can i be pvp exempt

[______________Jypsie]

Alot of folks keep pointing out some extreme examples of PvP behavior. This is well and good, as its an excellent way of trying to get your points across.

An exteme example of why I quit hunting in Lush Fields when I was lower level, or other populated hunting spots now:

I am at a very nice hunting spot. I've been there handling the area for 30min-1hr. Great, fast spawns, great xp. Another group/player comes up and starts blasting my kills. We'll call this group/player "Leech." I ask Leech to stop, as I was here first and can handle the area myself. Leech says no. A few more minutes of this and I'm starting to get a headache. Toss in a few "lol, /flip, /moon" right in my face for emphasis. So, I move to another spot, and Leech follows and continues leeching. Apparently Leech can't handle that spot without higher level help. Now, Leech is "forcing his will" on me.

In a suppressed zone I have nothing to do about it either than leaving the zone, or spending another 30min-1hr. of dealing with Leech so I can waste an ARK's time to come out there and tell me that Leech has as much right to be hunting in that area as I do.

In a political zone I can solve the problem in about 15 seconds. Leech won't waste me, as Leech needs me to survive to hunt out there in the first place. But I neither need, nor want Leech's interference, and I can get my point across clearly.

With the a PvP switch in, no matter what I do, I have to put up with Leech.

[______________Leumas]

Hmm..nice example you got there. Anyway you seem to forgor about one important point. If that zone was 25% or 0% in the first place, I doubt you would be hunting there and I doubt anyone will. The zone will be empty as hmm...any pvp zones in this games.

[Bionitrous]

Originally posted by Jypsie

I am at a very nice hunting spot. I've been there handling the area for 30min-1hr. Great, fast spawns, great xp. Another group/player comes up and starts blasting my kills. We'll call this group/player "Leech." I ask Leech to stop, as I was here first and can handle the area myself. Leech says no. A few more minutes of this and I'm starting to get a headache. Toss in a few "lol, /flip, /moon" right in my face for emphasis. So, I move to another spot, and Leech follows and continues leeching. Apparently Leech can't handle that spot without higher level help. Now, Leech is "forcing his will" on me.

In a suppressed zone I have nothing to do about it either than leaving the zone, or spending another 30min-1hr. of dealing with Leech so I can waste an ARK's time to come out there and tell me that Leech has as much right to be hunting in that area as I do.

Well, yes. Mr. "Leech" does have every damn right to be where you are. Who the hell are you to tell him he can't hunt there? Let's compound things and assume you are both in the same faction (Omni or Clan). You are actually going to petition a fellow in your company or brotherhood because they are gaining in experience? It's actually you're attitude that needs to be looked at.

Now, assume it's a Clanner exp'ing in Lush Fields. Now, you have something to talk about. I agree you have the right to call the authorities to have this person kicked out of Omni territory. After all, he/she is in violation of the Tir Accord.

Now, rather than have this be a 25%/0% zone where you can simply gank people and make the game a miserable POS, you should be able to send a 'warning' to this person that initiates a 60-second PvP countdown. The person can either stand their ground and fight you or get on their horse and high tail it to the zone.

Nobody is necessarily saying that they want PvP taken out of the game. What most people want is some rational behind the actions of the players. They want ganking to stop. They want the killing to have a reason. If a war were ever to be declared, they want a rational and objectives for the battles to ensue. They want battles, not 'duels' and ganking. They want medals for acting heroically during a momentous battle. They don't want 'titles' given for ganking or being a timely zoner.

The fact that PvP may be exciting for two people who are both willing to accept the risk of doing battle with each other simply for the thrill of doing battle with each other doesn't mean that it doesn't suck for every other circumstance under which players do harm to other player's characters.

Until PvP has a meaning that puts value on acts of bravery rather than cowardice and the attacker has as much to lose as the attacked, it'll remain the realm of predatory jerks who only garner respect from other predatory jerks for their precious 'titles'.

[Mercatura]

I can't wait for /outcast in SWG.

PvP in AO has no hope at all, it will always be crap.

[______________Jypsie]

Leumas,

I hunt in political zones all the time. Less crowds, no leeches, just risk of getting jumped by the enemy. But I always expect to get attacked when I'm in the zones. Its a risk I take and one I'm glad to live with.

Bio,

I really can't believe that you are defending leeches. I'm not saying that I own everything in an area, I know I don't. My complaint is the leech, the lower level guy/group that follows you around and attacks what you are attacking so that you take all the punishment and they take a split of the experience. You do realize that if you attack something that someone else is fighting, they recieve less exp for the kill, right?

Anyhow,

As far as more meaningful battles, everyone wants that. Bad. But I play a soldier in a war and I take my battles where I can get them. Some of the best fights I've been in has been when the Division (a military wing of OT) has gotten word that someone has gotten killed several times in a row trying to get through the 2HO Omni Post. You see, we follow a general concept that you take your own life into your hands when you cross the line. But, if its obvious that there is a serious Clan presence in an Omni area of a political zone, we step in. We form up a few squads and an move in. /Shout, "This post is Omni-Tek poperty! It is now under Martial Law. All Clan personel are ordered to return to Clan aligned territories! All Neutral civilians should return to thier homes immediatley for thier own protection!"

We then procede to clean out the post. The order is repeated again and again. Sometimes we walk over the place in a few minutes and hang around for about 30min after for good measure. Sometimes a bunch of good Clanners show up and we spend several hours fighting. Sometimes we even get our butts kicked. I can never say that a Neut has never been caught in the fighting, but I can say that I have never personally attacked one, and it is the Div's policy not to attack them. But, they are warned (Tab, T, see Neutral, /tell %t "Leave the area now. This area has been locked down.") and if someone gets caught in the crossfire, I feel bad for them, but they decided to step across that line and knew where they were.

Good fights, good times. Sure, 30 mins after we leave the 2HO Post is back to buisness as usual, but for a few hours that night we made an impact. Maybe a couple clanners were just "passing through" but they chose a real bad time to go through an Omni base. Clan knew that when they chose that side, that they would be the enemies of Omni, so they should tread lightly when passing through an Omni Base in a political zone.

Some folks might accuse the Div of being chicken team "gankers" Sure, it could seem that way to them. We see ourselves as Omni-Tek military being mobilized to secure an Omni Outpost that has gotten repeated messages from Omni employees that clanners are overunning it and have now become a threat to buisness.

Folks know that this game is based on a war over a planet between the megacorp Omni-Tek and the rebelious, freedom-driven Clans. If they do not want to be part of the war they can stay out of the warzones. Folks come to the war, the war does not come to them. The moment Athen Shire or Omni-Forest becomes 25%, I'll change my tune, but until then...

[___________Harlequin]

Originally posted by Jypsie
Bio, folks don't go hunting deer in a warzone. Family's don't go for Sunday Picnics out in Mort. There are no innocents in political zones.
If you want to stay a "civie" and stay out of the war that is going on, stay out of the war zones.

hehe, both ingame and in real life, the first sentence is very wrong indeed.
wars have a nasty tendency to move over all areas of a country/continent, and a lot of times the point of conflict is going to be spot on civilian residential areas/cities.
and guess what, the civilians trapped between sides need to feed as well, and the only place to get said sustenance is usually reeking with heavily armed and tightly wound people.
and as for ingame tendencies, people do go sightseeing in mort.
i've personally been to mort several times over longer periods just to map the wildlife there, and as a neut, i represent no valid threat to anyone. (and i travel alone 90% of the time, so it's really quite hard to mistake me for an advance scout for a raiding party etc)
i still get jumped now and again though, some apologize later not realizing i was a neut etc, and then again some don't. (think i've heard all the standard excuses by now, some seem more genuine than others).

one amusing thing regarding bio's statements about random killing/ganking is quite true, and one fairly recent example could be the snipers and terror troops at work during the bosnian war.
(a conflict that was televised enough for most people to at least have a vague recollection of it)
there you had individual soldiers or smaller groups of soldiers running around killing civilians, in some cases because they were told to, and in some cases simply because they got a kick out of it.
now i'm not saying that every computer game ganker is a genocidal lunatic in training or anything like that, just that they (the gankers that is) actually fulfill a role that you do see on most fields of battle, and that's the people that kill others for the "fun" of doing it rather than to fulfill any form of military objective or such.
they simply kill becuse they can (ingame i'm guessing that pvp title is just so damn attractive *snicker*) but in an ironic kind of way they do add to a more realistic feel of a world entagled in conflict.
(though it would be nice if a ganker got publicly strung up now and again, just to give some impression that there actually are laws and people that govern rubi-ka unlike the politics we've seen so far that in most cases seem far removed from people in general)

so most gankers DO rp a role, though i'm guessing that it's not a role that all of them would have chosen if people started comparing them to their real-life counterparts

and just so it's said, not a personal jab against you jypsie, just adding a different point of view if you will

edit: oh, and i noticed jypsie wrote "Its a risk I take and one I'm glad to live with. "
that pretty much sums up my views on neutrality as well, i know the risks of going into a political or mayhem zone, and i'm perfectly willing to accept them, that includes the risk of ganking and "accidental" fire if you will.

[______________Jypsie]

Harlequin,

I understand where your coming from with you RL analogy, but like many others that folks state (such as Nostra's "Woman in a dark alley", which I personally found distasteful and unnecessary), some do not cross over into this game.

If you logged one day and found yourself camped in what was once a suppressed zone, and now the gas is dropped and you have to fight for you life to get out, you would have a point. But everyone enters the warzones knowing that they are warzones, except thier first experience. The first time I learned what a political zone was was with my first character wondering what 2HO was and walked through the Whoompa in Entertainment. I was wacked by an Agent before I finished loading (this was way before PvP damage reduction, or 15 sec rules, back when Agents could one shot folks.)

I laughed, picked up my gear from the Reclaim, walked down the step to the Whoompa, kicked my head aside (which I was sure got blown back through the Whoompa) and buffed up for a scrap.

[____________Valerian]

Jypsie,

hmm I dont understand what your little leech story is supposed to demonstrate. You want popular hunting spots to be political or mayhem? It would not be popular anymore the moment the ganking starts. Leeching isnt that bad and most ppl hunt in places where it is possible to do it.
The possibility to kill off lower levels at will isnt a solution to that problem.

As far as more meaningful battles, everyone wants that. Bad. But I play a soldier in a war and I take my battles where I can get them. Some of the best fights I've been in has been when the Division (a military wing of OT) has gotten word that someone has gotten killed several times in a row trying to get through the 2HO Omni Post. You see, we follow a general concept that you take your own life into your hands when you cross the line. But, if its obvious that there is a serious Clan presence in an Omni area of a political zone, we step in. We form up a few squads and an move in. /Shout, "This post is Omni-Tek poperty! It is now under Martial Law. All Clan personel are ordered to return to Clan aligned territories! All Neutral civilians should return to thier homes immediatley for thier own protection!"

Uhm, the word you try to avoid is GRID CAMPING. Allow me to resume: You grid in, kill the grid campers from the other faction and then take their place and grid camp. How come PvP doodz get all roleplayish the moment they enter PvP but dont give a damn the rest of the time?

Val

[______________Leumas]

Originally posted by Jypsie
Leumas,

I hunt in political zones all the time. Less crowds, no leeches, just risk of getting jumped by the enemy. But I always expect to get attacked when I'm in the zones. Its a risk I take and one I'm glad to live with.

Great, now we just need more people like you. Seriously, do you ever wonder why most people goto BS for mission after lv 100? People go there because everything worth hunting are in political zones. In case you argue nobody go BS and that place was empty all the time....../me point at the only sticky thread in Game Mechanics forum.

Not much people willing to take the risk of hunting in pvp zones. You are the minority here. Why should Funcom waste resourse on something that only a few people like you get to enjoy?

Originally post by Jypsie
I am at a very nice hunting spot. I've been there handling the area for 30min-1hr. Great, fast spawns, great xp. Another group/player comes up and starts blasting my kills. We'll call this group/player "Leech." I ask Leech to stop, as I was here first and can handle the area myself. Leech says no. A few more minutes of this and I'm starting to get a headache. Toss in a few "lol, /flip, /moon" right in my face for emphasis. So, I move to another spot, and Leech follows and continues leeching. Apparently Leech can't handle that spot without higher level help. Now, Leech is "forcing his will" on me.

I agree KSing is sux but is nowhere near ganking.
What if that zone was indeed a pvp zone? Do you think he and his friend will just simply steal your killed?

If you think "lol, /flip, /moon" are bad, then I am sure you won't like the insult /tell you would receive after getting ganked. Yep, leech is "forcing his will" on you. Would you rather he split on your corpse and called you his bit**?

Everyone dislike ganking expect the ganker himself. I have no idea why are you supporting ganking activities. Are you one of the no life ganker?

[______________Jypsie]

Val,

My leech story demonstrates that there are problems on the PvP and non PvP sides of the fence with cetain rude players. PvP has "Gankers", non-PvP has "Leeches". Unless you've had someone /follow you around for an hour constantly like they were attached to you sucking off you, causing massive loss of xp and dangerous pulls [they got to close to something social and dragged it onto you since your the big "highlevel" who happens to be healing yourself (which passes aggro among social creatures) and with a good damage shield, "Oh look!" it jumped you and you can't get it off since Leech is still attacking your main target and your damage shield and heals keeps it (the second mob) on you] you don't grasp the leech concept. It happens. It gets me angry. I don't like to be angry when playing a Game.

I don't want suppressed zones to be 25-0. I've stated that already in this thread. I just dont want non-soldiers in the warzones.

I knew the Grid-Camp thing would pop up. Wish you could be privy to the talk amongst Div Squads when we go to clear 2HO. It is a point to pull back from the whoompa and grid area. You always hear officers reminding the grunts (when one chases a Clanner as he runs to Grids out) "Pull back, %t" "Dont shoot anyone unless thier aggro" . We always stay on the move . I've lead Div Squads and I always demand my boys keep on the move. Just the 2HO base isnt that big from Barracks to Whoompa so if a Clanner comes into base, he will get spotted. We want a fight, not a turkey shoot, but we're not going to wait for a bunch of clanners to zone in, form up groups, then ask them nicely if they are ready to fight. If your mobile and clan, your a possible target when we lock down the area.

Meaning, if you are a clanner and zone into 2HO and you see 1 Div Member, you can head on you way, he's probably just there doing his own thing (unless its one of the Div that like to scrap in thier spare time). If your clan and zone in and see 20-30 Div patroling around the 2HO post, you best use your 15 seconds to turn around and hit that terminal again.

[Bionitrous]

Why is there only 25% suppression gas in Mort? Somebody tell me. As far as I know it's because some dumb machine broke down and stopped pumping out the extra 50%.

When did Phillip Ross or Omni-Tek ever say that taking over Mort or killing Clanners up there was the new direction of Omni-Armed Forces? For that matter, did the Council of Truth change their minds and now decide that Clanners killing Neutrals in Mort is not a human right offense anymore?

What is the objective that you Omni people are trying to accomplish by killing other players characters up in Mort? Where is the press briefing by the head of Omni-AF saying that Omni-Tek has basically pulled out of the Tir Accord and is engaging in war to take back Mort?

What is your purpose in killing Clanners in Mort other than doing so simply 'because you can'. What kind of idiot would head to EFP to kill Omni players 'just because they can'? Are you people stupid? You want to know why there is no story? This is part of it. Many hormonally imbalanced people simply can't work within the political framework of Rubi'Ka much less a story that already has an ending.

I appreciate Jypsies latest comments regarding the battles in 2HO. That scenario makes a little more sense. I suppose that the Clanners had missions in Stret East and didn't want to take the long way around. No other reason for a Clanner to be in Omni Territory.

PvP is not an 'activity'. It's not something 'you do'. If you want that then they should put 'Paintball' into the game. As part of a game it can be fun. If I am told to take up arms for a purpose I believe in, then I don't mind dieing for my cause. I really wanted to play a Rebel and have subsequently deleted a couple Clan characters. As far as I've seen from the demeanor of the Clan players they are just as bad, if not worse than the 'evil' corporation players. But, more importantly, it's been shown that the Council has authority over at least half the terraformed planet and are given autonomy to govern themselves. They have nothing to fight for (at least as far as being 'Rebels' or 'Freedom Fighters').

Someone tell me what these 'Rebels' are fighting for. They want to take over the other half of the planet, too? Not satisfied with what you were seced? Likewise, what is the justification for the Omni player who kills the Clanner up in Mort? Answer: either he's a complete ass in real life, has a hormone problem, or thinks he's 'roleplaying' a homocidal maniac. That's why people get ticked off when you gank them in Mort. It's NOT a warzone. You were NOT told to kill people up there by your leaders. Killing that person serves NO purpose.

I repeat again, when something happens that makes the agenda of either Omni-Tek or the Clans worth fighting for and the result of my actions will have an impact on the daily lives of my and my Neutral buddies, perhaps then we will take up arms to fight for an ideal. Until then, most of us will laugh at most of you gankers as people who 'just don't get it' and are trying to make more out of the PvP afterthought than there really is.

Seriously, consider Counterstrike if you want quality PvP simply for the sake of PvP. Or confine yerselves to the arena.

[_____________Wenzell]

I was told that I should kick any omni butt whenever I got a chance at the first day I joined clan.

[Meetshield]

In direct violation of existing treaties. That makes sense.... I doubt anyone with any authority(council of truth) told you to break existing laws and treaties. I believe you just demonstrated Bio's point.

[_____________Wenzell]

Whatever council only has authority on a portion of rebels. There are rebels everywhere, every fraction has its own codes and conducts.
If you refer to any rule that is not made upon the approval from my fraction, you can forget about your negotiation.

[FireC]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
But, more importantly, it's been shown that the Council has authority over at least half the terraformed planet and are given autonomy to govern themselves. They have nothing to fight for (at least as far as being 'Rebels' or 'Freedom Fighters').

Someone tell me what these 'Rebels' are fighting for. They want to take over the other half of the planet, too? Not satisfied with what you were seced?

Some of us do not recognize Council of Truth as any kind of authority over clans, in fact some of us think they're as bad as Omni. There also might not have been an official declaration of war but the situation right now is about as good as war.

I personally want Omnis off the planet, they are mining the holy notum and CoT is allowing it.

(See I can maybe be in character sometimes as well)

[Destractor]

Why do 25% zones exist?
Why not make them 0%

I personally don't like PvP at this time, but it don't make much sense that their are zones where PvP happens yet neuts can't start the fight.

0% zones would at least make people check the side the other person is on, a little more inteligent than just tabbing through the targets

[Bionitrous]

If you are Clan and don't support the Council of Truth, then you better turn in your Token Boards. You also best not have an apartment in Tir, Athen, or W. Athen.

If you are Clan then you signed up to support the CoT. End of Story. If not, then you are the equivalent of the Dust Brigade and are effectively a seperate faction and not entitled to the support that the council provides you.

If you thought that the CoT was as bad as Omni (which many of my characters do, BTW) then you should have rolled a Neutral character and not had it obligated to follow either faction's political manifest.

Check the logo on the Clan Application Form when you get a chance. I think you'll recognize it.

[FireC]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
If you are Clan and don't support the Council of Truth, then you better turn in your Token Boards. You also best not have an apartment in Tir, Athen, or W. Athen.

If you are Clan then you signed up to support the CoT. End of Story. If not, then you are the equivalent of the Dust Brigade and are effectively a seperate faction and not entitled to the support that the council provides you.

If you thought that the CoT was as bad as Omni (which many of my characters do, BTW) then you should have rolled a Neutral character and not had it obligated to follow either faction's political manifest.

Naw, see I can be clan and at the same not support CoT. There didn't used to be some central governing clan organization, they have maybe done good as well, but they are just dogs on Omni Tek's leash now. Read the history of Rubi-Ka one day and you might learn something.

And I think Dust Brigade is kinda neat .

[Meetshield]

There have been a lot of thugs that have come to Rubi-ka because they heard they could kill indiscriminately and not have to face any consequences. These murderers dont support any governing body, they just want to kill. They wont support the CoT because they would have to respect things like laws, treaties, etc... They thirst for blood and they dont care about anything else.

/ooc
and therein lies the problem with PvP on Rubi-ka. There are no consequences for your actions. There is nothing keeping you from being a full time ganker. There is no system in place to limit the killing in tir accord protected areas. Omni's killing clanners in Mort should face stiff penalties when they return to omni controlled areas. If they do it enough then they become criminals in their home area, and become KoS to all guards and NPCs. You can also lock em out of Omni shops, so the only places they can shop is in Neutral areas. At least that would make you think about what you were doing and where you were doing it. There would still be gankers there, but at least they would be paying a price for it.

Thats not gonna happen though because it seems pretty clear that Funcom doesnt mind PvP being nothing but a gankfest, and a faction system would actually take some thought on how to implement it.

[Bionitrous]

I was actually thinking earlier that the faction system as they have it is kind of stupid.

There's no sane reason that I can think of why any large number of Clanners would want to or need to go around killing Omni and vice versa.

Each side has more than enough territory in which they are completely 100% self-sovereign. I haven't seen a single thing in the story which would prompt one of the governments to issue an attack order on the other.

The factions should not have been Clan vs. Omni but rather Order vs. Anarchy. The PvP gankers in this game are criminals and anarchists in the context of the political framework of the planet. While I agree that they should be allowed to kill as an integral part of the game, they should be recognized for what they really are: terrorists, anarchists, psychotics, whatever.

Getting attacked by a group of blood thirsty lunatics in Mort would be understandable in this instance. They kill just to take your crap or just simply 'because'. The fact that Omni-Tek or the CoT can't afford to keep the suppression gas levels up in these areas makes them dangerous because lunatics and criminals hang out there. Not, because some misguided players can't seem to grasp the concept of politics and "Omni Suxx and Clans Rule!!"

The Omni vs. Clan PvP in retrospect was probably one of FunCom's worst ideas. Tension between the factions as part of the story would have been fine. Political squabbles and a minor military flare up would have added ****e to the game. However, to focus on the two sides constantly killing each other was in my opinion a terrible mistake.

The majority of the members of both factions feel they are good decent citizens. Neither factions members feel their leadership is 'evil' and in fact judging by FunCom's story so far neither _is_ evil. Characters rightly so have friends on both sides. It's kinda like the Democrats and the Republicans. You may disagree, but you don't take out a shotgun and kill your neighbor because he voted for George Bush. And those who do go to jail. It just doesn't work out in-game to have PvP run rampant between the two sides because in reality, both are really full of a bunch of good guys.

No, I think FunCom screwed up. I also think they tried to fix it by introducing the Dust Brigade. This third faction is indeed a bunch of true anarchists. They kill indiscriminately and can be labeled as criminals and true 'bad guys' by almost everybody. FunCom should seriously consider letting those who want to PvP indiscriminately without rhyme or reason join an Outcast faction. Let them kill for whatever purpose they want. Let them be attacked by both Clan and Omni AND Neutral in 25% zones. Don't give them the perks of Omni-Armor or ANY shops/insurance except for 'illegal' saves in some of the most remote areas. If a criminal faction wants to exist (and I feel this is good for the game) then it should be burdened with realistic difficulties.

Now, repeated for emphasis, Omni Employees who kill ANYONE except Outcasts in any location except the Arena should be disciplined by their employer. Likewise for Clanners and Neutrals who violate the laws. Storyline military clashes are excluded from this of course. The Sabulum incident was a nice example of Clan/Omni military conflict (and story PvP) done right. It flared up, it happened, it was over with. Fun time had by all.

Let's not continue to support the gankers as they make a mockery of what could be an interesting PvP situation.

The Shadowlands expansion timeframe is their opportunity to add this rogue 'faction'. I can see a zone added that may cater to these people. Bonus black market areas. Outcast insurance terminals. Outcast guards who KOS Omni, Clan, and Neutral.

You see if people want to play this type of character, you have to allow them to do it in context. There currently is no proper context in game (other than an Arena gladiator perhaps) for a player who wants nothing more than to run around all day killing other people.