Shadowland

[Telliose]

Considering comeing out with an expansion pack, shouldent thouse members who have been shelling out cash every month since the start get a version free, or atleast a discount of some sort (not to mention the pack)? Also, will members who actuly buy the expansion the first month get a special item for getting it first?

By the way I am not one of the mambers from the beginning, so not asking for a discount for myself.

/me shrugs
/say just a thought

[______________Nexuss]

As far as I understand the game mechanics won't be changed. The skills system will remain the same and all the rules will remain the same.

Players who have bought the expansion will be able to raise some of their skills (based on their specializatoin, I presume) higher than the people without the pack... This WILL give them an advantage and I don't see anything wrong with that. They payed for it after all...

I don't know how the new items will be implemented with regards to the players without the expansion pack, but you can be sure that people who have the addon installed WILL have advatages simply because they have better gear available to them. Again.. nothing wrong with that.

So, what it comes down to is that if you are happy with what you have and don't feel like you need anything else for the time being, don't buy the expansion. However if you want your character to improve on certain skills, get better gear and explore new areas, you must buy it. In either case you'll still be playing the game with one set of rules for everybody.

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Tsk
For what its worth, Diablo II is much worse than the way Funcom is doing it. Those who have not purchased the DII expansion pack may not play with those using expansion characters. They didn't force anyone to get the expansion, but since most people did, fewer people are on the "no expansion" dimension, creating more incentive for people to upgrade.

That's really bad, and I'm really happy for they way funcom is probably going to do it, anyway, there is some "but's"

Originally posted by Tsk
You can be as stubborn as you want saying "I think it's wrong that Funcom is making us pay..." til you're blue in the face, but you just need to realize that this is just how it is, and that YOU CANNOT CHANGE THIS. This is how every MMORPG on the market handles expansion packs.

This is my first MMPORPG, and the first thing that stroke me when reading about the expansion pack was the change of the gamemechanics (skillspecialization) and that it perhaps will not be implemented in the old AO version.

I think it's really strange to change the gamemechanic like this when it's affecting everyone playing AO. If changes only concerned eg. new breeds that was only available for SL players then I'm not saying a word. But the point is that if an Solitus Engineer is fighting a SL Solitus Engineer in the Arena will the SL Engineer win because he has some advantages (spesialized in first aid) - That's the problem, we are same breed, and profession but we are not playing with the same gamemechanic rules.

Originally posted by ryack
I agree that if the game mechanics are changed to much then these changes should also be implemented for the players that are not buying the expansion. They can't balance the game as it is now, how will they ever be able to balance it when they have two sets of rules? Or do you want it to be a buy it or die expansion?

Thank you A game like Anarchy Online should be balanced, if not it's not worth playing. Clans and Omnis are against each other, and sometimes we are even fighting. If the gamemechanics changes only for Shadowland players will this unbalance the game and it will not be "possible" to fight each other. They have removed the old ELLTS as much as possible, making MA Crits buffs self only to improve the PvP part of the game - that's really nice But if the only make changes the gamemechanics one place this will be unbalanced again, why should FC do this????

Originally posted by ryack
I am not talking about items, new zones, raising of level caps or new races to play. These should all be available to expansion only players.
But a fundemental change to the game should be implemented for all. Otherwise you are just trying to get a bit of extra cash out of your subscribers.

The skillsystem is the foundation of Anarchy Online - without this system it wouldn't be possible to be some differently, so a change of the skillsystem should be implemented in both versions. Every changes that is concerning the foundation of AO should be implemented in both versions.

If FC do it differently, and some subscribers are used to PvP and would like to contiune with that you are forced to buy the SL Expansion pack. If not, you will loose all the time since SL Players have an advantage - I think this is very logical and can't see why someone don't understand this.

Originally posted by Fobik
Noone is forcing you to buy anything, to say that someone who pays 20 bucks more then you should only be equal to you makes my head hurt. What kind of logic is this? I work out 7 days a week there for the ppl that work out 1 day a week should be at the same level as me, is basicly what you are saying... think about that.

When I'm talking about equal I'm thinking of that players should be based on the same gamemechanics, new items, shops, playfields isn't what I'm talking about - but I'm talking about the foundation, eg.: the skillssystem, how much XP u get for killing a mob, what levelrange u can team with, PvP range etc.

Ehm, what are u saying, if you are playing 7 days a week and I'm playing one day in a week we should be equal in level??? What kind of statement is that, I have never said that.
But the opposite thing will happen, I will play 7 days a week as a normal AO player and u will be playing one day in a week - and we will be the same level after that period (overstatement). Why? You can specialize into one skills, eg. First Aid and can use much higher QL of First Aid Stims than me because I'm playing under the old gamemechanics/rules. This will prevent you of seeing the Reclaim Terminal as much I will see it - do u get the point?

FINAL POINT, A CHANGE IN THE FUNDAMENTAL GAMEMECHANICS WILL UNBALANCE THE GAME :-/

Btw, I'm really good in math

Originally posted by Koharn
Considering comeing out with an expansion pack, shouldent thouse members who have been shelling out cash every month since the start get a version free, or atleast a discount of some sort (not to mention the pack)? Also, will members who actuly buy the expansion the first month get a special item for getting it first?

I think so too and I'm not one of them

Originally posted by Nexuss
As far as I understand the game mechanics won't be changed. The skills system will remain the same and all the rules will remain the same.

Players who have bought the expansion will be able to raise some of their skills (based on their specializatoin, I presume) higher than the people without the pack... This WILL give them an advantage and I don't see anything wrong with that. They payed for it after all...

If just someone are able to raise their skills more than other (same profession) then it's a change of the gamemechanics.

What would you think about this statement:
Only those who pays an extra monthly fee will be able to reset their IP points, noone else.

We will have the same issue if the gamemechanics are changed in just Shadowland Expansion Pack, only the ones that can afford it are able to improve in a different way than normal AO players. And I'm not talking about new items and armor.

[BoomDoom]

That as this is your first MMORPG you have a complete lack of understanding in the way things work. Its not so much that you're an idiot, and more that you're ignorant.

Problem solved.

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Thugdoom
That as this is your first MMORPG you have a complete lack of understanding in the way things work. Its not so much that you're an idiot, and more that you're ignorant.

Ok, I get it. Before it was the knowledge of the game that made your character, the implant combination, best places to hunt etc. Everyone started at the same place and was equal from the start.

Until now knowledge have been the crucial factor, and when Shadowland Expansion Pack arrives will this not be the factor anymore, money will. Pay for it and u will have advantages over poor people, hmm, sounds like eBay...

I still think its' wrong, new items, playfields, breeds etc can be in an Expansion Pack but not changes in fundamental gamemechanic - that should be common for everyone since we are living in the same world.

Problem solved.

Nope

[_______Heart of Evil]

Originally posted by Thugdoom
That as this is your first MMORPG you have a complete lack of understanding in the way things work. Its not so much that you're an idiot, and more that you're ignorant.

Problem solved.

You haven't shown much enlightenment either...

Let's get something clear... The guy is saying that he feels that it's unfair to offer a certain set of game mechanics to only those who have paid for the expansion. You think he's ignorant because his is his first MMORPG? WTF are you thinking, fanboy?

As it stands, the expansion pack breaks the rule Gaute Whatever-the-hell-his-name-is came up with in his coverup letter explaining why moving one character from RK2 to RK1 was a bad thing; because it was not available to all players.

The expansion pack had better be available as a free download if Funcom ever intends to run a fair game and stand behind thier words. The expansion pack will offer content and equipment only to those who have the expansion and this is clearly opposed to what Gaute had said.

[BoomDoom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Heart of Evil


You haven't shown much enlightenment either...

Let's get something clear... The guy is saying that he feels that it's unfair to offer a certain set of game mechanics to only those who have paid for the expansion. You think he's ignorant because his is his first MMORPG? WTF are you thinking, fanboy?[/QUOTE

Fanboy? Never been called that before. Certainly not when i was banned form this forum 10 times for calling for the deaths of Funcom employees. And Gee whiz, sorry if I'm not enlightened enough for you. I don't live in the perfect Utopia that all those enlightened thinkers are always talking about. I happen to be a little more on the practical side.

Originally posted by Heart of Evil

As it stands, the expansion pack breaks the rule Gaute Whatever-the-hell-his-name-is came up with in his coverup letter explaining why moving one character from RK2 to RK1 was a bad thing; because it was not available to all players.

The expansion pack had better be available as a free download if Funcom ever intends to run a fair game and stand behind thier words. The expansion pack will offer content and equipment only to those who have the expansion and this is clearly opposed to what Gaute had said.

Yeah. I'd like for the expansion pack to be free too. That way Funcom can stop worrying about that pesky staying in business thing and get down to the serious business of packing all their things into boxes and living on the streets.

Get this. the game doesn't have to be fair. I know its tough for some people to wrap their minds around that concept but it doesn't. The game has to offer the people that pay the monthly fee the opportunity to play. That's it. If Funcom wanted to issue a statement that from now on anyone that paid a one time fee of $1,000 would instantly become 250th level its within their right (not that i see them doing that). Now, when an expansion is released in ANY game it offers new content. IF you don't buy the expansion you can't play with the new content. When Rogue Spear Urban Operations came out it had new guns that were better then the old ones. The thing is, game balance wasn't upset at all. Know why? Because people that didn't have Urban Ops couldn'y play with people that did. Only in MMORPG can pre-expansion pack and post-expansion pack versions play with each other. This is the only envirnment that you can choose either to buy it or not and continue to play with the same people.

[BoomDoom]

Originally posted by Krabbus
I still think its' wrong, new items, playfields, breeds etc can be in an Expansion Pack but not changes in fundamental gamemechanic - that should be common for everyone since we are living in the same world.

Not living in a world. Paying to play a game.

For instance. Cars have different options. If you pay for the basic model of a car you don't get the options. Is it fair for a person that paid more for the car to have options that i don't have because i didn't pay as much.

YES IT IS

Its called capitalism. welcome to the planet

[_____________Natelie]

..... It's called marketting...

=P

U americans should know that word extremely well by now.
=P

[BoomDoom]

Originally posted by Natelie
..... It's called marketting...

=P

U americans should know that word extremely well by now.
=P

yes we do, and there's nothing wrong with it at all.

Funcom is a business. As a business they want to make money. They probably figure that their subscriptions will start to go down soon and not up (do to new competitors and just that the game is more or less the same it was over a year ago). So they decide they need to sell something else that will A) make money and B) increase subscritpions. The obvious answer is an expansion pack. It solves both problems. It A) will sell for money and B) with the content/features attract new people to the game

[Laeni]

This is the way expansion packs are for all games. In EQ the basic cap on levels is 50, buy the expansion (I think it was the Kunark one) and you could raise your character to 60. The latest expansion back for EQ has a new "profession" called beastlord. If you didn't buy that expansion you couldn't be a beastlord period.

In the game The Sims, expansion packs gave you new items and emotes. If you didn't buy them, you couldn't use those areas or emotes and you couldn't download certain things because they called for a particular version.

Bottom line is these companies (Verant, Maxis, Funcom and all the others) are in business to make MONEY. They don't make money, they fold. Expansion packs is one of the ways they make money. They can't keep giving away new stuff for free because they wouldn't make a profit that way. And the subscription price that you are paying every month does not cover all the expenses.

It has nothing to do with fairness, it's called business.

[_____________Natelie]

I think it's more like.. KEEP the current players entertained...

Why would a fresh costumer buy a game which has a higher net-price (due to expansions) then other games? (Such as DAoC)

Exspansion packs i aimed for current players i sappose.

It's player-base maintanence, whilst squeezing what they can out of that player-base.

They got us all on a leash, but oh well. I get some mild entertainment in return........

Better then watching TV in some aspect.... or isit? ...

O O DARK ANGEL IS ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Runs over to the TV set*

YEAH, u show'em Jessica Alba! GIRL POWAH! =)

[BoomDoom]

Once a game gets a current expansion pack it tends to add not just gameplay features but also new technology. I didn't even touch Everquest until the second expansion, because it added enough to the game that i finally decided to give it a whack (i did quit shortly therafter, i prefer sci-fi).

The expansion pack does both. It placates the current player base and gives the uniniated another incentive to buy their game. That's why Everquest STILL sells games, which frankly I'm still amazed that it has remained popular.

[_______Revolutionary]

Am I the only one that thinks its ludacris to come out with an expansion pack when the game still doesn't run properly for half the people that play it?

I dunno...just seems silly....

That being said, I will still buy Shadowlands b/c I am lucky enough to not have problems now.

[BoomDoom]

Originally posted by Revolutionary
Am I the only one that thinks its ludacris to come out with an expansion pack when the game still doesn't run properly for half the people that play it?

I dunno...just seems silly....

That being said, I will still buy Shadowlands b/c I am lucky enough to not have problems now.

Well, yeah. I'd still like the game to be better and have fewer bugs, but its vastly improved over where it was a year ago and frankly I'm ready for some new material

[_______Revolutionary]

Originally posted by Thugdoom


Well, yeah. I'd still like the game to be better and have fewer bugs, but its vastly improved over where it was a year ago and frankly I'm ready for some new material

Don't get me wrong, I know how much it has improved since I started in September. I am just a little sad that FC is not following through an fixing things as they should be fixed, instead they are nerfing everything in sight and calling it fixed so they can move on to making more money with their expansion....

Still, if I'm gonna be a nerfed Trader, I'd like to be nerfed in a new place I haven't seen before.

[Goldblock]

Buuhuu to u all that dont want buy it, and want the advantages..
And buuhuu to all the 12 years kids, that cant get mommy to pay for the expansion

I have the money to pay for the expansion, but bla,bla,bla its unfair, so i think it dont want to buy it...lol

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by ryack
Anyway when i am tired of AO or when the expansion comes out i will be cancelling my account. I don not like being forced to buy something. So it's bye bye subscription.

Sad. But good luck in whatever you go to next.

--Tsk

[Mick]

hmm...this thread still going. Just a quick point to add - most expansion packs are usually timed closely to a price reduction of the base game and/or a "bundle" of the original game + the expansion in one box. We already know about the re-release of the original game at a $20 price in the US at least this summer. This should be well before the expansion. So the new package + the expansion will be about $40 which is still quite a bit less than the cost of the original AO at release. This is on purpose to lower the cost of entry for newcomers, essentially letting them catch up to the current state of the game with no cost penalty. I wouldn't be surprised that a few months after Shadowlands is released we'll see the bundle come out at around $30 or less. It just makes sense - good business sense. You price the game to maximize profits and adjust the pricing over time to gain additional revenue from the latecomers and fence sitters. The early adopters pay a premium and most understand that's the price to get it first.

I have no problems how FC is rolling this expansion out, and I accept the way expansions affect game content and mechanics. If I didn't like it I can always cancel my account. Believe me, they expect a few cancellations and plan for it, but will more than offset that lost revenue with new subscriptions and the expansion sales revenues.

Kudos to FC, as long as the expansion is a solid, stable product with worthwhile new content and improved gameplay.

[Razzitazz]

Damn, I think I'll be glad to be in a different dimension then you.

I'll surely pay.

Too bad I can't IP reset the time that I took to read this post.