213 Slayer VS 200 Slayer

[Dalmatia]

Would be nice if they just increased the effects of trimmers by a factor of 10... then we could decide the bot's characteristics and they could just give us a default bot template that they could scale up with lvl... I really don't want our bot selection to be like choosing golf clubs :/.

[Logain]

i've been thinking hard about the hp nerf to bots and the increase in ac

if assuming that because of the ac nerf bots are hit less, wouldn't it be better? as you can heal it faster

my 2 cents

[Maimgara]

In theory, it could be balanced - but it isn't. Far too few hp to withstand anything in Shadowlands slapping it for 1-2k

And healing is not really an option, the aggro capabilities is too weak - chain-healing is a good way to get unshakable aggro from the pet

[Highorbit]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Please keep it coming

[mrbob]

Originally posted by ADDIS
Give engies some nanoskill perks and remove tradeskill perks. Give the tradeskill perks to the traders. Maybe even a perk spec that add nanoskills for a few sec.

i got a better idea, give us the divest and plunder nanos then you can have our tradeskill perks

anyway....

yes i do agree it woulda be nice to see these SL pets put right, not just our engie pets but the higher demon as well, i watched an mp friend use uroluck to kill a 210 heckler which he did quite easily then he used zhal on another 210 heckler zhal was close to death....

an aggro fix would also be very welcomed, aggro flicker on mobs is currently a mess we dont have to do anything at all and we draw aggro, hows that possible with 2 pets attacking with you sat way back not attacking at all and occasionally healing?

what i would like to see happen with our pets is the hp of the higher slayer to be marginally higher than the old slayer the 205 to have maybe 5-10k more hp than that? then somethin like a 5k inc hp per bot after that

the small hp increases over the old slayer would be better, i see the reason why fc doesnt want to give them loads of hp (think widowmaker dmg and marauder dmg if they have masses of hp you could possibly solo diamondine trainee or somethin) but a slight increase over the old 200 slayer would be good and not bring about any imblance in which you see engies running around and soloing just about every unique or making engie teams and using the bots to tank mercs.

me hopes for a fix sometime soon

[Supersoly]

Just curious guys....


why are you so worried about the solo balance? SL is *TEAM* based...too a very very large extent. If your in a good team, hell not even a good team, just a team that knows their roles, you should not have a problem with aggro. An enf should be able too keep aggro from your pets. And if he can't with just chain mongo...then FC needs too fix our taunt perks . But seriously...you have too pick and choose what bot is right for what situation. If you had the bots scale upwarps in HP from the 200 slayer...you'd have a problem. That problem being: Your pet(s) are better tanks than enfs, and better damage dealers than most other classes.


I'm not saying nerf you guys. I'm saying, your a tradeskiller. You have too accpet that. Your combat capabilities should not EQUAL those of any non-tradeskilling class. Should they be way below them? no. You should be a support class: My bots can do *massive* damage when coupled with a tanking enforcer, my AC debuffs & a trader's AC debuffs.


I don't really see what the problem is. I'll admit the bots weren't what I expected either but give it a little time before u complain hardcore.

[DiddiDave934]

Originally posted by Supersoly
why are you so worried about the solo balance? SL is *TEAM* based...too a very very large extent. If your in a good team, hell not even a good team, just a team that knows their roles, you should not have a problem with aggro. An enf should be able too keep aggro from your pets. And if he can't with just chain mongo...then FC needs too fix our taunt perks . But seriously...you have too pick and choose what bot is right for what situation. If you had the bots scale upwarps in HP from the 200 slayer...you'd have a problem. That problem being: Your pet(s) are better tanks than enfs, and better damage dealers than most other classes.

Ok, next time I'm with a crat friend hunting patterns that an Enf wouldn't be interested in I'll just pull a tank out of my pocket...

Given higher HP our pets would tank better than Enfs you say? Well, considering docs can't heal slayer...I don't see that ever happening, do you?

Yea lets pick a pet which fits the situation...hmm, a tanking situation? Say I want to tank a 220 mob in Inferno, Oh, I'll pick out the pet with the highest HP to tank (ql200 Slayer which I could cast at level 150) wait a sec, it can't keep aggro...oh, I'll just use my higher dmg pet to tank it, oh, that can't keep aggro too and dies in 3 seconds...useful.

Originally posted by Supersoly
I'm not saying nerf you guys. I'm saying, your a tradeskiller. You have too accpet that. Your combat capabilities should not EQUAL those of any non-tradeskilling class. Should they be way below them? no. You should be a support class: My bots can do *massive* damage when coupled with a tanking enforcer, my AC debuffs & a trader's AC debuffs.

Urm, everyone in the game can be a tradeskiller, you can raise tradeskills all you like, you would be worse off for it (as an Engy definatly is after 200) but you could be one. I don't use tradeskills, don't want to use them, never have wanted to use them. So the fact that I don't use them and I'm not a cookie clutter char means I should be a bad in combat? I should max my tradeskills (tho currently at 0 IP) so I can actually be useful eh...

Originally posted by Supersoly
I don't really see what the problem is. I'll admit the bots weren't what I expected either but give it a little time before u complain hardcore.

Played an Engy? No? Kthxbye.

[Namel]

Originally posted by Supersoly
J

Your combat capabilities should not EQUAL those of any non-tradeskilling class.

How exactly we are supposed to get in teams if we are not equal to other classes in fighting? As far as I know leveling with tradeskills is not possible.

[patrick187]

Ahh...the "EverQuesting" of AO continues, right down to the primary pet class having "situational pets" with HP/AC/offense differences. Alas, in EQ, spells are merely level dependent, so they can self-cast a pet if they meet their level requirement. I draw this parallel because the level 51+ pets in EQ, for both magicians and necromancers, worked exactly like this. The 52 pets for both classes sucked compared to their 49 counterparts. And just like then, players from other professions in AO are now giving the following sage-like feedback:

"This isn't a solo game!!"
"So what if your pets are borked, you can tradeskill!!"
"Now you finally suck like everyone else!!"
"You still don't suck as bad as **insert profession name here** does!!"

It's like getting to know an old friend all over again.

Anarchy Online: The Shadowlands of Kunark.

[Supersoly]

Originally posted by Raidea
Urm, everyone in the game can be a tradeskiller, you can raise tradeskills all you like, you would be worse off for it (as an Engy definatly is after 200) but you could be one. I don't use tradeskills, don't want to use them, never have wanted to use them. So the fact that I don't use them and I'm not a cookie clutter char means I should be a bad in combat? I should max my tradeskills (tho currently at 0 IP) so I can actually be useful eh...

Everyone in this game can be a tank. Whats your point?
Everyone in this game can be a tradeskiller. Whats your point?
Everyone in this game can be anything they want to be. The only difference is that some classes are supposed to do things better than other classes.


What I'm saying is whats stopping a 220 engie with the top bot from edging in on an enforcers territory of tanking if it had like 200k HP. Sure it wouldn't live forever. But if u've ever tanked something in SL with a mezz pet healing is almost not needed.



If i didn't want to be a cookie cutter character I could raise some random weapon skill and be bad at combat with it. So I don't understand your cookie cutter comment.



Yes, I've never played an engie. Boo Hoo. Opinions formed based on ideas from only one sector of the game result in imbalances. I may be wrong on my ideas, but at least I'm trying to be helpful. I'm not flaming, nor trolling, please don't treat me as one.

[Rustybolts]

How much do you want us in a team if our combat capabilities are not at least comparable to those of another prof?

We can't level through tradeskills and thus our damage must be at least comparable to other professions or we will be unwanted on teams to get those dings.

[Supersoly]

Originally posted by Rusty
How much do you want us in a team if our combat capabilities are not at least comparable to those of another prof?

We can't level through tradeskills and thus our damage must be at least comparable to other professions or we will be unwanted on teams to get those dings.

I enjoy teaming with the engies in my guild. He out-damages me...just don't use dual XP-leech pistols and you do plenty of damage...I must admit dual XP pistol engies piss me off.....

[Zane0]

Tradeskills shouldn't equate to lessened combat potential. They're as much a burden as they are helpful.

.. More of a burden in some cases.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Highorbit
Thanks for all the feedback guys. Please keep it coming

Question:
Has anyone experimented with the other trimmer settings?

I mean from the way things sound, it could be that FC is trying something wierd. Like having the bots mimic a profession like the shade. High damage output in a squishy body. So evading hits become more important.

Perhaps trading some of what seems sorta agreed upon greater offense for defense?

[Zane0]

This is our Best evades trimmer. Considering that this trimmer is bugged and doesn't buff Duck Exp, and considering that Hecklers hit using Duck Exp, evasion isn't going to happen!

However, I suppose that one could use a Trimmer - Negative Aggressive-Defensive. I doubt that this will help with our bot's ability to take aggro and tank though. It would perhaps live a little longer, but that wouldn't matter if it was trimmed into lethargy enough so that it wouldn't take aggro anyways.

This would be good to test though.

[DiddiDave934]

Originally posted by Supersoly

What I'm saying is whats stopping a 220 engie with the top bot from edging in on an enforcers territory of tanking if it had like 200k HP. Sure it wouldn't live forever. But if u've ever tanked something in SL with a mezz pet healing is almost not needed.

I never saw anyone in this thread ask for a rediculous amout of HP on the SL pets, the fact is that the 213 pet is worse than the 200 pet, the title of this thread proves that!

All I wanted was the HP back to that of the 200 Slayer (why should it get lower as it get more 'powerful'?!) and hitting for 1300 each hit you would expect the bot to keep aggro, it doesn't!

As for bots being useful in different situations there is no bot useful for tanking, all there are is a line of higher ql, harder to cast bots which have been hit with ql500 divert energy to offence trimmer! (-15k hp, +400dmg) This is not advancement

[DiddiDave934]

Originally posted by Supersoly
If i didn't want to be a cookie cutter character I could raise some random weapon skill and be bad at combat with it. So I don't understand your cookie cutter comment.

I was referring to my char not jumping on the tradeskill band wagon, not the whole 2HE EQB Enf thing, even though the effect on the high level Enf game can still be seen now (clueless players cookie clutter raised)...

Sorry, off topic, annoyances have been getting the better of me the last few days...

[Supersoly]

Originally posted by Raidea


I was referring to my char not jumping on the tradeskill band wagon, not the whole 2HE EQB Enf thing, even though the effect on the high level Enf game can still be seen now (clueless players cookie clutter raised)...

Sorry, off topic, annoyances have been getting the better of me the last few days...

hehe its cool dude

If I had enough time, I have to admit, I'd like to play an engie, just todo some tradeskills. Its a whole nother part too the game, that enforcers can't really experience. Besides having a pet is cool :-D.



I'm all for the bot getting HP raised up to the 200 slayer level..it does seem dumb to not have enough HP for u to be able to keep it alive via heals. But I'm against the bot(s) scaling in HP past the 200 slayer, because then you could potentially have a huge im-balance. From a non-engie point of view. I'd think that what would make sense is too have the Damage, AC, HP regen increase past the lvl 200 slayer, but keep the HP the same. I haven't seen the new bots but I'm asuming they aren't too much larger physically than the 200 slayer. And it would seem that (from a somewhat RP perspective *gasp*) that bot HP is dependent on its size. So in essence your learning how to build a better bot: better ac/damage/hp regen, but keeping it the same size. That'd seem cool too me .

I'm really curious too see how the top bot performs. It should kick a significant amount of ass, and I hope it does. 220 is no small feat, and all characters that get up there really should be nearly supremely powerful.

[Rustybolts]

Hehe, see, even the Trox Enfie agrees that our bots should ahve the same HP as the 200 slayer! (which is incidently what most of us are asking for although some are requesting more)

All most of us would like is 2 things.

1. Bot has same HP as 200 slayer.

2. Bot can hold agro and do slightly more damage than the 200 slayer.


While the 213 slayer is capable of doing a fair amount more damage than the 200 one, the 201 certainly does not on any mob that it will be used on. The 205 can do more damage than the 200 as long as the mob has been deconstructed. Above that we do finally see a real power increase against 210 hecklers, where most of us do most of our leveling.

[lolbbq]

erm the 220 pet shouldnt have more hp then the 200?

200 43721
198 35869
196 28018

well i dont think the hp boosts of every pet should be like that the 220 pet should have at least 50k hp if for no other reson then the fact that we can not use reflect on them in SL

so more hp, yes, a lot more? no