Pandemonium Backstory?

[Octo]

Hmm, I think the regular redeemed are pretty evil too! Hey.. they try to gank me every time I come near them! What ever happened to "turning the other cheek"?

[planta]

This goes to prove what we all though when we started playing; that omni is teh ev0l and clans are the good.

And this proofs it!

[Engelen]

Originally posted by Elnertz
This goes to prove what we all though when we started playing; that omni is teh ev0l and clans are the good.

And this proofs it!

Not quite right. Its not that simple. First of all, while the gameplay makes it easier for Clans to become Redeemed and Omni to become Unredeemed, this isnt set in stone, and so they can both switch sides with enough work, and who`s to say who`s what then? An Unredeemed Clanner, would he be good or evil? Most likely dark in heart and soul, and at last Evil and corrupted, but not of his own thoughts, but of the manipulation and corruption in Shadowlands...A victim of the circumstances maybe...We should not really discuss Omni VS Clans, because that discussion is not the topic here hehe.

Secondly, do you know what the real intentions of the Redeemed are? They claim they are to cleanse the lands, to preserve the Shadowlands. But what then, do you think the Clans and the Redeemed would live in peace forever, without exploiting the massive resources and powers of the Shadowlands? Human Nature. The clans have over and over shown their own bloodthirst, greed and powerhunger, and I`ll bet, that if they manage to clean the place of the Shadowlands, they`ll opt to control it with an Iron Hand, even if it would mean, ultimately, slavery and industrialization, and finally another cataclysm of the land of Shadows.

I dont mean to drag up an old discussion about Omni or Clans, but I`m only trying to explain that with powers come great responsibility, and neither Omni, Clans, Redeemed or Unredeemed are capable of handling that power. It should be left untouched, as it already has lead to the apocalyptic places Inferno and Pandemonium.

[Octo]

Well said Engelen!

[Lumin]

Originally posted by Engelen
Still, what they wont realize before its too late, is that once they get to close to the source, they will become corrupted by its power, just like anyone else.

In the middle of it all, sits the beast, a symbol of evil, power and corruption. A manifest of all thats evil. Greed. Power. Lust. Everything. Shadowlands is like the Pandora`s box that should never have been opened.

And can we then drag another good book series into this game then ? anyone allready mentioned Lord of the Rings

translate that to the one ring to rule them all.. and sauron who lust to rule them all.. and whatever...

the funny thing is that if you give people a small finger they will make up a whole body to set it in place and to better "understand"
people in general are exceptionally good at finding links and patterns that might aswell just be a random coincidence..

[Engelen]

Actually, I`m not referring or even considering comparing it to LOTR, and if you find any similarities, they are accidental, as I dont have the knowledge to discuss it. Big fan though, yes I am

I`m talking about the things we have seen so far in Shadowlands, contra Human Nature, contra history and myths.

Yes, its true that we are always looking for answers for piecing the puzzles together, but thats also our nature, to understand and overcome.

And last, I doubt that they just made Pandemonium for some bosses and fat loot. That place serves a purpose, quite possibly for the creation of all we know in Shadowlands and on Rubi-Ka, and it can ultimately mean its end too......

[________Miniexplicit]

For myself: I don't trust redeemed. If I had the option to be Clan Unredeemed I would be. Frankly, its not an option. The Shadow knowledge question is too vague. To be UNredeemed clan I'd have to be omni, answer the question and change back to clan? or something? Hmm. Don't know. I'll have to try it out on my agent to see if its possible.

Even as Unredeemed Clan (should such a thing be possible) I'd have access to all the Redeemed Gardens and no access to the Unredeemed Gardens. Unredeemed mobs would still aggro me! and Redeemed mobs might aggro me as well.

Anyway.... I don't trust the Redeemed. They say they are all about sweetness and light, but in the very first (possibly second) quest you do for them it should be plain why Redeemed cannot be trusted.

Doing the Aban quest as Redeemed. You tag the 3 Silvertails and 'bless' them. the Sipius tells you "Whatever happened to the creatures to release them from this life, I'm sure the Divine won't blame you for it." WTF. I didn't kill them, why do you assume I did, and why should I need to be forgiven for their deaths if these creatures were 'saved'?

This is the first real visible sign that the Redeemed cannot be trusted, and its not the last. There are all sorts of these rather OOC remarks for the Redeemed. Everything you do for them produces weird comments from the Redeemed. The Redeemed are hiding something, and I don't trust them for it. The Unredeemed are hiding nothing. You know right up front what they are about.

[EDIT] - What did this have to do with Pandemonium? Nothing really, other than I believe the Redeemed are already corrupted. They are just attempting to hide that fact.

[Engelen]

I fully agree with Deleted.

While the Unredeemed are corrupted, twisted and powerhungry versions of their old selves, the Redeemed strive so hard to "Act" like the saving grace, the redemption. But, they fail, their angelic image and false words make me trust the Unredeemed more, as they are more honest in all their gruesome ways.

I do think, that the Unredeemed are victims of the source and the corruption, they are far beyond salvation. The Redeemed, they want the power just as bad as the Unredeemed, and when or if they will get it, they will become as wicked as the Unredeemed.

I`m actually thinking about it, how it starts to remind me of Lord of the Rings. The Power, its so dangerously tempting, nobody can resist it, and everyone has their own reason for controlling it....but once they hold it in their hands, they become a victim of the greater evil, horribly shaped into evil manifestations.

So in other words, neither of the sides are good..The result is what you see in Pandemonium, even the so called "Redeemed" and "Blessed" fall for the corruption.

[Mordeathen]

As a random throwin, Pandemonium was also the capital of Hell, in Milton's Paradise Lost.

[Engelen]

And the Corrupted Redeemed representing its Fallen Angels, who was corrupted by the power and evil, just like Lucifer.

I might take it into a bigger picture than it was originally painted, but it sure makes it ten times as interesting

[Tetra]

Originally posted by Deleted
Doing the Aban quest as Redeemed. You tag the 3 Silvertails and 'bless' them. the Sipius tells you "Whatever happened to the creatures to release them from this life, I'm sure the Divine won't blame you for it." WTF. I didn't kill them, why do you assume I did, and why should I need to be forgiven for their deaths if these creatures were 'saved'?

This is the first real visible sign that the Redeemed cannot be trusted, and its not the last. There are all sorts of these rather OOC remarks for the Redeemed. Everything you do for them produces weird comments from the Redeemed. The Redeemed are hiding something, and I don't trust them for it. The Unredeemed are hiding nothing. You know right up front what they are about.

In the unredeemed thrak version of that quest, you take their souls

[Miq]

mmmm ... Souls ... with kethcup! Can't beat it.

[Engelen]

Just because the Unredeemed is bad.....doesnt mean the Redeemed is good...if you know what I mean hehe...

[Rukus]

Dante is the leader of the Redeemed. Dante is a negitive figure.

Machivaelle is the leader of the Unredeemed. Machivaelle is a negitive figure.

Clans are divided in the good and evil. Terrorism and freedom go hand in hand.

Omni-Tek is not activly evil. Philip has a great dislike for the clans due to backstory but he does not presume evil traits. Omni-Tek personel on Rubi-Ka are not inharitly evil.

The Omega, who secretly control Omni-Tek are human beings with a corrupt sense of right and wrong and due to human nature, are evil.

The Omega are only evil however, in "our", the player eye because of what they did to "our" ancestors.

After all, our Ardents are not generally Omega. They weren't "our" (the Unredeemed) profits, but pawns of BOTH the Unredeemed AND the Redeemed who were trapped OUTSIDE of the dimension and wished to return.

Everyone has had a hand in this.In the end, the Xan have been corrupted, both sides, and are seeking their anchient goals in a twisted way.

[Sin316]

first off : clanner and omni arent "evil". None of them "act" evil as it. Clans may think/say, Omni-tek is evil in a certain sense , as "bad" , but "bad" and "evil" are 2 completly different things.

Same goes for Omni calling Clans evil for certain acts etc. , it aint evil but bad , huge difference.

next , Xens and Humans are quite the same , i guess we agree on that , and as such , cant be evil or good only. Its not because someone acts evil/good would mean he actually is evil/good.
I would even say , in major, humans are neutral , not evil or good only. Also evil/good is a question of point of view. Im not evil because a vegetarien says its evil that im eating animals no ? A Vegetarian isnt good beause he doesnt eat them etc etc.

Look on earth (rl) , the thing that most likely can be called more evil then good (or otherway around) are leader persons , not the people/fellows. Or would you say all Irakians are evil ? All americans are evil ? I dunno about you , but i wouldnt.

Same goes for un-/redeemed. they arent evil/good in the first place , but the goals of their leaders may are , but who are the leaders ? And while doing the unredeemed quests , i dont see much evil there , not more then the redeemeds quest for sure.

About the cursed/blessed Silvertails , in both quests , the silvertail is transformed , isnt that evil anyway , no matter how ?

Ah and dont let you blind by the look of the un-/redeemeds , remember that the unredeemed stayed on the Planet , getting badly transformed in the process , while the redeemeds went away , keeping more or less their original appeareances (so i guess they look more close to what the xens once looked , just more "angelic"-like.


Anyway , my conclusion , none of the sides are evil as it , neither on rk or in the SL.

The evil in SL (and rk and earth) is the Power (call it the source) which corrupts the minds (any).

On earth we call it money and/or Power of Control

[Engelen]

Originally posted by maxtitan
The evil in SL (and rk and earth) is the Power (call it the source) which corrupts the minds (any).

On earth we call it money and/or Power of Control

Just remember, that both sides craves to control that power, and in that process, they become corrupted by it. If both sides would unite to take down the beast and his minions, and maybe isolate Pandemonium forever, maybe then salvation could be at hand, but as long as both sides continue to fight against each other, instead of working together, they have fallen for both the external power of greed, and their own greed.

I can to a certain degree agree that neither of the sides are really evil, but they both want the same thing, they want the opposite side gone, and they want control to shape SL into whatever they please and think is best.

[SilentMobius]

Hmmm I don't agree with the Source=Power and power corrupts asessment of Pandamonium.

Do remember there are 2 routes to power in SL

Novictum gives the power to Kill/Destroy.
Notum gives the power to Create/Sustain.

Used in balance (IMHO) the world would be fine but the Xan wanted to be immortal, which renders them notum heavy. More and more Notum is refined from the source, throwing out the notum/novictum balance thus:

The more immortal Notum creatures you make.
The more Novictum death creatures you get.

And that is (IMHO) what the Pandamonium creatures are... anti-immortals created by the backwash of Novictum that occured due to the excessive refining of notum from the source.

Here are my musing on the subject from before we got into Pandamonium:
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...hreadid=195066

[Engelen]

True, but doesnt all come from the simple point that the Xan exploited the source of its notum then, if not for anything else but for they had the power to do so? And then we are into the point that mankind, or most living beings, are affected by power, no matter what. (Thus, they created their own apocalypse)

[BlockAndLode]

Verse 117: 'When the Xan had set the wounded men to secure the free flow from the source, these men gathered the best warriors among the Xan. They sat the chosen Arthur to lead them. Among the first were Gawain with the Green Shield, Galahad the White Stag, Red Hand Mordred, Morgaine the Riddle-Maker, Merlin Ambrosius and Ergo the Smith.

Please reference the names, colors and states of the people listed here and look at the factions/lands/zones of the Shadowlands. Make your own decisions regarding this...
(Ergo was the Smith...interesting...making machinations in his own image then?)

One area that disturbs me is in Elysium: Excalibur's End
Here we find a giant sword thrust into the rock in front of a closed Ergo portal. Why is it closed or sealed off? Interesting...

As with the conflict on Rubi-Ka, the conflict in the Shadowlands is a senseless era of violence that should be curtailed. We see many paralells in both worlds, however, the way I see things may differ from the way things actually are, so please bear with me as some of my ideas may seem radical and may buck the system:

Omni - Redeemed : Believe they do nothing wrong, are moving foreward for the better of all and that the Unredeemed are a destructive enemy with different ideals...

Clan - Unredeemed : Believe they hurt the place in which they exist, see the Redeemed as a iron-fisted tyrant who seeks to do nothing but supress and opress those who wish to do what they well and will go to any lengths to be free...

Ergo - ICC : A supposedly neutral entity with covert plans who can not entirely be trusted and will never be fully understood. Exist only as a guide and does nothing actively constructive towards unifying the factions...

JAME - Brink : Unwittingly destroying that which they do not understand by tampering with the powers available to them...
I believe the brink is part of the corruption of the Beast and is part of the resulting split of Rubi-Ka from the Shadowlands.

We (Rubi-Kans) - Incoming Aliens : Just as we rushed into the shadowlands like a tidal wave to supposedly set the balance and make things right, so will the Aliens approach Rubi-Ka to set the balance and make things right.

Often tims in a mirror, things are reversed, inverted and distorted, thus my reasoning for Clan = Unredeemed and Omni = Redeemed... it is the mirror self (or the other self) we must jump into conflict with in order to better understand the future...

Probably more to come being as that I am at work and should be doing paperwork, but the entire story of AO intrigues me and I too would enjoy a complete story explaining the Merc's, the Dust Brigade, Camelot (Shadowlands...hello...perhaps Excalibur's end leads to a secret room within Camelot and the Tarasque was brought here from there and the people of camelot are a mirror of those from SL...look at the knights armor...), The Cyborgs origin, Trash King plot movement, Medusae...where do they come from and what is the complex they harbor that resembles absolutely no technology on Rubi Ka or the Shadowlands, Foreman's Office (BIOMARE), What is the purpose of Rising Sun platform (clan pads), whats the story behind all the landmarks in AO? The Dual Obelisks, the Pyramid, Mutant Domain, Versailles, Steps of Madness, Smugglers Den, Crash Sites, Hollow Island, Enigma Forrest, certain named folks like Ljotur, the One, etc, the Faces in the Landscape, Eremite Statue, Notum Tree, Borealis Dish, Crypt of Home, etc...explanations of most of this would add some ****e to the world of Rubi-Ka and encourage more roleplay... it ceases being a game and becomes a story at that point...

I've gone on too long... I guess that's more than two credits eh?

[Octo]

Im wondering what it is with the source that creates the apocalypse, and why the Aliens have sent ships for an invasion. Surely there is something about the source that we don't know, and there are few in the Shadowlands that talk about what it will do to us if we "release it".