat met 394, mat crea 394
Level lock 75
Useable at level 87 without buffs
Useable at level 82 with expertises
Useable at level 71 with masteries and relevant ability boosts
Useable at level 61 with ql 90 implants
Nanomage level 58
Suggested level lock 55

Minor Lick Wounds , ql 86, bio met 422, mat met 379
Level lock 75
Useable at level 91 with expertises and relevant ability boosts
Useable at level 77 with masteries
Useable at level 67 with ql 90 implants (shining bio met compensates for higher requirement)
Nanomage level 64
Suggested level lock 60

Zephyr from the Grove, ql 90, bio met 444, sense imp 403
Level lock 75
Useable at level 103 with expertises
Useable at level 82 with masteries
Useable at level 71 with ql 90 implants
Useable at levle 69 with ql 110 implants
Nanomage level 66
Suggested level lock 62

Cyclic Guard of the Grizzly, ql 90, mat met 433, mat crea 433
Level lock 75
Useable at level 100 with expertises and relevant ability boosts
Useable at level 84 with masteries
Useable at level 72 with ql 110 implants
Nanomage level 69
Suggested level lock 65

Fangs of the Snake, ql 90, psy mod 450, sense imp 450
Level lock 75
Useable at level 104 with expertises and relevant ability boosts
Useable at level 83 with masteries
Useable at level 71 with ql 110 implants
Nanomage level 68
Suggested level lock 65

Cyclic Nest of Vipers, ql 99, mat met 479, mat crea 479
Level lock 100.
Useable at level 100 with expertises and masteries
Useable at level 79 with ql 125 implants.
Useable at level 79 with ql 110 implants and relevant ability boosts
Nanomage level 75
Suggested level lock 70

Ballad of the Desperado, ql 99, psy mod 479, sense imp 479
Level lock 100
Useable at level 100 with expertises and masteries
Useable at level 79 with ql 125 implants
Useable at level 79 with ql 110 implants and relevant ability boosts
Nano mage level 75
Suggested level lock 70

[______________Varsel]

..but why not use the base skill instead of lvl. It's there. Just check the description of the skill.

A Sol doc pre lvl 100 has for example a Biomet baseskill of 430 after cap. A nanomage prolly a few points higher. If you want to ****e it up you could add implantboosts or whatever but still have it under some control.

I really understand why they put in lvl-restrictions it but is the wrong way to go.

Dr. Varsel.

[___________Evilspork]

Interesting read, thanks for doing all that work. Too bad logic and reason are concepts unknown to Funcom.

[Ashuras]

Well done Alberon.

Cosmik.. can u see this ? Please relay it to the DEVs and our NanoF guys.

[_______MartinDeShade]

Thanks for doing the work. I thought about doing something similar, but damn it it is not my job or yours. It is Funcom's job do this. And if they put just a modicum of effort into their product, they wouldn't have their customers screaming about it.

I hope they go through all the nanos and put the lowest possible level requirements in it. Including all that your toon can do, plus a level appropriate outside buff. If they don't, I know I won't be here much longer. But hey, its their business that they are running into the ground. As long as their investors can't figure out why people are quitting, they can do whatever they like.

Martin

[____________cristine]

bumb

[secondkenlon]

This man has clue.

*ba-dump*

[Ashuras]

Dump again

[MrWaddles]

I think it's painfully obvious the reason no Funcom C.S. person is going to respond to the thread: To do so would require the game engineers to admit they made a mistake. Funcom virtually never admits or corrects outright mistakes.

Their game engineers simply feel the laws of mathematics don't apply to them, and if they just make the code a bit more "tweaked" they can make it work. It never does, of course, and the players wind up screwed again.

Waiting for a response is pointless. Even if it came, it would simply involve Cosmik or Cz saying "this is what we intended, but we'll take your input back to the developers" (== "this is what we're doing, your input will be thrown away, we'll never get back to you"). Never mind that our "input" shows the game engineers are wrong -- in Funcom's mind that never happens, and the players just don't "understand."

Cosmik or Cz saying they'll get back to someone on an issue is their way of saying "we're done with this thread.", folks. Get used to it.

Can anyone cite the precise thread where a Funcom person said "listening to players" and "doing what players want" is not the same (combined with a ridiculous straw man argument)? It shows a MASSIVE flaw in Funcom's philosophy. Namely, that "not doing what players want" will somehow lead them to success. Yah, that works every time, really it does. Ugh.

Anyway, I'd love to eat my words, but I'd say the chance of getting a meaningful response by Cosmik or Cz to this thread is just about nil. "We're taking the info to the designers" isn't one, incidentally -- they use "designers" as a synonym for "trash can" as history CLEARLY shows.

[Kinkstaah]

Originally posted by jwiede
Funcom virtually never admits or corrects outright mistakes.

Stuns in PVP.