** NT Concerns/Wish List - June 2004 **

[Rahmorak]

OK, Cz will be passing our top 10 Concerns/wishes on to the Devs again next week so it is time for an update. Although I think the previous list was comprehensive, this time I want to try and be more focussed and more specific.

Concerns/Wish list:

1. Concern: Poor damage when using Cyberdeck nukes.
   NTs are currently far from top damage dealers when using cyberdeck nukes. The only time cyberdeck NTs approach top tier damage are when they are on RK or are able to use the 220 nuke. Damage improves a bit at 215+ when they have more Damage types to choose from in order to exploit the AC holes in SL MOBs and because they are starting to get enough Nano init to make the 'deck nukes better damage than RB+Weapon.
   Important Note: NTs have lost a large part of their defensive capabilities in SL and even the 220 nuke falls far short of making up for that deficiency, especially as it is also ODd in some scenarios (by lower level professions with far stronger defensive/healing ability) even though it is approx. 40% better than our other nukes.
2. Concern: Cast times on Cyberdeck nukes.
   The reason the 220 nuke is a lot better than the other spec 4 nukes is largely down to the lower cast time. The nukes seem to have been designed without the reduced effectiveness of nano init past 1200 and this means they scale very poorly, e.g. the 201 nuke requires 2250 nano to hit 2/1 at Full Aggro, a figure even 220s need outside buffs to reach. The 219 nuke requires 2850 nano init to speed-cap, the 220 nuke 1950. It seems from this that the 220 nuke was designed as a Fulldef nuke and the others as FullAggro nukes, but the speeds needed to reach the speed caps are far from being achievable even when a Nano Init heavy set-up is used (which results in gimped ACs and loss of other boosts).
   At 2100 nano init (self-buffed Nano Init @ 220): http://www.ramorak.com/sl/nukes.asp?name=220+NT&lvl=220&mc=2050& ni=2100&deck=8&ac=35000&end=1.18&a ggdef=100&sec=30
   At 2850 Nano init (Nano Init required to speed-cap all nukes): http://www.ramorak.com/sl/nukes.asp?name=220+NT&lvl=220&mc=2050& ni=2850&deck=8&ac=35000&end=1.18&a ggdef=100&sec=30
   At 2850 nano init the nukes scale nicely in performance.
   Suggestion: Large nano init boost on Cyberdeck (+1000 for Izzy's), or reduce cast times on the spec 4 'deck nukes by approx. 2s. This would allow us to hit the intended 2/1 cast time.
3. Wish: New SL Calms/Roots/Blinds/Layers (extended support tools).
   A core part of the NT toolset was lost with SL and this has impacted heavily on team value and solo ability. Ideally these would be available via Perks or as added nuke procs so they do not interrupt the casting of nukes (see item 4). One option with Layers might be to use a hostile NCU buff so the recharge can be very short without allowing chain-use. Preferably these should be usable by both 'deck users and weapon users.
4. Concern: Damage vs. casting Support nanos (and loss of nano procs).
   Any time an NT casts a support nano (i.e. anything other than a Nuke) their damage drops dramatically, this is one reason NTs have such a hard time soloing, we can either layer/blind or we can nuke. With the cyberdeck we are the only profession that cannot deal damage while casting their nanos and whereas RK nukes had added procs (e.g. detaunts, stuns, debuffs) cyberdeck nukes do not making this even more of an issue at a time when we have a much reduced toolset. Please add more DD perk specials (to the Enhance Nano Damage line?), provide support abilities via Perk specials and add procs on to the cyberdeck nukes.
   
5. Auto Nuke feature
   Lag, Casting animation and timing all contribute to NTs failing to realise their damage potential. Please proivde an 'upload' feature for the cyberdeck, or a 're-cast last nuke' to allow for auto-nuking. Casting another nano interrupts this activity.
6. Concern: Minimum damage using Nukes.
   Most professions have new weapons with high minimum damage to make up for the high ACs in SL, while NT nukes are designed for both RK AND SL. Additionally, in the majority of situations NTs are unable to exploit AC weaknesses in SL due to a narrow selection of damage types on the nukes (e.g. no spec 4 chem nuke until 215, no spec 4 Fire nuke until 216, no spec 4 Projectile nuke). Because of this the vast majority of NT nukes still hit for minimum damage and this is one reason 'deck nukes perform poorly. One option might be to increase the availability of damage types/change existing damage types, another to reduce the effectiveness of ACs on nukes.
7. Wish: Extermination Symbiants.
   Please add: Ocular: Nano Init, Intelligence (both are essential NT skills/abilities). Chest+Waist+Leg: Stamina (MC Trickle down). Leg: Stamina, +HealDelta. Feet: +Healdelta. Ear: +XP%
8. Concern: MC reqs.
   Currently it is extremely difficult for any non-nanomage NTs to self-cast the top 'deck nukes. At 220 the ideal would be for Nanomage to be able to drop Nano Doctorate for increased flexibility, Opi/Soli needing Nano Doctorate, Atrox needing to twink heavily. One option would be to improve the +MC boost on Izgimmer's Hippocampal Augmentor.
9. Concern: Casting Animation.
   The casting animation prevents us casting at 2/1 unless we step to cancel the animation. Please either fix the casting animation or increase the recharge to 1.5s (with a corresponding drop of 0.5s in the cast time and speed/cap)
   
10. Wish: Range Debuff.NTs have a line of nano range increasers as Range used to be a core advantage of the NT toolset, unfortunately for game engine reasons range was capped at 40m. One way to restore this part of the toolset would be to add a Range debuff line, dropping MOB/Players range below the 40m cap.
    
11. Concern: Introduction of new nukes. After any expansion it is extremely rare for new Nukes to be introduced (or adjustments to existing ones), but we often see a proliferation of new weapons which end up rendering the Nukes pretty ineffective as a result of 'Mudflation'.
    
12. Concern/Wish: Nullity Sphere does not prevent reflect damage.
    We understand this is to prevent feedback loops but with the increased amount of reflect shields in use this has become a serious issue. Please change it so that Nullity prevents reflect damage.
13. Wish: Evil Demon Wings (bat-like). Clan+Solitus+NT only (Wings of Satenia)
14. Wish: Holy Angel Wings (all feathery and stuff). OMNI+Solitus+NT only (Wings of Delerium)

Comments? I would like to get the range debuff idea in there but not sure which to drop.

[Silverrobe]

Great Job!

[Satenia]

Cz should change the topic from "NT Concerns/Wish List - June 2004" into "NT pebble 2004".

[Paulinchen]

A very good Post!

Hopefully some of this issues will be in one of the next patches (besides the pebble )

Regards
Paulichen

[deatheyes]

I'd take a new blind nano over a sl calm or a new root.

We have the best root in the game all ready, burden of atlas. It works really well when you get your skillz up, and 100% reliable with a NR debuff on. Between that and the availability of the perk root I don't see a reason for it.

I calm inferno hecklers on the first try a lot of the time, and 4/5 with a nr debuff.

Also, I think they would be less likely to even think about a range debuff if we had roots as reliable as the trader's new sl calm

Nukes with procs would be fun for AI.

The top 2 are good top 2's, but since everyone has to deal with min dmg most of the time I don't see that changing much. The init thang would be a good first thing to try to see if it lowers the noise level a bit

-DE

[silars]

On item #10...I would ask that reflect and damage shields be negated when Nullity Sphere is running.

[Rahmorak]

Originally posted by deatheyes
I'd take a new blind nano over a sl calm or a new root. I calm inferno hecklers on the first try a lot of the time, and 4/5 with a nr debuff.

Now try doing that at 1-200, or even Mortiigs at 208 with -100 NR debuff. (I use Stop Notum Flow (-800) from Notum Source 7 but not many do)

However, I might change the Calm/Roots bit to Extend existing toolset (e.g. SL Calm/Root and Blinds.). I did mention Blinds in 8 but it is a bit hidden.

Nukes with procs would be fun for AI.

Agreed, but I am not sure we will get new nukes for AI so I am reluctant to drop one of the others for it.

Originally posted by Silars
On item #10...I would ask that reflect and damage shields be negated when Nullity Sphere is running.

Not sure what you mean here?

[geal]

btw shouldnt this be stickied

[Rahmorak]

Originally posted by geal
btw shouldnt this be stickied

I will after a a bit of discussion but I tend to find sticky threads get less views/replies.

[Delerium]

Personally I would put a Auto-Nuke (Q type attack) function way higher then a ns/ns2 rework on the priority list.

[Rahmorak]

Originally posted by Delerium
Personally I would put a Auto-Nuke (Q type attack) function way higher then a ns/ns2 rework on the priority list.

Me too, so unless there is a convincing objection I will change it.

[Satenia]

Originally posted by Rahmorak
Me too, so unless there is a convincing objection I will change it.

Change it already or expect goth-trio spankage

[Regression]

I think it would be great if non deck nukes could be worked
into the list somewhere (added, not in place of something
else). But I would find this far less important if the deck was
changed into a sort of weapon, or if something else were
implemented for added damage via perks etc etc.

Also, I'm not sure that the problems with our symbiants should
be that high up on the list. Maybe others do, but I think our
other problems being fixed would be more important than some
additions to our symbiants. Even though these changes would
be something the devs could easily do so maybe it is good to
have it high : P

[deatheyes]

Originally posted by Rahmorak
Now try doing that at 1-200, or even Mortiigs at 208 with -100 NR debuff. (I use Stop Notum Flow (-800) from Notum Source 7 but not many do)

People choose their own perks. Inferno is the highest SL playfield that isn't a raidzone designed for the endgame. People can get away with getting into Inferno before tl6 even, but well, good luck!

I have both nr debuff perks, and I rarely use Stop Notum Flow since the other one cycles and executes faster.

Really though, as it is now, you get stronger and more able to deal with the environment as you level. 215+ makes a HUGE difference. Actually, every level after 215 I notice a marked improvement in ability (damage, soloing, roots, calms etc) and survivability. Honestly overall success rate in the zone at 200, 205, 210, and 215 are drastically different.

Now that I'm done preachin, back to the suggestions

Q-nuking would be cool, especially if it would allow other nano lines to be run at the same time. I wouldnt want to lose the ability to single nuke in non-q mode though.

-DE

[Jaesic]

I would say lose the NS issue. Its a problem, but NS isn't a core part of the NT toolset (due to its rarety, not because it isn't important / useful)... and any NS is better than no NS, which is what a vast majority of NTs have.

IF NS were to become a key element in balance issues with NT and become something every NT can get with work, then I would say the time put into fixing it would be justified.

I would also suggest compressing crowd control, layers, and blinds (non-extended toolset) requests to one issue and include the regular updates for nanoformula professions as often as for weapon using ones. So, basically, we don't get our big pebble and then not see another change to our profession for the next 2 years.

[silars]

Reflect shields != Damage shields

or,

RRFE != Coruscating Screen

Soldiers/Engies/Keepers have reflect shields. Advents/Enfs have damage shields. More often than not, its the damage shields that cause the most pain...not reflect shields.

But, like Jaesic said, it is a minor detail...with better ways to fix the original problem.

-Silars

[Seventh]

Originally posted by deatheyes
I'd take a new blind nano over a sl calm or a new root.

-DE

Agree with that.

And i would put first Dmg. vs casting Support nanos, second new layer, third MC reqv, and forth Exter symbs.

[Rahmorak]

I still feel Calm+Root is a very important tool for the 1-200 NT without NR debuffs and high nano skills. I will try and do what Jaesic suggested and merge them and blinds into one, and add the issue with new Nano's being very very rare.

[msjaxon]

Would really like starfall to not be a stackable attack. Mobs are always resisting the first one cuase it's so low of a attack which makes it useless.

Would be nice to have that alpha at least.

[Phinger]

hmmm

Its a good list.


Yes I place nano init a big deal since it across the board makes better in defence......better in damage over time at your level.

I place MC requirement important since its hard to be a better NT when your all locked into nano doc for 10 points to cast your nukes period.

THe deck/nuke damage fix. whatever it is it has to be a sizeable adjustemnet over classes athta currently match us at 220 or better us at lower levels who have better defences and/or heals. I dont think this gap is highlighted enough.


Hmm I so wish the deck could upload the nuke. and press q and away you go.....and you get back your defence capability I would place that as a very nice concern.....I would highlight how the deck and the lack of perk damage specails or weapon specails or perk defences has completly gutted the NT when it comes to doing damage or supporting himself. I think its a subtle game mechanics that has severly curtailed the NT overall.


Phinger