Current Doctor Issues, Concerns and Suggestions

[Mekh]

Bump for this - I'm quite serious when I'm saying this is close to a game breaker for a doctor on BS. Never experienced a nano with such tremendous impact on a few select professions, without any possibility of adapting to any sort of defense against it.

/agree...

[Mmba]

These are the general Idea of stuff that i posted. Let me know if i was accurate with what i said. if not, i'll edit and update it:



I realize that 'Complete Heal' doesnt actually completely heal. Its a misnomer.

However, the new and Improved Complete Heal isnt very useful either. Think about it: (and im not even touching on its reqs either)

BI heals for 8017-9317. With 20% healing efficiency (a doc can get almost +50% HE, so this is a very conservative number), BI will heal for (roughly) 10k-11.2k. Plus the extra 3k hp bonus. So 13k-14.2k. and this is in roughly 5 seconds. (9 sec BI cast time, instacasted, and 4 sec recharge, plus maybe a bit of lag after)

Lets put BI up against the new CH. If you reduced the 12 second CH to 3 seconds (same time/ agg bar setting as instacasting BI), thats 15 seconds. That is equal to 3 BI's: 1 with a temp hp heal, and 2 without. (since the 3rd heal came at 10 seconds, the first hasn't expired yet).

mathematically, thats 13k+10k+10k - 14.2+11.2+11.2 ~= 33k-36k

Improved CH heals for 100k. thats like 3 times as much.

So why am i complaining?

Uh, who has 100k hp these days? alot of profs have under 10k, really. so one BI is a full CH for them. Even if we're talking about a 50k HP enforcer, he's obviously tanking something, so 1. your gonna wanna be healing him constantly, 2. Hes gonna want the +3k hp from your heal, and 3. if your using this nano to counter a very high crit, do you think you really have the 2.5-3 secs (time it will take for most to cast it) before the tank gets whacked again and dies anyway?

Why not give the docs something that we can really use?

What im talking about is team heals. yes, remember conglomerate health plan? that crappy little heal that you got away from using after you got Lifegiving elixir at level 100 and totally stopped using after CR at 175.

why does it have to be that way?

I see no reason how a high level doc team heal shouldnt be implemented. (team health plan and alpha and omega don't count. theyre both jokes.) It wouldnt screw up pvp balance at all, because 1. nobody teams for pvp, and 2. even if they did, single heals would/should be better anyway.

There needs to be a team version of the SL heals. call them "Team-Enhanced xxxx" (BI, CR, etc)

Team Enhanced BI should have the same attack/recharge as BI. 9s attack, 4s recharge. It should heal significantly less. 2672-3105 damage, to all members of a doctor's team. (thats the numbers of BI, divided by 3. feel free to adjust the heal to whatever is thought to be balanced) There doesnt even have to be a temp HP associated with it (it would be nice, but i dont expect it at all.)

It would just be something thats better than what we have, and is actually useful. Its also completely not overpowered, because we have alot that exists already. This is just the continuation of a line we already have which is nice, but outdated. Why not make our lives easier?

I encorage anybody to find a fault in my reasoning as to why this won't (or hasnt been already, for that matter) implemented. i really can't fathom why somebody would be against it.



and also another seperate issue i raised.



I have 3 issues here:

1. I found myself yesterday posting the general message that "doctor evades don't matter", and i was bothered by this.

Why, in a game that encorages character specialization, number crunching, and uniqueness, is the doctor profession forced to use every piece of +nano init that we can get our hands on? whats the purpose of giving us choices about all kinds of different gear to wear if all we really want is enough init to cast our heals on full defense, so that stuff like evades, nano resist, etc actually mean something to our class again. cause frankly, they dont mean much right now.

im gonna restate the problem in one sentence before i offer a solution: a doctor can't get the 3600 nano init required to instacast his best heal on full defense, and thus is forced to play at or near full agg.

yes, it has gotten better since LE, but adding an item here or there with 100 nano init isnt solving the problem. doing this is only killing the diversity of the class. by giving us nano init in every slot available to wear, your basically dictating the exact setup that every 220 doc should have if they want to be able to heal on full defense. I dont think thats right, and i know most would agree with me, including you peeps that work for FC.

what do i suggest?

1. the goal here: to lower the amount of nano init needed to 2600 from 3600 by making the nano init nerf after 1200 affect docs less
2. give does a nano, or perk, or something that adds +alot (anything except something that needs to be equipped in an armor/util/implant/etc. slot). ideally, (again, i would say 2600 is the perfect number. not too high that you need to wear everything that gives +nano init, but definately high enough that you need to make sacrifices in your setup.)
3. Reduce the casting time of sl heals (ideally, 1.5-2 seconds off of BI would be the number here.) this is the least preferred method, because our dot-ting times would be left untouched, thus making those longer. but it is a semi-viable fix none the less.
_________

2. Why is a class that is based on survivability and genetically manipulating for both harm and good no longer able to do so effectively any more?

GTH comes to mind immediately, and im sure theres others too. this is more of a general question than a math problem really. Why aren't we able to perform this function any longer, which used to be the staple of our class.

_________

3. If doctors are supposed to be pistol users, can we get pistol added to support symbs?

If nothing else, all other professions that would be affected by the adding of pistol to support symbs wouldnt really be affected anyway. The current list of Support symb profs: Trader, Adventurer, Meta-Physicist, Martial Artist, Keeper, Doctor, Fixer.

Trader - has artillery line, which has weapon skills in it.
Adventurer - ditto.
Meta-Physicist - extermination line has weapon skills
Martial Artist - support symbs already have MA in them.
Keeper - not a pistol class
Fixer - not a pistol class, and has artillery as well

Doctor - why are we so special?

Doctors are so special that we're the only support profession that doesnt have access to our main weapon in our symb class? we're being forced into using implants in these slots. i dont see why this is so, especially with the coming of the doctor pistols (dare i ask for MR in support symbs too? is that going over the top? )

again, this is another change which i think makes our life generally easier and doesnt affect too much else anyway. consider the following symb: click.
what harm does it do to put pistol into that symb?
1. its obviously now our main weapon
2. it makes our life easier to have this in symbs
3. our 1k AR modifier is crap anyway, so pvp wise, somebody who wouldn't have had pistol in there otherwise is getting like what, 15-20 AR?

yes, i know that line X is missing this, and line Y is missing that, but its unfair to be the only class (that i can think of, prove me wrong if you can) that doesnt have access to the line of weapons to which that class was supposed to use.




I realize that this is a huge rant, but i felt that these 3 are the most basic gameplay issues (non-bug related) thats affecting the doctor community right now.[/QUOTE]

[Ober]

Looks great mmba, except that we theoretically CAN reach 3600 nanocinit

Tho having virtually no evades, nr, ar or hp.
And barely selfing BI.

[Stitchgal]

Great post on the new CH. I see it as utterly useless unless they give enfs 100k HP and a new boss mob that hits for 70k (back to old CH-Chain days :P). I totally agree there.

Of your three issues point 1 has certainly annoyed me most. Looking at our prof specific AI perk line "Embrace": this looks like the perfect line that could fully perked give us somewhere between 1k and 1.5k extra nano inits.

Point 3 is "second up" for me. Would love to replace those implants again (I'd add "Burst" to the list of things that would be nice in there too, but don't wanna get too greedy )

Point 2 is the lowest priority for me. GTH is annoying yea, but hey, traders always needed love. A little suggestion here would be to make it removable by our "Vaccinate 1" and "Vaccinate 2" which removes ransacks/deprives already. That way it would drain our nano, but it wouldn't render us useless for a full minute unless of cause our perks are used up - and if the trader can land it three times then its just tough luck - if you meet your nemesis prof and are alone: run!

[Mmba]

Looks great mmba, except that we theoretically CAN reach 3600 nanocinit

Tho having virtually no evades, nr, ar or hp.
And barely selfing BI.

yes, i realize that. but not practically. and i didnt wanna gimp my argument by throwing around hypothetical crappy setups.

[Ober]

yes, i realize that. but not practically. and i didnt wanna gimp my argument by throwing around hypothetical crappy setups.

Well, you could pimp it with "the HP of a fixer, evades of a TL5 MA, heals of an adv and the damage of a pre-LE trader in perk reset"

[XenonDe]

Well, you could pimp it with "the HP of a fixer, evades of a TL5 MA, heals of an adv and the damage of a pre-LE trader in perk reset"

I don't see me reaching those evades at 220/30 let alone with full nano init setup
Can you make your post a extra post mmba? stickied, announced, quoted in every other profession forum and mailed to funcoms office.

[Mmba]

I don't see me reaching those evades at 220/30 let alone with full nano init setup
Can you make your post a extra post mmba? stickied, announced, quoted in every other profession forum and mailed to funcoms office.

good idea. done

[Avari]

Thanks for copy'ing that post Mmba

When the time comes to re-make the doctor issues/concerns list I'd suggest the layout is changed - would be nice with a section for PvM issues/concerns and a section for PvP issues concerns - maybe even a third section for issues affecting both in order to create a good overview. FC themselves have put a strong focus on PvP with the release of Lost Eden, and I think it is only diligent that we adapt to this and relay our concerns in specific fields of game play.

[XenonDe]

That sounds like a very good idea.

[XenonDe]

We asked for that several times but what I'd like to see one day is something like Nanite enhanced Triple dot.

Nanite Enhanced triple dot
NaCost: 3000
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: Combat
Duration: 00:00:30
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 9s (capped at 1 second)
Recharge 4.00s

Modifier:
User	Cast	Target	Triple Dot A
User	Cast	Target	Triple Dot B
User	Cast	Target	Triple Dot C

Triple Dot A
NaCost: 1
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: DOT Strain A
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 0.01s
Recharge 0.01s

Modifier:
Target	Hit	Health	Poison -502 .. -502	 15 hits, 2s delay

Triple Dot B
NaCost: 1
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: DOT Strain B
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 0.01s
Recharge 0.01s

Modifier:
Target	Hit	Health	Poison -428 .. -428	 15 hits, 2s delay

Triple Dot C
NaCost: 1
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: DOT Strain C
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 0.01s
Recharge 0.01s

Modifier:
Target	Hit	Health	Poison -453 .. -453	 15 hits, 2s delay

Total damage would be 1383/2s, which is 60% of the damage from triple dotting but at the cost of one cast. In pvp less damage then one of the higher C dots.
Stacking order should be to not overwrite the other dots.

It will help in alpha damage situations, and we can use Viral combination more easily, while it won't increase our damage for high hp monsters.
It will also make landing the A and B line in pvp easier if just for using Viral combination.

[Ober]

We asked for that several times but what I'd like to see one day is something like Nanite enhanced Triple dot.

Nanite Enhanced triple dot
NaCost: 3000
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: Combat
Duration: 00:00:30
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 9s (capped at 1 second)
Recharge 4.00s

Modifier:
User	Cast	Target	Triple Dot A
User	Cast	Target	Triple Dot B
User	Cast	Target	Triple Dot C

Triple Dot A
NaCost: 1
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: DOT Strain A
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 0.01s
Recharge 0.01s

Modifier:
Target	Hit	Health	Poison -502 .. -502	 15 hits, 2s delay

Triple Dot B
NaCost: 1
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: DOT Strain B
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 0.01s
Recharge 0.01s

Modifier:
Target	Hit	Health	Poison -428 .. -428	 15 hits, 2s delay

Triple Dot C
NaCost: 1
NCU cost: 55
Nanoline: DOT Strain C
Range: 20m
Speed:
Attack 0.01s
Recharge 0.01s

Modifier:
Target	Hit	Health	Poison -453 .. -453	 15 hits, 2s delay

Total damage would be 1383/2s, which is 60% of the damage from triple dotting but at the cost of one cast. In pvp less damage then one of the higher C dots.
Stacking order should be to not overwrite the other dots.

It will help in alpha damage situations, and we can use Viral combination more easily, while it won't increase our damage for high hp monsters.
It will also make landing the A and B line in pvp easier if just for using Viral combination.

Speaking of which, why isn't our top dots unremovable and 1 min duration like GTH?

[Avari]

Speaking of which, why isn't our top dots unremovable and 1 min duration like GTH?

Because our DoTs are balanced as opposed to GTH

I hope that the issue of GTH will be brought into consideration for our issues list. While I agree that on the trader side of the nano it is working as it should, and it correctly offers an opportunity to prolong the defensive capability of nanobot guard (as I've understood it), but that on the target side, ie. the debuff that hits you, there are significant balance issues. GTH does the exact same thing that ENSD does (shuts down any and all nano casting), but it has both significantly lower recharge, far longer duration and is non-removable.

[Ober]

Because our DoTs are balanced as opposed to GTH

Well, true, then again, dots aren't balanced vs GTH

So rather than fight for a nerf of GTH, we could fight for dots with same duration and nonremovable

[wyldebeast]

Just adding a point to the bug list.

Since last patch I've noticed that executing a BGH locks the entire line for 10 min, effectively meaning that no other BGHs nor Viral Combination perk can be used during this time. This mean that you can actually only use 1 BGH, since they now share the same locktime. Please see to it that this is fixed.


*sorry if this is already on the list, I skimmed through the thread and didn't see it mentioned before*

[Mmba]

keep in mind that this isnt the bug list, this is the suggestions list. stuff that is broken is a bug, but if its a design flaw or something that you think doctors need, then it is a suggestion and should be put here.


after 17.7 comes out and the content is made public, i will create a new Issues and Concerns thread, since this one is quite old. I will include these issues, the issues from my rant thread, and anything else new to be added in one large thread. (at which point they will be linked from the new thread and the old ones will be unstickied)

not that anybody needs to worry or do anything .... just putting that information out there so you can see im doin my best here

[Ober]

Btw, GTH is still an issue.

[Avari]

Btw, GTH is still an issue.

bump - I'd like to see this in our concerns list

[Ober]

My little list of issues (and suggestions):

1. GTH (Yes, it's my number 1)
Fun part of this nano, is that it really made me decide on not putting IP in nano pool in the end.
*Make it do what it's supposed to do, atleast according to description: Set nano delta to 0.
*If that's not possible, set it to debuff nano delta with -300 or something. that'd put most in -50 to -100 nano delta.
*Also make it removable, put it in the NSD-removers from nano doctorate, and then let traders cast/refresh it even if they already have (so one cast isn't enough to win).
*Put it in Virus Scanners (2x ql 125 should be enough)
*Potentially add it in free movement (like 5 fm's would clear it).
*If it stays the way it is, make it totally refill nano at end of duration.
*Make it of similar cast/recharge/duration ENSD has. 1min duration of a totally disable someone else is silly imo.
*Give docs Grand Theft Regeneration (-3000 heal delta, remove 25k hp on enforcers and put a +600 heal delta on doc, + make it disable all weapons and nanos).

2. Full def.
I've already calced around 17.2 or smt., that we actually CAN reach enough nanocinit to cast BI full def. Ofc., it's a purely hypothetical setup which rely on OSB's, and that would leave us with the hp of a fixer, evades of a 130 ma, and offense/nr of a 150 doc.

*Shave (atleast) a second off BI cast time.
*Give us 600-1200 nanocinit somewhere, pref. deck slots or a nano, possibly bracers, utils or implant.
*Increase return of investment in nanocinit post 1200, for docs.
*Make us a high-nanocost long-cast BI-over time that casts BI on us every 4-6s (randomly), checks nanoskills on execution, and breaks on stuns/capping, and breaks on casting BI(and lesser) on self (but not by others and not on ICH).

All of the above, except * number 4 would still leave us more or less reverting back to good old CH when any 1 init debuff hits us.

3. Dot C.
Put mp dot in it's own line. They are not doctors.

4. Sacrifices for HP.
Most doctors sacrifice a lot to gain HP.
Sacrifice nanoskill buffing armor.
Sacrifice weaponskill buffing armor.
Sacrifice nanoinit buffing armor.

*Make us want to use Combined officers. As it is now, it's pretty much crap. Buffing up spiritual lead bots to match the other types would be a way to start. Make it buff nano delta, nano resist and nanocinit. Right now, spiritual bots is more or less shop food. (I think I have about 10 of those somewhere in my inventory).
*Give us more stuff that buffs what doctors are about: MA, Pistol, Shotgun (or just plain AAO instead of weapon skills), Max Health, Nano delta, Nanocinit, BM, MM, PM and MC. Pref. w/o giving up too much Max Health.

Reason for this is mainly that art/inf profs. run around with 3k + ar, and around 1500-1800'ish nanoskills.
Docs run around with 1.5k-2k weapon skills, 2.1k-2.5k(rite, with full arith) bm/mm, 200-300 less pm/mc and a total of around 200 aao.
If you add it up, inf/arty gets 4.7k total in "when you start to be good, but you still have atleast 300 more skill to gain" setup, docs get 4.5k total in "omfg you sacrificed all your hp" setup. And 2k weapon skill + together with 2.5k nanoskills I don't really see happening anyways.


5. Buff up our symbs.

*arti and inf symbs has nanoskills, why we don't get weaponskills in support symbs? MA (ok, it's there), bow, pistol, fling, burst, as, shotgun, ranged energy would be minimum. Wouldn't even have to be triple clustered. R-arm, brain, r-wrist, l-hand and r-hand would be enough really. (which means waist and eye left out atleast, might even skip fling or burst from rarm).
*arti and inf symbs has nanoskills, and support symbs don't have weaponskills. Why not double the gain in nanoskills for support symbs? Or put "support related" skills in symbiants adventurers, fixers, keepers etc wouldn't want to use, like waist/leg/feet.

6. "Already casting".

*Just redo the damn code. Can't really be that hard. Like put procs/auras etc in a different queue, ie them blocking weapons rather than nanos.

7. Our superior treatment
I just wish for this to give us an edge again, besides less stress in getting on what everyone else can get on already.

8. Mali prohib.
Change it from 85% nr resist and 100% attack, to 100% nr resist and whatever needed to make it similiar in difference in attack (120% ?). This way AAD counts for less when resisting this perk.
Silly that AAD counts for more than NR when resisting this perk

Probably more, but what I had on my mind for now