How to kill a game - Remove Twinking/OEing

[______________Kwoung]

Originally posted by Kuroshio
The major factor in overequipping is how much NCU memory you have. Implants stacking helped. But NOBODY overequipped based solely on the skills they got from implant stacking. It's the size of the buff you can receive. The nanoformula's like Enforcer Essence line and Doctor's Iron Circle and Agent Feline Grace boost base attributes, along with general attribute buffs allowed players to overequip implants. And that remains unaffected. Nevermind those nanoformula's effect on overequipping armor when combined with oe'd implants.

And the implant stacking did absolutely nothing to stop engineers from summoning slayerdroids long before they met the requirements to have one and then rampaging all night with them. Preventing implant stacking did nothing to prevent low level players that squeezed into every complit implant they could to overequip NCU belts and NCU memory from receiving skill wrangles that significantly boost base weapon skills.

You are completely and utterly wrong.

Without implant stacking the QL of NCU you can install is now quite limited, thus limiting the number of NCU you have available to recieve those buffs. A lower level engineer can not have 150 NCU now, it is impossible, other players can not recieve all those other buffs you mentioned, they just do not have the space because they could not massively OE their NCU through gaining illegitimate CompLit through the stacking bug.

NCU space is now limited, thus the level/amount of buffs youcan recieve to OE is limited.

[_____________Kasimir]

Originally posted by yesiamstoned


I never bought credits on ebay, I played my main from nothing to where he is now and yes I have a twink char and yes I do know survival skills. Now with my twink char I just go after the harder mobs sooner and push the limits. Yes I can still design a good twinked out char within the 20% limit but now the options are alot more limited than they were before(class and weaponchoice).

Pretty much the only people I see whining are the ones who for some reason never really used the game mechanics to optimize their char. This is just another nerf intended to close the gap between the people who dont play the game fully in it's current form and those that do.

Yesiamstoned 141 nt RK2

See this is where we differ...and I'm not saying per se that you or anyone else is an ebsay or a cheater. You say you only get the full experience by exploiting the system to make yourself as powerful as possible, making you superior to others the same level. I say you get the full experience by playing through the hard way.

My point by the way, is not so much that people going the easy way are doing a bad thing, so much as I'm tired of hearing them say the game is unplayable or too hard. Maybe for them, but the rest of us do just fine.

[______________Kwoung]

Originally posted by Kasimir
14.2 force everyone into mediocrity? More like fair. Why should someone who bought all his credits on Ebay, or someone who'se level 200 alt donated him a sizable fortune, be able to make himself so superior to everyone else in his range that he can level 5, 10, 20 times faster? Why should he have that advantage just because he was A) RL rich or b)ic rich. It's not fair to those that actually play the game. the people that don't OE massively, and work hard every level to earn what they get, deserve to go far. Not those that exploited the game to get ahead. EOS.

Fair? What exactly in life is fair?

And more to the point, how does what someone else does in the privacy of their own mission affect you? It upsets you that they level faster, well that sounds like a personal problem to me really.

No offense, but your point seems to be based on nothing but the fact that if you can't or choose not to be a certain way, everyone else should suffer the same hardships as you. To me that sounds more unfair than the other option. Why should anyone be limited just because some other folks choose not to be or can not afford to be, as of yet. Chances are, with as easy it is to make money in this game, they will be able to afford it within in very short time. Most of my guildmates/friends have managed to buy a Yalm(4.5 million crdits) by level 60, which took them an entire 2 months of playing to get to... un-overequiped, being poor in AO does not last long, if you have the slightest clue on how to play.

[_____________Kasimir]

Flann, that's not what I'm saying..I'm saying people who play the other way have no right to say the game is now unfair or unplayable. And seeing as how I bought my Yalm myself, I know it's possible to accrue cash..hey I'm a fixer, we blitz like mad!

I'm saying that the people that are coming on here.."I'm level 55 and I can't survive with out QL 125 Tank armor! FU Funcom! you made the game too hard!" Should shut up and quit whining. Enjoy the fact that you got through the game as far as you havethe easy way, and get yourself ready to survive through the OE patch..plus to be frankly honest, this is NOT gonna hurt peole the way you think it will...the % reductions for IE are slight, and you'll still find you're OE'd gear working better then gear equivalent to your QL. Just not as uber. Oh well.

[__________Mr.Nothing]

EO is still verry possible, and it will still be possible to have ql 100 gear on a lvl 50.

how do i know, because i have done it. With the right amount of cash, and implants well thought out you can pretty much get ql 200 implants at lvl 75. I wont explain the process in detail but you just get one implant that helps you wear another and build yourself up from there.

This patch doesnt stop super uber twinker, nor doese it intend to.

The onlything it stops is ever dick jane and tom from getting a complit buff, to equip a belt to get 100ncu at lvl 3 then getting a 132 wrangle to have a ql 130 weapon at lvl 5.


Now it is going to take SKILL to oe, as it should be.

OE is needed it gives players something to strive for, being the best. And smart players wont be affected by this patch, only people who are Trader and MP dependent.

This also helps to balance the classes, and also help balance pvp.


I say from what ive seen listed this was a great patch. Lets just hope its bug free

[_____________Kasimir]

Exactly..this isn't really gonna stop OE'ing at all..it's gonna make it harder, it's gonna make it a little less effective..but I see nothing wrong with that.

By now I've prolly got myself painted as a hellfire and brimstone type..not really..I'm mostly just try to say quit whining and play.

[Aeriagloris]

enough of this!

everyone is complaining and argueing over this, its so annoying already.

look, im not a major twink, my engineer was, but my adventurer,soldier,docotr, and MP arent
now, for when it comes to playin as a non twink, the game is as hard as hell, e****ially if your just starting off, there is no way in hell you can get any possible weapons or sort of income earlie on, making it hard.
hell, they dont even give ya 1k credits to start with or anything, and a damned lvl 2 sword or gun is 2-4k!!!!
thats just not right!

what ive noticed in this game and what people are comparing this to is like real life.
theres the rich, and the poor
the hard workers, and the executives

NOW, think of it like this
those twinkers and ebay buyers are the executives getting lots of money and lvls easier for less work (alot like real life)

and the normal hard working player is probably some guy just trying to make ends meet workin at bestbuy or a resturant and works realy hard but gets less.(exactly like real life)

now whats happening to the game from this patch sint gonna be HELL, it may ruin the engineer and make the trader a super pvp char, and the MP the ultra beerdy pet class, but its also making it so that you dont need to spend as many credits to get to a point where you can survive in this game.
those with less credits will have a better chance at this game.
but remember that there also making the mobs weaker, so the game will stay in balance.
plus this leaves a window of oppertunity to fix alot more of the games bugs, although it will also create alot more it will allow them to be fixed to (whenever FC has the time to, which will hopefully be in the near future)
the only issues i see with this patch is the class balance issue which is easilie resolved.

congrats funcom! your taking a step in the right direction!

and i want all the whinners to stop for a secoand and take a good look, at what will actually come from this patch and how the class balance issue WILL be fixed.
and i ALSO want all these people who are talkin trash about twinkers so shut up and stop being so predjedous twards ppl that like to twink, there just having fun, and your making it annoying to have any fun.

cant we all just get along?

[Kuro]

I had a nice lengthy reply addressing all your points that the reply timeout promptly ate. But this point stood out most of all.

Originally posted by Mona
2. Here I said, the fact that a higher level character has the credit to OE himself or his alts should not bother a lower level character. Or The fact that someone who started the game a couple months earlier than you has more credits or other resources to OE himself or his alts should not bother you.

And you said:

Your analogy sucks. A new grad walking into his first job doesn't have to compete against a guy that was there for 15 years, reincarnated himself as a new grad, and left himself all his worldly possessions to give himself a jumpstart. Yes, your level 124 character should (and better) be better than a newly created level 1 character.

You are actually agreeing with me so far, because you said, that a newly grad should not worry about competing with a senior guy.



OK so this is where we diverse. And that is where you start to think that my analogy sucks. Actually it doesn't if you only use a bit of imagination. Let's say a 20 year old live in a nice massion because his Dad is rich. Does that compose any reason for the other 20 year old who cannot live in a nice massion because he does not have a rich Dad to want to pass a law to limit how big a massion the first kid can live in? In the AO game, if Player A (NOT character A but PLAYER A) has played 6 months long and now he made another lvl 1 character. What is wrong with his lvl 1 character being better than the other lvl 1 character created by Player B, who has just started the game?

In my mind, we are competing on the Player level, since we all pay our $12 a month to play a game. And you are saying that the competition should be at the character level. Please go back and re-read that same paragraph with that sucky analogy. Towards the end, I explained why an MMORPG would not retain players if they do not provide incentives to that living breathing thing in front of the computer some advantages for being around the game world longer.

You're the one wanting to compete on the Character Level and not the Player Level. If Player A is a better player than Player B, he will outperform Player B with all things being equal between their characters. Your level 1 character against a completely new player's level 1 character still has the advantage of game knowledge you as a player have accumulated. But OE requires twinking. And twinking is all character based.

This is something that Halfnelson is unable to grasp apprarently, given his wont to calling people 'mediocre' when without the credits and equipment from a prior character (or the connections you might make with that character) he'd be just as mediocre as a new player if he started over. Wouldn't matter if OE was there or not. He'd never have access to the credits nor equipment necessary to overequip.

[_____________Kasimir]

No, we can't :P

Kidding..I think I've been coming off as high and mighty, not my intent. I was trying to cut back the whining and I think I created more then I stopped..anyway...

/bow

[p00finger]

Originally posted by Kuroshio
This is something that Halfnelson is unable to grasp apprarently, given his wont to calling people 'mediocre' when without the credits and equipment from a prior character (or the connections you might make with that character) he'd be just as mediocre as a new player if he started over. Wouldn't matter if OE was there or not. He'd never have access to the credits nor equipment necessary to overequip.

You called yourself a mediocre player, bud.

Once again you're wrong. Just take the hit. You are wrong...now get over it and go roleplay. Marry an Atrox or something, I don't know.

You know...I had an extensive post in response to you taking a jab at me for something you said about yourself. But, this is not a debate at all. You have no case. Your logic is flawed and the mere fact that people like you want to force your style of play on others is childish and insulting.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Halfnelson


You called yourself a mediocre player, bud.

Once again you're wrong. Just take the hit. You are wrong...now get over it and go roleplay. Marry an Atrox or something, I don't know.

You know...I had an extensive post in response to you taking a jab at me for something you said about yourself. But, this is not a debate at all. You have no case. Your logic is flawed and the mere fact that people like you want to force your style of play on others is childish and insulting.

Grow up Halfnelson. Overequipping has nothing to do with the quality of the player because, in the end, it can't be done to any great extent without twinking.

The highest QL items obtainable by a character on his own means doing 100% difficulty missions. Or teaming to do 100% difficulty team missions. That's the extent you can overequip without twinking.

What's childish is attempting to call people 'mediocre' when in reality, you might be a worse player than them without a twinked character.

[p00finger]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

What's childish is attempting to call people 'mediocre' when in reality, you might be a worse player than them without a twinked character.

Do you not know how to read? How many times do I have to say it? Huh? I never called you mediocre. You did that yourself.

I get the feeling I'm yapping at either a 16 year old or a Funcom employee.

This is getting really boring...so I nominate we just drop the subject.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Halfnelson


Do you not know how to read? How many times do I have to say it? Huh? I never called you mediocre. You did that yourself.

I get the feeling I'm yapping at either a 16 year old or a Funcom employee.

This is getting really boring...so I nominate we just drop the subject.

Erm, you translated "Average" into "Mediocre". I'd never call myself a mediocre player. Oh, and don't bother looking up my name on the People of Rubi-Ka page. Someone took my name on day 1 of release and has never let it go

[p00finger]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


Erm, you translated "Average" into "Mediocre". I'd never call myself a mediocre player. Oh, and don't bother looking up my name on the People of Rubi-Ka page. Someone took my name on day 1 of release and has never let it go

Hahahaha! I'm just kidding. Look man, after my last post I realized my comment is not helping this "situation". With that in mind, I'm off this thread. I do respect your play style and in no way think my way is any better. Just different. I see your points, I just do not agree.

On that note...good luck in 4.2 land. I hope we survive!

[______Soldats/Chloei]

"In my opinion, there should be a way in every game to make it easier the second, third, etc, time around. Otherwise folks will just leave... period.

If you do not believe that, look at DAOC, it is the perfect example of how players react when a company forces them into mediocrity. DAOC does not allow OEing, players level up one character, they try to twink a second character after they get bored, but find that leveling a second character is just as hard and boring as the first one, so instead they leave the game entirely. DAOC has the customer retention of a single player game, play it once, shelf it and move on. I don't think a larger exodus of players after reaching mid-high levels has ever happened in MMORPG before.

So while you may think it is "fair" that everyone be forced into the same level of mediocrity, most people whether they know it or not or will admit it or not do not agree, they will leave the game rather than stick around to play another character or have a easy alt to fall back on when the main gets frustrating. Also without over equiping, the game company removes the occassional feeling even the noob got as he managed to wiggle into a new higher level gun or armor that dropped, thus giving him a feeling of extra power and satisfaction for a while. He can now kill easier, live longer and gets excited about the game all over again because he broke his dying streak or got a level faster than the last time.

Anyways, it has already been proven by another game company that by removing over equiping you will destroy the longevity and fun of the game. Personally I can not believe Funcom is going to follow suit and do it as well after watching what Mythic did to themselves. I think they would have been a bit smarter to follow Verants path and allow massive over equiping, since they have the largest, longest lasting, most dedicated playerbase in one of these types of games ever. Why take the path what will become known as the biggest MMORPG flop has taken instead?"


*bump*

*Oops* I must have misread Communism Online as "Anarchy" Online, my bad, time to leave this ****ty game.

[______Soldats/Chloei]

"I hate seeing level 12 twinks going out to the arena so they can 0wn gullible noobs. There's no good reason for it and it wrecks the game for the new players. "


If a noob decides to pvp, it's his own fault for dying..... Come on, how much sense could you have in going to the arena at lvl 12 with ql 5 armor and a ql 10 weapon and hoping to kill a lvl 150's super twink with ql 90 implants, 50 armor, and 90 gun? sheesh! For me, the only perk of being a high lvl and in a natorious PVP guild is so that I can make a char I can really be proud of, and FC ruined it halfway by eliminating implant stepping. =( poor Soldats

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


Look at it this way. You're saying what's here, OE included isn't enough to keep the playerbase playing. So how will making the game (or allowing it to remain) unfriendly towards new players make it last any longer? Or is the only thing you care about it making it last longer for you?

Kuroshiro, there's something you are having problems grasping. It's a real simple principle in any community environment.

Keep those loyal to you happy.

For an example of what that means... If you were a king in some kingdom, you do not starve your veteran soldiers to give food to new blood. That's pure stupidity.

My only point is that there is not much left once OE'ing is gone for alot of people. No story, no content, no dialogue, no sparkling interest besides some flashy lights... what is there? The only thing keeping me interested is trying out some other classes and some other weapons I didn't experience on my main character.

It's been 1 year since release. An absolutely horrid release. One of my friends worked at EB. He said they sold out of copies within 2 hours, and 50% of them were returned the same day. Another 40% the next day. You think EB or any other software store is going to be anxious to give up floor space for that crap?

Why is anyone going to purchase a one year old game in a new box? Especially when it's still buggy, still lacking story, still lacking dialogue, still lacking content, still relying on flashy lights to draw some people in.

The ONLY time I would buy a MMORPG is if the existing playerbase was quite happy and having the time of their lives, and I'm feeling like I'm missing out on it. But hell, if players are dropping like flies, why would I waste my money on that?

You need to be loyal to your existing playerbase first. If you got 25,000 really happy people, for a long time, more people will join.

It's not really an OE issue as much as it is a 'your removing one of the very few aspects of the game left that are fun' issue. They are going to remove one aspect, and replace it with nothing. I've been waiting 1 year for something. Am I ever going to get it?

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni


Kuroshiro, there's something you are having problems grasping. It's a real simple principle in any community environment.

Keep those loyal to you happy.

...

I have no problem grasping that at all. The problem is you're not accepting the fact that FC can't cater to the current playerbase exclusively. The OE changes being implemented are a compromise of what could have been obviously because they left some overequipping completely untouched and still left a margin for overequipping on other things.

I do remember the original announcement of the plan they were considering implementing to do with overequipping. Everything that was overequipped was going to deequip itself. Brought a hilarious image to mind of people's heads exploding when their implants popped out

[Yesiamstoned]

Originally posted by Kasimir



See this is where we differ...and I'm not saying per se that you or anyone else is an ebsay or a cheater. You say you only get the full experience by exploiting the system to make yourself as powerful as possible, making you superior to others the same level. I say you get the full experience by playing through the hard way.

My point by the way, is not so much that people going the easy way are doing a bad thing, so much as I'm tired of hearing them say the game is unplayable or too hard. Maybe for them, but the rest of us do just fine.

Firstly using what has been provided is not an exploit, it set this game apart for others.

Secondly I do agree with you that playing through the hard way once or twice does help give you the full experience of the game. Creating a twink and playing the game differntly the next time around helps as well. The game is currently played on 2 levels by 2 differnt groups of people. The newbie plays through the game the first way and when he/she gets bored and/or the details of the game , begins to play the second way. It is part of the game progression if you choose to participate. I deleted a number of chars while learning this game , yes i did have fun with them but they were just too gimped. Then after I got on a roll with one or two chars I was able to learn how to use the in game mechanics to make my char even better. I did this without using bugs or exploits. Finally with enough knowledge and rescources I can twink out a lowlev and go have fun, its not the only way that someone can enjoy the game, but eliminating it takes away that ascpect.

Yesiamstoned 141 nt RK2
Peace $ Love,Inc.

P.S. the only thing that make this game near unplayable are all the bugs, synch errors, and massive lag that I have encounterd since 13.8 and worse since the third server opend up. Almost barfed when i lost 4mill xp due to 10 phantoms hits that occured instantly as a teammate was in the process of looting the mob.

[_____________Kasimir]

You're not the type of twinker I'm talking about, really yes. the kind I'm talking about enver tried, cause it's "too hard to bother" and uses every shortcut, which I feel robs them of the challenge...but most of that type seem to care less about challenge, just being leet. I've done the same thing you have, to some extent, and there's nothing really wrong with that..


As for unplayability..I had the mission from hell the other night...anyone that was in that one with Kas in 20k knows what I'm talking about..lost a quarter of a damn level from stupid bugs (and being dumb and not refreshing nanos, when I needed an RD I was empty)