Dust Brigade Attacks Omni-Med

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by joshuacrime
In any event, since most of us in the Clans don't even like what the Sentinels stand for

It's all well and good for you, or others before you, to tell us that 'most Clanners do not like the Sentinels', the fact of the matter is the only evidence we have the, only fact and figures available to measure this are CoT votes. And those votes show that the Sentinel Clan actually enjoy quite widespread support among the other Clans.

Moreover for every Clanner I hear telling me that regular Clanners don't approve of the Sentinels, I can see one, like Diamoness or Escritores, who share the same scorn of Neutrals as Silverstone.

Its not as if I don't understand how democracy works. A lot of different people different opinions get together and those who represent the majority view get to set the agenda. But if waht you claim were true, the Clans would have used the democratic process to show their disdain for the morally repugnant Sentinels. As it were the Sentinels represent the single most influential Clan at present, and this is thanks to the democratic vote of Clanners.

Savoy

[Marisha]

Originally posted by joshuacrime
I find it sad or maybe simply pathetic that Omni employees cannot see about how a democratic order works…

Well, perhaps you can explain some aspects of Democracy to me, then.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
In any event, since most of us in the Clans don't even like what the Sentinels stand for, since they are kind of bloodthirsty in my opinion…

How is it then that the Sentinel clan holds the largest single block of support? This isn’t an indication of the will of the clans? If the clans are so democratic, how is it that the Sentinel clan won the speakership without majority support? Or is the tyranny of the minority an acceptable price to pay for security?

Originally posted by joshuacrime
How does the slaughter of Omni, Clan and Neutral alike fit into the Clan strategy?

So, if the Dust Brigade stopped shooting clanners, they would be libertarian defenders of freedom, just like the Sentinels, correct?

Originally posted by joshuacrime
Keeping a lack of stability serves no one, and most Clanners do not approve of the continual warfare that decimates our population, drains this planet's resources, keeps warmongering profiteers in business and continues to drain our attention from the most important thing that has happened on our beloved Rubi-Ka. The ship that has crash landed in Mort.

While I disagree that this is the most important thing that has happened on Rubi-Ka, if your statement is true about the clans not desiring continual warfare, why is it that in the Atlantean CoT chamber the militants hold a majority? Or, does the Council of Truth not truly represent the clans?

Originally posted by joshuacrime
The Dust Brigades are a blot upon my homeland, and the day we root them out utterly and destroy them to the last will be nearly as glorious as the day that Omni-Tek, Clan and Neutral can live in peace and harmony.

Indeed. I’m looking forward to that day as well. However, given the attitudes of certain majority parties inside the CoT regarding the actions of the Dust Brigade and the rapidity in which the Clans have endeavored to ensure that Neutrals can walk the streets of Tir openly, and the indifference of some when they are not being attacked, I’m not foreseeing any quick action from the clans on this matter.

[Vixentrox]

While I am no supporter of the Sentinels, you must ask yourselves, what would drive folks to support him even though their own Clan's declarations of friendships with neutral peoples would indicate the opposite. Perhaps they are letting their fear cloud judgement and back someone they feel can better protect them from that which they fear? Desperate people do desperate things they wouldn't normally do. It's the only reason why I can see some who claim to be neutrals supporters backing Sents.

Maybe if these Clans felt they had nothing to fear from Omni-Tek, you would see support for the Sentinels fade. Something to consider I suppose.

Of course, there are always those people that are nationalistic to the extreme and anyone not with them must be against them. While I do not agree with this point of view, it at least is more honest than saying you support neutrals on one hand, and cheer their death becuase they travel in one of your cities. Or even worse, somehow consider them all feinds worse than Omni-tek; a greater threat to the Clan way of life.

[Astera]

Just wont let it go, will you?

[joshuacrime]

Since I have decided not to stoop to the snide, arrogant, holier-than-thou Omni-Tek propaganda drivel coming from some of the people that replied to my statement, which I thought was quite cordial, I will make blanket statements regarding each point and use the examples to continue my arguement.

A representative democracy, whether in republican, parlimentary or other formats, can at times have multiple parties that can have multiple interests, not all coinciding with one another. You see, you Omni drones are so used to the "One Man, One Vote" system that you have NO idea how our system functions properly, and it does. You can have different "majorities" or "minorities" depending on the system of government and depending on the number of participants and the parties that they belong to. A simple majority, for example, is what we currently have. A majority of the votes with respect to the number of people casting it, but hardly a true majority. If there were 10 political parties and the votes were cast for all of them evenly but 1, someone has a majority, although it is a very simple one by parlimentary procedure. I'm sorry if you do not understand that. When 3 out of 10 vote one way, it's not the "majority of the Clanners" but it is a majority of our council rules. I'm terribly sorry if you all can't do the simple math to figure it out, or if your totalitarian brains haven't the capacity to move on beyond the One Man system. In our case, coalitions will be formed in order to move our motions through the council. Our blocks will be voting blocks and we will all have our way sooner than later, it just takes time. Hell of a difference from your system, which says "Do it right now, when I say and how I say, or I'll blow your head off". I like mine better.

Now that we have gotten our recap of Government 101 out of the way, we can go onto how the "tyranny of the minority" can actually hold power. THEY DON'T! People that think that can't read and can't think, because apparently they are used to being told what to do all the time. The Sentinels do NOT hold power for the Clans. It is true that many people support them (I do not, but I'm one person and not someone in authority). And people that do have a very good reason. Silverstone led the Clans against Omni and routed them. And kicked them out. Good for them.

I don't think we need the same factional attitudes that we had before, but they still seem to have it in some sectors. And that's unfortunate, but the minority only holds the chair of the party, which by the way, Silverstone isn't even going to sit in. He doesn't believe in the CoT and doesn't care about what the CoT does. However, he is still needed, because he represents strength and power, which is all you Omni drek seem to appreciate and respect.

You don't even know how the council is going to be formed, how the various sub-committees are going to be formed, in what capacity, what the rules are for how the representatives are placed in, how they can call for new elections should they be needed, etc etc etc. When people start talking about how the Clans are being "terrorized" by the minority that is the Sentinels, well, we aren't being terrorized at all. You are. Too bad, so sad. Tell you what, the day I can walk into Omni Entertainment without getting shot by 100 guards will be the day that you can walk into Tir or Old Athen without the same.

And for the love of God, stop using the Neutrals as your whipping post. They don't give a damn about Clan or Omni. They want no part of our little games, which is why they are NEUTRAL. Once you get that into your thick addlepated skulls, the better, and then you can stop using this tired old excuse about how we treat the Neutrals SO BAD.

Furthermore, I keep hearing about how bad Omni-Tek is, and how if you felt like it, you could wipe out Clan in a day. Well...all I can say is...poppycock. If that were true, you'd have damn well done it already. But you can't, because it's not "cost effective" and would "decimate" the "native labor pool" to use your heartless and selfish terms. It's a bitch, isn't it? Well guess what? You can't elect a new people if they don't like how you govern. It's the same reason you haven't rooted out the Dust Brigade, the Cyborgs and the other nuisances of this planet. Because YOU CAN'T. So stop beating your dead horses, because those old dogs don't hunt anymore (I love mixed metaphors).

[Marisha]

Originally posted by joshuacrime
When 3 out of 10 vote one way, it's not the "majority of the Clanners" but it is a majority of our council rules.

But under you simple majority model, it is possible that these three votes could make a decision. Hence the tyranny of the minority.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
Silverstone led the Clans against Omni and routed them. And kicked them out. Good for them.

If your making reference to the liberation of Tir, he was fighting the ICC, not Omni-Tek (the distinction may be lost on you). Also, he led his clan, not clans plural. It was a unilateral action on his part.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
You don't even know how the council is going to be formed, how the various sub-committees are going to be formed, in what capacity, what the rules are for how the representatives are placed in, how they can call for new elections should they be needed, etc etc etc.

I don’t believe most Clanners do either, but that’s just my on personal opinion.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
Furthermore, I keep hearing about how bad Omni-Tek is, and how if you felt like it, you could wipe out Clan in a day. Well...all I can say is...poppycock. If that were true, you'd have damn well done it already. But you can't, because it's not "cost effective" and would "decimate" the "native labor pool" to use your heartless and selfish terms.

Actually, it would be in violation of ICC regulations, and that’s why it hasn’t happened.

[joshuacrime]

Rational discourse is what I like.

As for your points, I will just comment briefly. Well as briefly as I know how.

3 of 10 votes is not a majority insofar as a voting block is concerned. It was to elect the chair of the CoT and since we don't have 2 parties here, we have a situation that could produce a less than majority "majority". This stuff used to give me a headache in uni, but it's not that difficult to understand. The way parlimentary procedures generally work is that, in order for a measure to be carried, it would have to have more than the simple majority ( > 50%), depending on if it a case of internal procedure or not. In the case of rules that effect all of us, most likely a 2/3rds majority would have to be reached, so in that instance more than just the Sentinels block would have to vote for it. Seems to me, though, that they didn't move into Tir because they wanted to conquer it and claim leadership of the Clans.

No, they moved into Tir because the CoT had fallen and a power vacuum was created and they made sure that the Neutrals stayed out while we were reforming our governing council. Most of the Neutrals tend to congretate in Newland and Borealis, and I see more Omni there than I do Neutrals, and you two factions commiserate more than we do with the Neutrals. I'm sorry and I wish things had been handled different with them, but it wasn't my choice and I think that everyone but Simple Simon feels the same. Well, maybe not everyone, but a lot of us do.

As for the other items mentioned, the ICC gave Omni-Tek the lease for this planet, making them as complicit as you in what was going on. While the abuses were taking place, the ICC did nothing and stood by and watched. Why? Because your profits were still rolling in and ICC was getting their cut, that's why. It wasn't for altruistic reasons. It was purely monetary reasons. So, in that case, ICC and Omni-Tek are interchangable for that point. Simon's routing of the ICC troops was because they were trying to impose upon us the corporate mindset into our newly found freedom, and we would not tolerate it. I'd STILL support Simon's decisions there.

You are correct in your assertions about how most Clanners do not know about how the Council will be formed, but I happen to know 2 of the representatives that will be going to vote on the council, and I'm familiar with a 3rd, so I think I'll probably know before hoi polloi does. In any event, it's our decision to make and not subject to Omni-Tek scrutiny.

And lastly, the example of how ICC is holding Omni back from destroying us all is so short sighted and tactical it's not even worth debating, but I'll keep it simple.

The ICC "prevents" Omni from doing it because in launching your horrible strategic weapons across the planet would destroy us, all of YOU and it along with it, and that would be completely unpalatable to ICC and your greedy corporation. The loss of having the only source of notum in the known cosmverse (forget the Shadowlands for the time being, as it's not even involved in our conflict) would be too awful for your company and the ICC (and the rest of the galaxy for that matter) to contemplate. Should you try a full scale military campaign, we know how to hurt you. Sure, you can kill and capture us, and we can do the same to you, but we know how to hurt this corporation. By attacking your wallets. Scorched earth policies are nothing new in history, and with the technology possessed by both sides, it could be quite scorched indeed. Think you want to rule a piece of dirt? Probably not.

Therefore, for reasons of the economy, you could never use the one thing that could destroy us, because then you would have never come here in the first place. QED, I win the arguement. Logic sucks, doesn't it?

No, militarily, Clan and Omni are quite even on the battlefield, despite your silly use of armor against a mostly guerrilla force like Clan is. Hunting Juggies is fun and easy. But wars are so little military and so much logistics and economy and politics, and because of this you cannot afford to do what you want to for fear of the repercussions you will have to face should the more militant of you get your way.

And speaking about Simon in the first place to use against Clan? Now that's laughable. Clan didn't even exist until Omni did what they did to those workers (and would do again if someone didn't put your greedy grisly selves in check). Clan is a REACTIONARY organization that formed in the aftermath of what YOU did to US. So you don't get to judge us in the same manner. Whatever we did in retaliation is the same as what you did to us to quell the small rebellious protests it started out as. So get off your "lawyer" aspect. The initial cause of this conflict is Omni, not Clan.

Once the people of this planet make the rules of how corporations act on it's soil, and once the corporation has a paradigm shift in how it deals with the people, then the conflict will never end. A lot of you bloodthirsty types probably get off on it, but someday I'd like to stop fighting with my own damn species and get rid of the communal threats to us all. And then I can relax. Have a bronto burger in peace. Maybe go boating off Harry's Dock.

But I'm not holding my breath. I hold a shotgun instead. Sad...

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by joshuacrime
And for the love of God, stop using the Neutrals as your whipping post. They don't give a damn about Clan or Omni. They want no part of our little games, which is why they are NEUTRAL. Once you get that into your thick addlepated skulls, the better, and then you can stop using this tired old excuse about how we treat the Neutrals SO BAD.

I am sorry but the Neutral issue is relevant in order to understand the nature of this conflict.

Here is the key point. The Clans claim this conflict is about freedom, about a a people's right of self-determination and right to live in safety. However, what we have here is a substantial portion of the Clans who then see fit to deny these very same rights to the Neutrals (while others turn a blind eye to the Neutral issue because they feel they need the Sentinels might). This is hypocracy of the highest order.

I believe that freedom, democracy and these pretty words nothing to do with t he conflict as it is today. The Clans have had their freedom for 200 years now.

What we have here is the classic case of two local super-powers on Rubi-Ka both doing their damnest to control an economically important resource, in this case notum. It is as simple as that and no different from 100s of past wars throughout mankind's history in which leaders of nation have sold the war to their people as a noble and heroic cause when in reality it was always about money and power.

Savoy

[Kithraks]

Originally posted by Savoy
Here is the key point. The Clans claim this conflict is about freedom, about a a people's right of self-determination and right to live in safety. However, what we have here is a substantial portion of the Clans who then see fit to deny these very same rights to the Neutrals (while others turn a blind eye to the Neutral issue because they feel they need the Sentinels might). This is hypocracy of the highest order.

For the record, just as the Clans love to play the 'but its not MY Clan!' card to pass off excuses like the Dust Brigade or the Sentinels winning the most votes in the CoT to send the message we love the Sentinels. Then turn around and whisper but we don't auctually support them, honest is....a poor excuse at best.

You can't possibly say all one billion Omni-Tek employees are each and every single one evil and oppressive? Employees on countless worlds, they all telepathically oppressed your Clan ancestors too?

Say what you will, but all I can say is that Omni-Tek employees on Rubi-Ka have been making noted strides to improve stability on the planet, caring for citizens out of a sense of social concience. All the Clans have publically done are make excuses for refuseing to engage in constructive rebuilding on Rubi-Ka. We all know about the official Omni-Pol's efficiency records. Give it a rest and work on a realistic solution.

[Naefen]

I keep thinking... why, no matter what the subject, must conversation be turned into a huge load of drivel and blah blah.

The simple fact of the issue at hand in my opinion is.
The news are loaded with Dusters these days. They are more active than ever. We have seen all factions cooperate in driving them back and all our comments should be.... Keep up the good work people of Rubi Ka!!!

[Daimoness]

[I]The Cup, Athens West, late afternoon. A woman in a slightly dusted but high-quality suit enters the bar, orders a coffee and sits down at her favorite table, flipping out her datapad to check the news.

With a cold expression on her face, she clicks through several pages of information, then throws the pad angrily on the desk./I]

"Not even the threat of the Dust Brigade makes people come to their minds. Always the same crap about DB, Sentinels, that we support them. It's getting old - and not any closer to the truth."

The coffee cup being empty, she orders a glass of vintage cognac.

"And then even my name is mispelled, I really hate that!"

For several minutes, she sits quietly on the couch, then she starts typing in a reply.

"Now, for all I care, Dust Brigade has attacked several targets within the last days, and they apparently do not care for any faction. So for the love of truth, stop bickering about the same silly things and start thinking about what can be done to stop Dust Brigade from doing any more harm.

And, like it or not, the Sentinels do not - I repeat: do not - support, fund, protect or otherwise help Dust Brigade, nor does any other influential clan. So stop calling the Dust Brigade a clan, cause that only proves you are completely clueless.

And even the fact that the Sentinels are one of the most influential clans - and one of the largest as well - on our side does not make us all blind followers of Simon Silverstone. And yes, I do have my problems with the neutrals. In a conflict that engulfs an entire planet, you can't simply put a white flag on your rooftop and expect the bullets to fly around your house. Sooner or later, you will have to choose sides - or be regarded as an enemy from everyone. Argue all you like, you won't change my oppinion, nor that of anyone else in my clan.

-D"

Emptying her glass in one go, she abruptly stands up and leaves the place, her guardian trailing behind.

[Vixentrox]

Originally posted by Kithrak


For the record, just as the Clans love to play the 'but its not MY Clan!' card to pass off excuses like the Dust Brigade or the Sentinels winning the most votes in the CoT to send the message we love the Sentinels. Then turn around and whisper but we don't auctually support them, honest is....a poor excuse at best.

You can't possibly say all one billion Omni-Tek employees are each and every single one evil and oppressive? Employees on countless worlds, they all telepathically oppressed your Clan ancestors too?

Say what you will, but all I can say is that Omni-Tek employees on Rubi-Ka have been making noted strides to improve stability on the planet, caring for citizens out of a sense of social concience. All the Clans have publically done are make excuses for refuseing to engage in constructive rebuilding on Rubi-Ka. We all know about the official Omni-Pol's efficiency records. Give it a rest and work on a realistic solution.

No, however, the corporate policies which govern all employee's HAVE cuased such oppression. By remaining with the company you give your tactic support for these policies.

I'm not so simple minded not to recognize that for most it's just a job and a way to put food on the table. I would also wager that many would speak out against the company if they didn't feel that their livlyhood depended on it. Unfortunatly, the regular employee doesn't have many choices in this regard. They can become Clan to show their displeasure. They can apply to a different hyper-corp, which may not be any better and likely would enforce a move to a new planet. Or they can suck it up in silence. The last option, fighting their way to the top of the food chain seems very remote to most rank and file Omni I would imagine. As you said...billions of employees....but only handful make policy for the whole company.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Daimoness
So stop calling the Dust Brigade a clan, cause that only proves you are completely clueless.

Check your facts Here. The Dust Brigade are a Clan just like Gaia or The Unionists. If the Knights can dress up like feudal Authurian lords and still be called Clan, who is to say nihilists like the Dust Brigade aren't?

There is no one ideal, philosophy, government or set of laws that define the Clans. Basically the only thing that identitfies the Clans is the historical roots in the miner revolts two centuries ago. You can't just pick and choose who you want to count as a Clanner. Heck, I've heard Clanners say the Sentinles are not Clan either. I wonder how you feel about that!

Originally posted by Daimoness
And yes, I do have my problems with the neutrals. In a conflict that engulfs an entire planet, you can't simply put a white flag on your rooftop and expect the bullets to fly around your house. Sooner or later, you will have to choose sides - or be regarded as an enemy from everyone. Argue all you like, you won't change my oppinion, nor that of anyone else in my clan.

That is simply untrue. Many nations in the past have succeded to staying neutral in much more violent and widespread conflicts than the Clan-Omni one. You really ought to brush up your history before making such sweeping and senseless claims.

Savoy

[Daimoness]

Originally posted by Savoy
Check your facts Here. The Dust Brigade are a Clan just like Gaia or The Unionists. If the Knights can dress up like feudal Authurian lords and still be called Clan, who is to say nihilists like the Dust Brigade aren't?

[OOC] Now this is clearly OOC information. Also, if you read carefully then you will notice that nowhere it is said that it is a clan, there's just "The Dust Brigade is a terrorist organisation" whilst all other paragraphs have a "clan" in the description somewhere, safe for the Unionists who however are described as "affiliated with the CoT". And which clan assassinates other clan leaders or attacks clan cities? Even during the time when the Council of Ares stood against the CoT (which was an attempt to revive the storyline) no one fired a shot at the other. It's not like you can attach a clan tag to every scum that doesn't bother to declare it's affiliation. And if people shoot at me, they are clearly not on my side. Last time I checked, Dust Brigade Troopers were shooting at me.

Now, do we want an IC thread or an OOC discussion about the storyline concept?[/OOC]

Originally posted by Savoy
That is simply untrue. Many nations in the past have succeded to staying neutral in much more violent and widespread conflicts than the Clan-Omni one. You really ought to brush up your history before making such sweeping and senseless claims.

You certainly refer to the history of Old Earth. Now, let me check the major conflicts which could be similar to this one. Which are the special qualities of the conflict here? It's one patch of land, with the neutrals in the middle.

During the Secession War, were there any neutrals? I'm sure many would have liked to, but you were either on one side or the other.

The 30-year-war? There were warring factions, and affiliations sometimes changed, but were there any neutrals?

The continuing war of the Osman Empire against the European monarchies. Yes, there were neutrals at certain times, for as long as they were safely behind the frontier.

In this conflict however, the neutrals are not only in the line of fire, many of them even declared themselves a faction by renouncing neutrality in favor of their own land control, attacking bot Omni-Tek and Clan-owned property.

Now where is the neutrality? Indeed, I respect those that stay truely neutral, but there's not many of them. Neutral has become a cover for mercenaries, criminals of all kinds and organizations such as the NLF who openly declared war against all Notum-mining organizations. Neutral? It's only a tag now, no longer a concept!

And besides, all I say - I repeat it once more - is: There will be a time when everyone needs to choose his side, else his side will be chosen for him. If you're not my friend, then you are my enemy. And that's one of the oldest teachings from history.

-D

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Daimoness

[OOC] Now this is clearly OOC information. Also, if you read carefully then you will notice that nowhere it is said that it is a clan, there's just "The Dust Brigade is a terrorist organisation" whilst all other paragraphs have a "clan" in the description somewhere, safe for the Unionists who however are described as "affiliated with the CoT". And which clan assassinates other clan leaders or attacks clan cities? Even during the time when the Council of Ares stood against the CoT (which was an attempt to revive the storyline) no one fired a shot at the other. It's not like you can attach a clan tag to every scum that doesn't bother to declare it's affiliation. And if people shoot at me, they are clearly not on my side. Last time I checked, Dust Brigade Troopers were shooting at me.

Now, do we want an IC thread or an OOC discussion about the storyline concept?[/OOC]

/ooc
I think this was perfectly legitimate use of an OOC source.

It may be an OOC article, but all it does is unite in one place information that is assumed to be public knowledge. The Dust Brigade has been one of the major story Clans for as there have been major story clans. Their aims may be different from other Clans, but then that is perfectly consistent what the Clans are, a vastly different collection of people linked by a shared history more than a unified ideal, philosophy or laws. I mean the Eco Warriors advocate that no one, neither Omni or Clan should be allowed to live on Rubi-Ka, they are still a Clan, are they not?

There is a big difference quoting OOC information which is meant to be public knowledge (like the official timeline) and OOC which is not meant to be public knowledge yet (like bits in Prophet Without Honor).

We are trying to roleplay here characters who grew up in the universe of AO, went to school and maybe University; there is just tons of information our characters would have naturally acquired about the world which somehow we have to simulate, and which we have to look as FC sources to supply. After all, do tell me how did you first learn of Gaia or New Dawn if not through some OOC source?

Originally posted by Daimoness

And besides, all I say - I repeat it once more - is: There will be a time when everyone needs to choose his side, else his side will be chosen for him. If you're not my friend, then you are my enemy. And that's one of the oldest teachings from history.

A time? What time would that be? We've enjoyed a 200 year long stalemate. What makes you think anything is going to change in our lifetimes?

This is all utter nonsense. The specifics of the Clan-Omni conflict on Rubi-Ka is that there are no frontlines. The 'war', such as it is, comprise mostly of covert operations and raids. There is absolutely no reason to involve the Neutrals in it.

And statements such as "if you are not my frend you are my enemy" are just arrogant to the extreme. There are a lot of people who simply believe this century old conflict is neither justified nor necessary. Insisting that everyone should take a side should shows your total scorn for these people's rights to live as they choose.

Wait... isn't what you Clanners accuse Omni-Tek of doing?

Savoy

[Marisha]

I believe the reason why the claim that the Dust Brigade is a clan continues to come from Omni-Tek employees is rooted in the lack of credible data coming from the clans on this matter. On one side, we have the Sentinels announcing that they will not take action against the Dust Brigade, the old Council of Truth refusing to allow Omni-Pol to question two staffers who were suspected of supporting the Dust Brigade, and I remember hearing that people in Tir were celebrating after the Dust Brigade planted a bomb in Omni-1 that killed children and pensioners.

On the other hand, we have individuals saying “They shot at me once. Therefore, their not a clan.”

We are being asked to ignore the clans governing bodies’ statements and actions that encourage the Dust Brigade or attempt to conceal the possibility of actual support. I hope you can see why we remain skeptical.

[joshuacrime]

...that you may attribute anything that happens because of one organization as "Clan" happenings. It's not entirely accurate to say that, and the Dust Brigade certainly is not a Clan organization. Just because Simon, the CoT or anyone else has deigned do "nothing" about it (as you say) doesn't mean that nothing is going to be done about it.

Omni-Tek is a big huge organization with a big huge military and a big huge economy. Why don't YOU do something about it if it's bothering you that much? I have been to combats before against the Generals, but no matter how many times you think you have killed these people, they already have their counterattacks planned and go and do them. We do our best to fend these people off, but we can't seem to keep them down. Neither can Omni-Tek, it seems. If it's that big of a problem, and you could have done something about it, you would already have done so.

The idea that we are the only force responsible for removing the threat of the Dust Brigade is kind of funny. We the Clans were only recently attacked by them, although we have been attacked before. Having other people say that we should be doing the entire rooting out of these people is nuts. Why should we be alone in it? The Perpetual Wastelands are a no-mans-land and as untamable as any land on this planet, and there is where the Dust Brigade seems to be always found.

I'd be all for removing this scum from the planet, but so far, none of us have been able to do it no matter how hard we try. Not even the big bad boogeyman Omni-Tek.

[Xhairs]

Originally posted by Vixentrox


No, however, the corporate policies which govern all employee's HAVE cuased such oppression. By remaining with the company you give your tactic support for these policies.

I'm not so simple minded not to recognize that for most it's just a job and a way to put food on the table. I would also wager that many would speak out against the company if they didn't feel that their livlyhood depended on it. Unfortunatly, the regular employee doesn't have many choices in this regard. They can become Clan to show their displeasure. They can apply to a different hyper-corp, which may not be any better and likely would enforce a move to a new planet. Or they can suck it up in silence. The last option, fighting their way to the top of the food chain seems very remote to most rank and file Omni I would imagine. As you said...billions of employees....but only handful make policy for the whole company.

So what would you have us do then? Leave the company untill only the realy sick and twisted remain, people like Seventshadow? Oh yeah, all the good people leave, and then the ones that suggest nervegassing the entire northern hemisphere can have at it without anyone acting break for them. Not a bright idea if you ask me.

Yes, there are a few that make policy, that makes those of us, those that want peace and being able to walk around without weapons and armor, worth even more. Because if we are not here to take maybe just that one policy making spot, then where would the Clans be?

And Joshuacrime, WE did nothing to YOU. It was the first Omni administration that did that to the Clan forefathers. Was it wrong? Heck yes. Was it right to rise against the administration at that time? Oh yeah. Does that give you the right to transfer guilt from a parrent to a child and so on for generations? Does it?

[Marisha]

Originally posted by joshuacrime
It's not entirely accurate to say that, and the Dust Brigade certainly is not a Clan organization. Just because Simon, the CoT or anyone else has deigned do "nothing" about it (as you say) doesn't mean that nothing is going to be done about it.

Again, the Dust Brigade is not a clan, because we say it isn’t a clan. Is it such an unreasonable request that we want evidence to the contrary? We have allegations of financial support from the old Council. We have Silverstones announcement that he will not take action against them. To counter this evidence, we get “but they’re not a clan.”

Give us some evidence and watch the arguments end. That’s all we ask.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
Why don't YOU do something about it if it's bothering you that much? I have been to combats before against the Generals, but no matter how many times you think you have killed these people, they already have their counterattacks planned and go and do them. We do our best to fend these people off, but we can't seem to keep them down.

We are. We have tracked a financial trail suggesting that the old Council was giving financial support. As for the encampment in the Wastes, it’s widely believed that this is not the main base, but a decoy to distract the weak minded. Your evidence seems to point to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
The idea that we are the only force responsible for removing the threat of the Dust Brigade is kind of funny.

I don’t believe any of us have suggested that. Please support your argument. We have, however, asked for evidence stronger that “but they aren’t” when we point to possible clan/Dust Brigade ties.

[Dabblez]

Oh I don't think goign Clan realy is an option for most Omni employess. Sure I can understand people not approving some of Omni-Tek policies, but what kind of person is willing to leave everything, friends, family and home behind (other than perhaps some sad miscontent who has no friends or family) just to make a point. For most people there is more to life than politics.

Bear also in mind that whatever one may think of Omni-Tek, you got to ask yourself what have the Clan done that is so great? Half of the major Clans, the Eco-Warriors, the Sentinels, the Knights as run by lunatics. And ever since mining deregulation I don't really see much difference in how Omni and Clan act towards each other, the neutral and the planet itself.

Savoy