Money, gotten completely out of hand?

[BGumble]

Originally posted by Zarch
It is actually very clear why we have money inflation and it is ofcourse the fact that money is not flowing out of the game but instead circulating from player to player.

Now why are some players rich and some are not? I earlier gave this doc example Auno. Why he has money? He made a swift and intelligent move to gain from FC (yes FunCom) rule change and peoples lazyness. The moment tank armor was nerfed he was already on the ground and running. In few short moments he camped mission terminals for Primus Decus Coats and took the mission to the spot that usually gives small dungeons (for some reason certain locations are most of the time same type dungeon, again something that intelligent player notes up and memorizes). He then sold those for 30M. He also ran some QL 200 Novas that sold for 25M, Maussers for 12m, etc...

You wanna be rich? It is still relatively easy. Look what people want most NOW and go do them. There is always a big need for some equipment, problem is, some of it are now boss monster items but there are still actually items that are real low QL and fetch you several millions (certain instruction disc's come to mind ).

Also, do missions only for good stuff and unless it truly IS impossible, dont give up. This doc friend of mine still runs max hard missions at lvl 124. Sure he dies some but at the end he usually can map out the missions (just take one to location near save) and gets the item. Sometime it takes 20 tries, sometimes it takes 1 and rarely, it will be impossible. Anyways since he has selected to do a mission with GOOD item he knows he will get several millions from it.

So dont give me any BS that "I cant do mission". Everyone can and it only needs patience and knowledge and luck (I mean how hard it is to run 12 room mission cave ).
Zarch and bunch of other chars

I gotta pull you up on this.

You make it all sound sooo easy.

You managed to get 30M worth of decus coat missions??

*HOW* ???

I'd guess more than 50% of my time is spent camped at mission terminals, I'd hate to think how many mission items I've scanned - probably thousands. In all the time I've been playing I've seen ONE decus coat which I went and got and am wearing. "In few short moments he camped mission terminals for Primus Decus Coats" try looking for a month.

Missions for instruction discs? ?? ??? sorry but when I sit at a terminal they dont come up. EVER. I've never had an instruction disc offered as either the reward or the item to be described.

You even talk about selecting missions for high value items in areas that give small mission caves. If you have that much choice over where your item is to be found then you have some magical luck.

I wish my game worked like yours.

[_________KrazyKanuck]

Originally posted by Avatarius
AO's economy is shaken due to the influx of tens of millions [and possibly hundreds of millions] of credits purchased from E-Bay for real money, flooding an economy with cash causes inflation.

The cash was always here to begin with though. Its not like this cash was never there then people sold it on ebay and poof it appeared. Now if you were to say that due to a dupe bug 100's of millions of credits that would be correct. EBAY has NOTHING to due with all the credits in the economy. Put the blame where the blame is due and thats on the dupers. ARGG stupid people make me mad.

[_________KrazyKanuck]

oh and on the issue of vehicle fuel thats a good idea. Perhaps a charge of .05*QL of vehicle per second used would be a good charge. So for example my ql35 yalm would cost 1.75 creds per second to run. Rounded up of course. Seems like a lost of cash but when you think about it, it never takes more then a few minutes to get to a mission. Would only take a couple of kills depending on the mods you find to make the money back.

Adding a cost like this would also solved the problem some people have seen in the new build notes of people always staying in their yalms since they will no longer unequip everytime you zone. Doesn't look as good to see 75% of the people in their yalms as opposed to everyone in their multi-coloured armour

Oh and one other thing. Yalms would have to be fixed first so that the higher QL ones actually do go faster. Either that or change the function so that high lvl yalms are more efficient then low lvl ones you could say 21 creds - (.05*QL of yalm) So a ql 200 yalm cost only 1 creds per second while a ql 35 would cost 19 creds per second. But that would suck to be a low lvl player so i prefer that they fix yalms so the high QL ones actually go faster then the low QL ones. That would be another good money sink cause if you wanted to go the fastest you would need to upgrade your yalm as you lvled. And really these people with 100's of millions of creds have no reason not to buy thte ql 200 yalm at 50million creds anyways

[___________Avatarius]

>The cash was always here to begin with though. Its not like this >cash was never there then people sold it on ebay and poof it >appeared. Now if you were to say that due to a dupe bug 100's >of millions of credits that would be correct.

Should'nt that have caused deflation due to the supply and demand curve? Flood the market with dupes of "decus coats" and their value should decline steadily - successfully doing this would require the duper to be very subtle [supposedly Funcom monitors for this right??].

I believe there are people on, 12+ hours a day, running missions and possibly using GEAR. An exploit, yes but not duplication and again some might be just damned persistent [doing legit missions, but they got running it down to an exact science and do it for hours and hours on end non stop every day].

I heard at one point there was a way to dupe credits, to be sure that could have been a disaster in itself.

> EBAY has NOTHING to due with all the credits in the economy. >Put the blame where the blame is due and thats on the dupers. >ARGG stupid people make me mad.

Why are you getting nasty, totally uncalled for and unjustified?!

[Paffy]

I think I use pretty standard setup which is (select your difficulty) and Max Bad, Max Money.

I dont know if you have noticed but certain mission terminals give certain locations (which change when you level) and if you stay on one level long enough (112 would be my suggestion ) you see the pattern.

Then just find the mission terminals that give missions commonly to the place you want to go and spend one hour camping it on your chosen difficulty (remember items dont spawn at all difficulties so you have to know the QL's they spawn, again something you learn at time or if you are 112 and go max hard, its QL 200).

What are good terminals then? Well I let you find those yourself but you dont need to be sherlock to watch where most high lvl players camp missions.

Why did I say one hour? Dunno really but I've heard (not verified) that by fast clicking you will see every item on offer on that terminal in one hour of camping it. If it dont have anything interesting, go for another one.

I have never needed to camp mission terminal more than 45 mins to get 3 missions with items that will fetch good money or that I can use myself.

My own favorites:

20K
Broken Shores Omni Base
Broken Shores (City of Home)
Avalon Omni Outpost
Newland
Omni Trade Central
Omni Entertainment Grid
Mort

These are the mission terms I usually visit and the places I take missions.

Hope these help.

Zarch and bunch of other chars

[Morphex]

But I feel that PvM and PvP balancing are more important issues right now...

I feel that PvP is going the right way, but PvM really sucks

And by the way, you can make a lot of money by being a good trader (not the profession). If you buy things cheap on the shopping channel that you know you can get more money for, you can earn millions, but you need a certain knowledge of the value of items...

[BGumble]

Originally posted by Zarch
I think I use pretty standard setup which is (select your difficulty) and Max Bad, Max Money.

I dont know if you have noticed but certain mission terminals give certain locations (which change when you level) and if you stay on one level long enough (112 would be my suggestion ) you see the pattern.

Then just find the mission terminals that give missions commonly to the place you want to go and spend one hour camping it on your chosen difficulty (remember items dont spawn at all difficulties so you have to know the QL's they spawn, again something you learn at time or if you are 112 and go max hard, its QL 200).

What are good terminals then? Well I let you find those yourself but you dont need to be sherlock to watch where most high lvl players camp missions.

Why did I say one hour? Dunno really but I've heard (not verified) that by fast clicking you will see every item on offer on that terminal in one hour of camping it. If it dont have anything interesting, go for another one.

I have never needed to camp mission terminal more than 45 mins to get 3 missions with items that will fetch good money or that I can use myself.

My own favorites:

20K
Broken Shores Omni Base
Broken Shores (City of Home)
Avalon Omni Outpost
Newland
Omni Trade Central
Omni Entertainment Grid
Mort

These are the mission terms I usually visit and the places I take missions.

Hope these help.

Zarch and bunch of other chars

Thank you for the extra info, I'm doing Max Bad/Max Money usually from 20k. Maybe there are more high value items than I'm aware of since I can easily spend an hour without coming up with anything particularly valuable or useful. Maybe its my lvl (early 70s). Logically you'd have thought the items on offer wouldn't vary from area to area but it does seem that if you camp a terminal for an hour you see the same items coming up again and again.

[Paffy]

What I've seen the items do change when you go from one terminal to another one. Dont know if it is meant to be so though.

Good monetary gains for the stuff you can get are most likely from:

Elite parts
Nano Armor parts, especially cloaks
Senpai Coats (try to get Primus)
MP Anima nanos
Support Beams
Engineer nanos if you get QL 125+

The good stuff comes at 112 when you can get QL 200 in max hard. I know it wont be easy to do those but usually worth few deaths.

Now that items are getting quite common again, prices are coming down. Examples are QL 200 wanted weapons are now "only" around 10-15M and not 25M+

Some good nanos sell for 1M-5M, some rare ones even higher.

Zarch and bunch of other chars

[____________Kilotone]

make some hireable npcs for a tempoorary time, hat will fight for you for an hour or so that could help u out on missons o

give the players to give credits for certain things aka cleaning up the water in tir, planting a flower patch somewhere in the world, putting a temporary sign somwhere

high lvl roleplay boosts, like some purchasable cloak or hoods that boost your char size insanely or change your caracter to have a permanant glowing auro around them<anti-laggy though>

Maybe also the ability to buy a landing pad for your yalmaha, or the ability to colorize and personalize it

maybe some illigal stims in some store that alter your character some way temporarily, but u never know what it will be, kinda like a lottery but still based<normal lottery would be nice also>

Make some missions that cost money to run and are uber hard, but have an outstanding item/cash reward

some nice adveturer/nt buffs *cough*

[_________KrazyKanuck]

Originally posted by Avatarius
>The cash was always here to begin with though. Its not like this >cash was never there then people sold it on ebay and poof it >appeared. Now if you were to say that due to a dupe bug 100's >of millions of credits that would be correct.

Should'nt that have caused deflation due to the supply and demand curve? Flood the market with dupes of "decus coats" and their value should decline steadily - successfully doing this would require the duper to be very subtle [supposedly Funcom monitors for this right??].

From my experience in some other games where duping is/was a problem people always go for duping the money over duping the items. Why you ask. couple of reasons. First off when your duping stuff your going to want to keep it subtle. announcing over the shopping channels you have 40 decus coats for sale is like drawing a giant target on your chest for a investigation. Also if you dupe the credits you only have to go through one transaction to get the money the other way you have to first sell the duped items then use the money the buy what you want. also i have noticed that cheats for duping creds and the like tend to be easier and more plentiful then duping of items. For example on EBay awhile back someone was selling a way to dupe items. they said it worked 3/4 of the time. So you got a single coat your trying to dupe and it fails now you got no coats to dupe. were as money you can either only dupe 1/2 of it at a time and that way you'll always have some in the bank if it fails and even if you lose it it is often easier to regain the money to dupe then find that really rare item again. Another reason that the dupers go for the credits usually instead of single items, its not that hard to launder the cash to another person or group of people. You can spread the money amoung a bunch of people and it won't look that su****ious but having a bunch of people all with multiples of the exact same armour does. Finally the reason most people will dupe credits first is usually the scale you can do it on. Why dupe a couple decus coats which sell for 500k or whatever first when you can just dupe 10 million creds in the same amount of time and buy 20 decus coats. I don't know what the max trade amount in this game is but i know a game where people could dupe up to 1 billion creds at a time. Prices skyrocketed to about 10 times what they were and went up from there. The people were caught shortly there after and permanently banned but by that time the damage had been done. Eventually the game developers had to reset the game entirely because it was impossible for newer players to get into the game when items where at the outrageous prices all long time players could afford.

anyways my point is besides the IP rings cash was probably the most duped item.

and for those who were wondering almost all dupe bugs come from crashing/disconnecting/trying to fool the game while trading with another person. Ends up giving both players copies of the same item. So usually it takes 2 to pull of a dupe. I have rarely seen a dupe which one player was able to pull of using one account only.

[BGumble]

One way to keep prices in check would be to reduce the number of mission only items - put them in shops albeit at high prices but far less than shopping channel prices. Might make the game less interesting though.

[___________Catalyste]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Axist
[B]use time for asking for donation? what a ridicolous thing. Most ppl are dead tired of beggers.

Well, I have received a few donations, but then I give most of my stuff away to others in need, and I NEVER asked for them, I am no beggar, I need no pity, but I HATE selling. I have even offered to split the proceeds from anyone who would be interested in selling my stuff for me, sigh. I buff for free, do implants for free, and if someone wishes to give me something I usually refuse. I have done OK making my own way... but I am not afraid to accept help. Being gracious goes a long way

This is a greedy planet folks, in 30,000 years, somethings never change. Face it, that is part of life on Rubi-Ka...we can complain, or do something about it, and those who are rich already have made their statements..I am not one of them, but I am ok

[___________Jamescole]

I collect crap I dont need in missions then unload it in training camps or on new players. When asking for money I earn it. Usually stand up comedy "if I make you laugh will you donate 1000 to my mausser fund" running erronds " if I find an item for sale store/player will you help feed and cloth me" I earn it either running missions or working socially. You want me to taunt that person for 30 minutes pay me big I will do it.(maybe)

[___________Catalyste]

It has amazed me how stratified the economy on Rubi-Ka has become. Most people I know around my level 70-100 are constantly broke, (usually around 200,000 credits which does not go far), unless they are good at selling (I am not). Folks in the 150-200 range tell me they have no need for money any more.. huh? They all sell stuff back and forth to each other (Or even better, just trade) Most have more credits than they know what to do with, all gotten honestly, and they NEVER sell or buy anything in the stores. Must be nice. Now when I was level 30, and headed toward 50, things were great, I had enough credits, helped folks all the time, and had no want of anything. Now I do missions constantly, and yet the amount I am getting is not a lot more than I was getting at level 30, yet the cost of living has skyrocketed. 200,000 at level 30 would cover all new armour, implants, and weapons, a few nanos and supplies, now I get one implant and a few supplies OR a nano that I need (and cannot find in a mission). I see level 30-ish folks buying stuff all the time, and seem to have no problem with money, so maybe that has not changed. I see newbies who don't want to do missions asking for donations as usual. Still, many of my "contemporaries" seem to face the same problems as I do. sigh...*looks forward to level 150?* Any sales classes available? hehe

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by AgentGimpy
However, this is a "role playing" game and and the main role of all players is not about making money to buy all the stuff other players have. We all have our roles on Rubi-ka, just like the real world.

If some people want to play for the money of the game, then that's fine too. I don't agree that this is just simply a "role playing" game. For some people it is about making money and buying the stuff and selling it to others for a profit. Or what not.

I think shops in basic are way to expensive. I can understand a weapon going for a ton of cash, like maybe a QL 40 or something that is higher going for, 28k.

but for a QL 6 or something going for 6k.
Thats more money than a newbie would be able to make hunting in the newbie area or even doing missions. And the implants, that are below 10 in QL, the money to make that much would simply take too much time to invest in. Now Im not saying we should go around and make mobs drop more cash. Im just saying maybe lower the prices a bit. I saw a nova flow QL in the 20's go for 28k. I know thats a valuable weapon but cmon. ..

Anyhow I heard funcom was going to lower prices and debuff mobs but thats just what I heard from some funcom article.

[________________Jabz]

Yeah OK I dunno about missions bein hard for docs, but that sounds about true. But team loot alpha gives the doc just the same amount of loot as everyone else in the group. Makin money of MISSIONS?????? Quit playin around. Noone makes money of missions. At least not the -real- money. You make real cash from looting a certain type of mob existing on various locations around the map.

At lvl 30sh I managed to get my hands on a pair of lowql senpai coats and sold them.. Made around 2mill, wich was nice.. If I try real hard with my lvl65 soldier now I can prolly make about 1 million a day from doing missions, but then we're talking 10hours gameplay(unless I'm realy lucky). I have enormous trouble getting into groups with my soldier "Sorry, we need a doc" is the common response. I know what's that like.. Man has any doc ever heard "Sorry, we want a soldier" I don't think so. Yeah this only handles soldier VS doc issues. There are other classes that I can assume are having more trouble rounding up cash. But a doc should have zero problems finding hunting teams that pay off well in loot, without having to beg for doing their part of the huntingteamwork.

This is not meant to insult any of you classes that DO have trouble finding cash. Only to explain that a Doc should be one of the easier moneymaking classes.

[_______________Axist]

were did u loot a cloak?

only place ive ever looted a cloak is in mort, nanocloak, and it was pretty high ql. This ones was so usual around it wasnt worth selling, but better to save to use myself in a far future. The other loots i have had is also the kind of armor that have downsides at many AC's. I tried a week to sell 10 items ranged ql 120-150, but didnt get t osell them at cheap prices even. I got some good money of selling them to shop. And this was armor i had collected for a month. A agent lvl 100-110 can sneak thru missions and get example ql 160 favoured items. (primus coats, elite armor, nova flow etc) About all agents lvl 100+ i know about have ease to get more money than they ever need.

Anyway, what i started with is balance among professions. There should be other ways to make money, more professoin based, to improve professions (especially doc's, alltho they have got monsterparts to get money, but i think this was a bad emrgancy solution, not very creative) ability to make money, AND to improve a RP asepct fo game. Money in use other places than shopchannel, for social stuff. (Like doc having a medical office to offer Implant surgery) Make a hospital. Also other auction houses, trade houses (were ppl can act as shops) engineering houses, etc. were professions can offer theyr service.

For the ppl having more money than they ever need, more higher "moneysinks" must be added. Special higher shops, with profession based clothes requiring certain levels to equip. (A special surgery outfit for Doc+100, slightely changed for +125/+150 and a completely new one at lvl 200) - Dark special clothes for agent (why should they go around in color armor? They are supposed to be conseald) Diffrent types for diffrent landscapes. require lvl +100, slighly improved +125/+150 - new ones at lvl 200. Use creativity making such clothes.

Guild clothes and houses. Houses ranging a long range of quality from barracks to city high-houses and castles and lots og other stuff. If u FC do some work, make them customizable when ppl buy/build em, and moer ppl add, the more it cost. Include a bar to buy drinks, disco etc. nodrop keys for the guild-people, and leaders can give extra timer-based keys to out-of-guild ppl.

Larger range of vehicles, customizable colors etc. Taxis to carry extrapassenger, bus to carry team or more ppl, costing ALOT.

Ppl could buy new appartments, with view over the city and a own bar, kitchen. With bathrooms of diffrent qualitys, living room etc etc. Own stereo wich u can play tunes on. (improve sound in game, downloadable packs with extra sets of sounds and melodys to game, or include in a patch)

And not just add the sit emote, but also /lie-down to lie down on a bed or something. Also for surgey, ppl should have to lie down (if the throw out clinicks and let doc do the surgery work)

Design tons of social stuff, improving the pleasure in doin RP stuff, and making the surroundings more colorful

[_______________Garzu]

Nano armor is VERY easy to find now, infact its the armor i find most often. I have at least 30 parts im not using, all from ql 140-200. I loot it every day. I have even started to sell to the vendor and give away, because nobody wants to buy it, its to easy to get. But i remember that Basic nano armor was very hard to find, dunno about this now. Nano armor is very often found in human mob missions.

[___________Illuvatar]

Originally posted by Axist
What doctors u see in Yalmahas, they have either worked extremely hard for it, got hughe donations, or bought credits on eBay.

That's bull****. Equip a doc with a decent shotgun, and let him buy some good self/single heals, and he will be one of the most powerful chars you can have, both for hunting mobs, doing missions and PvPing.

[_______________Axist]

A combat doc with shotgun makes a decent fighting char, and have advantages cause of the hughe HP the heals make. But i dont see this as 'powerfull' for hunting (as a fighter), neither missions. Missions will take ****loads of time cause shotgun are slow, relies on crits, and all the heals will block the ranged init.

For a noncombat doc, the quote will be correct, *before* the money in monsterparts came into game. I see now the big buisness in monsterparts, helping docs out financially very good when they get the buisness rolling.

So if FC threw out Treatment clinics also, and let doc do the surgery, it starts getting good.