Is this greedy?

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

Was in a mission group yesterday in PM, team consisted of an enforcer using a beam, 2 soldiers with novaflows, a trader with an ithaca, an MA and doctor (me, i use MA)

After clearing the main room area, we starting moving room to room hugging the right wall. We charged a room that had 2 spawns in it (the one that is like a small prison with 4 small rooms inside.) Anyway, once the fight was underway, after calming the add, the trader went into one of the prison rooms, and looted a chest.

He showed the group that he got a Ring of Power - High Energy, it was around q183, a pretty good loot. After showing the group the ring in chat, both soldiers were like "Wow!" After, he quickly said "I'm going to give it to my guildmate, I'm sure he'll be real happy."

I thought it was pretty bad that he just took a ring from a chest while everyone was fighting and didn't even offer it to either of the soldiers.

I know he could have just said nothing, and no one would have been the wiser, and he'd have smuggled the ring without a peep, but there's a problem here I think. All groups I've been in, chests have been a free for all, and somehow I think that's wrong.

EQ had a good solution where whenever anyone looted something from a monster, it would display a text message. If they did something like that for chest loots (and arguably boss monsters now too,) it would be a good step into stopping people from stealing. Sure it wouldn't have stopped the audacity of this gay trader, but at least he wouldn't have been able to smuggle something like that without us knowing.

[Nostra343]

I believe there is one main question: Have you agreed, as a team, on a policy for the chests?

If you decided to go round-robin and it wasn't his turn, or that you will share the loot in every way, then what he did was unacceptable.

However if you guys started the mission without a clear policy, then it's murky grounds at best, IMHO :-/
It wouldn't be, to me, so clear cut that he was either "stealing" or "gay". Triply so if he allowed people to take chests after that one.

My prefered policy is "round robin" - everybody takes a chest, and keeps whatever's in there. That's the most "fair" way that I can find (even though on any particular mission any one person may feel screwed - but between friends and overall, it ends up ok). It's the luck of the find, but it resolves potention conflicts such as which one of the two soldiers gets the ring and so on. Of course in a friendly team, if I get something that's useful to a teammate, I will offer it to him/her - but the point is, I don't have to.

Depending on whether I'm doing a mission merely for XP, I often don't care if I don't get any loot at all. I was in more then one team where only one person took all the chests. Similarly, I was also in missions (though not as often), when I personally took more then 50% of the chests.

So it all depends on the agreement. If there wasn't one, the whole team shares responsibility for your trader's actions. After all, he didn't do anything "wrong" if no "right/wrong" was defined :-/


... but that's just my $0.02. I'm not particularly picky about loot and often as not I'll just let others do what they please.

[_____________Cloudeh]

Yeah I agree sometimes there one that loots then fights.
Sometimes I do myself when running past.

Last night I have to thank all the team members and the night before my guild..


When people looted the boss mob the left alot on it, and they did infact leave a premium alloy staff, now i have two, i might give the second to my brothers enf.


but i do wait my turn.
And I give my stuff away free, alot of the time well 90%, that why i am poor, im too kind, i give stuff away, not sell ;/
Ps. sometimes i just loot anything to sell to shops.

[_____________Wenzell]

Dont team with ppl you dont trust then.
I dont know why such thing happens to you so often.
Ive never had any prob like this in my entire 195 lvls.

[______________Leumas]

Just state your disapointment and objective in team channel, then leave the mission for good. If enough people doing this, those chest robber would soon found he/she has noone to group with. BTW, I have never join a team that dicuss any policy for loot sharing before entering a mission. I believe no team will ever do that. This should be common sense/courtesy.

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

If it was a q200 battlesuit in the chest, and no one needed, then I wouldn't be upset at all.

I just find it insulting that the trader made me feel that I was there working to equip his guild and not to equip the people doing the mission.

No one really talks about chest loot, and everytime I join a team in AO, it's a different set of faces. The only loot people are concerened about is /team loot alpha. Chests are never talked about.

[_______________Esmee]

i have to say that this annoys the crap out of me. most of the time i don't even worry about chest loot, i don't have the b & e to check them so everyone that does can feel free to go crazy. it is really nice and refreshing when someone will show all the worthwhile stuff that is in the chests.

even if i did have the skills to unlock chests most of the time its not worth the hassle of having to race headfirst to the chests to beat the ninja looters that hardly even fight in missions they're so busy with chests. Go in a room, they run to chest first don't even bother with killing the mob. its just stupid and after all these pointless levels i just gave up on ever getting anything good lootwise. mainly because i don't feel like going through the stress of even dealing with it.

boss loot is another thing entirely. nothing like ninja looters running to the boss and then saying nothing good, all i took was (insert whatever slightly useful item here) there should be a better way. after boss mobs start dropping unique items it will be even worse. it basically boils down to whether or not you're going to be a dick and trample over everyone else in the group to grab stuff first or be a loser and try to be fair and considerate.

same in life..people who stomp all over everyone else get the good things. nice people get dicked. and yes i am bitter can you tell
i guess what is best is to just decide beforehand that one person will loot all and then show everyone.

[______________Leumas]

Well speak, Esmee. I agree wholely. I found it rather interesting that ninja looter are often those with higher b&e skills, aka agent. As if they know noone will unlocked a chest faster then them.

BTW, If we have /team loot alpha, why can't we have /team chest alpha?

[Verdeloth]

Support the /team chest alpha movement!!

[Nostra343]

as for boss, if you really don't trust people, make the one person in team that everybody trusts Leader, and set team loot leader. done.

(If you don't have one person in a team that you trust, after working through 3-4 hours of your life/XP depending on them... hm....)


>>I just find it insulting that the trader made me feel that I was there working to equip his guild and not to equip the people doing the mission.


you still didn't say what happened afterwards... if he looted all or most of chests first and didn't share anything, that's nasty.
But if he only looted that one chest, he could've well understood that you each got one chest and he just went and took his.


>>No one really talks about chest loot, and everytime I join a team in AO, it's a different set of faces. The only loot people are concerened about is /team loot alpha. Chests are never talked about.

Saying that most people don't discuss chest loot is not the same thing as everybody agreeing on what the chest loot procedure is.


Did you tell him your frustrations right then, or are you only venting now, with him possibly being ignorant of the problem? If you did what was his response?

The fact that he mentioned the item instead of hiding tells me that it was more likely a misunderstanding then him being evil mean thief. Otherwise he would've never mentioned the item.


edit:
oh and I'm all for team loot alpha; that's what I mostly do when I don't just let others loot, and almost always with friends (but then again, with friends, the items aren't a problem to begin with)..
But it seems to me that it's quite possible that's exactly what this trader thought was happening (that they were taking turns with chests), and here we are saying nasty things about him (an audacios gay trader, I believe it was...) for getting a good thing on his turn :-/.

[skybert]

Not long ago, I did a teammission, and one person (I don't remember the name, but if that NT is reading here, she will know who she is). And this NT intoduced me (us) to an easy system, which I hadnot thought about before.

One teammember keeps track, and calls out who has the "rights" for the next chest. Whenever we came across a new chest, she would call out "Sky chest" (which ment that chest was mine), or "xil chest" (which ment that chest belnged to Xilbo) etc. That worked good, and noone even thought about agruing about ninjalooters (peple rushing chests while others are still in combat)

-Thanks.

[assassimon]

I usually don't loot anything myself, but I only team with people I know, often my guild, and everyone just post what they find in chests and as loot and the one that need it most gets it.

If the looter need an item I guess he is the first to have it, but if he doesn't need, it goes to anyone in the team first, if noone want it, the looter just keep it and do whatever he want.

[_______________Wolfe]

A group chat or maybe even a vicinity /say message about what someone picks up would be a good thing. I myself would prefer the vicinity version due to roleplaying aspects, if you can talk to someone without shouting you should be able to see what he is doing.

When the group version of this was introduced in EQ the general ploiteness of players improved, that is a good thing and AO should consider the benefits of increasing the number of polite players.

I would also like to see this feature implemented since I am the leader of a guild myself, I want my guild members and occationally other friends who are present at larger raids (Tarasque for example) to see what the loot I take is. Its not very easy to make a large group of players trust you enough to manage high end loot like this.

An open system like this would also make it easier for the players who are making the transition from noobness to uberness (dont take that too serious) to feel welcome among the other high level players, since they dont have to doubt that they are beeing used by the "senior" high level people who happen to be a bit loot hungry.

Wolfe

[______________Leumas]

The problem would not exist if you are teaming with guild mate. Heck, I doubt the ninja looter would do the same thing if he/she grouping with friend or guildmate. However, it happen more often in a pick up group. Go to 20k, get a group and experience it. Shouldn't take you long to found a greedy bastard.

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

I didn't say anything about the ring after he claimed it for his guildie. Partly because I wasn't interested in the loot myself, partly because I knew that chests have become a free for all. Honestly, had it been something I wanted I would have probably made it an issue. I surely would have backed one of the soldiers if he had a problem with it, I don't know, perhaps one of the soldiers sent the trader tells about it...

I'm under an assumption that when a team goes out for a mission, or anything, if you don't need something, you offer it to your group first, you don't polish it and make it shiny and put it in your 'phat lewt to sell' bag for after the mission. You only do that AFTER no one wants it. That's my common sense assumption. Other people think otherwise, that's why I posed the question here, to find out if other people think like me or not.

I don't have the time to check for chests as a doctor, I'm too busy healing. But I can say that team chat was fairly lively and talkative, and it shut up for good after his declaration.

Later that day, I did have a form of 'divine justice' come unto me. An adventurer was in my group, and we charged one of those omni rooms with a big conference table in it. There was a MP mob in the room. The adventurer started fighting, but then he realized no one had grabbed the chest in the room. So he opened it up, and it was one of the ones that explode. After taking that hit, the MP mob completely ignored the enforcer that was tanking it, turned around and double hit the adventurer in omnipol elite to kill him

[MartekO]

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni
I'm under an assumption that when a team goes out for a mission, or anything, if you don't need something, you offer it to your group first

One thing I've noticed in pretty much all of the "pickup groups" in which I have been a member, is that they tend to move so fast through the rooms that there isn't really any time (for me anyway) to post the loot I find that might be of interest. I usually try posting interesting stuff at least once in said group, and typically what happens is any short pause causes me to "fall behind" and have to catch back up.

Nobody seems to want to take even a nanosecond pause to allow the group to stay together. Either you are going full-tilt, or you are falling behind. That's my experience through my current level 75.

I don't see this same behavior in guild groups or groups of friends or associates (with whom I may have teamed in the past but don't regularly comminicate) that I know.

So that tends to reinforce the grab it and go behavior, in my mind, in pickup groups.

Cheers,
Martek

[_______________Jinya]

Azzizz, that's what my normal team and I do, and it works great