Athens Restoration Project

[Naefen]

Originally posted by joshuacrime


However, I'm willing to bet that these things you are speaking of are merely incidents of stay behind agents provacateur and espionage being executed as spies and not soldiers and civilians. Your propaganda machines were at work here, I am betting, and usually this kind of deed is a propaganda coup for the side it is perpetuated against.

Or maybe that time the clanners did a bad thing? Its a nice cover-reflex to have that everytime some dirty laundry appears you can blame it on Omni Tek. I see it happen more and more. It could mean, in my opinion, that you are unable to recognise criticism for your failed actions.
Yet I understand the difficulty you would have with doing just so since theres simply to many clans. I for one have a hard time finding someone to blame within the clans when something not so good happens. I mean,how can I point my finger at you all when you dont agree amongst yourself over one single issue. Diversity is both your blessing and your curse.
Blaming Omni Tek is much easier since we are one strong entity. And as such you know all to well witch way to point when uglyness appears.

[Xhairs]

Originally posted by joshuacrime
Neither of us personally started this war...
...so in retrospect, I am not saying that you personally are evil, nor anyone else by mere association of an evil organization. I know there are good Omni-Tek people and evil dishonorable Clanners.

Exactly, no person alive today is responcible for the extreme atrocitys that was perpetuated on the first settlers. That was the mistake and the crime of the first administration, trying strong-arm tactics and then trying to cover it up with even more violence. Are any of those that did such a thing still in power today? Not personaly, but some people would see us return there if they had the chance, while some are struggling to sit down and talk this out. Unfortunatly, while a person may be smart, people are stupid and easy to herd. All it takes are a few radicals (what ever side they come from) and all talks go down the drain in the public outrage.

However, be that as it may, Clan did not create a juggernaut corporation that plunders whole galaxies, creates slave races to do the work that Homo Omniwankus couldn't see fit to do themselves, and then push them into conditions so horrid and dangerous that they had no choice but to rebel. Clan is a reactionary political organization that knew that they had to organize or be crushed individually for daring to place human rights against the profit potential. Die on your feet or die on your knees.

Also, Clan did not create the huge Corporation that houses, feeds and employs billions of individuals. The Corp that builds schools, universitys and hospitals. The Corp that educates brilliant scientists that create new cures for deadly illneses, created the resurection technology here on Rubi-Ka, that design starships that has let mankind spread acrosss the galaxy, that let us, ALL of us, come here to Rubi-Ka.

Not to mention the mutants. Create mutated THINGS that should not be in your labaratories because you were just being "enlightened" scientists and then just leave them out into the world? We are happy that the Mutants took a big chunk out of the territory to the south in Rubi-Ka. Too bad they probably just want to kill all of us.

Yeah, all those mutants. I have stated so before, and i´ll do it again. In one breath you say Omni-Tek is greedy, the next you say Omni-Tek is letting hundreds of millions of Credits worth of genetic R&D just walk out of the labs. Mhm, makes much sense. Most of those mutants were "freed" when some Clan yahoos decided that hitting an Omni research outpost and letting all things there loose was a grand idea. Some escaped on their own, and some might even have be released, but don´t throw rocks when you are sitting in g a glass building.

The Cyborg Menace? Those hideous beasts we call the Notum Soldier, the Diamondine Soldier and the Fire Soldier? No longer human anymore, are they? What exactly are they (besides nice repositories for our brave Clan soldiers to upgrade their arsenals with)? I bet they don't even know anymore.

Cyborgs? Hah, like the Clans ever actualy tried to do anything about them. No, it´s much easier trying to deny they excist. Like they won´t kill us all one of these days if they get the chance.

And who ever claimed the Omni-Elites out in Easter Foul Plains are not human?

Do we also forget your siding with the Unredeemed in the Shadowlands? The Corporation saw in them a like-minded ally, a group so power hungry, amoral and callous that you barely had to shift agendas to fit them into your grand picture of domination and subjugation. Now I don't know about you, but reading old mythology about "angels and devils" kind of shows me that you Omni's are on the side of the Devil. And you don't make deals with the Devil and then say you were only kidding. No one believes that, too many others have tried before you.

And what makes you say the UnRedeemed are oh so evil? I´ll admit to them not being the most socialy adept of all beings, but what makes you think the UnRedeemed and the Redeemed are "Oh so Evil" and "Oh so Good"? Go barking after what ever it is that is controling the Brink monsters instead, there you have something far more sinister to worry about.

In the end, it's all about actions. My historical comparison was just that. It does not fit perfectly with our current political situation but there are parallels, and my comparison was to show how one cornered entity can survive against formidable odds and come out successful in the end (as Israel clearly had back on old Earth days). The cost is rarely ever worth it, but who started the unrest on Rubi-Ka in the first place? Certainly not the Clanners, it didn't exist when the seeds of this conflict began.

You say that as if you actualy belive that Israel woul have held out as long as they did if they had not had *gasp* one of the mightiest lands on the planet at that time as a close allie, the "good ol´" US of A. In the case of the Clans, it was ICC and the PR nightmare that the civil war had become.

No, it is the big black beast known as Omni-Tek. The corporation that swallows worlds, plunders riches and destroys lives as easily as writing down a monthly budget. And without caring a cuss for anyone that might be in the way of your domination of everything. Trample all in the name of the bottom line, the profit margin the determining factor of who lives and who dies unless they are wearing that shiny corporate badge that shows all that you too are joined with the rampaging beast.

*Sigh* Once more then. You should be thankfull for that bottom line, because that is what has held Omni-Prime from throwing everything they have at you in the beginning. Even now the bottom line protects you because Omni-Prime has to keep some of the more extreme Omni people on a short leash, lest people of the galaxy start avoiding OT merchandises and cut the projected profit. Ultimate Greed or Ultimate Evil, make up your mind, you can not have both.

If you cannot see how evil this is, then you, my worthy adversary, are already lost.

If Omni-Tek is evil for wanting to make money, then all Clans that have ever erected a tower or gunned down a monster for Credits or rare items, make that any items, is evil as well.

[quote]Well, if one goes by the Omni-Tek news organizations, I'm sure that Clan is responsible for all of the foul weather, the rampant killing that goes on by the REAL terrorist organizations, and all sorts of other maladies befalling the planet. I am quite certain that a bit of propaganda is at work here.[/quot]

Whilst the Clans never, ever, distort the truth for their own ends. Nope, never happened.

If indeed there was some kind of abuse of prisoners, then all we can say is that it should not have happened at all and those responsible should have been punished by US, not by you, since we do not recognize your authority any longer.

Oh they punished him by naming the city after him? Now there is justice for you. Also, i must ammend my statement, Commander Athen was never proven to have had anything to do with the shooting as he was dead when the attack was fully over, but it is how ever a stated fact, even in the Clan history books in the Athen war academy, that OT Personel was driven out, imprisoned or executed on the October 12 29209, so there is no speculation about it. It did happen.

However, I'm willing to bet that these things you are speaking of are merely incidents of stay behind agents provacateur and espionage being executed as spies and not soldiers and civilians. Your propaganda machines were at work here, I am betting, and usually this kind of deed is a propaganda coup for the side it is perpetuated against.

Oh, oh! Ok, so that makes every wrongdoing OT has ever done against the Clans a moot point too, now doesn´t it? Those were just propaganda too. Get of it, come to terms with the fact that the Clans, "noble" as they are, have done wrong. The Clans makes mistakes and/or bad things. I should know, i have scars from an incident that will never heal, and i was one of the lucky ones.

Once again, I shall refer to a very memorable historical event to see how propaganda shapes our thinking about events that have little to do with the truth.

If one looks back through the old reels of news on old Earth, one might see a particularly brutal scene of bedlam and chaos in a place called Ho Chi Mihn City, Vietnam (formerly Saigon). In this reel, one can see the national police director Nguyen Ngoc Loan take out a pistol, and in front of a stunned group of Western journalists, fires a single round point blank into a bound prisoners head, leaving him to die on the street with a gushing head wound.

The scene shocked the entire world and was used over and over again by propagandists to show the utter brutality of the Western powers against the North Vietnamese insurgents (Viet Cong). Much was learned from this video shot, just not the truth.

The truth was quite different. The man that was taken prisoner was a "captain" in the Viet Cong and was personally responsible for the deaths of members of a deputy Saigon police commanders family, as well as countless others during the Tet Offensive of 1968. When the deputy commander failed to follow the orders of the chief to execute this prisoner (since he was not in uniform, he is considered to be a spy and can be summarily executed according to the Geneva Convention), he did so himself. This was to insure that when he gave orders, they were to be carried out, and that there was no order that he would give to his subordinates that he would not do himself.

This kind of summary execution is not unknown for people caught performing acts of espionage during time of war. Why? Information costs the lives of your countrymen, and to insure that what information a spy has does not get back to his masters, the spy is killed. History is replete with examples of this, all quite "barbaric" in times of peace. During war time, it is a necessity.

Ok, now this little leap of logic is just beautifull. So, let´s see if i got this right. The Clans attack Omni-2, takes it fairly easily (with the help of a few sub-tactical nukes i have read) and then round up all the people and drives them out of the city besides these few unlucky people that they instinctivly know are spys, so they shoot them instead. The siege of Omni-2 was over in a matter of days, there was no time for spy activity or anything but combat. And what about the POW´s? They were in uniform? They had surendered their weapons and given up fighting? Oh, but they were hiding bombs in their shoes to blow up their prisson cells? Oh my. Come off it, even the Clan history books mention too many executed for all of them to have been spies.


Has the Clans been wrongfully treated by Omni-Tek? Yes.

Was it right for them to rise up against Omni-Tek? As it was way back then, it was only a matter of time before it happened, and if things were today like it was back then i would be amongs those standing on the barricades with a gun against them, but Omni-Tek has changed, and the Clans have not realised it.

Sure, Omni-Tek plays hardball, but we no longer misstreat workers on a regularr basis, because Omni-Tek know that if pressed to far a person will snap and now, thanks to the ICC, has the right to go over to the Clan side. This means better treatement, better wages, better work conditions. The great irony is that of all people, the ones that realy are tasting the fruit of the Clan struggle is the average Omni-Tek employe that want nothing more than work his o her shift and go home to a warm appartment, eat their fill and watch Zero-Friction Hockey on the Tri-Deo.

[joshuacrime]

Thank you for going point to point and cleaving out what you want and seperating out bits and pieces to be torn apart as they are taken out of context. The "logic" I employ is one of a lifelong Clan fighter throughout the aftermath of what has happened in the past. I was not there, so I cannot change what has been done. Much ugliness occurs in wartime, Omni knows a thing or two about it.

However, I'm going to use a very current example of how Clan deals with things as opposed to how Omni deals with things.

If you would be so kind as to check out the IRRK news segment about the crash site in Mort, I think you would see just how your "kinder and gentler" Omni-Tek handles matters as opposed to how Clan does.

See, the expedition that went out to investigate the landing of some unidentifiable craft in Mort was headed out by Clan. Clanners were recruited right from Old Athen to go out and deal with whatever might be there. I happened to be selected for the first team recruited, and as we moved through the Whompas into Neutral territory, in Pied Piper fashion other neutral fighters and some inquisitive Omni fighters came along (they were NOT invited, this was a Clan investigation into something that happened in a CLAN territory, but we let them come along anyway) and was there up until the "whatever they were" sent me packing to reclaim as they had everyone else that snooped around the craft too long.

Once a certain number of the recon team had been killed by the unknown group, we were assaulted by Omni drop ships, and although they were all destroyed by the combined efforts of Clan, Neutral and yes, even Omni fighters alike (thank you all), the drop ship troops attacked CLAN while we were investigating something that no one knew about (the Borg Hunters had no intelligence for us as they had been sent packing before this more well armed group was recruited) and killed a number of our people. In a CLAN territory. Clan was there to investigate the possible danger to us ALL, while Omni-Tek corporate military drones swept in like a horde of locusts and systematically tried to murder all of the Clanners present. The reason why is fairly clear to me. Cover-up is easy when no one is around to tell you what happened.

Your benevolent organization was caught red-handed by all sorts of witnesses trying to bury this incident under the rug by burying US. So don't be telling me about how lovely you all are. I know better, I have seen it with my own eyes, and as recently as yesterday!

No, once Omni publicly apologizes to the Clans, makes reparations to those murdered for your holy credit, and acknowledges the rights of all alive on Rubi-Ka as sacrosanct and completely inviable, then I think we'd be getting somewhere. Somewhere, some fool got a real bright idea to allow corporations this much power, and whoever it was needs to have their ass removed. The people are the sovereign, not the corporation. Get it through your Omni-helmeted heads that Clanners have an abiding love of freedom, justice and honor. Not the bottom-line. What we treasure cannot be bought with a credit or a billion credits. Only through blood, sweat, tears and effort. Sir Winston, we hardly knew you.

[Naefen]

What does this have to do with the athens restoration??

However I will answer the topic of your most recent post Joshuacrime. The Omni`s that appeared were not an attack-force. They were not an ambush-force. Infact they were a retrieval-force sent to retrieve a reconnasance squad employed by Omni Tek. In case you hadnt noticed Clan and Omni are at war and they need no excuse to attack you. I dont find it very hard to understand that expecting to find a squad hurt and in dire need of medical attention and instead finding a huge assembly of clanners the officers present went to the step of direct and heavy assault on your troops. I am convinced you would have done the same.
And incase you question the heavy numbers of OT employees that arrived I must remind you of the "Black Reet Down" incident that proved no number of OT forces is to large these days. That being because we are also attacked by sight by your fellow clanners.

I am aware that I also have helped bringing this discussion out of topic and apologise to those that would want to talk about the filthy clan controlled city of Athen.

[joshuacrime]

Poppycock and other British-like denouncements.

We were on the scene, I was one of the first to walk into the crater and see what was going on. There was no squad. There were a lot of dead bodies, looked like Omni's to me, but there was nothing to retrieve.

No, what happened was Omni sent in a token force to deal with this "craft" thing, underestimated what was required, had their black-armored butts handed to them in record time, and then found out that a bunch of Clanners were organizing a party to investigate. We had already been there for nearly 15 minutes dealing with the situation (nothing to deal with, by the way, just people getting zapped out of thin air) when the dropships arrived. You were not there, so you do not know what occured. I do. I was there in the thick of it.

And what does this have to do with the Athen Restoral Project? Everything. Yet another fine example of your "filthy clanners" doing something worthwhile for the planet while you all send in mobs of troops to cover up your own bumbling and to insure that any technology retrieved from the site (there weren't any unless you all did it first, but I have no idea since there was nothing left) went directly into the Omni-Tek labs. Don't we have a bit of a cease-fire going on here at the moment?

War? Oh, we can give you THAT. I'm pretty sure that we want to build up Old Athen and give it a nice lustrous sheen from it's war-battered look that is has had since it was taken. And why not? We defeated you, and we earned it. Give it up. Omni-2 indeed. Not anymore. Old Athen. Say it with me...Old Athen. There. That's all you have to do.

What all of this supposedly "out of topic" conversation is is nothing of the kind. It's to point out that:

1. Clan is a viable political organization. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit in with your "corporate vision", but so what? People are more complex than a table of organizations. Deal with it.

2. Clan contributes to the well-being of the safety and security of our part of Rubi-Ka just as much and if not better than Omni-Tek does. We have patrols, we guard our cities. I'm sorry if we don't have the financial resources to do things on such a grandiose scale as you. Again, deal with it. Maybe if you had not been such schmucks when dealing with the PEOPLE (not labor assets) we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

3. Clan has a deep abiding respect for law (not your Corporate Code or whatever it is you manipulate to bring things into your own favor), honor and justice. The right way. For the people. Not for the Corporation. Our visions here don't mesh, and it will take a paradigm shift to make the Corporation see it. The Corporation is a financial institution, and that is all it was supposed to be. Instead, it is a ruthless monolopy on Rubi-Ka, and instead of allowing the people to rule themselves, you foist upon us conditions that would make even a mutant wince, and you wonder why there even IS an Old Athen? Well, I'm sure you can read too. The history is all there. Only we aren't the ones that made THIS all happen. Omni-Tek did. Deal with it.

OK, enough for this. Once the funds are allocated and we can bring in what we need, Old Athen will be restored...no...built anew in the vision of the Clans. Omni-2 is dead, like the do-do, the aurok and many other species throughout time. Gone. Fine. Bye bye. Last post for me. We'll see you at the ribbon cutting ceremony for NEW ATHEN!

[Naefen]

As before I bid you good luck on the restoration of Old Athen. And thats about where we stop agreeing

[Pysgod1978]

Well, that was interesting. Ok, i went to the crash site myself. I kinda got there late. I was sittting near Hope going around the perimeter while people where getting plastered. By the time i found out where the crash site was and the direction to head out on. The whatever it was had stopped. Anyways, what Omni sent was an assault force. Granted they should'nt have came in shooting. But, whatever was killing everybody with claws and crap was obviously a bit too big for anybody to handle. Should have backed off and let the Omni troops handle it. They had gear sounds like. Let them assume the risk of death. Not the Clans.
And yes, Commander Athen was already dead by the time the shooting happened. At least thats what the records state. It happened a long time ago. Let the dead rest in peace. Last thing we need is spirits running around on the planet too.