[MP Wishlist] Bow perks/buffs

[Lorahxi]

Ok, going to start a bow buff/perk thread so we can discuss it here and leave it out of the creation weapon threads. I went back 5 pages of these forums and didn't find a wishlist thread on bow buffs/perks so I assume it was discussed further back or at a metacon. If anyone knows where the thread is (if there is one), post the link here, please.

Taken from the MP wishlist:

Need for Bow Perks, Buffs, and Items:
At the moment we have QL 300 Bows ingame that we will never be able to equip, because of the lack of any major way of buffing bow.
-Have a new Bow Perk line, possibly used by both MA and MP.
-Have a new Bow Nano Buff, having it add to either just bow, or bow and bow special, or bow and aim shot.
-Have bow added to the Support Unit Symbiant Right Arm.

Bow Perk Line:
Bow perks would be awesome, maybe have ones that copy the pistol mastery perk line, except instead of fling, add aimed shot. Aimed shot in that particular perk line would be great because some bows have aimed shot as the special, which people sometimes use for pvp. I haven't really thought too much in depth about perk specials, I will add more ideas on that later.
Bow Nanos:
I have read that people think that MAs should get the higher bow buffs, can someone clue me in as to why? If anything I think MAs & MPs should get nanos that buff the same or even MPs should get the higher ones. My reasoning for this is that MAs are good with their fists and only use bow occasionally (pvp), and some don't even use them at all. I think about 70% of MPs I see have a bow equipped as their primary weapon skill. I know MAs have profession specific bows, but I don't see them using them because their fists create better damage output. Two professions can't share the same nano line, so my suggestion for this is to create two self-only nano lines (one for MA, and one for MP) that buff the same amount and scale up to the equivalent of the engi pistol buff extreme prejudice, maybe more. I agree with the wishlist post about it having a secondary buff added to the nanos like bow special or aimed shot, but mostly aimed shot because of the reasons I listed above in the perk section.
The wishlist looks awesome, but I think it needs a little more expanding on the ideas so the devs know what exactly we want. Anyone else have any ideas/suggestions to add?

[Chanell]

I have read that people think that MAs should get the higher bow buffs, can someone clue me in as to why?

Mostly because bow is an MA weapon.
It's their ranged skill and probably would be an alternative to fists if there was buffs.
(In the earlier days, there were a lot of bow MAs.)
It even uses physic init, which is the init MAs exceed at.

And since it's green for them and even the manual mentions their bow mastery, of course they should get higher bow buffs.

[Lorahxi]

Thanks for clearing that up. I realized after I had posted why people would think that. I still don't agree, but that's probably because I am a bow user myself. I would love to see bow buffs given to both professions that scale up equally though.

[Chanell]

Originally posted by Lorahxi
I would love to see bow buffs given to both professions that scale up equally though.

It is undeniable that the bow MAs died out and that the only people you see with bows now are MPs and a hand full of docs.
I would like equal buff/perk lines myself, my explanation above was more saying why i don't expect them and why i think others don't either.

[Trilic]

That wishlist entered before we had the Mystical Green Hood, and before people had Faithful/Chosen. But there are still some weapons that would be very difficult to wear. And considering the reqs on the hood, and faithful. Lots of the 200 and under MPs still dont have too much things to help them out into higher lvl bows.

Yup, Bows use to be the MA's thing. But as everything changes, so has this. It is now definately the MP choice weapon next to 1hb. But more and more people are edging towards the bow, because it has great range, cheaper on IP (for those bows that just require bow skill), and doesnt involve the risk of the melee 1hb MP.

I dont know about the perk line. Although having something in group perks, like the pistol mastery would be nice. Probably something in the lines that Doc, MP, MA, could share.

But at the same time, I would also like to see this in a Nano. Something self only would be much nicer, But maybe the first nano could be castable on others, kind of like how the Fixer SMG/Burst buff line is.

[Sallust]

MPs should be able to use their best bows, but there are a couple problems we need to get around before MPs & MAs will be allowed better bow abilities.

For MAs it is the ability to hot swap bows and get way too many very powerful alpha attacks. Archer Martial Artists fine, but flickering weapons on and off just for special attacks is something that needs to be avoided. Weapon using martial artists should be dedicating themselves to using the weapon as an equally valuable skill to the just fists route. It should be a tradeoff. Too much bow skill at no opportunity cost can easily overpower martial artists in the alpha damage bracket.

For MPs it is that we're not a real weapon profession, we have weapons basically to fill up our hand. Our damage is supposed to come from our pets primarily, nukes secondarily, and weapons as an extra backup. We're also way above our place in comparative damage rankings with other professions.

So the first and obvious choice to get on those bows is perks. Perks are a tradeoff and have an opportunity cost. Training a bow perk line will cost you something else important, whether martial arts or channel rage. This allows us to put on better bows at a cost. I'd like to see a perk line shared between MPs, MAs, Agents (crossbows), and Adventurers

Martial artists need better bow abilities through new bow designs. They need excellent bows which can't be hot swapped effectively due to reqs and equipping times. Hopefully they'd have some nice +attack rating mods so that the MAs using them wouldn't need extra bow skill to get the attack rating.

Bow buffs aren't all bad, but because of the problems earlier it is difficult to give them to MPs or MAs. I think False professionable Adventurer buffs castable on others could be good. It could make the Adventurer proficient in more weapon choice again (Advents used to be more than just swords and pistols as well) and agents just as well with crossbows. Alternatively the line would also be good on agents for us with crossbows. Whoever gets it, a lot of professions need it to be castable on others for sure.

P.S. - I love my sprite bow.

{Edited by Trilic: Moved this post from here.}

[Infil]

"Mochams gift: bow"

[Lorahxi]

edited since sallust fixed his post

[Lorahxi]

I just got home, I will comment on this stuff a little bit later. Not really feeling the creative groove atm.

[Wizz]

Well yes he obviously did but we like him all the same

Perk style:

10 perk line, accessible to MAs, MPs and Docs, maybe to agents and advies too as was mentionned elsewhere.

Like the pistol mastery line, have access of MPs, docs and advies be limited.

Rule of thumb: MAs have access to the whole line, MPs and agents up to level 7, docs to level 5 and advies to level 3.

Perk level 1:
Bow +10
Bow Spec Attack +5
Crossbow +10
Aimed Shot +1
+2 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 10

Perk level 2:
Bow +10
Bow Spec Attack +5
Crossbow +10
Aimed Shot +1
+3 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 30, must have perk 1 trained.

Enables perk special "Focus on Target": +1 crit increase, 100% AS attack raiting, defense 100% dodge ranged, lasts 45 seconds, available every 30 mins or so.

Perk level 3:
Bow +12
Bow Spec Attack +6
Crossbow +12
Aimed Shot +2
+3 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 60, must have 2 trained.

Perk level 4:
Bow +13
Bow Spec Attack +6
Crossbow +13
Aimed Shot +2
+4 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 90, must have 3 trained.

Perk level 5:
Bow +14
Bow Spec Attack +7
Crossbow +14
Aimed Shot +2
+4 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 120, must have 4 trained.

Enable perk special:
-must have Focus running

Ignore AC DD, each new perk in line adds damage
OR
Bloodletting attack, new perks increase DoT
OR
More crit increase, more perks slightly increase the chance to land by adding to AR only for the special
OR
Kind of a burst effect: x shots shot at target and check dodge ranged, with a set min damage and number of arrows hitting. Each addition to line adds one more shot to the multiple arrows attack.

Perk level 6:
Bow +16
Bow Spec Attack +8
Crossbow +16
Aimed Shot +2
+5 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 150, must have 5 trained.

Perk level 7:
Bow +16
Bow Spec Attack +8
Crossbow +16
Aimed Shot +2
+5 all damage types bows/crossbows can do
Level: 180, must have 6 trained.

From there up, MA only:

Perk level 8:
Bow +22
Bow Spec Attack +11
Aimed Shot +3
+7 all damage types bows can do
Level: 201, must have 7 trained.

Perk level 9:
Bow +30
Bow Spec Attack +15
Aimed Shot +3
+9 all damage types bows can do
Level: 203, must have 8 trained.

Enable special:
Big DD special (with AoE?), must have both previous specials still running on target.
Reloads 3 times faster than second perk
AR 100% bow spec attack based
Defense?

Perk level 10:
Bow +55
Bow Spec Attack +20
Aimed Shot +4
+18 all damage types bows can do
Level: 205, must have 9 trained.

Maybe add crit increase to last 3 perks as they are MA only?
That's not in MP dynamics to be crit reliant, but MPs and MAs don't have to use bows the same way, do we?

I should be able to try and design some nano line more or less equal to that in a while.

Rework whut?

[Xtremtech]

I'd personally agree to MA Perk line with partial access to MPs/Advies/Agents and Docs. Similar to Blunt Mastery and Pistol Mastery though, the larger perk specials should not be accessed by the partial perk line users.

I'd have to argue against Aimed Shot buff in it, because AS can already be buffed by a huge amount with various items. AS buffs really aren't needed and would only tend to skew damage balance by virtue of altering AS damage and recycle speed.

I'd argue for adding Bow Special buff to the perk line though. Right now the special arrows are kinda cruddy, but in future they may well get sorted and if they do, they'd be a nice addition I think.

Note to Wizz: Crossbow isn't a skill in itself. If you wanted to increase crossbow then the skill to buff alongside Bow would be Rifle. I don't think that MPs should have access to a Rifle buff.

With regard to Nano Buffs - only the MA should have them if anybody has them. There are still MAs who will quick-equip and un-equip bows during combat for Aimed Shot and for when they get rooted/snared and are unable to get free to get close enough to hit their target with their fists.

MPs should not get bow buffing nanos in my opinion - it just doesn't fit the profession template at all.

Just my two penn'orth as ever.

X

[webe]

Perk level 10:
Bow +55
Bow Spec Attack +20

Ok, nice work. But! If MP´s cant use more then 7 perk in this line . we end up with 93 more bow skill, if you were to decide. And what the he** should Mp´s do with 93 more BOW skill. When we lack about 200 or so.

I know its only a idea. But get real. ql 300 Mp Bow= 1701 Bow skill.

edit 16 to 93.

[Xtremtech]

I think Wizz means that the buffs stack which would mean perk level 6 would add up to +75 Bow. Perk 7 would add up to +93.

X

[webe]

yup. my bad. but 93 is still way to low.

Should be that Mp´s could get +55 also since we have 1701 as a goal. Or 2251 for the lord.

[Wizz]

Well yes each level buff stacks with the previous one. Fortunately.

I know there's no pure crossbows but there's no need for rifle in there for one thing, agents are more than covered in that matter for a second.

I don't think MAs would much want a dual skill weapon, I don't think MPs should have access to one.

If you add up +120 from unexpected attack to rifle and +93 from the line to bow, agents end up with a not too bad AR even for a dual skill weapon. Should allow the odd agents to go for something less usual than X3 for instance.

The huge damage perk in the line I'm proposing is MA only.

AS is with Fling Shot the most common special for bows.
It is the only special we can get on Sacrosanct/Inamorata bows. Can be dropped no problem though.

Special arrows using Bow spec attack need a revamp about as much as our Creation Weapons do, maybe even more.

I guess that Funcom will modify our top Sprite Bow and Bow of Sympathy when they can so that it does become equippable (with top gear and buffs, maybe with top perk if they make a line).
Because the bows themselves were badly designed isn't a sufficient reason why to create a completely unbalanced line of perks.
Whatever we do FC probably will not allow MPs to have an attack rating with weapons comparable to the one of their nukes.

However it is designed, a bow buff or line of perks probably will end up giving something between +90 to +125 buff to the skill as to not upset balance too much.

I'm rather in favor of a line of nanos anyway.
Even if the top perk or nano buffed for +125 QL 300 bows would need to have their req modified.

Finally if it's made a perk line it means there will be specials, just as in the 1HB or Pistol lines.
I think everyone should have access to them. As access to the godly one would be restricted to MAs it could not be a problem.
One more special could be moved from accessible to everyone to MA restricted though but I really think it could work this way.

[Wizz]

Well if with +93 it makes us 16 short off the best bow, some item or other could correct it.

Just seen that and didn't want to edit.

[Trilic]

Perk area is looking good, and we dont nesasarily need all the points in bow for perks. But what about a new buff line for bow?

In reality, I only see one or the other happening...If there was a
bow buff, and bow perk line, it would be alittle over kill I think.

But, maybe just a Bow Mastery buff that buffs +60 or so with the bow perk line. That would make up for the missing points in bow needed to equip the best bow ingame.

[sleepytime]

anyone got a good low lvl bow for sell im lvl 34..........

[Trilic]

Sleepytime, this is not the place for it, please refer to the Market forums, and keep ontopic.

[Trilic]

OK, so far we have this:

• Have a bow perk line, similar to Pistol Mastery, that would be shared by MAs, MPs, and Docs.
• Have Bow Special attack, and/or Aimed Shot as a secondary attack for the perk line.
• Bow buffs should really go to the MAs, but those buffs should be castable on others. (like MA Mastery buff, that adds +60 to MA, but one for Bow)

Not much listed here, anything anyone wants added?