So, what about docs?

[yurp]

Avoid getting aggroed?
Ok.

Heres one nice thing that happened today (again), I was in PM at shade camp, my group standing well away from the camp. Puller goes in. Guess he shoots something to pull. Next thing, I get 6-8 (didnt bother to count more accurately) aggros out of NOWHERE, I just see a ****load of shades running at me without any reason. Dont need to guess what happens next.

Exping at 60+ is a serious pain and VERY frustrating due to repetive deaths.

But enough noise out of me. Thanks to this funcoms **** up, my doc is now too retired. I'm not wasting any more time trying to level or play with a doc char.

You people in funcom HAVE to unplug your heads from your asses if you want to keep your customers. Just fyi.

[______Biffstatsnugly]

I think the problem lies mostly with the HOT's and team hp buff's. As everyone knows that team heals argo monsters, i think something that people might be missing is....well team hp buff's also argo monsters. Yes this is correct If you cast a team hp buff well guess what in afew seconds it is going to heal everyone in your team afew hp which counts as on the same lines as you healing them. which puts you on the hate list of all mob's that are attacking the puller. now if there are alot of mob's that means maybe 1 or 2 have the puller on the top of the hate list becuase he or maybe someone else is actively attacking the mob. Now as for the rest of the mob's well you are also on that list, and the next time you team or or your hp buff team heals you go to the top of the list if someone in your team does not iniate combat with that mob.

This can cuase mob's that where chasing the puller back to the group to arrgo the Doc before anyone else has a chance to iniate combat. Which is just bad programming, i dont think FunCom meant for team HP buffs to argo MOB's. I dont see a engineer's sympathy line argoing Mob's becuase his DOT was recast on me in mid fight? HOT's i might can see argo'ing but not team HP Buff's there is no good reason??? How would the MOB know that a buff i cast prior to him being around was healing the PC he was beating on? No RP explanation, no real world explanation, not even a game balancing issue. So all that is left is has too be either a over sight or a bug. Just my 2 cents.

[___________Chirurgie]

yah, I like all you fellow doctors feel the pain...death rate (mine that is) is definately up since patch...but at same time, the excitement and tension can also be rewarding...

as Tukan wisely (as usual) pointed out, the KEY factor is having a good team, particularly a Tank who can pull aggro off you...and by this you need the HIGHEST AGGRO ENHANCER he can equip (with maximising psycho. mod.)...Mongo taunts aren't much good after level 60ish..sadly this is lacking in most tanks (and this is not necessarily just enforcers...I have seen many good soldiers and even an Atrox MA with good enhancers)

so, should we change things? KOS is definately troublesome but as someone pointed out, this is due to team buff and as such in my next few hunts, I am going to try without them...and I suspect it will not be missed either..most of the time it is healing everyone when only the tank really requires it...

careful controlled single heals (with a team properly pulling of course and adequately attracting aggro..) is still possible and belive it or not, it is not always instant aggro-causing..


so...anything a doctor needs from Funcom then?..I belive rather than turning down aggro, a nano which somehow reduces or deflect aggro would be most appreciated....and for my long standing cause, some form of HE like the NT's would be most welcomed (as the one thing that WILL happen when a mob is on you is running out of nano quick plus it helps save us money!)

I am level 72 btw and I plan to go on playing a doc...so though we are not on the danger of extinct species, we are definately a dwindling numbers...and that would not be nice...

[Lumin]

if the doc gets aggroed and killed it just means that the group is to incompetent (and I dont mean each players .. just the group as the whole) a good group manage to aggro the mob off the doc or kill it before it do any harm (thats why there are aggro items and programs out there for instance)

[Mysticknight]

Originally posted by Lumin
if the doc gets aggroed and killed it just means that the group is to incompetent (and I dont mean each players .. just the group as the whole) a good group manage to aggro the mob off the doc or kill it before it do any harm (thats why there are aggro items and programs out there for instance)

then 95% of the teams out there are incompetant

I play a Doc and an Enforcer
so i have some experience from both perspectives
Tank and Doc
why punish the 95% of the people in a knee/jerk response
Instant agro has caused alot of docs to quit playing docs
alot more people have noticed this just wish they would use the forums to voice their take on this issue

[XtroXtreme]

I think part of the problem with the "incompetent groups" not using aggro enhancers is the fact that you usualy don´t have place for them because your NCU mem if filled upp with buffs of all kinds. Practicaly every Tank profession have blue Comp Lit skill, and everyone don´t have a special implant set to put on good belt and NCU memory.

[yurp]

And most people dont seem to understand the power of rooting, I've seen otherwise not so damage dealing groups take on HUGE loads of mobs, like 10 or so at same time with AoE rooting.
Then my group walzes up, pulls couple and I die in 20 secs.

[Lumin]

then 95% of the teams out there are incompetant

perhaps.. I have been in soooo many teams where they do not care about their doc at all .. that realy pisses me off and as an Adventurer its not much I can do (as I got no aggro program and the other solution is to spend money and needed IP on some buggy item)
When playing my Soldier I always tell the doc to shout when he/she gets attacked cause it might be that I do not notice it .. when he/she does I usualy manage to aggro the mob of within 5 sec (and 5 sec should a doc atleast hold unless your hunting uber GMs with blown up leets as guards)

Also taking on 1 creature at the time also helps not getting the doc aggroed .. well it means that you basicly got more controll and the chance of geting killed is suddenly going way down and thats not always fun I agree

but a good group that value their doc and make sure he/she stays alive no matter what often has no to little problem with docs getting killed by aggro from the mobs.

I can agree that the aggro should perhaps be a little less so that the doc in some cases does not get instant aggro.
Also adding that if the conceal had worked perhaps it would help the doc to stay concealed .. would actually make it a bit usefull for them aswell not being spoted by the mobs.

a good solution I have seen is to see the following .. if the doc dies more often than the Tank/Tanks then it means that the Tanks care to much about themself and to little about the doc and hence the group wont make much XP unless they are realy lucky. I usulay quit these groups (and no not in a middle of the fight as some does ).

[_____________Truwind]

I do want to shed light on why you guys are getting agro alot.

Ok we all know that getting on a hatelist is based on Healing or Dmg output. Now let me explain this to you.

Ill take my Team heal buff ( infuse life , you know the one that lasts for an hour and regens 100ish points of dmg every so often )

You cast that before battle as we all do. Well every 30 secs you get a message saying " You have healed blah blah for X hitpoints"

That heal incurs agro.

Say your tank is pulling 2 red mobs. He shoots one getting 5 point of hate (based on him doing dmg to that mob) while the other is at 1 hate (just for agro purposes).

As hes running back your Team buff heals him. Because the tank already has agro on BOTH mobs when the mobs *sense* anyone helping them (ie doc) you incur agro. Sooo you end up healing the tank for 150 points. Giving you 3 points of hate.

Do the math. Mob 1 has 5 points of hate from the soldier minus the 3 you gave him for healing thus that mob still has 2 hatepoints on the tank

The other mob has 1 hate point minus 3 from your team buff. Thus the mob turns on you and agros beacuse you have the highest amount of hate.


Its kinda hard to explain and I did a shoddy job of it, but I think you get the point.

Best way to pull. Tank hits all mobs as hes pulling or Enforces mongo slams

[Mysticknight]

1 team heal instantly pulls all mobs to the doc
in a team with 6 people and 2 mobs
3 on 1 and 2 on the other
do a team heal,instantly both mobs switch to the doc
your math on mob hate does not explain this case
as a noncombat doc this instant agro totally screwed me

[Whiterrabbit]

think about it, if two mobs are fighting a team, then the mobs have "hatepoints" for each member of the team, and then the doc casts a team heal, he is assisting each and every member of the team, so that generates +2 hatepoints per team member. the mobs now have 10 hatepoints to the doc, so switch to him.

i think that truwinds theory is very good, and sound. as it explains aggro behaviour.

[yurp]

Yes, Truwinds explanation is good, and most likely accurate. BUT, it is stupid. Lets start thinking monsters intelligence. Sure, I can understand that homo solitus, opifex, nano or atrox type mobs understand "what" a doc is and that he is healing since they are intelligent. But mostly, groups outside hunt animals, or some mutant crap, both equipped with IQ of about 2-4. So, how the hell every mob in game understands to attack a doc? Some damn mutant drooling idiot sure as hell does not understand to attack a healer, much less any animals. If funcom would "at least" change the aggro so that its more realistic and only "intelligent" mobs would aggro like hell on docs, I could live with it.

[Mysticknight]

since i retired my doc, ive been sitting back and watching groups
9 times out of 10 the doc dies
the doc that doesnt die
is a combat doc with evade skills
as a lvl 75 nanomage noncombat doc its too late for me to work on evade skills effectively
basically putting me out of business
i refuse to reroll my doc because
Im doing awesome with my engineer
no wasted IP in weapon skills like other engineers

[_______________Axist]

how can mobs know *who* casted teambuffs and aggro on doc? this must be a bug? (if this is what really happends when mobs aggro doc without any obvious reason)

Or maybe the mobs does shift-left click and checks who is doc and decides to get that friggin doc.

*If* this is a bug, i can understand why the aggro is so damn bad. Cause doc then have a bunch of hate-points before battle really have started, and it stays up cause doc have to heal him/herself as fast as possible, many times into the death and reclaim. As far as it comes to aggro mobs off doc, it usually works when its 1 or 2 mobs, but try get 5 mobs off a doc..

If its *not* a bug, i would like to see aggro go down somewhat, maybe sombody likes it, but i think its pretty clear that it makes stuff generally worse than good for the doctor profession.

As for the one that used to sit in car long away and teamheal, both things are nerfed: 1: u cant buff anything from car anymore 2: the everywhere in zone teamheal is nerfed into the range it was supposed to have by description.

If aggro is getting decreased abit (fixed if it is a bug) - and all other doc related bugs get fixed. The doc will be nice to play again for those who enjoy to patch up ppl (Did debuffs get fixed or not? It said in 13.4 build-notes, but not in the actualy patch notes that i could see)

Another problem doc had, the economic, have been far better after the monsterparts suddenly could be turned into blood sold for money with a bio-com. (and a little bit of XP to, wheee) - Now only the surgery clinics have to be thrown out to, and let doctors find theyr surgey knife instead

[________________bleh]

Life as a doc at the moment isnt any fun at all.

Im in the longest road dungeon, 4-5 mobs at each junction, no matter what my tank does 1-2 will always be chasing me. In certain area's its a joke, a single tick of regen from my long term hp buff will see 10-15 agro messages and hoards of mobs appear from nowhere and chase me about.

I cant stand and heal, thanks to recent patches every mob kicks arse, and 5 low greens/greys doing minimum damage to me depletes my nanomage HP in seconds.

Unless we are fighting a few mobs a fight (2-3 are fine, fixer and soldier take 1 each, trader can charm/root) will consist of a huge group of mobs chasing me until all bar 1 are dead. My usual group is doc, soldier trader, fixer. Even with roots, and trader charms fights are generally a farce, with 5-8 mobs frenzied on me until dead.

Auto attack SUCKS btw, for a tank to try and agro 4 mobs when he is autoattacking the first one is a nightmare. Change the agro bar every 10 seconds in a manic fight with 5 mobs ? More or less impossible...

Also. Line of Sight on our primary heals ? What the hell are you thinking ? The Line of Sight is incredibly bugged, and ive had heals blocked due to 1ft high plant pots and tiny columns.

Regardless of the logical approach taken (i.e in pvp we could kill the healer first) having the way over the top mob agro on healers JUST ISNT ANY FUN and games when games arent fun they aint worth playing. The person who does mob AI should be forced to play a doc for a month, if indeed, he plays the game at all ... i doubt it.

[Lumin]

now how wonderfull would it not be if the adventurer class could cast a aggro reducing nano on the docs to keep em from getting aggroed and in the run it would help the adventurers so they could be somewhat usefull for a group.

[Letah]

Just a newyears-bump

Aggro needs to be turned down a tad, or at least remove our teambuff aggro.

Also fix our BROKEN debuffs (1 hit its gone, lol) and fix the nano who removes hostile buffs; maybe add a few psy/sens nps too.

Biomech cloak - wear in chest. Biomech chest - wear in chest
wtf? always been like that, why dont they fix it? Kinda obvious bug eh?

Oh and if you're doing some gfx on cloak pleaeaeaease change that geeky helmet lol.

Other then that Im content aboyt my doc Wear ql160 elite with ql180 implants, being lvl 106 I cant complain with that. Need money as doc? Do high ql missions with an nt and a soldier

Letah

[fallentci]

Ya'll are right: having the perfect team is the answer.

Is there anything more tedious than finding a perfect team (other that perhaps watching the trade channel)? Tedious does not equal challenging. TEDIOUS != CHALLENGING.

[___________Illuvatar]

Originally posted by Doctortease
You have no clue wtf your talking about. All we are asking is NOT TO GET AGROO AS SOON AS THEY SEE US. U try playing a doc to lvl 60 solo, it dont happen bud. lvl one and then tell us how u feel .

and fixers ? bah, there the money making class now.

and why does adv need reworked??? my lvl 60 does fine with ql 110 bowsplits.

btw, the class that needs FIXED is the soldier, they suck ass after lvl 80, atleast some other classes can solo. a soldier CANT.

1) If you chose to play a Doc, you chose not to play a badass fighter, you should understand that. Kinda the part of being a doc, and laming about a doc not being a uber soldier with badass heals, is just too retarded.

2) Agreed, Fixers have no reason to whine at all, if they do, it's because they suck at playing their char, not because the class sucks.

3) I wouldn't know **** about adventureres, except I know most of them are useless, unless they actually found a way to make their char uber. But this again comes back to the issue with the doc. Nobody would, or should, expect a class named Adventurer to be badass fighters.

4) Soldiers needing fixes.... that's the most retarded thing I have ever seen. Soliders suck over level 80? Oh please. Find me 1 PvP'er that can take out armycastaway and his MK 10 shield PLEASE. Untill you can find that 1 person, shut the f*ck up.

[_______________Esmee]

) If you chose to play a Doc, you chose not to play a badass fighter, you should understand that. Kinda the part of being a doc, and laming about a doc not being a uber soldier with badass heals, is just too retarded.

you know that is such a dumb thing to say i can't even comment on it.