PvP in OT-Clan war

[Hremic]

A question many have asked themselves lately: Where is the war? Where is the fighting we see in the magnificent intro?

Why not simply make a war like that? Impossible with the system we have now. The only PvP is in Ent, Tir and Newland Arenas. I've been to the political zones between OT and Clan many times, rarely see a single enemy there.

So here's my suggestion: Two constant lines of NPCs constantly gunning at each other. They are precisely of similar strenght, same respawn rate, and the front does not move, neither forward or backward... until a Player starts to meddle with it....

With the help of Players, one line would slowly beat the other line and push it backwards. The result is a constant war moving forward and backward across the zone, where you can join independently of events and such. Of course the hate list of NPCs have to be modified, so that you can attack them and survive, so that they won't target Players until those do enough damage independently of their own NPC allies.

Behind the main "trenches", you can have guns attacking enemy Players who go too far into the other's territory without being hindered. Then you may have AA guns with superior range only attacking Players in Yalmahas.

A little bit more: When I say NPCs, I do not only mean infantry, but also Armor, Howitzers, Mortars and hovering Gunships, equally shared, so that they keep the front unchanged unless Players arrive. Now who wouldn't agree on that to blast a Gunship with bullets and nukes for a while, then with satisfaction see it fall to the ground and explode into a billion pieces, would certainly add a new dimension to PvP and the War in general?

[______________Zeplan]

excellent idea Thardlerian. I think that would be a very exciting idea and would bring a new dimension into the game. I think everybody will agree that being stuck into missions/team missions
because nobody hunts anymore (MAKE HUNTING WORTH WHILE, HUNTING = MORE FUN THAN MISSIONS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, ETC). I would personally love to see this happen, it would at least help stop the monotony of these motherfuc*ing missions. (If you havn't picked up from my thread I HATE MISSIONS).

[____________Kinnopio]

I like it, but there's lots of problems... Would you get a reward compareable with doing a mission? If not, no one will do it after the first month or so it's in the game. What level are the NPCs there? Can a level 30 player help out without getting gunned down in a nanosecond, and if not will a level 200 run rampant there? What happens when one side reaches the other end of the zone? What happens when one side pushes the other side back past their trenches and stationary guns? Would you be able to just run over and join the battle at a whim? Could you pack it up and go home if you choose?

[Hremic]

There are certainly a lot of problems with the idea.

As I said about the hate list, NPCs would me modified not to fire at players unless those do a major part of the damage. A lvl 30 could help turn the tables (not much, but that would not be very logical either) without risking his own life, unless there are similar-lvl players on the other side. A lvl 200 could easily beat several of the infantry NPCs, but there would be 200s on the other side to prevent them from being too strong. Eventually, the Gunships and Artillery could aggro those who are too strong after a while. Same counts if one side gets too strong generally.

The point is, as a player, you can go fairly near the other line without getting shot at by NPCs.
About rewards... there is no other PvP reward than titles and the fun of it.

I've been thinking of the zone lines, that would be a rather big problem. One solution would be to call in a GM or something, and respawn the whole thing in the other zone.
As this battle is constantly ongoing, you can join and leave any time you want, independent of guild and events.
This would actually be OT-Clan war as we all imagined it before we learned the actual arena/raid system.

Of course, it doesn't have to be constant. You could have it going on for a couple of days, then have a similary long break.

[_______bunderscratch]

Great idea. Will not be implemented. We will have crappy dynocamps instead.

[Snuble]

I don't think the war between OT/Clan is of that character. Its not the type of conflict that would create trench warfare. Its more a cross between guerilla (I hate spelling!) warfare and mideval city warfare.

The natural battles (with the expection of an all out interplanetary supported Omni attack...) would be traps set by each side. And those are perfectly mirrored by the gankers

One more thing, war is 95% waiting and 5% action. A constantly waring frontline would be fun. The game version of the 95/5 rule is (to keep things fun...) 5/95. Its also a fact that only 20% of soldiers in WW2 ever fired their guns in combat... Everyone that hunts or fishes in RL knows the 95/5 rule

Perhaps a better idea would be random ambushes? Where a number of Clan NPC's get ambushed by a number of Omni NPC's or the other way around... Now you can help out, and if that happens in a 25% zone there would probably be a chain reaction of fights for the next 2 hours

[_________Superblanka]

hmm..why would we fight if we cant win anything..?
the idea is nice, but the lag prevents it from ever being any fun, plus, like mentioned, if u get to beat down the enemy a long way...what can u win? it should be possible to take over cities, or at least outposts...but NOOOOoooo...thats not possible.... cause that would actually be fun, so therefor it wont be implemented

[Cerber]

Well very creative idea but, why would a war in far future be in trenches, even modern war consist of 85% of ambushes, and urban warfare.

Plus, the most important thing, why would you think Clans would have a chance against OmniTek in a direct war?
Dont forget Omnitek is a Galaxy wide megacorparation with its own starfleet. Now imagine what force they can gather against Clans...
And if you will look at history of RK you will see that Clans already lost 2 direct war conflicts. After all nothing stops Omnitek from droping nukes on clan territory, that will not harm pressures Notum.

I think realisticly war should be in a place of urban fights and guriella type warfare.

[Hremic]

The points about guerilla warfare and ambushes might be true, but they're not very suitable in this game. This is the way it works right now, and as we all se, it doesn't work at all.

A guerilla war would simply not have room for all the players, when the playfield is so small. It would be privileged for the elite, in other words tweaks and prominent guilders. All fighting would be based on guild leader moods alone, wether they want to fight a war today, or camp the mission booths for that piece of armor. And, of course, wether they are online or not. Setting up a raid consumes a lot of time, and very many players simply don't have that.

Clearly stated in the manual, Sol Banking Corporation would ally with Clans to prevent OT from taking over the whole planet. Wether this is good for the Clan cause is another thing, but it balances the power. Sol is almost as strong as OT. ICC would prevent anyone from using nukes, by the way, why haven't OT used them yet? There's nothing preventing them from doing it right now.

Answer: This is a game, not real life, as several of you have compared it with. There should be opportunities and fun for everyone, and with the trench war, even lvl 1 players could join in and actually feel they're doing _something_.

Random ambushes? How would people learn that it happens? Only way is to have GMs or bot put it in planetwide chat. Then about 1/2 of all online people would join in. People would have to walk through dangerous wildlife, just to find that the server has crashed/the battle is over, because 5k players thought the same as them, and clustered together in one spot.

Edit: The word "trench" is not really what I mean, I just don't know about any other word to describe it with.

[___________Methander]

Thought about this myself when I saw a hated Omni-Tek rifle firing scum taking out the guards at Tir and I could do nothing more to him than moon him.

Of course, actually shooting at him would have caused my instant death, for he would have squashed me like a bug, but I couldn't even *try*.

I wonder if it is possible to selectively remove the suppresion gas from a character who attacks a guard. Sounds complicated, programming wise: identifying the guards in a city differently than the leets newbies are hunting, reclassifying a character in a zone. I guess I'll go back to rude emotes and the like.

Meth

[Cozy]

As I hate wars I don't really care if some sort of it is ever implemented. But, funwise it doesn't matter if it has anything to do with how wars will be fought in 29k. I doubt there will be any shots fired at all. I mean, we now fire bullets, throw grenades, use bows??? Unless civilization was practically wipped out and rebuilt do you really think somebody would do it except maybe bows for fun? As it is now this is a strange mixture of SF and currently available technology. But we seem to enjoy it and don't exactly disect every aspect of it. As long as it's fun who cares...
Ambushes? Hmm, why not? Let's say you have an option to set when you log in. If you do, then you are constantly in PvP zone. One side sends few agents in the other's side backyard. If they are discovered they get killed (prolly). If not, as that prominent leader of XYZ Guild walks down the street...bang!..few aimed shots...omg, they've killed Kenny .
I also hate it when I sit waiting for team to assemble and some hotshots come by and shoot down guards. What, you just got your a55 kicked in PvP and came here to vent?

[Hremic]

Originally posted by Isis
As I hate wars I don't really care if some sort of it is ever implemented. But, funwise it doesn't matter if it has anything to do with how wars will be fought in 29k. I doubt there will be any shots fired at all. I mean, we now fire bullets, throw grenades, use bows??? Unless civilization was practically wipped out and rebuilt do you really think somebody would do it except maybe bows for fun? As it is now this is a strange mixture of SF and currently available technology. But we seem to enjoy it and don't exactly disect every aspect of it. As long as it's fun who cares...
Ambushes? Hmm, why not? Let's say you have an option to set when you log in. If you do, then you are constantly in PvP zone. One side sends few agents in the other's side backyard. If they are discovered they get killed (prolly). If not, as that prominent leader of XYZ Guild walks down the street...bang!..few aimed shots...omg, they've killed Kenny .
I also hate it when I sit waiting for team to assemble and some hotshots come by and shoot down guards. What, you just got your a55 kicked in PvP and came here to vent?

Ambushes? Hmm, why? That's just a little bit more advanced than the arena system we have right now. Kill a Guild leader... so what? He's gonna respawn immediately anyway. No damage done. Only thing it does is proving that some Agent has a Yalmaha and a rifle capable of AS. Meaningless.

Mix the PvP War with the envisioned ability to hold territories, on the universal scale just as meaningless as Guild leader killing, but it will hold people's attention for a longer time, because capturing an outpost can actually have consequenses for the war, at least a little. If you lose territory, you would actually have to fight to get it back.

Don't know who you're referring to when you talk about getting "a55" kicked, but for your interest, I've not been PvPing since my lvl 20 adv got sniped during his first visit to Newland Arena back in October 2001. Anyway, that was a rather irrelevant, childish and unfocused comment.
Have a look at the intro, that's the best thing I've seen in AO.

[________WARisCOMEING]

look people there WONT BE ANY WAR!!!

funcom is trying realy hard patch it so we are playing betty homemaker with bob omni

WE DONT NEED 75% and 100% zones but good old funcom and there team of over payed monkeys seen to think we do

there is no war there is no story we are playing anesthesia online better know as the sims 14.2.2

funcom dont have a clue how there own game is sapost to be...

so give out all the ideas you want there NOT going to lissen to us in less we are a bunch of care bare cry babys that cry cuz a class is better then them or that gun hitt's harder then mine nurf it so ill do better im realy getting to the point of leaveing this game cuz funcom is a joke just like there patchs

we will never get a war

Haven't you all realized yet that this game is never going to be any more than what it is now..
anarchy is A BIG JOKE!!!

that we was brain washed to beleaving that it was a GRATE mmorpg that was a war...
so they get are money and we are still beta testing the game on a live serv so if i was you i would leave this game as soon as SWG comes out
funcom will never have a clue on how this game is sapost to be cuz they got a team of idiots and monkeys that love redruum and the little cry baby care bare that have pushed this game in to SIMS

[MissMaul]

Okay, seeing as I doubt anyone reads War's posts for erratic capitalization/spelling mistakes/whiny pessimistic rants, I will continue...

This is seriously the best idea I have ever seen. The players would feel like they had an impact on the war, and with enough work it could be really cool. Funcom could allow the players to even take control of gunships, and overall it would just be...awesome.

Hey Funcom- look over here.

/me awards Thaladerian with a '1 Free Executive-class Bump' coupon- effective immediately.

[Cozy]

Originally posted by Thadlerian
Ambushes? Hmm, why?
For the fun of it?

Kill a Guild leader... so what? He's gonna respawn immediately anyway. No damage done. Only thing it does is proving that some Agent has a Yalmaha and a rifle capable of AS. Meaningless.
Exactly. No damage done, yet someone got a good thrill out of it. And if you're just gonna fly in and camp the street you're gona get spotted. And killed prolly.


Mix the PvP War with the envisioned ability to hold territories, on the universal scale just as meaningless as Guild leader killing...
Maybe, but then one could say that about a lot of things in this game. Don't take it too serious


Don't know who you're referring to when you talk about getting "a55" kicked...
If you don't find yourself in the above, then what is it to you?


Anyway, that was a rather irrelevant, childish and unfocused comment.
Excuse me, master of relevant, mature and focused comments then. If I loose half a level worth of xps coming back from a mission to some hotshot who prolly bit more than he (doubt it was she) could chew attacking a guard and is saving his a55 by nuking the spot...at least I think I'm entitled to comment. I don't really mind. Mission was fun and exciting and I'm in no hurry. I just like whys and hows. So sue me.


Have a look at the intro, that's the best thing I've seen in AO.
Each to its own.

[Dibond]

What would us MA's do if we r shooting from trenches??

[Hremic]

"For the fun of it?"
Sure, give it a try! Might prove to be as fun as single missions!

"If you don't find yourself in the above, then what is it to you?"
A little digression: Why should I care to call a plumber if a basement full of water is the only prove that a water pipe is leaking? After all, I don't know anything about plumbing, so why care?

"Excuse me, master of relevant, mature and focused comments then. If I loose half a level worth of xps coming back from a mission to some hotshot who prolly bit more than he (doubt it was she) could chew attacking a guard and is saving his a55 by nuking the spot...at least I think I'm entitled to comment. I don't really mind. Mission was fun and exciting and I'm in no hurry. I just like whys and hows. So sue me."
Excuse me, master of stunning, intelligent, mind-piercing irony, I found your first post in a bit disorder and difficult to follow. Was that "a55-kicking" comment a part of guard killing paragraph, or a final conclusion as an answer on my post?
Anyway, that hotshot would certainly not risk a half level worth of XP, so why help him? Like the aforementioned Guild leader, he would simply respawn unhurt. Why would you complain about XP loss if you are in no hurry?


lanemckenzie16:
Like the enforcers and most adventurers, the MAs would not stand in the trenches, (forgive me for using that word, I don't really mean it, I just can't find any other) but walk over to the other side, using melee attacks on the enemy. The other side NPCs would not hurt them until those melee players start hurting them badly. If melees get overwhelmed, friendly gun players could cease attacks on NPC gunners, and start helping their melee friends by moving forward. All this would of course happen far ahead of the guns securing the area behind the front.
Check my signature! My main char is MA too!

[Cozy]

Ok, so now this is officially master to master talk . All not worthy stay out
As for basement full of water, who said you should. Drop in few fishes...that plumber will probably only rip you off anyway.

Nah, that comment was only something I had on my mind at the moment. Thought of opening a thread, but who cares anyway. Help him? No, I said I was coming from a mission and run into a fight between somebody and guard at the gates. That somebody nuked the place and I died as an innocent bystander (byrunner to be exact). I'm not whining about it. Only thing I wanted to know was, where's the point in killing guards.
Must be some are taking this war debate into production already .

[Hremic]

Let's try not to get too off-topic here

MissMaul: FunCom would certainly not allow players to control heavier armament than their own standard weapons. The reason for that is that very soon, a player would run away with his hovering gunship, just to gun down Uber monsters, which cannot fight back on a flying enemy. Gunships and other machinery would be NPC only, though GMs could control them in events and such.

[______________Racius]

That's an incredible idea.