>> CLAN's advantage <<

[____________Ejeckted]

"... which can be made up for with just chemistry AC nano clusters instead of both imp / pro AND melee martial arts clusters... look at the slots that chemistry AC would fit as opposed to imp / proj clusters... there is a DEFINITE advantage to Elite... but this isnt just about Elite armor. "

no, you cannot.
unless to want your implants to require SENSE
pretty f'n uselss for the professions that are able to use Elite (Chemical AC clusters almost always force the sence req..
go download nanonanny and see for yourself)

so, again, EVERY clan player should get skill bonuses
just because SOME omnis get 'kewl' looking black armor?

blah

the whole advantage/disadvantage system is non-existant.
save the side-politics for ingame.

And, yes, only combat advantages can be considered.
Because in a fight only AC / skill points / weapon QL / and atk rating matter.
"haha, you may hit harder than me, but i spent 8K less on my Q125 implant set than you!"

. . right.

[_________KrazyKanuck]

Originally posted by PoPRawkZ
CaptFallout is not an idiot, he just hasnt thought this through. He like everyone else who is a declared Omni is just being selfish at this point and dont want to see clans even up the playfield.

No man you should read more of this guys posts. He is a absolute idiot. I would wager everyone in his so called guild is just more or his own accounts everyone else would be too embarrassed to call this moron their leader.

[Downsizr]

Mmmh... really people I feel compeled to say :


Take these flames away.
Make a specific thread.


I'd rather see your energy diverted to creative inputs.
I'd like to see the first omni post an idea here too. That would be quite helpful (just sorry for the ones that hinted at some things but didn't elaborate much).

[lilnymph]

Firstly I would like to say I would like to see The Clans getting an advantage to even things up (I'm an omni player). However I would like to see it as something that would make sense with the Background. The organisation advantages seem to make some sense, however all the calls for increased skills or better equipment don't. Historically rebel or guerrilla forces are badly equipped and trained. Their main advantage is their knowledge of their home territory and loyalty to the cause. This being the case, perhaps the Clans should be given a larger advantage in clan territory, or maybe have much reduced map skill requirements for using the maps of clan areas? Another Idea maybe to not give the Clans any specific advantage, but to give Omni some disadvantage to balance out. After all in the manual it says that the clan lifestyle is more freewheeling, while Omni is restricted and more uniform. perhaps something like this could be put into place?

On a separate note, The clans are not fighting a guerrilla war, as they gave up the ability to do that when they took control of the North and built cities, which they now have to defend. The Situation is closer to the American war of Independence, with a small, badly equipped and train force taking on the overwhelming might of a Well equipped, well trained army, though one that doesn't understand the local terrain as well. It should also be noted that this war, like that one, will probably only be won with the intervention of another power on the behalf of the Clans, Like the French for the Americans, as on their own the Clans don't have the manpower, infrastructure or equipment to take on a Corporation that owns a huge number of star systems.

[____________PoPRawkZ]

"with a small, badly equipped and train force"

Well... I dont know about small, we are almost as big as Omni-tek and it looks like if we ever get any advantages to even us out most of Omni-teks employees say they'd join up by the looks of this thread...

Off Topic

"probably only be won with the intervention of another power on the behalf of the Clans, Like the French for the Americans"

As an American who has picked up at history book at least once in his life, would not attribute the winning of the American revolution to the assistance from the French. For one, they fought against us for a longer time than they assisted us. Also there is no proof we would have lost if they had not assisted us. We can however say that their assistance helped to end the war much quicker than it might have taken -- no disrespect to Gummizluv (you are French right?) but the French just seem to bend to whatever force might give them the worse beating. WWII anyone?

On Topic

SOL Banking Corporation is rumored to be secretly funding the Rebel clans to help get their foot hold on Rubi-Ka. So if you wonder where a third power is? There ya go. Its funny that not a word about SOL Banking Corporation has been mentioned since the original manual publication. Perhaps SOL BC will be giving us SOL Elite Armor! Ya! Not to mention SOL Tank Armor. Oooh SOL sounds so much cooler than OT. We should get SOL credit cards that gives us frequent killer miles, for every OT employee we run over.

Peace,
-PoPRawkZ

[Downsizr]

Originally posted by PoPRawkZ
no disrespect to Gummizluv (you are French right?) but the French just seem to bend to whatever force might give them the worse beating. WWII anyone?

LOL this cumulates many qualities : it's disrepectful, off-topic and indicate that you have to check your books again. Email me I can educate you a bit (no offense taken though).

Now back to the subject.

I hinted some points in my initial post that I was too lazy to develop.

Do we think that clan advantages could be about the land they control ?

Some rough ideas :

- slight run speed increase in clan territories
- slightly better evades
- better access to maps
- direction / mob upgrade free for uploaded clan maps
- better spawns
- more static dungeons
- better loot tables (ie more usable items and less crap)
- more monster parts (more power to clan docs)

A good analogy that was used in this thread was Empire vs. Rebels. Another one that can be used too is Fremens vs. Arkonens in DUNE : a tribal society with millions of people hiding in barrens lands with their own crafted equipment, fighting an intergalatic power.

(The petition for claners getting full blue eyes will be posted soon )

[lilnymph]

I think this would be a good idea (hence my last post) to at least in some way base the clans advantage on their own land. It would also give the Clans an incentive to capture territory, if this option is brought in by FunCom, so they can increase the area of their advantage. And Also give Omni a reason to capture it (to remove the advantage). My main ideas would be better (lower stats) access to maps, and maybe slightly increased run speed and concealment (if this starts to work again) inside clan controlled territories.

As to the Clans being almost the same size as Omni Tek, Yes they are almost the same size as Omni-Tek, Rubi-Ka, but compared to Omni-Tek itself, they are insignificant. The only reason they are still there, and the conflict is still there is Omni-Tek for the most part doesn't see them as a threat, and its attention is focused on the other Hyper corporations.

Off Topic.

This is what I meant before about the American war of independence. while the French direct help may or may not of won the war, or even helped, it was the fact that the British didn't see the Americans as a threat, or America as that important, compared with Europe, and in particularly France. So the Americans only had to fight the colonial garrison and some reinforcements, while most of the British army was busy defending against possible and real French and other nations attacks elsewhere. If that had not been the case, and the Americans had had to face the full might of the British army, it would have taken a lot longer for them to gain independence. This is the situation on rubi-ka. at the moment the Clans just have to fight the forces of Omni-Tek already here. However, if Omni-Tek really wises up to how much of a threat the Clans are, or how important Rubi-Ka really is to its business, then the clans are in serious trouble. So from a storyline point of view, the Clans should be trying to make friends amongst the other corporations, and keep Omni-Tek from turning its full attention on the little dirt ball we all call home.

[___________Jamescole]

Clans could be aloud to pull guild together and claim a small piece of land as PVP if they. PVP would last 24 hours. ONce piece of land was claimed it would take 72 hours for it to turn into pvp a call would go out to omni and clan that his was going to take place in 72 hours. The pvp would last 24 hours and whoever won the pvp. most kills by guilds not solo. would win the land. if it was naked land a insurance term and guard would be place there along with maybe a store. Use imagination and see this post....

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...?threadid=4916

[Venganxe-Ka-2]

I really like Deckers Idea!!!!!

Although seeing as how GM's are too "unable" to do that which is really in my beliefs a term for "We just dont care about you players this is for the book only because we want money and not satisfied players"

Well that is the impression I got from the evn staff when I spoke to an ARK today and the event staff were too scared to come and speak to me personally............

But okay lets look at the downside of this idea Deck.....UO syndrome as it has been put.......Once all the land is taken and reserved then what?

I believe your idea has merit though I think the desperate drive for land and the great strain this would place on the server would hardly be worth it.........Cosmik any thoughts?
~~~~

I would reccomend this..........Allow the possibility of guild barracks for Omni and Clan wherein a GM of a guild sends a tell to a G.M. requesting a key for a specific "Clan appartment" and the house then becomes treated as an appartment and the G.M. gives the GM of the guild a key and a special duplicator for that key the key being unduplicatable by anyone aside from the GM or Guildmaster and the GM then hands duplicates to his members...........Good idea? Cosmik any feed back?......

[__________WGMelchior]

Check the in progress notes.

I REALLY hope they manage to pull those off.

[____________Viridius]

Ok, first off I am Omni but even I realize the clans need some kind of advantage. The idea of higher ip is rather a bit unbalancing (far more than Omni advantages in the long run, ip are worth way more than creds), a more reasonable option would be higher starting stats and skills, clanners have a tougher life in general so they SHOULD start out tougher. Beyond that Omnis advantages seem to be in equipment and money so perhaps the clan ones could be along the same lines but different. My idea is that clanners should be good at finding random equipment and adapting it for their use. What this would mean is that they could shift around their weapons stats to customize them, they item would perhaps get one free extra (a new attack mode, increased ammo, scope...) then the mods would balance them, you could increase the damage (bigger bullets, heavier blade) but it would slow it down a bit (loading mechanism less efficient, heavier blade) or the other way around, they could change the damage type by like 50%(a rifle modified to use bullets made of radioactive rounds, half regular, half radiation damage; a sword that emits acid, part regular, part chemical damage), they drop the skill to use a bit but it lowers the damage a little or slows it down slightly, stuff like that. This isn't the only thing that would work to help balance things but it would be fun to mess with I bet. Also please note that it is early in the morning for me, I haven't slept in a while so this idea isn't totally fleshed out and may seem bad if I were well rested but right now it seems like an interesting idea.

[____________Ejeckted]

not one to pull punches, i want to say the above idea is garbage.

what it basically says is only clanners should get usefull tradeskills.

given the above conditions 99% of players go clan.
(leaving the 1% who are committed to RPing Omnis)

of course, noone of importance will take the suggestion seriously,
so it doesnt matter.

-Scumbug,
RPing a bastard

[____________Viridius]

Not one to think much either I see. First off it would have to be worked on as to make it not overpowering. Second for each positive adjustment there would be a negative (after the first which kind of makes up for our financial advantage). It would allow them to be more customized which is more what the clans should be, omni would be more uniform clan would be less so. As for trade skills being useful only to clanners... please TRY to think before posting, those are being worked on for everyone. Obviously we will all be able to make armor and cloths in the future since there are machines to buy stuff for it. We can all make weapons and rings and such the way it is. The only people Omni would lose are the people who MUST have everything. My idea would give the clans an advantage, kind of like we have had. I don't see you claiming that the idea of us using our advantage is garbage. Would you rather we get rid of Omni only armors? And our lower prices/machines that pay more? They deserve an advantage, we have ours. I do think that Omni should get to modify weapons too just not as much ar nearly as easily, clans should get one free add on and it should be easier for them, they live a life that demands adaptability. As you said, noone of impotance will take this seriously, mainly though because they probably don't read these boards much. As demonstrated by your reply some people of absolutely no importance do read these boards though. Oh, by the way, I'm not one to pull punches either.

[____________Ejeckted]

go read any post re: tradeskills

what you are suggesting above is what every
trader/engineer has been begging for since beta.

you are saying that only half the playerbase (clan) should get it.

that's retarded

how many traders/engineers would be left on the Omni side?


I'll repeat my previous points.

Omni armor looks 'kewl' but it is not 'uber' since the
armor rebalancing and there are arguably better types
of armor now that have a less painful weakness.
(chemical is a bad AC to have so low, in PvM and PvP)

Most Omnis cant even use Omni armor because we're
not all enforcers and soldiers or atrox.
What about the 2/3 of Omnis who use armor with other reqs?
Where is thier 'advantage'?

Shop Prices? 5%? woohoo
who buys weapons and armor from stores?
not most of us . .
so I'm getting 1 credit off each ammo stack?
100 credits off each stack of treatment labs?
1000 credits more for selling that QL98 junk gun to a vendor?
(when you get 1-2K a body from looting mobs)
and someone above mentioned clanners can use omni
cluster machines .. so 'cheaper implants' isnt even an arguement.
Besides, in a fight, noones bank account matters.

any omni 'advantage' is superficial and not evenly dispersed among omni players.. therefore you cant give the clan side something as desired for as weapon mods and call that balanced.

[_____________Photeus]

The current Omni "advantage" is negligible at best to a large portion of omni players. I myself do not wear pol armor and the cash bonus is hardly a reason to give clanners any sort of advantage. Furthermore, no one has convinced me that clanners SHOULD have an advantage - how could a rebel faction in the outskirts of an insignificant desert planet compare with the might of an interstellar organisation such as Omni Tek? Imagined slights and advantages is hardly a reason to grant clanners an advantage.... from an RP point of view it dosent make sense.

However, if clanners MUST have something, give them an eqivalent "SOL" armor which has exactly the same stats or a "hacked" or "smuggled" (or whatever) pol armor line painted with really garish colours. Or even give them a slight exp bonus (i mean SLIGHT)... All this talk about skill bonuses, tradeskill preferences, etc is just going to unbalance the classes available to each side.

All clanners chose to break away from Omni Tek. That should be justification enough for the "disadvantages". Seriously ppl stop number crunching and consider the RP environment as a whole.

[____________Ejeckted]

the choice of which side to pick should come down to
RP / political reasons

right now, there are about the same amount of clanners
as there are omnis, with a small neutral minority.
so something is working . .

players should not be picking sides because one has some uber bonus.. therefore the bonuses to any side cannot be anything more than trivial things like a 5% discount in shops, or maybe as the above poster suggested a 1% exp bonus for clanners, however i think FC intended the clan advantage to be more related to guild setup and the old guild items in shops (like the +10 1HB etc) which some clan players not in guilds didnt like the idea of .. so. . who knows what FC is dreaming up now ..

hopefully a system where the Omni 'departments' also come into play somehow

:shrug:

so much of the game is unfinished it's hard to make guesses

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Greythorn
The current Omni "advantage" is negligible at best to a large portion of omni players. I myself do not wear pol armor and the cash bonus is hardly a reason to give clanners any sort of advantage. Furthermore, no one has convinced me that clanners SHOULD have an advantage - how could a rebel faction in the outskirts of an insignificant desert planet compare with the might of an interstellar organisation such as Omni Tek? Imagined slights and advantages is hardly a reason to grant clanners an advantage.... from an RP point of view it dosent make sense.

However, if clanners MUST have something, give them an eqivalent "SOL" armor which has exactly the same stats or a "hacked" or "smuggled" (or whatever) pol armor line painted with really garish colours. Or even give them a slight exp bonus (i mean SLIGHT)... All this talk about skill bonuses, tradeskill preferences, etc is just going to unbalance the classes available to each side.

All clanners chose to break away from Omni Tek. That should be justification enough for the "disadvantages". Seriously ppl stop number crunching and consider the RP environment as a whole.

So from a RP point of view this doesnt make sense? Hrmm..."how could a rebel faction in the outskirts of an insignificant desert planet compare with the might of an interstellar organisation such as Omni Tek? " Well, take a look at world history, you will quickly see that might is not enough, its the will to win that decides the outcome. Look at Vietnam and Russian invasion of Afghanistan and many more. We have much more to fight for than the omnis, from a RP point of view we really believe in our goals, and because of our strong will to win this war, we should get good advantages.

[Venganxe-Ka-2]

I agree Clans are determined while Omni have grown lazy........

Omni Tek has all they want they need to try for nothing they already have it.......

Whereas for Clans every day is a constant struggle and a fight for survival lets look at another RP game........D&D where the Barbarians whop live in harsh environments and have to fight and struggle daily to survive eat and make a way of life for themselves are nothing short of super characters and rightfully so they are stronger can endure more and run fast jump higher are healthier and better in the wilderness then average human beings..........

Clans live a life similar to the D&D barbarians and therefore deserve same as them better abilities better familiarity with their surroundings and since we unlike Omni arent accustomed to every road being paved faster run speed which in turn higher ability to jump etc.

Clans struggle and have to fight for everything they have which would make us better fighters most poor clans have to hunt to eat and make money which would make us better hunters....

Used to harsh terrain and environment and random surprise attacks from the things that live out there makes us stronger and more perceptive to surprise attacks as well as makes us more likely to survive then Omni.....

Omni Tek live on a set fixed income which I believe should show in the game maybe a "Paycheck" every week and a "Raise" every time they reach a new title level after all what company doesnt pay their employees?

I would have money appear in their account every three days as a pay check make shops that sell Omni Pol armor only and at ANY range of QL from 1-120 which seems to be the QL at which shops stop selling

I would like to see the Decus line go Clan only that would even out the Omni Pol armor and what better armor for a rebel clan then armor that originated millions of years ago?

It is Omnis life style that makes them wealthy and Clans lifestyle that makes them strong.........

Merely my thoughts.........

[_____________Photeus]

This is just a discussion not a flame...


History has proved time and time again that vast empires with more advanced technologies have conquered alot more territory than the odd rebel faction (see british, romans, mongols, need i go on?) So from an RP point of view my statement does make sense; and your point is conceeded but only as an exception not the rule.

My conclusions are drawn from facts - Omni ARE bigger, have access to more technology, etc. We have no evidence that Omni have "grown lazy" or that clan has superior fighting or survival abilities (unless i missed something significant somwhere which is possible). Hell, the reason empires succeed is mainly due to a superior fighting force, both in history and fiction.

And seriously, clanners arent exactly living in caves They have access to roughly the same amenities as OT - give or take a few luxuries (check out Athen etc sometime) so the "toughened by harsh life" line dosent really apply.

Sure, some omnis might be growing fat on pay cheques and luxury - it is feasible - but then omni-pol is primarily made up of criminals... trained on a harsh unforgiving planet... ever read Dune? Id liken the clanners to the town settlements on Arrakis(they are civilised) and not the Fremen, as i said clanners dont live in caves

So yeah unless Funcom plan some cataclysmic event that exterminates all clan cities and they live in caves for the next couple of thousand years, then i would be more than happy to accept clanners have some sort of wilderness survival and fighting benefits. But as it stands the major difference between clan and omni is in doctrine only. Some would say clan doctrine is a disadvantage in their current situation considering that Guerilla warfare isnt an option (clan have readily identifiable population centers and occupy territory) and they do not have superior funding or technology to support their independence and democratic efforts.

After all is said, i dont feel that history or other works of fiction should have any bearing on the conflict - this is Funcoms' story not anyone elses - i just replied to the critisisms of my post in a similar vein. For the above reasons and within the story context i still see no reason for clanners to have any distinct advantages that does not apply to OT.

Feel free to disagree with me and feel free to post a response... but please support your responses with some evidence that is applicable within the storyline... discussions like this are healthy and beneficial as long as they dont descend into flames.

LONG LIVE HOUSE CORRINO!!

.... err...i mean Omni Tek...

[______________Phikia]

/me Yawns...........NEXT subject please.