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Thread: High end fixer Weapons - Damage Comparisons

  1. #1

    High end fixer Weapons - Damage Comparisons

    Another weapon damage analysis: this time focusing on the Pandemonium running, end game fixer. How does the various good SMG’s perform at the peak of Fixer Power?

    For simplicity I have used stats close to my own as a lvl 215 opifex fixer as basis for the comparison. These figures may or may not be relevant for you – other stats and equipment will certainly change the damage numbers, but the relative strengths and shortcomings of each weapon should still apply.

    Base Stats:

    Attack skill: 1900
    Burst skill: 1350
    Skill lock modifier: -11 (left hand QL 220 symbiant and Headband of Haste)
    Combat duration: 60 seconds
    Damage modifiers: + 300 damage pr shot
    Base ranged init: 1570
    Ranged init with 1/1 guns: 1200 (using a 8% crit scope)
    Ranged init with slower guns: 1750 (using TIM scope)

    A few things to keep in mind when calculating weapon damage at high skill values:

    1) Extra damage for attack rating over 1000 points is reduced compared to the formula used for calculating damage up to 1000 points of attack rating. The damage reduction varies from class to class, but for fixers the following seem to apply:
    @1200 attack rating : Extra damage is reduced to 33% of normal
    @1350 attack rating : Extra damage is reduced to 33% of normal
    @1500 attack rating : Extra damage is reduced to 33% of normal
    @1700 attack rating : Extra damage is reduced to 28% of normal
    @1900 attack rating : Extra damage is reduced to 25% of normal
    The above figures are the result of measuring Crit damage vs zero AC mobs (leets!) at various skill intervals, using a MTI - Russian Good Day – Deluxe and a Premium Michael Patriot Ffi 29B as test guns (both of which have 2500 Max Beneficial Skill, ensuring that MBS would not screw with the results)

    2) Ranged init above 1200 is only 1/3 as effective in improving weapon speed as Ranged init below 1200 points. This fact gets very interesting when trying to get guns slower than 1/1 to fire at full speed when going full 0% aggressive.

    3) Skill lock reduction values can affect the recharge of specials of a weapon. How it works is explained in this thread. The effect of skill lock reduction items is incorporated in the damage figures below.

    4) I realise that the The Lord / Lady of Envy has wield requirements waaay higher than the skill values used in the comparison. However, I don’t want to use higher skill values for the comparison, since I don’t have reliable data for damage reduction past 1900ish attack rating as explained in 1) above. So for the sake of this thread, just assume that you have somehow managed to twink the Lord / Lady of Envy on, and thereafter gone back down to the above figures once the twinking gear was put aside.

    For anyone interested, a comparison of weapon damage for a Title level 6 fixer can be found here.

    Comparison:

    Blinded Blackbird (dual wielded) vs Zero AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 20 reg shots @ 1338 damage, 8 bursts @ 3681 damage
    Off hand damage: 20 reg shots @ 1338 damage
    Total damage: 82 968 points @ 0% agg

    Blinded Blackbird (dual wielded) vs Unlimited AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 20 reg shots @ 611 damage, 8 bursts @ 1734 damage
    Off hand damage: 20 reg shots @ 611 damage
    Total damage: 38 312 points @ 0% agg

    Superior Perennium Beamer vs Zero AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1603 damage, 8 bursts @ 4422 damage
    Total damage: 83 466 points @ 0% agg

    Superior Perennium Beamer vs Unlimited AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1055 damage, 8 bursts @ 2955 damage
    Total damage: 55 290 points @ 0% agg

    Conflagrant Syndicate Messenger Gun vs Zero AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1665 damage, 8 bursts @ 4098 damage
    Total damage: 82 734 points @ 0% agg

    Conflagrant Syndicate Messenger Gun vs Unlimited AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1381 damage, 8 bursts @ 3339 damage
    Total damage: 68 142 points @ 0% agg

    Metropolis Blaster / Influencer vs Zero AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1740 damage, 8 bursts @ 5013 damage
    Total damage: 92 304 points @ 0% agg

    Metropolis Blaster / Influencer vs Unlimited AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 620 damage, 8 bursts @ 1815 damage
    Total damage: 33 120 points @ 0% agg

    Lord / Lady of Envy vs Zero AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1413 damage, 8 bursts @ 4098 damage
    Total damage: 75 174 points @ 25% agg

    Lord / Lady of Envy vs Unlimited AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1360 damage, 8 bursts @ 3948 damage
    Total damage: 72 384 points @ 25% agg

    Lord / Lady of Envy vs Zero AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 25 reg shots @ 1413 damage, 8 bursts @ 4098 damage
    Total damage: 68 109 points @ 0% agg

    Lord / Lady of Envy vs Unlimited AC opponent
    Primary hand damage: 25 reg shots @ 1360 damage, 8 bursts @ 3948 damage
    Total damage: 65 584 points @ 0% agg

    A few observations based on the above figures:

    - The Metropolis Blaster / Influencer is the best fixer weapon for use vs low AC mobs. In fact, the only weapon that is lagging behind vs low AC mobs is the Lord / Lady of Envy which suffer due to low maximum damage and a not too impressive crit modifier.

    - Vs high AC mobs the Lord / Lady of Envy is the best, followed very closely by the Conflagrant SMG. The Superior Perennium Beamer also does well. The Blackbirds and the Metropolis Blaster / Influencer do very poorly vs high ac mobs – not surprisingly considering their low minimum damage.

    - It will be really hard to get the Lord / Lady of Envy to 1/1 speed at full defensive - a whopping skill of 2550 Ranged Initiative is required. The Lord / Lady of Envy are therefore listed twice.. once at 25% agg (which gives 1/1 speed with 1750 RI), and once at 0% agg (which gives 1,44/1 speed).

    - Considering how hard it is to get the Lord / Lady of Envy, and its very high wield requirements I must say I am disappointed by its relative performance. The Conflagrant SMG does close to the same damage, is much easier to acquire and is self equip able.

    Techno mumbo jumbo for the above calculations (in case anyone wonders): Base crit chance is 3%. A regular shot is an average incorporating damage from critical hits. A burst is 3 bullets at average damage, but with no crit chance. Higher attack ratings will produce more crits, favouring weapons with good crit modifiers such as the SMG. Dual wielding a gun provides 33% more shots, with each hand doing 50% of the shots. Reload times are taking into account where applicable.
    Last edited by Zura; May 16th, 2004 at 09:34:40.
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  2. #2
    Nice post

    Just bumping it up so it wont dissapear on second page
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
    --Albert Einstein

    Hmm... camping?!?

    Phikks - Fixer
    Grandalph - MP
    Qhite - MA

  3. #3
    Indeed, nice research and as you say, shame the Lord/Lady aren't a tad stronger for being so hard to aquire.
    Ghostimage ..[218.19 Doc]
    Redtail .........[218.14 Fix]
    Finmere .......[150.14 Enf]

  4. #4
    And at that speed.. 2/2.. wont it be hard to get it 1/1 on full deff?

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Charfbiz2
    And at that speed.. 2/2.. wont it be hard to get it 1/1 on full deff?
    Requires 2550 to get to 1/1 at full def. Pretty sure thats impossible.
    Milaim TL6 fixer, Currently smurfing around RK

    Izel TL7 doc, Equip about as outdated as it can get


    Tiger Claw

  6. #6
    More points for you for fixer of the year award.
    Jasmine Ziakara but everybody calls me Jasziak
    Unit Member of The Mockers
    Perks - Armor

    Want to be a Mocker? Ask me.
    Want to RP? Let me know.

  7. #7
    <3 Jasziak :-) Whee I'm collecting points!
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  8. #8
    Nice info Zura, thank you
    Matrofix - 220 (AI 17) atrox fixer [eqp] ::: Member of Legion

  9. #9
    edit: oh you do have the numbers nm

    Thanks, especially for doing that testing on the 1k AR nerf. I'd been meaning to do that but wasn't looking forward to the data collection.
    Last edited by Coldbird; May 12th, 2004 at 12:38:03.

  10. #10
    Very nice. thank you
    Lord "Khalem" Trevallien -=- Fixer Kingpin, proud officer and Loremaster of Ancarim Iron Legion
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    -- Former AO Game Director Marius Enge

  11. #11
    Once again Outstanding im glad to be apart of this great fixer community.

  12. #12
    Sorry to be a necro, just have few things to say..

    First of all, and as always, great job Zura. You rock!
    One small note: You did mention you are talking bout end-game fixer weaponary, but I would still like to add Blinded Blackbirds. Havent recorded my damage with them, and I know you all can go to Auno/AODB, so wont post any links. I just wanted to say that pre-1250 attack ratings, and even for a little while over 1250, the dual Blinded Blackbirds are the best damage you can get(and its GOOD dmg while we at it) versus low ACs. Shame they did make a higher MBS one.
    |>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<|
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    SUPREME A-T-R-O-X POWER

  13. #13
    Really interesting post, thank you for all the great info
    But as a side note to the Lady/ Lord of envy is it's damage type. When I look it up on auno or aodb it says: damage type poison, but if you ask itemsnet ingame it says disease damage. If the last is correct there is no Arul Saba bracers that adds disease and a SMG would be the damage winner even on high AC mobs.
    Anyone found one ingame and can confirm that they actually do poison damage ?
    I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
    I kill with my heart.
    My setup

  14. #14
    how about crit scopes? pretty essencial to high end fixers

    edit: hmm saw now. but still some use 15% scopes
    Last edited by Netustin; May 24th, 2004 at 00:38:32.
    Netu nanogimp Adv, Netustin retired Fixer and alts
    of Nemesis, Rimor

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Zicho
    Really interesting post, thank you for all the great info
    But as a side note to the Lady/ Lord of envy is it's damage type. When I look it up on auno or aodb it says: damage type poison, but if you ask itemsnet ingame it says disease damage. If the last is correct there is no Arul Saba bracers that adds disease and a SMG would be the damage winner even on high AC mobs.
    Anyone found one ingame and can confirm that they actually do poison damage ?
    If it says Poison damage on Itemsnet, then it is poison. Itemsnet doesn't actually store the data values - it just uses the Anarchy Online client's ability to produce the item data when asked to. The links that Itemsnet sends you are nothing more then a LowID, HighID, and a quality level.

    Then again, maybe Funcom made a typo.

    -Ethernal

  16. #16
    Poison / Disease is the same damage type. Sometimes FC describes it as Poison, sometimes as Disease. So yes, I guess it can be classified as a big FC typo :-) Anyway, I don't think it should be a prob to use Arul Saba with the Lord of Envy.
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  17. #17
    Originally posted by Zura
    Poison / Disease is the same damage type. Sometimes FC describes it as Poison, sometimes as Disease. So yes, I guess it can be classified as a big FC typo :-) Anyway, I don't think it should be a prob to use Arul Saba with the Lord of Envy.
    I guess you are right, but still disease and poison are two different ac classes in our skilltree.
    I'm confused, but would really like to try on a Lord/lady just for the looks
    I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
    I kill with my heart.
    My setup

  18. #18
    is the burst recharge 8 secs on all guns? is the burst caped to minimum 8 sec?

    the SMG is 1500 burst cycle, Lord of Envy is 1200 burst cycle and Superior Prennium beamer is 2500 burst cycle.

    doesnt Burst Cycle decde the speed of the burst or am i totaly mistaken?

  19. #19
    The lowest burst recycle on a weapon, after max modification from a high burst skill is calculated by the following formula:

    Burst Weapon Cap = 8s + Weapon Attack speed

    Some good research by the soldier professional Vhalor figured out the formula, for full info, see this thread.

    Using the above formula, the weapons listed in this damage comparisson has the following base burst recycle caps:

    Blinded Blackbird = 9 sec
    Superior Perennium Beamer = 9 sec
    Conflagrant Syndicate Messenger = 9 sec
    Metropolis Blaster / Influencer = 9,5 sec
    Lord / Lady of Envy = 10 sec

    Under current game mechanic rules, burst recycle times are further modified by skill lock reduction items. According to Cz (see this thread), skill lock modifiers are not supposed to affect special attack recycle times, so this will likely be change sometime in the future, but when (and exactly how) the change will happen is not presently known. Since skill lock modifiers were operational at the time of publishing this comparission, the burst recycle times were modified accoring to -11 skill lock - using the formulaes for calculationg real time recycle rates found in this thread.

    The forumla yields the following results:

    Blinded Blackbird (base recycle 35s x 11% x 0,25) = -0,96 sec
    Superior Perennium Beamer (base recycle 45s x 11% x 0,25) = -1,24 sec
    Conflagrant Syndicate Messenger (base recycle 35s x 11% x 0,25) = -0,96 sec
    Metropolis Blaster / Influencer (base recycle 42s x 11% x 0,25) = -1,16 sec
    Lord / Lady of Envy (base recycle 52s x 11% x 0,25) = -1,43s

    So the modified burst recycle times for the weapons are:

    Blinded Blackbird = 8,04
    Superior Perennium Beamer = 7,76 sec
    Conflagrant Syndicate Messenger = 8,04 sec
    Metropolis Blaster / Influencer = 8,34 sec
    Lord / Lady of Envy = 8,57 sec

    These recycle values all provide 1 initial burst and 7 follow up bursts during a test period of 60 seconds, thus making all the weapons burst 8 times in the comparisson.
    Last edited by Zura; Sep 3rd, 2004 at 21:21:47.
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  20. #20
    Zura, please post a link to this thread in your rooted AI weapons thread. Took me forever to find it and all the new folks would benefit greatly from the work you did.

    P.S. And the title 6 comparison from last May linked in this one. Didn't want to get nailed for necromancy twice.
    Last edited by Cove; Jan 11th, 2005 at 18:27:34.
    RK1 ~Knights Templar~ General
    Goonn, 207 Fixer
    Mairibeth, 182 ENG // Revcove, 182 MP
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    Gaute Godager: There is no camping in Shadowlands.
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