Upcomming nerf?

**Nugget** · May 29th, 2004, 08:33:19

Originally posted by Raekwon
surprised no one has brought up the Action Not Available issue when using skill lock.

Cz mentione dit being totaly borked (but working fine for stims and such) in the thread linked in the opening post of this thread.

**Compounded** · May 29th, 2004, 08:58:19

exactly so people saying they got 8s FAs and 5s bursts are wrong being of the delay caused by Action Not Available

**Tantxa** · May 29th, 2004, 11:26:02

you could just make Skill lock mod effect the specials timer after your burst/fling w/e skill has been applied to it, instead of before then it wouldn't reduce the lock by so much but would still be a handy skill to have.

way it is now, if a weapon has 100sec timer on burst with no burst skill at all, then -1 skill lock, which is 1% would bring it down by one second

way I'm suggesting, if the same weapon has a 15 second recharge with 1k burst skill, and then -1% skill lock would be - 0.15 seconds which isn't so much, but it's still cool.

Would stop doctors getting 6 second bursts2 and 4 second flings but let classes with high burst skill squeeze a few seconds more by piling on the -skill lock.

**sirphoenix** · May 29th, 2004, 12:12:23

Originally posted by Cz
As an example, Soldiers should do fast Full Auto attacks, while Doctors should not. At least that's my take on it.

agree, but then why the heck you put high % skill-lock in support-leg-symbiants and not in artillery? and why there is no burst-skill in r-arm artillery symbiants? that doesn't sound logical to me

**Ullgencer** · May 29th, 2004, 12:20:15

because it wasnt ment to affect specials. it helps the docs(in this case) use stims more often. which i think if understandable.

imo; if the skill lock is removed from specials theyll have to rework our taunts.. losing damage means to be having a very hard time holding agg off certain proffs.

**Inari** · May 29th, 2004, 12:42:03

At the high end with the top taunts holding aggro is not a real problem except vs shades and chainmongoing enforcers.

And at the moment only a MA or shade can OD a soldier.

I have been running DD for lots of teams lately and a high ql spastic is is so far above anything except 215+ MAs and shades that I dont really see a problem.

When the shades have to limit their perkuse due to stacking a soldier will OD them as well. Which leaves MAs as the single profession ODing us.

If I calculate in a 30% damagedrop it will still be those 2 professions + maybe engies and MPs that can get higher than us. Only shades and MAs with pure damage and we should be able to hold that with taunts. The only problem with this is that we wont be able to control adds with taunts if we have to focus on keeping aggro from the primary target with that.

And BTW the Aoparser stats I base what I say on is only from inferno hecklers and mortiigs.

In adonis we do relativly lower damage due to the low ACs making others perfom better.
And Raid situations.. well I dont care much for them since the only times damage matter in raid situations is if you are there to OD.. and besides the gun for raiding is MBC.

**Darkbeak** · May 29th, 2004, 12:52:37

one thing i want to add:

although im not really eager to see that nerf coming, the fact that CZ is posting here and actually giving reasons for doing it and explaining what they have in mind...makes me very happy. As long as FC gives me a sound reason and explanation for a change, even if i dont agree, ill welcome the change.

**sirphoenix** · May 29th, 2004, 13:01:55

Originally posted by Ullgenser
because it wasnt ment to affect specials. it helps the docs(in this case) use stims more often. which i think if understandable.

imo; if the skill lock is removed from specials theyll have to rework our taunts.. losing damage means to be having a very hard time holding agg off certain proffs.

skill-lock-clusters and imps where ingame before any symbiants and i had -10% skill-lock pre-SL. so they either didn't know it at that point or the symbiant-designers had no idea what they are doing

**Escritores** · May 29th, 2004, 13:07:09

Originally posted by Vhalor
While I can understand everyone not wanting to loose damage output, please understand that the current setup of skill lock was not what was intended by the devs and is causing an unintended problem to game ballance. This is causing an imballance in the game that the devs either have to; A)correct the unintended effects or B) boost the damage of every other proffesion in game. I'm sure you can see why this is an easier solution and what will allow the devs more time working on actual content and bug fixes and less time on ballance issues.

I don't like loosing damage anymore then the next guy but this needs to be done. I would rather take a hit to damage and have more content then keep my damage and have the damage of 13 other proffesions boosted to ballance things. Let's keep our eye on the ball here, we'll still be uber even with a damage nerf. If it allows the devs more time working on in game content and less time on ballancing I'm all for it. Let's face it we need some content besides killing hecklers for days on end and camping dyna's with a 2% drop rate, that is where I would rather they were spending they're time =)

The only profs that are really doing "too little" damage now and would need that boost would be NTs and Agents... Far from all 13 other profs...

**___________SureSpeed** · May 29th, 2004, 13:21:20

Well this totally screwed me... with me being a neutral soldier i cant even use the spas coop guns so i was kinda relying on the skill lock items and symbs to push the FA on the perennium down.. well now i dont really know what to do.. talk about big nerf for the neuts......

**Gruntpanda** · May 29th, 2004, 13:34:23

Originally posted by Hendrix
Well this totally screwed me... with me being a neutral soldier i cant even use the spas coop guns so i was kinda relying on the skill lock items and symbs to push the FA on the perennium down.. well now i dont really know what to do.. talk about big nerf for the neuts......

Get yourself a MBC.

**Intah!** · May 29th, 2004, 13:42:01

To balance this for soldiers i think we should make FA just as good as AS .... :P

**Octopuss** · May 29th, 2004, 14:32:24

Originally posted by Gruntpanda

Get yourself a MBC.

Yay, what a smart suggestion. Can you lend me 2 billions pls?

**Pokemaster** · May 29th, 2004, 15:00:02

Originally posted by Intah!
To balance this for soldiers i think we should make FA just as good as AS .... :P

That could be the biggest possible joke ever...make FA as good as AS, ok you can try and hide mid mob to get your special off. Not only is FA od'ing an AS it is *infinitely* easier to use.

**Escritores** · May 29th, 2004, 15:46:38

Originally posted by Zen

That could be the biggest possible joke ever...make FA as good as AS, ok you can try and hide mid mob to get your special off. Not only is FA od'ing an AS it is *infinitely* easier to use.

That reply was not even close to making sense...

**Joannah** · May 29th, 2004, 16:16:40

"That reply was not even close to making sense..."

It makes sense when you consider that's description of how AS works in PvM -- the mob has to be 'unaware' of your presence for the special to work, and the part about FA outdamaging AS comes from being limited --per design-- to single AS per mob... as opposed to FA every few secs.

In other words, 'making the FA as good as AS' would mean 'nerfing it to hell and beyond', if it was modeled afer PvM AS ;s

**Londino** · May 29th, 2004, 16:17:33

That could be the biggest possible joke ever...make FA as good as AS, ok you can try and hide mid mob to get your special off. Not only is FA od'ing an AS it is *infinitely* easier to use.

He meant we dont have to sneak mid battle to get off an AS. And FYI escorites, full auto caps at 15k, AS caps at 13k, so technically, FA is better

But yes, I know what you mean. It's still a very naieve statement though, considering agents are meant to be near the top damage dealers anyway, and are soooo much squishier than us.

**Pokemaster** · May 29th, 2004, 16:53:08

alas i wrote my reply after scanning a few threads and had only been awake for about 15minutes, so gimme a break

The point i was trying to make as Joannah and Londino said was that for you to ask to make FA as "good" as AS would be a joke, in pvm. Not only does it deal less damage it also is technically more difficult to use. If you only want to AS a mob in pvm - that leads to dealing no regular damage, where as FA is a special that works all the time (not when your presence has not be recognised by your targeted mob) so you can have your regular attacks too.

Basically I just wanted to laugh at your suggestion and if the idea to make FA as good as AS ever enters your head again, just go check out the agent forums and it will be one of the many whines they have atm. Soldiers don't have it so bad at all, the nerf isn't a personal attack from the devs on soldiers it is in order to try and balance the DD tables out a bit...i.e. so non-weapon profs don't OD dedicated DD profs. At the end of the day you will find that it should *try* to even out the DD tables to make them read more like they were intended (but this will not be realised with this patch)

**Escritores** · May 29th, 2004, 17:21:22

Well like i wrote elsewhere as i see it only Agents and NT's complain about skill lock... Traders are much dependent on it too afaik... Whatever devs ideas is by removing this it will hurt ALOT of ppl that's what i don't get how about just raising Agents and NT's damage a bit and keep all ppl happy it's not a very hard solution...
And no offcourse FA shouldn't be as good or the same or whatever as AS the 2 specials imo can't be compared... (I know tha caps londino, but u still can't say FA is better when the 2 specials don't depend on the same things to be succesfull)

**___________SureSpeed** · May 29th, 2004, 18:25:38

Originally posted by Gruntpanda

Get yourself a MBC.

hehe sure just give me a few billion and ill go buy one... funcom really needs to think about the neutral soldiers out there.. i want a neutral only gun like the spas and coops

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