Pandemonium Backstory?

[Rukus]

They were clearly Xan.

Shadowlands IS a physical place.

People don't seem to read this thread. The Shadowlands and Rubi-Ka are the SAME planet. When all that mystical BS went down part of Rubi-Ka was ripped out and throw into its own pocket of dimension, creating the Shadowlands.

The Beast as not PUT there but rather Sealed there. By who? By what? I don't know. I assume the Kyr'Ozch. Obviously.

The Beast's name is Abad-don. Abaddon means quite literally "Lucifier," "Satan," or "Devil."

The Fisher King, which was the original form of Abad-don, was obviously the God entity. . .

Arthur lost his mind, as did the eight heros, and this became Abad-don. He went and absorbed leaders of the plane and took in twenty souls to become his body.

[If6was9]

I'm no authority on what FC officially intended the storyline to be.

Here's my experiential (ill informed) take on it:

-Notum is the RK manifestation of the source.
-The source emanates in its pure form from SL.
-SL is an ancient interior to the planet of RK.
-The original inhabitants of SL divided along 'resource conservation' (redeemed) and 'resource usage unchecked' (unredeemed)*
-when we finally killed The Beast we unwittingly killed a guardian that protected both SL and RK from hostile aliens.
-the aliens have come to steal notum/source and will fight us for it.

Apparently FC has implied that SL was supposed to be eden and that the universe in toto was supposed to have been spawned from some event in SL... which, if true, is pretentious crap and I'll do my best to ignore it.

What interests me is a) the evil/good duality. Even if TheBeast is supposed to be the devil, this character is not presented as pure evil (since he was a guardian). This may be indicative of Norway's ancient warrior ethos conflicting with a modern christian ethos. Or may just be indicative of a deeper ambivalence...
* b) the 'good steward of a dubious source'.... Norway is sitting on a LOT of crude oil and the present government, which is still led by a king (?) in some kind of representative, semi-socialist fashion, has been engaging in a practice of saving and investing it's oil revenues (rather than sharing them out amongst its people in real-time) in anticipation of the day it all runs out... or global warming throttles hydrocarbon fuel use. Norwegians and plenty of northern europeans are VERY wary of global warming since so much of the land is at or below sea level - in addition to whatever global concerns they possess. This ambivalence is well-represented in the SL storyline (less so the RK one).

While the latter issue might be considered 'totally off story' I believe that it - in fact - profoundly affects FC's output.

Much of the environment of SL (precipitous, rocky coasts; stunning auroras; the winter wonderland of Penumbra) are actually straight out of norwegian reality. There's even a few maelstrommes. Hecklers are 'destroying the land by ripping off pieces of it'... much like rising water would swallow up the coastline of shallower lands.

Many of the names in AO/SL are Norwegian plays on words too. Some quite lewd. I like that.

Lastly, FC was recognized for some sort of cultural contribution by the Norwegian government as a result of SL and given rather a lot of money.

How the heck do the aliens fit in with this? Not sure. Think the ambivalence sees no way out. Norway does not want to kill it's cash cow. But can it justify making a mint for its resident's future by distributing a product (oil) that it knows will compromise everyone's?

Norway's predicament is actually a distillate of the world's on this issue. Our collective economy would tank without readily accessible and relatively cheap energy. America's economic power would be significantly affected by a more prudent approach to hydrocarbon use. Ultimately, SL seems to represent as 'good' the patient stewardship of a resource.

You guys may be looking for your allegories in the wrong places.

So.... the aliens. Man, I think they're a wary version of us... all us non-Norwegians... coming to plunder a resource that might best be kept under wraps. We're fighting waves of ourselves.

Dig it.

[Cypho]

I've always thought that the Source was energy, and the brink monsters were entropy. Since our universe is an eternally expanding one, eventually it will suffer entropic death. That's when all energy is reduced to a uniform state. Energy can only be used if it's higher than the "background" energy. The brink-mobs eat away at the energy from the source, making it unusable.

Saying that the Universe is expanding based on flimsy evidence ( red-shift and background radiation ) is a very bold statement indeed. But it doesn't make it right. Might as well argue that Earth is flat.

[Rukus]

That was the best post EVER If6was9. EVAR. PERIOD.

Hahahahahhahahahhahahaha.

I still say the Kyr'Ozch are Xan. That or they're just Americans.

[kranden]

I found something interesting. I was playing Final fantasy Tactics. The Zodiac brave story seems similar to the pand story.

[darkthought]

Saying that the Universe is expanding based on flimsy evidence ( red-shift and background radiation ) is a very bold statement indeed. But it doesn't make it right. Might as well argue that Earth is flat.

Really? I'm pretty sure that scientists have said that there isn't enough matter in the universe to halt it's expansion. Find me scientist who doesn't support the ever expanding theory (and back up his reasoning), and I'll show you a scientist who's laughed at in the astrophysics community.

And entropy is a LAW of thermodynamics. There is no disputing it. Here's a way to test it. Take a cup of hot water and a cup of cold water. Let them stand in a room for a few hours. They'll go to room temperature, so you can't make tea or jello. That's entropy. Every energy source will eventually reach that point of useless energy. The only thing that will "resurrect" it is another big bang. But then, there isn't enough gravity in the universe to halt its expansion.

[Raydente]

What i really like in the SL story are the elements taken from other Earth mythology, even from Finnish mythology such as certain names of Hiisi Warrior (Hiisi would be a troll in finnish) and Kaleva the pocketboss. Could probably name few other but everytime they pop up in-game it just makes a nice homy feel inside

[Veg_O_Matic]

Really? I'm pretty sure that scientists have said that there isn't enough matter in the universe to halt it's expansion.

http://astron.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/dm.html

To quote:

"that does not mean that matter makes up the critical density"

The expansion and possible future collapse of our universe bubble may have little
or nothing to do with "matter" as we know it.

Do remember that our current cosmological knowledge is quite infantile and to
make sweeping statements regarding the "universe" at large is really laughable.

Oh and Teh Beastzor = Arthur
(I believe the "fisher king" is a concept representing an amalgam rather than an
individual)

Great thread, even though I do not like SL gameplay this thread makes me want
to travel it extensively to research more of the backstory.

[monduskies]

I've been thinking, if when we killed the beast we were suddenly put onto rubi-ka in the temple of home, why not be able to go to shadowlands from there. Maybe we screwed up by letting our scientists drill us a hole in space up in jobe, maybe we were just supposed to meat number 9 and be warned and possible travel directly to the source and meet the beast as an ally not something we wanted to kill for realy no reason.

The temple of home is an odd spot being in the middle of a blasted out crater lake with a pyramid pointing directly up teh center, mayhap its the counterpart of pandemonium or more directly put the exact spot where the source is most powerful. Kind of looks like if you put the big energy vortex and thing way up in the sky from pandemonium right above that temple and crater in home you could have some sort of ancient sacred source temple or what not. Well im sure some ppl can understand this lol, what i think is that spot is the part of rubi-ka closest to the source and by more or less breaking into the Shadowlands in nascence and elysium we were then liable candidates to be manipulated by a rampant ai who no one knows what he realy wants, if we had just simply gone through and met the beast no large journey through SL and chance to be turned to ergo's side. Maybe the beast had a task for us to help save the shadowlands instead of destroying him and leaving everything vulnerable.

Well thats what i think, just came up with it while reading here so no extensive research and stuff. I also think real world physics and hypothesis' should be kept out of this thread, its very obvious were dealing with a strange other universe with many difference to our own while playing. Ie not being able to use yalms for some reason, the world simply floating out in nothingness split completely apart, the corrosive air eating away at things in nascence, whatever the hell metawater is and what caused it to exist, and how ergo himself says gravity is goin all wonky in schoel.

[Cypho]

Really? I'm pretty sure that scientists have said that there isn't enough matter in the universe to halt it's expansion. Find me scientist who doesn't support the ever expanding theory (and back up his reasoning), and I'll show you a scientist who's laughed at in the astrophysics community.

And entropy is a LAW of thermodynamics. There is no disputing it. Here's a way to test it. Take a cup of hot water and a cup of cold water. Let them stand in a room for a few hours. They'll go to room temperature, so you can't make tea or jello. That's entropy. Every energy source will eventually reach that point of useless energy. The only thing that will "resurrect" it is another big bang. But then, there isn't enough gravity in the universe to halt its expansion.

The Law of Entropy does not apply at the quantum level, a fact that baffles your so called 'scientists'... then again, making up something based on empirical evidence and calling it a 'law' doesn't make it one. The Big Bang theory has significant flaws in it regarding the amount of antimatter at the start of the expansion and the complete inability of the astrophysics communty to explain where it is right now. As I've said, observing red-shift and background EMP doesn't mean you KNOW how the Universe came to be and arrogance never makes an argument right ( especially if your Standard Model of the Universe is flawed to boot ).

[Veg_O_Matic]

To put things back on track:

Why do the Unredeemed tell me that they are working for the Omega ?

I, as a character from RK, should not even have a clue who the Omega
are, but Ardent Pi Shere says he is on an important mission for the Omega
which reveals the secret society to me (as a character) for no good reason.

So how does one explain the open, and apparently not secret, connection
between the Unredeemed and the Omega ?

Also the Unredeemed tell me that Shere is an ancient Xan, does that mean
that they are not Xan after all ?

[Cypho]

Veg-O,

That's an unfortunate storyline error, as it's the opposite, the Omega are working for the Unredeemed. But you're right, the offhand mentioning of the Omega does sound a bit odd... Maybe a hint at a future quest?

[Veg_O_Matic]

Veg-O,

That's an unfortunate storyline error, as it's the opposite, the Omega are working for the Unredeemed. But you're right, the offhand mentioning of the Omega does sound a bit odd... Maybe a hint at a future quest?

Can we get some official confirmation on that ?

The text is so clearly put forth in the quest that I am having a hard time accepting
that they would have left it that way if it is not correct.

I know, I know, lots of stuff never fixed yet..

But would they leave such a glaring and contradictory error in the story ??

Especially given that the NPC told me that Shere is "one of the ancient Xan",
implying that the Unredeemed are not Xan but some other race.

(the ARK tours may be flat out wrong)

I was thinking that by the year 30,000 that maybe the Omega had been informed
of what their part in the grand scheme was and that the Unredeemed, as well as
the Omega, were now working (openly in the case of the Omega) for the Xan.

So I'm guessing that Aban, Thrak, Shere etc... are Xan and they are using
Unredeemed, Redeemed, Omega and anyone else they can to reach their desired
ends of controlling of the source and that all the Xan (Aban, Thrak, etc) are
working together behind the scenes and only representing themselves as good
vs. evil to be better able to control the Unredeemed/Redeemed through their
worship.

After all, both Unredeemed and Redeemed lead the players of both Clan and Omni
to the same goals in the end even though they try to present those goals from
different perspectives.

ARGH !!

If the online story is borked then we may never have any answers..

[Keldros]

So I'm guessing that Aban, Thrak, Shere etc... are Xan and they are using
Unredeemed, Redeemed, Omega and anyone else they can to reach their desired
ends of controlling of the source and that all the Xan (Aban, Thrak, etc) are
working together behind the scenes and only representing themselves as good
vs. evil to be better able to control the Unredeemed/Redeemed through their
worship.

OK...so what tells you that Shere, Thrak, etc. are another race controlling the Unredeemed, and aren't Unredeemed themselves?

[Veg_O_Matic]

OK...so what tells you that Shere, Thrak, etc. are another race controlling the Unredeemed, and aren't Unredeemed themselves?

Just by virtue of the fact that the Unredeemed refer to Shere as "One of the
ancient Xan".

If the Unredeemed are Xan, then it wouldn't make sense to refer to the Xan in
the terms that they do.

[Keldros]

Just by virtue of the fact that the Unredeemed refer to Shere as "One of the
ancient Xan".

If the Unredeemed are Xan, then it wouldn't make sense to refer to the Xan in
the terms that they do.

There are a number of possibilities here. First, are you sure you were speaking with one of the Unredeemed and not one of their servant factions?

Even more obvious, you're placing emphasis on the word Xan instead of ancient. Maybe Shere was around before Xan society split into Redeemed and Unredeemed factions...if they don't mind giving immortality to loyal servants (Omega) I would presume they have something as good or better for themselves. While some of the Redeemed/Unredeemed would be ancient Xan, the rest would be their descendants...I seriously doubt they gave up reproducing simply because a civil war fractured their society.

[Keldros]

I, as a character from RK, should not even have a clue who the Omega
are, but Ardent Pi Shere says he is on an important mission for the Omega
which reveals the secret society to me (as a character) for no good reason.

Also, have you ever bothered to read Prophet Without Honor? The Omega are not a secret at all. They enslaved the Solitus long before the other breeds were created, and the Solitus rebelled against them in a war on a global scale. That's the sort of thing that doesn't just end up forgotten very quickly.

[Veg_O_Matic]

Also, have you ever bothered to read Prophet Without Honor? The Omega are not a secret at all.

LOL, Yeah, I "bothered" to read it and I did so with what is known as
"comprehension".

The Solitus were left with the impression that they destroyed the Omega,
any mention of the Omega should bring about historically ingrained upset in
the Solitus.

What possible reason would anyone have for telling RK people that the Omega still
exists, given the historical fact that the Omega tried to destroy the Solitus ?

That would be incredibly stupid and would be the equivalent of telling one's
employees that one was Adolph Hitler.

Don't think that would go over too well.

If you think the Omega are no longer a secret, you need to re-read the novella.

[Veg_O_Matic]

There are a number of possibilities here. First, are you sure you were speaking with one of the Unredeemed and not one of their servant factions?

Try re-reading the posts.

It clearly mentions who I was talking to.

Even more obvious, you're placing emphasis on the word Xan instead of ancient.
Maybe Shere was around before Xan society split into Redeemed and Unredeemed
factions...

Why would they not claim relation by saying "our divine ancestor" as opposed to
"the ancient" ??

There is no implied connection or relationship. (other than worshipper and diety)

if they don't mind giving immortality to loyal servants (Omega)

The Omega only think they are immortal because they have lived a long time,
who's to say that the Xan will not wipe them out when their purpose is served ?

Vanya was quite clear to Zubov about just exactly who was whom in the grand
scheme...

30,000 years of "immortality" to a human is just a cosmic blink in time to a being
that is truly immortal.

.

[Cypho]

Just to clear things a bit ( I am enjoying this debate )...

Zubov was the ONLY human granted immortality by the Unredeemed, the rest of the Omega gained it through the nanotechnology they have developed based on the knowledge the Unredeemed provided. All factions consider the Omegas irrelevant, their time has passed, they've had their chance and blew it. As long as they are useful to the Unredeemed as agents and servants they will let them be.

The Xan split along the lines of the Redeemed/Unredeemed ( remember the 20 second war? ) and through the millenia distinctions between the truly immortal beings and the Xan vanished, so yes, you can consider the Xan as Unredeemed or Redeemed, they have changed too much to be a separate species.

As to the origins of the "aliens", my guess would be that they are the descendants of the Xan with a slight Unredeemed alignment. Possibly a splinter group that left the planet during the civil war or a neutral faction that got corrupted by the Unredeemed ( or in the process of being corrputed ). Killing the Beast was an evil act, unfortunately, and they are here to "teach us a lesson". The reasons are unimportant, the deed is done, no matter how noble or devilish the reasons were...