Experience!!!

[______________Saruzi]

Experience for most current trade skills is still rather low. I'd like to see it raised so maybe you could use tradeskill to get a level without the need to be fed a thousand items from a high level person.I'd just like to see the xp raised slightly, and I can see how people think this is an exploit, but it people want to break their hand doing this, let 'em! The amount of clicking required is a lot so the tradeoff is okay. C'mon people! Cheer for Tradeskills!

[____________Biowoman]

Hey please funcom !!
Yes the only way I see the vision of your not having to fight much classes.Ie me a doc who puts no ip in fighting skills at all... yes by choice..,
I want to level or at least Make decent exp for the effort I put into the tradeskills.
So since light blue is my color for b&e I set most solo (really not alot I die easy) missions, to hidden and stealth for more chests. Since I seem to make more exp from being a thief/Doc. DUH???
There something wrong with that. Fixers and agents should make more exp from breaking and entering because of who they are .
I should be better at making stuff docs use and need.
And also why do metaphysicists get better pharmacy buffs than I do. And for my alt an NT MAT crea/Time space. what is that??

time to use logic.
thank you for your time.

Biowoman
level 19 doc rk2 omni

[cold]

I don't think this will happen. Why ? Well, simply because you can't die when doing tradeskills. There is absolutely no risk at all. I hope I don't have to explain why that is bad

(PS before you flame me, my li'l trader is tradeskill-oriented )

[Plasmatorch]

Welll yes you can't die form tradeskills but I think you should be rewarded for putting the ip into them. just like in real life you get a college degree you get paid more in money and experience over some guy who just finished high school and wnet to work. Also knolledge has a funny thing about it that when you have greater knolledge you gain knolledge faster.

just one case I want to bring up just the other day I was told that since I have no combat skills and the fact that I have very little hp ( stopped putting ip into body dev at lvl 15) that I was worthless to a team since I cannot "tank" with the best of them. Sadly this has become the mindset for the tradeskill classes since you get absolutely minimum xp from tradeskills and maximum xp from killing mobs. Something shoudl be done to more even things out.


Oh and reality before you go and start flaming me for not knowing what I am talking about you should read my post in Rk1 exchange.

Plasmatorch lvl 121 engineer" lets the bot do the work so I can sit back and make that shiny new ring"

[cold]

Don't worry I won't flame you

There is a reward for most tradeskills. Invest in pharma to make good money from monster parts. Invest in nano programming and you can make implants (for money). Invest in just about everything else and you can make nano crystals, including rare creation-only ones. Money is the reward for tradeskills, not xp, and I personally think it should be that way.
And yes I'm happy that creating nanocrystals is now actually cheaper than just buying them

But you're right, you can't be both effective in tradeskills and combat at the same time. I hope they fix your pets soon so you can bring something there too, that should solve most of this problem (for engineers anyway).

[cold]

Note : I am not against higher tradeskill xp, I like doing tradeskill things myself. I just don't think it'll happen. So, somebody come up with a good reason to increase tradeskill xp

[Cz]

As said, there is a reward in the trade skills allready, besides the XP, but we are adding it to the list to see whether we can get an official reply about XP on trade skills.

[coldwarkid]

The monetary reward is there at high levels, where many items are either rare, prohibitively expensive or can only be made by players using tradeskills, but at lower levels the incentive isn't so great. The honourable exception is pharma tech, since this enables you to make blood plasma which sells back to the machines for good money. However, nano-crystals and item creation are a bit of a bust, since the demand isn't there. As a result, you'll still make most of your money from missions until you're at a high enough level to make something that people really want and can afford to pay for.

A couple of cases in point. I'm making low-level nano-crystals right now, mostly as an exercise to remind me to keep my tradeskill levels up. No-one seems to be interested in items they can buy from a basic supermarket and it seems that cash is tight enough for most players at these levels (sub 25-ish) that they're constantly saving up for specific items and have no money to spare on anything that isn't absolutely critical. Yes, you could get lucky and meet the right person with the right crystal at the right time, but it's unlikely.

Secondly, I'm halfway through building a Mauser Chemical Streamer. Problem is, it's QL 22, and I'm going to have to sell it for at least cr10k if I want to break even. Most fixers at that level don't have that sort of cash to spare, so even though it's a very nice, sought after item at higher levels, there's no reward in building the thing at lower ones. There may well be someone out there who'd be willing to pay for it, but the chance of finding that person through the shopping channels without resorting to spamming them may be politely described as "slight". The upshot is that the Chemical Mauser is probably going to cost me money.

If we're going to use the "monetary reward" argument for tradeskills, there needs to be a better means to reach the market than the current system of shopping channels. A bulletin board, rented shop space, whatever. Otherwise, there's no real incentive to use tradeskills at lower levels apart from curiosity, and that doesn't last forever.

Cheers,

~R~

[Darkbane]

Yes, the issue of how to sell stuff relates to a number of other areas, including mission rewards, the perceived necessity of clicksaver, etc.

There are a few threads on this and related areas around.

Check:

here
here
here

There are posts scattered about these threads that relate.

What we're really talking about here is how the entire AO economy works (or doesn't), that's the heart of the matter.

[Jayde]

Why, technically, trade-skills are "no-risk"...I still don't think that should matter. If someone wants to put all their IP in tradeskills so that they can level via putting crystals and armor together all day, I say let them.

Even if this doesn't happen, I'd love to see tradeskills get at least a *little* boost in XP. My wife's char puts together implants for people constantly, but really doesn't get much out of it. =(

-Jayde

[Destractor]

It would be nice to get a little more xp from trade skills.

I got my lvl100 making a ring

[Onaris]

I would also like to see more XP for doing trade skills. But!!!!

I am currently working on the possibility of making my own shop. I have written a bot and it will allow users to search my stock and then buy from me at a set price, but back to the point.

In preperation for this I had asked the guild to gather as many discs as possible. The other day I went through these and in a couple of hours had gained over 500K XP. OK so at level 83 this is not an amazing amount of XP to gain in say 3 or 4 hours. In fact it is really quite low. The discs were QL 4 to 130ish with the majority below 50. All I did was create the PPPE and not the whole crystal.

The but is how much XP should we get for something that as pointed out has zero risk for the person involved. Not only that but the crystals made give you double your investment back.. I base this on the cost of the disc being what you would get if you were to just sell it to the bank and the cost of buying the consumerbles; then selling the completed crystal to a vedor, so this is really the min profit you can expect as selling on the market would do alot better (I mean ALOT!!).

So for no risk you get some XP and double your money back at least. So would more XP be justified?

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Onaris
I am currently working on the possibility of making my own shop. I have written a bot and it will allow users to search my stock and then buy from me at a set price, but back to the point.

Now that is a utility that would be worth having. Beats the hell out of clicksaver, in my book. Can you give us any more details, such as how it works from the POV of the seller or the buyer?

As for XP - because there are really no tradeskills you can use at Lvl.1 barring B&E and Trap Disarm, you'll have to go through the levelling process to some degree before you can set up in business. You also need somewhere to get your startup funds from. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, especially since you don't need to gain too many levels before tradeskills become quite practical. Once there's a way to practice them without losing money, tradeskills offer a slow but steady means of levelling, and that's OK by me. It's the current financial impracticality that bugs me more than anything.

Cheers,

~R~ <-- intrigued no end by the shop utility

[Onaris]

The bot sits on the chat server and takes text input along with extented info (clickable links).

Here is an example as to how I use it.

/tell tribunalbot mybank add 1 1

This then sets the bank to accept the contents of my bag that I have in slot 1 1

/tell tribunalbot (drop an item in)

just keep giving the items to the bot takes about 1 min cause of the flood protection.

/tell tribunalbot ..

this just lets the bot know I am finnished with that slot

I repeat this for all my sale items.

The shopper then uses the following

/tell tribunalbot nanosearch (lowql)-(highql) (phrase)

the ql bit is optional and the phrase is matched like *(phrase)* so using enfraams would be like doing a search for *Enframs* as all the first letters are in caps and cause of my lazyess as SQL was having problems with ' (should be Enraam's).

The user is then sent a message containing the first ten matches.

The interface for the shopper is relatively simple the tricky part is the time used in setting up the database and maintaining it. I feel it is an improvement over typing out what items you have but still is not that straight forward.

[Cozy]

/applause

Couple of questions. I assume bot keeps separate "accounts" for each user. Is "mybank" a constant, I mean, can one user have multiple "banks"?
And search then goes through all "accounts"/"banks", right?

Oh, one more accually . Is nanosearch a keyword? We will get other categories too, yes? And a web version

yeah, somebody shoot me...

[Onaris]

OK..

nanosearch is a command and will actually search the bank for anything that matches what you type. So if I have entered armour into the database this will also be found.

I forgot to mention that the search term is also optional as just specificing the QL range will return the first 10 items in that range.

There is only one database and all items for all characters are stored in one table of that database.

The bot does other things such as online tracking of players and information on the guild and any orders issued (this bit in beta).

The nanosearch function is a off shoot from a system I wrote to allow all guild members to track their bank contents.

There are other commands for searching your own data:

/tell tribunalbot mybank search (search phrase)

will search the the table of items that you entered.. that is although all the data is in one table you only get to search items that you put in.

The nanosearch command is the same command as mybank search except it uses my username for the search and so you are infact searching the items from my bank that I have chosen to put on sale.

As far as the web bit goes you can view some test output here

http://www.onariz.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/nanobank.html

I have also posted some stuff in the thread about my own nano shop.

[Davitger]

I've been reading about the wanting more xp for tradeskills and you say why should we get more when there is no risk.. well, there maybe no risk but it does take time and does take lots of skills especially for crystal making.. (5skills to be exact). I have a trader that is mainly trade skills and because of this I have a hard time getting teams to lv my poor little trader.. she does 200 damage on average maxes at 900 for the crits that I get once in a blue moon and she is lv 71 right now.. I think if you put the time in it the reward should be higher.. yeah you can sell the crystal and make cred.. but I don't like to do that.. to me the point of making the crystals is to help lower the cost for people to get them.. I sell all ql's that I can make for 1-5k each.. knowing I can sell them for 100k or more.. but I did tradeskills to help others.. cause hey if I charge 100k for the crystal's I wouldn't keep getting the disc for free.. and as for the time involved... Have you ever done it without help from org members or friends.. It can take you 3 hours just to get enough disc to fill one pack plus you have to go get the ore .. and then you can actually put the thing together which is another hour or 2.. for one pack or disc.. for me to get/make them myself It can take around 7 hours we really should get more xp for doing tradeskills.. I a little over an hour at 8x8 with a team and gained 4lvls .. yet I spend 5 or more hours making crystal's and I'll be lucky to gain one lv.. well that's my 2 cents worth

[________Talion Atley]

Another solution could be dividing the skill and XP tables up. So that the XP you gain by using tradeskills, can only be used to improve tradeskills.

This solution is argument against the risk-reward discussion, because a tradeskill user wont be able to use the skill points in combat skills.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Cz
As said, there is a reward in the trade skills allready, besides the XP, but we are adding it to the list to see whether we can get an official reply about XP on trade skills.

There may be a reward in trade skills besides the XP, but it needs help which is why people are asking for more XP reward. The majority of tradeskills are currently weapon related which is subject to player demand. Of all the weapons possible to build, there are only 1 or 2 worth considering using. Not because of anything like damage or recharge time. Simply because, only 1 or 2 would match my skill set

So if item created is supposed to be part of the reward and every player out there is faced with the same consideration (200+ different weapons & only 2 usuable by them), then we're forever stuck with this reality: The majority of tradeskill items require alot of time in aquiring components yet has little appeal to anyone simply because they can't use it.

More ordinary tradeskill items, that have uses for everyone, are needed to make the item reward worth the time/ip investment.

[equimon]

GO Cz!! GO Cz!!!

BUMPAGE!!!! ME WANT MY Engineer sitting on the ground, and not running around playing MA.