Definitive Research on Best PvM Doc Weapons Thread

[AlexisMarie]

Will say nice post...

My comment is that for me IP is a seious concern and also the limits on IPR's... My MP has serious issues with IP at 215 and my doc has a nice pool of IP but I am worried that the same thing will happen for her.

Being that both of my top toons are support classes I will agree that not supposed to be top Damage dealers but the way I look at it is the faster the rocks die the faster the xp rolls in so damage is a concern but takes a second seat to Healing ability.

One of the things I find very frustrating is not being able to self cast CR at 180... My MP and Doc are on the same account so not like I can self buff my self and was considering the use of the Pensive Spirit Phulakterion but then that kills some of my damage unless I move to a melee based weapons. I like pistols for my doc. I know it's not the best damage but I like them any way. I would be curious to know self-buffed if this is a better solution than always having to hunt down buffs and keeping my pistols.

[Docagami]

AlexisMarie,

Getting a Soft Pepper Pistol (QL 194) and offhanding it with a CDR is not a bad way to go. You will still do some decent bursts from the CDR and with +28 MM/BM/MC, that helps you cast CR and Mutagenic Contamination (delicious) which the C line dot will help you with the drop in damage on the pistols.

I have been doing that for a while (although I am switching to maw/ithi soon enough).

EDIT: I just looked at your setup and you can still offhand one of those fluxes if you wanted too as well since I imagine your MR is up pretty high.

[AlexisMarie]

I don't have problem with the Dot... I do have a level 52 mp on my second account so I at least have Comp masteries. I will take a look at the soft pepper pistol I have one somewhere.

[Correlator]

I think there is a way to take Gelid procs into account.

Each gelid has a 8% chance per hit to proc the 960 nuke. Dual wielded, this goes to 16%. So if we assume that 16% of hits will also generate a 960pt nuke, here's how it would come out.

Why would proc chance go up to 16% per hit?

In 120 secs, with an attack cycle of 1/1 (2 secs), you attack 60 times. Dual-wielded, you're up to 90 times (roughly). Without taking Procs into account, we have the old number above:


1HE (Gelid) -------- 1106 -- 1368 ---- Gelid Blade --------- 184-409 (89) --- 51552 ----- 67018

With procs, 8% of 60 hits proc and 16% of 90 hits would proc resulting in another 960 per hit. That works out to 4608 and 13824 respectively (the latter is much higher as it doubles the chance of proc, and adds another 30 hits) or:

In my opinion 8% of 90 (i am sticking with 90 because you did use 90) hits would proc, so 0.08*90*960=6912 extra damage due to procs instead of your number of 13824. So i think damage would be 51552 (from your damage sim)*1.3(dualwield)+6912=73930.

[Biochemyst]

I reworked the numbers over the weekend with some additional refinements in the hopes of achieving greater accuracy. The main changes are:

1. AR has been adjusted to 950 minimum.
2. The EQUIP skill has been adjusted to assume triple ql200 imps and the +110 swag; the weapon QL's have gone up a few points as a result. The AR skill, however, assumes the old rules of maximizing nanoskills & nanodelta at the cost of weaponskills.
3. A number of dual-wield calculations have been redone; see Notes for more information.
4. I also ran a Hi-Crit chart for those situations where someone may be using a critscope of some sort. I reduced the inits to 400 in such cases.
5. I added analysis of JAME Blaster, as it is a popular Doc weapon.

Here is the new data: (I've highlighted the damage of some "classic" Doc weapons such as Gelids and Maw to illustrate a 'baseline' against which to compare.)



Low Crits Chart: 4% Crits, 800 Inits, 30K AC’s, AR as below, Burst/Sneak/Brawl: 800, Fling/Fast Attack: 900
Skill --------------- AR --- EQUIP --- Weapon --------------- Damage --------- Norm ---- Spec ---- Total -- Dualwield

1HB ---------------- 1126 -- 1448 ---- 220 Hammer 112 ------- 222-319 (222) -- 52860 --- 10089 --– 62949 -- 80567
1HE (Axe) ---------- 1126 -- 1361 ---- 205 Axe 240 ---------- 190-226 (190) -- 45240 --- 12716 --- 57956 -- 73034
1HE (Gelid) -------- 1126 -- 1362 ---- Gelid Blade ---------- 184-409 (89) --- 42960 --- .8592 --- 56160 -- 72015*
Piercing (Rapier) -- 1085 -- 1362 ---- 205 Rapier ----------- 189-231 (231) -- 45300 --- 12080 --- 57380 -- 72478
Piercing (PE) ------ 1085 -- 1362 ---- 220 PE --------------- 175-425 (425) -- 42780 --- .4278 --- 47058 -- 62939**
Shotgun (Kyr) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- 205 Shotgun ---------- 139-351 (351) -- 32640 --- .4896 --- 37536 -- n/a
Shotgun (Maw) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- Maw of Abyss --------- 184-503 (2) ---- 35316 --- .2616 --- 37932 -- n/a
2HB ---------------- .974 -- 1338 ---- 200 Sledge 74 -------- 253-369 (253) -- 54240 --- .7584 --- 61824 -- n/a
2HE (Kyr) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- 190 Sword 112 -------- 241-312 (241) -- 51660 --- .9909 --- 61569 -- n/a
2HE (FBR) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- Frost-bound Reaper --- 386-386 (0) ---- 79560 --- ....0 --- 79650 -- n/a
Grenade ------------ .974 -- 1372 ---- 205 Grenade ---------- 169-383 (169) -- 34510 --- .3570 --- 38080 -- n/a
Bow ---------------- .950 -- 1142 ---- 240 Double Nimbus ---- 324-326 (82) --- 43160 --- ....0 --- 43160 -- n/a
Pistol (Kyr) ------- .950 -- 1522 ---- 225 Pistol Type 4 ---- 169-249 (169) -- 34680 --- 11676 --- 46356 -- 67163***
Pistol (Flux) ------ .950 -- 1522 ---- 275 Flux ------------- 276-276 (369) -- 35352 --- .2946 --- 38298 -- 50081
Melee Energy (SOD) - .950 -- 1252 ---- Sword of Dusk/Dawn --- 250-750 (1) ---- 50640 --- ....0 --- 50640 -- 67518****
Melee Energy (Kyr) - .950 -- 1252 ---- 190 E-Hammer 112 ----- 211-258 (211) -- 44400 --- 14000 --- 58400 -- 73199
MG/SMG ------------- .950 -- 1251 ---- 190 Kyr SMG type 5 --- 157-252 (172) -- 32509 --- 20434 --- 52943 -- n/a
Heavy Weapons ------ .950 -- 1141 ---- 220 MBC -------------- 180-270 (270) -- 38640 --- 39488 --- 78128 -- n/a
Assault Rifle ------ .950 -- 1142 ---- 140 JAME ------------- 175-450 (15) --- 34987 --- 14196 --- 49183 -- n/a



The full notes are after the High Crits chart, which follows. But some observations could be made here.

In terms of raw damage output via simulator, dual 1HB remains tops. However, it is also fairly clear that dual Gelids are high in damage ranking once the procs are taken into account. This is a surprise to me, to say the least, especially since the effort that would take to put dual QL 215 Kyr'Ozch Hammers on is rather significant. Contrary to what one comment said, however, it does appear that a FBR user would still OD a dual-Gelid user even with the procs taken into account.

It is further surprising that FBR and Dual Gelids outdamage the MBC in *raw* damage. However, the MBC clearly outranks all other weapons in terms of specials damage. As one poster commented, because we are casting constantly, the specials should be valued far higher than regular hits. There may be a lot of truth to that; and the chart reflects those weapons with better specials than others.

From a Specials-only perspective, a Kyr'Ozch SMG Type 5 (Fling and Burst) appears to be an excellent choice, as are the Energy Hammers and the Energy Rapiers. JAME Blaster really is not bad from a Specials perspective, but its overall damage output lags behind significantly.


Now, the High Crits data:


High Crits Chart: 19% Crits, 400 Inits, 30K AC’s, AR as below, Burst/Sneak/Brawl: 800, Fling/Fast Attack: 900
Skill --------------- AR --- EQUIP --- Weapon --------------- Damage --------- Norm ---- Spec ---- Total ---- Dualwield

1HB ---------------- 1126 -- 1448 ---- 220 Hammer 112 ------- 222-319 (222) -- 60480 --- 11232 --– 71712 ---- 91870
1HE (Axe) ---------- 1126 -- 1361 ---- 205 Axe 240 ---------- 190-226 (190) -- 51780 --- 14242 --- 66022 ---- 83280
1HE (Gelid) -------- 1126 -- 1362 ---- Gelid Blade ---------- 184-409 (89) --- 45960 --- .9192 --- 59760 ---- 76614*
Piercing (Rapier) -- 1085 -- 1362 ---- 205 Rapier ----------- 189-231 (231) -- 53220 --- 14192 --- 67412 ---- 85150
Piercing (PE) ------ 1085 -- 1362 ---- 220 PE --------------- 175-425 (425) -- 55100 --- .5700 --- 50439 ---- 77841**
Shotgun (Kyr) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- 205 Shotgun ---------- 139-351 (351) -- 43860 --- .6579 --- 50439 ---- n/a
Shotgun (Maw) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- Maw of Abyss --------- 184-503 (2) ---- 27510 --- .2620 --- 30130 ---- n/a
2HB ---------------- .974 -- 1338 ---- 200 Sledge 74 -------- 253-369 (253) -- 59972 --- .8364 --- 68336 ---- n/a
2HE (Kyr) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- 190 Sword 112 -------- 241-312 (241) -- 59100 --- 11025 --- 70125 ---- n/a
2HE (FBR) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- Frost-bound Reaper --- 386-386 (0) ---- 79560 --- ....0 --- 79560 ---- n/a
Grenade ------------ .974 -- 1372 ---- 205 Grenade ---------- 169-383 (169) -- 34731 --- .3405 --- 38136 ---- n/a
Bow ---------------- .950 -- 1142 ---- 240 Double Nimbus ---- 324-326 (82) --- 36927 --- ....0 --- 36927 ---- n/a
Pistol (Kyr) ------- .950 -- 1522 ---- 225 Pistol Type 4 ---- 169-249 (169) -- 39720 --- 22268 --- 61988 ---- 85819***
Pistol (Flux) ------ .950 -- 1522 ---- 275 Flux ------------- 276-276 (369) -- 26887 --- .3507 --- 30394 ---- 39335
Melee Energy (SOD) - .950 -- 1252 ---- Sword of Dusk/Dawn --- 250-750 (1) ---- 43095 --- ....0 --- 43095 ---- 57459****
Melee Energy (Kyr) - .950 -- 1252 ---- 190 E-Hammer 112 ----- 211-258 (211) -- 50820 --- 15712 --- 66532 ---- 83470
MG/SMG ------------- .950 -- 1251 ---- 190 Kyr SMG type 5 --- 157-252 (172) -- 37229 --- 21554 --- 58783 ---- n/a
Heavy Weapons ------ .950 -- 1141 ---- 220 MBC -------------- 180-270 (270) -- 46860 --- 41680 --- 88540 ---- n/a
Assault Rifle ------ .950 -- 1142 ---- 140 JAME ------------- 175-450 (15) --- 30600 --- 14238 --- 44838 ---- n/a



The most obvious observation about the High Crits chart is that there are certain weapons that do not benefit whatsoever from a critscope. In fact, they are hurt by it as the reduced inits reduce the # of hits.

Gelids do not benefit in any significant way from a high-crit setup. But most of the Kyr'Ozch weapons do. In particular, the Kyr'Ozch shotgun outstrips the Maw rather dramatically with a higher crit setup -- if you are using shotguns, this may be a consideration in a team setting. Also, the Kyr'Ozch Energy Hammers significantly OD a SoD setup with high crits.

What is also interesting is how well the Kyr'Ozch pistols perform in a hi-crits setting, especially if you could get a Type-4/Type-1 dual wield going, even from a Specials perspective.

I look forward to more comments to refine this data even further (as necessary).

Notes

* - Gelid Damage reflects the 960 nuke proc, calculated as .08 x 960 x 60 for a single weapon, and .16 x 960 x 80 for dual Gelids. Dual-wielding a Gelid with some other weapon will reduce the utility of Gelids significantly.

** - Piercing Evil is Right-Hand only. To calculate dual-wield damage, I assumed that a QL 205 Energy Rapier w/o the 992 upgrade would go in the offhand. I then calculated the dual-wield damage by assuming 40 hits from the PE and 40 hits from the Rapier, then adding the specials from the PE. I.E., Dual Wield = .66 x PE damage + .66 x Rapier damage + PE Specials.

*** - The Kyr'Ozch Pistol dual-wield numbers were figured assuming that an equal QL Type 1 Pistol would be put in the offhand to add Fling. That dual-wield number then represents having both Burst and Fling as a pistol user. I.E., Dual Wield = 1.66 * Regular Damage + Burst specials + Fling Specials. This is a more expensive setup, and harder to do, but I felt it more accurately reflected the best setup for dual Kyr pistols.

**** - Note that the SoD dual-wield # represents dual-wielding two SoD's. The number will be different (and likely higher) if a Sod is dual-wielded with an Energy Hammer Type 112.

In addition, I removed the consideration for a Kyr SMG type 12, as Fullauto damage is not really taken into account in the simulator.

Please let me know if there are any mistakes in math, typos, etc.

/bio

[thebigbinky]

very good work... really helpful considering my doc is getting to the point where I should start taking weapons choices into consideration.... (against ur doc guide I know)

I would argue though that many things besides damage have to be taken into consideration i.e. ability to buff abilities... pistols gain alot of merit when you take these non-damage statistics into account... but then again I am a doctor nub....

Forget everthing I just said... good job Bio

[Biochemyst]

very good work... really helpful considering my doc is getting to the point where I should start taking weapons choices into consideration.... (against ur doc guide I know)

I would argue though that many things besides damage have to be taken into consideration i.e. ability to buff abilities... pistols gain alot of merit when you take these non-damage statistics into account... but then again I am a doctor nub....

Forget everthing I just said... good job Bio

Thanks Binky. But what you started to say is definitely true.

What I hope this data does, however, is to help you (and others) make such decisions.

For example, you can look and see that dual Gelids will come in with about 78k of damage, while a single Flux will come in at 38k. Is the 40k in lost damage worth it to you to put on a buffing pistol? The answer will vary depending on the situation. But what if you could get a Type-4 Kyr Pistol instead with a high crit setup? Then the damage goes to about 62k. Now that might influence your decision one way or the other as well.

You might look at this chart while thinking about buying a JAME blaster and try to decide whether it's worth the trouble. 50k for a JAME vs. about 38k for a Maw of the Abyss -- is the 12k in damage worth the 50million or so in creds? Only you can answer that -- but at least you have data to think through your decision now.

Others might decide to go with Bow or Shotgun because they want pvp weapon abilities. That's fine -- but I think those should be informed decisions as well. I know this research made me rethink some of my plans.

/bio

[Biochemyst]

Why would proc chance go up to 16% per hit?



In my opinion 8% of 90 (i am sticking with 90 because you did use 90) hits would proc, so 0.08*90*960=6912 extra damage due to procs instead of your number of 13824. So i think damage would be 51552 (from your damage sim)*1.3(dualwield)+6912=73930.

Hmm... you're right.

I'll have to correct that mistake; was a big one of bad logic.

/bio

[Biochemyst]

I reworked the numbers over the weekend with some additional refinements in the hopes of achieving greater accuracy. The main changes are:

1. AR has been adjusted to 950 minimum.
2. The EQUIP skill has been adjusted to assume triple ql200 imps and the +110 swag; the weapon QL's have gone up a few points as a result. The AR skill, however, assumes the old rules of maximizing nanoskills & nanodelta at the cost of weaponskills.
3. A number of dual-wield calculations have been redone; see Notes for more information.
4. I also ran a Hi-Crit chart for those situations where someone may be using a critscope of some sort. I reduced the inits to 400 in such cases.
5. I added analysis of JAME Blaster, as it is a popular Doc weapon.

Here is the new data: (I've highlighted the damage of some "classic" Doc weapons such as Gelids and Maw to illustrate a 'baseline' against which to compare.)



Low Crits Chart: 4% Crits, 800 Inits, 30K AC’s, AR as below, Burst/Sneak/Brawl: 800, Fling/Fast Attack: 900
Skill --------------- AR --- EQUIP --- Weapon --------------- Damage --------- Norm ---- Spec ---- Total -- Dualwield

1HB ---------------- 1126 -- 1448 ---- 220 Hammer 112 ------- 222-319 (222) -- 52860 --- 10089 --– 62949 -- 80567
1HE (Axe) ---------- 1126 -- 1361 ---- 205 Axe 240 ---------- 190-226 (190) -- 45240 --- 12716 --- 57956 -- 73034
1HE (Gelid) -------- 1126 -- 1362 ---- Gelid Blade ---------- 184-409 (89) --- 42960 --- .8592 --- 56160 -- 72015*
Piercing (Rapier) -- 1085 -- 1362 ---- 205 Rapier ----------- 189-231 (231) -- 45300 --- 12080 --- 57380 -- 72478
Piercing (PE) ------ 1085 -- 1362 ---- 220 PE --------------- 175-425 (425) -- 42780 --- .4278 --- 47058 -- 62939**
Shotgun (Kyr) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- 205 Shotgun ---------- 139-351 (351) -- 32640 --- .4896 --- 37536 -- n/a
Shotgun (Maw) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- Maw of Abyss --------- 184-503 (2) ---- 35316 --- .2616 --- 37932 -- n/a
2HB ---------------- .974 -- 1338 ---- 200 Sledge 74 -------- 253-369 (253) -- 54240 --- .7584 --- 61824 -- n/a
2HE (Kyr) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- 190 Sword 112 -------- 241-312 (241) -- 51660 --- .9909 --- 61569 -- n/a
2HE (FBR) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- Frost-bound Reaper --- 386-386 (0) ---- 79560 --- ....0 --- 79650 -- n/a
Grenade ------------ .974 -- 1372 ---- 205 Grenade ---------- 169-383 (169) -- 34510 --- .3570 --- 38080 -- n/a
Bow ---------------- .950 -- 1142 ---- 240 Double Nimbus ---- 324-326 (82) --- 43160 --- ....0 --- 43160 -- n/a
Pistol (Kyr) ------- .950 -- 1522 ---- 225 Pistol Type 4 ---- 169-249 (169) -- 34680 --- 11676 --- 46356 -- 67163***
Pistol (Flux) ------ .950 -- 1522 ---- 275 Flux ------------- 276-276 (369) -- 35352 --- .2946 --- 38298 -- 50081
Melee Energy (SOD) - .950 -- 1252 ---- Sword of Dusk/Dawn --- 250-750 (1) ---- 50640 --- ....0 --- 50640 -- 67518****
Melee Energy (Kyr) - .950 -- 1252 ---- 190 E-Hammer 112 ----- 211-258 (211) -- 44400 --- 14000 --- 58400 -- 73199
MG/SMG ------------- .950 -- 1251 ---- 190 Kyr SMG type 5 --- 157-252 (172) -- 32509 --- 20434 --- 52943 -- n/a
Heavy Weapons ------ .950 -- 1141 ---- 220 MBC -------------- 180-270 (270) -- 38640 --- 39488 --- 78128 -- n/a
Assault Rifle ------ .950 -- 1142 ---- 140 JAME ------------- 175-450 (15) --- 34987 --- 14196 --- 49183 -- n/a



The full notes are after the High Crits chart, which follows. But some observations could be made here.

In terms of raw damage output via simulator, dual 1HB remains tops. With the correction made to Gelid proc damage, dual Gelids drop to 6th in damage rankings, behind 1hb, 1he, piercing, FBR, and MBC. The one comment regarding Gelids OD'ing FBR users is not supported by the data -- but perhaps there is an error in the data or in the way it has been compiled/analyzed/simulated. Nonetheless, given the significant effort that would take to equip any of the top 5 (except the FBR), Gelids appear to remain competitive.

It is further surprising that FBR outdamages the MBC in *raw* damage. However, the MBC clearly outranks all other weapons in terms of specials damage. As one poster commented, because we are casting constantly, the specials should be valued far higher than regular hits. There may be a lot of truth to that; and the chart reflects those weapons with better specials than others.

From a Specials-only perspective, a Kyr'Ozch SMG Type 5 (Fling and Burst) appears to be an excellent choice, as are the Energy Hammers and the Energy Rapiers. JAME Blaster really is not bad from a Specials perspective, but its overall damage output lags behind significantly.


Now, the High Crits data:


High Crits Chart: 19% Crits, 400 Inits, 30K AC’s, AR as below, Burst/Sneak/Brawl: 800, Fling/Fast Attack: 900
Skill --------------- AR --- EQUIP --- Weapon --------------- Damage --------- Norm ---- Spec ---- Total ---- Dualwield

1HB ---------------- 1126 -- 1448 ---- 220 Hammer 112 ------- 222-319 (222) -- 60480 --- 11232 --– 71712 ---- 91870
1HE (Axe) ---------- 1126 -- 1361 ---- 205 Axe 240 ---------- 190-226 (190) -- 51780 --- 14242 --- 66022 ---- 83280
1HE (Gelid) -------- 1126 -- 1362 ---- Gelid Blade ---------- 184-409 (89) --- 45960 --- .9192 --- 59760 ---- 76614*
Piercing (Rapier) -- 1085 -- 1362 ---- 205 Rapier ----------- 189-231 (231) -- 53220 --- 14192 --- 67412 ---- 85150
Piercing (PE) ------ 1085 -- 1362 ---- 220 PE --------------- 175-425 (425) -- 55100 --- .5700 --- 50439 ---- 77841**
Shotgun (Kyr) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- 205 Shotgun ---------- 139-351 (351) -- 43860 --- .6579 --- 50439 ---- n/a
Shotgun (Maw) ------ 1021 -- 1361 ---- Maw of Abyss --------- 184-503 (2) ---- 27510 --- .2620 --- 30130 ---- n/a
2HB ---------------- .974 -- 1338 ---- 200 Sledge 74 -------- 253-369 (253) -- 59972 --- .8364 --- 68336 ---- n/a
2HE (Kyr) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- 190 Sword 112 -------- 241-312 (241) -- 59100 --- 11025 --- 70125 ---- n/a
2HE (FBR) ---------- .974 -- 1251 ---- Frost-bound Reaper --- 386-386 (0) ---- 79560 --- ....0 --- 79560 ---- n/a
Grenade ------------ .974 -- 1372 ---- 205 Grenade ---------- 169-383 (169) -- 34731 --- .3405 --- 38136 ---- n/a
Bow ---------------- .950 -- 1142 ---- 240 Double Nimbus ---- 324-326 (82) --- 36927 --- ....0 --- 36927 ---- n/a
Pistol (Kyr) ------- .950 -- 1522 ---- 225 Pistol Type 4 ---- 169-249 (169) -- 39720 --- 22268 --- 61988 ---- 85819***
Pistol (Flux) ------ .950 -- 1522 ---- 275 Flux ------------- 276-276 (369) -- 26887 --- .3507 --- 30394 ---- 39335
Melee Energy (SOD) - .950 -- 1252 ---- Sword of Dusk/Dawn --- 250-750 (1) ---- 43095 --- ....0 --- 43095 ---- 57459****
Melee Energy (Kyr) - .950 -- 1252 ---- 190 E-Hammer 112 ----- 211-258 (211) -- 50820 --- 15712 --- 66532 ---- 83470
MG/SMG ------------- .950 -- 1251 ---- 190 Kyr SMG type 5 --- 157-252 (172) -- 37229 --- 21554 --- 58783 ---- n/a
Heavy Weapons ------ .950 -- 1141 ---- 220 MBC -------------- 180-270 (270) -- 46860 --- 41680 --- 88540 ---- n/a
Assault Rifle ------ .950 -- 1142 ---- 140 JAME ------------- 175-450 (15) --- 30600 --- 14238 --- 44838 ---- n/a



The most obvious observation about the High Crits chart is that there are certain weapons that do not benefit whatsoever from a critscope. In fact, they are hurt by it as the reduced inits reduce the # of hits.

The most striking result of the high crit setup is that Kyr'Ozch weapons really start to outstrip the standard weapons, especially the dual Gelid setup. In particular, the Kyr'Ozch shotgun outstrips the Maw rather dramatically with a higher crit setup -- if you are using shotguns, this may be a consideration in a team setting. Also, the Kyr'Ozch Energy Hammers significantly OD a SoD setup with high crits.

What is also interesting is how well the Kyr'Ozch pistols perform in a hi-crits setting, especially if you could get a Type-4/Type-1 dual wield going, even from a Specials perspective.

I look forward to more comments to refine this data even further (as necessary).

Notes

* - Gelid Damage reflects the 960 nuke proc, calculated as .08 x 960 x 60 for a single weapon, and .08 x 960 x 80 for dual Gelids. Many thanks to Thales for catching that error, which turned out to be significant.

** - Piercing Evil is Right-Hand only. To calculate dual-wield damage, I assumed that a QL 205 Energy Rapier w/o the 992 upgrade would go in the offhand. I then calculated the dual-wield damage by assuming 40 hits from the PE and 40 hits from the Rapier, then adding the specials from the PE. I.E., Dual Wield = .66 x PE damage + .66 x Rapier damage + PE Specials.

*** - The Kyr'Ozch Pistol dual-wield numbers were figured assuming that an equal QL Type 1 Pistol would be put in the offhand to add Fling. That dual-wield number then represents having both Burst and Fling as a pistol user. I.E., Dual Wield = 1.66 * Regular Damage + Burst specials + Fling Specials. This is a more expensive setup, and harder to do, but I felt it more accurately reflected the best setup for dual Kyr pistols.

**** - Note that the SoD dual-wield # represents dual-wielding two SoD's. The number will be different (and likely higher) if a Sod is dual-wielded with an Energy Hammer Type 112.

In addition, I removed the consideration for a Kyr SMG type 12, as Fullauto damage is not really taken into account in the simulator, and it isn't clear at all that Doctors could get a decent Fullauto skill. If anyone has experience with Fullauto as a Doc, please let us know.

Please let me know if there are any mistakes in math, typos, etc.

/bio

[Elucidate]

What level range are you setting these numbers for, Bio?

To add the MBC to the list, you'd have to assume said doc is 208+, which kinda cuts into the low end numbers. At 210 I could throw in my 1HE imps and be within a few points of the 1.2k MBS cap.

Definitive research includes all viable level ranges, since technically a doc could be a battle-doc from level 1-220 (Making sacrifices in other areas at times).

[Biochemyst]

The numbers I ran are based on a 210 Solitus Doc template.

What I need to do next -- assuming these numbers are without obvious errors and flaws -- is to run them for different levels. Then, of course, to be fair, the AR's need to be adjusted to where they are not automatically OE during combat. That will require some assumptions.

I had in mind 150, 190, 200, 205, 210, 215, 220.

I suspect what we will find is that some weapons are uber at 150 while utterly crap at 210+.
What I would actually ask is if there are any others who wish to assist in the task. It's a fair amount of data crunching to do 7 different "levels" for 4 different breeds, and if others could contribute, it would be awesome.

/bio

[Toxinator]

Might i suggest that you revamp the first post to reflect your current calculations so that new comers to the thread are not misinformed with old information that does not include everything.

[Biochemyst]

Good call Tox.

Editing first post.

/bio

[amodrek]

NJ bio

a post of all of "bio's" links should be rooted

[Biochemyst]

I need some help in moving this research forward guys.

Who wants to step up and help me compile the data?

The Task:

To run numbers on Docs of all four breeds at different levels, using Eylen's base numbers.

The levels are: 150, 175, 190, 200, 205, 210, 215, 220

All of my analysis is based on a 210 Solitus Doc.

I can make the chart if a few people would help with running the numbers. Post here or PM me or /tell me in-game if you'd like to discuss methodology and criteria, etc.

Thanks,

/bio

[Qbin]

So much interesting data to look at . Thanks for your efforts Bio!

[Elucidate]

I need some help in moving this research forward guys.

Who wants to step up and help me compile the data?

The Task:

To run numbers on Docs of all four breeds at different levels, using Eylen's base numbers.

The levels are: 150, 175, 190, 200, 205, 210, 215, 220

All of my analysis is based on a 210 Solitus Doc.

I can make the chart if a few people would help with running the numbers. Post here or PM me or /tell me in-game if you'd like to discuss methodology and criteria, etc.

Thanks,

/bio

I'll run DD and give you my DPM (no DoTs) from an RK Dyna (probably one of the Perpetual Wastes Scorpions), so min-damage won' be an issue. I will go completely self-buffed.

[AlexisMarie]

To be honest as long as the level is know for the template it's easy to adjust for the other levels just basing off the skill... I am still in a quandry about what I want to do with my doc but this information has been very useful for me to start at least looking at what options others have tried and what seems to have worked for them.

[Biochemyst]

To be honest as long as the level is know for the template it's easy to adjust for the other levels just basing off the skill... I am still in a quandry about what I want to do with my doc but this information has been very useful for me to start at least looking at what options others have tried and what seems to have worked for them.

i thought so too, Alexis. But there's one critical component that is missing.

It isn't possible to equip some items at 150.

When you look at the QL's of the Kyr weapons involved, it seems fairly obvious to me that the lower Docs won't have a chance. So the project, in order to be complete, should set forth at least some major break points and what weapons to compare at those points. The QL's of the weapons must be adjusted accordingly, and Dam Sim run on those QL's.

I think it's fair to say w/o knowing more that at 190, for example, if a Doc manages to get on dual Gelids, they will OD everything under the sun that a 190 Doc can get on. But we, as a community, need data.

Perhaps the project will still serve if it goes 175, 200, 210, 220. Skip the lower and middle -- you can easily infer from lvl 200 what a lvl 195 or a lvl 201 doc might be able to do. You can infer from a lvl 175 doc what a lvl 160 doc could do as well.

I will try to run some numbers for a lvl 175 Solitus Doc as the next phase.

/bio

PS: It'd be great if someone wants to do this for Nanomage docs -- I know there are a lot of you out there.

[AlexisMarie]

I would suggest 175 and 190 as a starting point.... I am only now really trying to figure out what to do with my doc. I went with pistols cause I liked them and the little added damage is nice. I was able to get a 211 flux on her and keep it un-oe'd so it's not too bad. My frustration is with the requirements on the nanos. I am not used to having to find an MP to get buffs from since I still play my MP more than my doc.

But from this list I picked a couple things that I thought might be nice and started running numbers. I haven't made any final decisions but to be honest the scaling should be along some equations it's just a matter of building that equation and you will be able to find the results for most of the levels in an approximations

I guess I am saying you did a fantastic job... Yes it would be nice to have more info but overall very very useful information is here.