14.2 - Over Equipping

[______________Nianna]

Originally posted by Isard
1. 148 Advent - All armor I can equip myself, I have a Q200 Rider and a Q178 Rider. The Q200 I need a small wrangle to get on (but still within 20%) and the Q178 I can self-equip.

2. 123 Doctor - All armor and weapons self-equipable.

So, OE has ZERO, nada, NO effect on me. Why? Besides the Armor / Weapon issues - if a trader mob / player debuffs me - I already can't use some nano's and my weapons are less effective.

Doctors never had any need for overequipping in PvM unless they wanted to solo, which is completely futile in this game past about level 60 except for the pet classes (until the OE patch) and your adventurer is high enough level that you are spared from the effects of the OE nerf because you have already gained almost 75% of the possible levels and over 80% of the maximum possible skill points meaning you will always be within 20% (for things you have room to implant anyway).

You won't feel left out though. Funcom has also nerfed critical hit buffs to make sure that the ultra high level players get some love too.

[______________Snardz]

Well, I feel that lexi1331 did make a good point, but anyway here is what i have to say. I feel that funcom, instead of balancing everyone out as they are NOW, meaning instead of nerfing every class(being the lazy mans way out) they should just fix up those who arent as good as the rest. Honestly funcom if you are reading these boards, get some decent programmers to fix the stupid game get a new frigin ISP, maybe get your servers off 56k, and most of all get off your ass and do something for once, you all are very lazy people. You have the world in your hands with this game witch has GREAT GREAT potential for being the BEST game out there and beating the market single handed, but you need to do something, dont just nerf all classes with OE and your done, because that's not making EVERYONE happy, and i know it's not possible to make everyone happy but it is possible to make mostly everyone happy, and i wil say this one more time: dont nerf the whole game, fix the classes that suck, make it balanced by fixing those classes, not nerfing the rest.

[________________Alli]

ok, maybe in my previous post i wasn't clear enough.

i think any weapon that is over-equipped, even by just one skill point should cease to function...period. i can't cast nano programs if i'm within one skill point, why should anyone be able to fire a pistol/rifle/shotgun etc.. if they don't have the skills ?

here's my solution..

use only weapons that you have the skills to use! duh!

frankly i'm really sick and tired of the lvl 110 soldier killing me with his ql 200 nova or whatever. with that weapon on as it stands now, he is really a lvl 200 soldier disguised as a lvl 110. take that weapon away (since he doesn't have the skills to use it) and now you have a lvl 110 soldier in a fair fight.

if this bothers you, then you must be over-equipped..get weapons you can use and play the game the way it was intended.

[_________DarkCorgano]

Someone said, "I don't see the problem with traders needing to rebuff during the downtime." Please, if you DON'T understand how a trader works don't assume someone who does is wrong. A trader needs a MOB to rebuff, preferably one not pounding on you at the time. So, during that downtime no rebuffing will get done. The team needs to attack a target at which time the trader can rebuff off of it... and maybe get the 6 necessary spells to cast a decent wrangle again... most likely 2 mobs will be needed if the first doesn't eat the team alive. This is because before rebuffing the trader needs to wait for the wrangle-backlash to wear off, as the backlash wears off, so does the team's wrangle. Net effect = team operates with wrangle for 3 minutes then without for 2 mobs or so... which is a problem as with the wrangle they'll be fighting mobs unchange since BEFORE the patch.

PROBLEM FUNCOM: You increased the power of the mobs (hps, ect) because of over-equipping... now with the patch you're NOT decreasing them. Anyone see a player-hating trend here? I do.

I don't CARE about OE, I don't do it.. never have. I do care about the trader becoming uslesses until the "powers that be" realize it, which probably won't be for a while. And I am worried about missions being un-playable due to the power of the mobs vs. the new power of the players. How many times have mission been un-playable after a patch? 2? 3?

[______________Snardz]

OHH I got it now garzini! Thanks! So if your pissed about the OE patch you MUST be OE then right?! Can't believe i never thought of that...but wait, i just realized something. I'm not OE and i dont want the patch, all weapons equipped i can self buff them on...Hmmm, looks like your logic doesn't work here garz, sorry -=/

[_________Atroxengine]

Why nerf a class? It is a simple question really, because nerfing only makes you lose money AO. I rember the days of release you had potenial and you could of made this the "best" game. But with your current patches you will only make people leave. Engineers what are they good for? pets so why make it to where there class will be obsolete. Why don't you do the right thing and only make things better for other classes? Also how often do you see successful games such as DAoC and EQ nerf a class? Never do they might change a few things but never make a class so terible that no one will want to play them any longer. Also why do you want to go against what your customers want, so far every Engie i've meet has said this will make there game experince no fun. I don't know if you beleave in Western Philsophys but one we have is "The Customer Is Always Right."
Really do you want to lose more business because only around 40% of the orginal AO population still plays and usually you hear everyday in OOC of another fellow AO member quiting. I understand you fixing exploits but nerfing a class to the extent of people quiting don't you think it is a little extreme? Seriously give thought to it both sides can use buffs to cast pets right? so how is it a exploit it is a simple way of life it has been like this since release so why change it so long after? Also I mean think about this MP's rock it at lvl 120 they can self buff there self to cast a QL 200 pet and those Mochma's last forever is it fair to let a class buff 125 to a skill? that is about haveing 75 lvls added to your current lvl. How will the current patch balance the game for Engineers? I would hate to see so many people quit and you lose business.

This game had potenial but you never took care of the customer not once have I seen you listen to plee not to nerf a class. Do your research AO if you want to make money in life you have to please people and by making a large population of the poeple mad with OE is not the way to do it. Im sure not one offical will read my post but it is ok when you lose alot of people to this patch you will be the one out of money. Shot for success AO and listen to your large population of engineers.

I do understand it is your policy not to listen to the customers on patches, stop listening to the whinners and stop nerfing stuff before this game turns into a 1 or 2 super class game. One aspect of this game your ruining is "diversity" people like it so why limit it?

I seriously hope you give thought to my comments and I hope you do post. But im pretty sure you will not so I feel this speech on how to run a business is in vain. Maybe you should incorprate a voting system for customers to vote on stuff added to patch? See wha the polls say.

Best of luck to you Funcom but your future in the online industry is looking very VERY bleak.

[__________WyldeWayze]

One of the things that made AO a game different from the rest was the ability to do a little more then level grind. OE as a concept sets AO apart from every other stinking MMO out there. And as far as I am concerned their totally missing the boat by trying to work it out.

Think of it this way OE on the whole was fair. Albeit you had to have the knowledge and a bit of cash or a bunch of friends but ANYONE could OE if they choose to and thus it was fair. By trying to FIX OE they effectively screw 1\4 of their class base making the game patently UNFAIR.

In effect their undoing any good they could hope to accomplish by not "leveling the playing field" but instead turning 1\4 of it into a mire pit.

I didn't think it would affect my engineer cause he doesn't OE. He casts his bot with his own buffs and his own implants (not stepped). But one single ransack and he is down for the duration of the spell in pvp he is kissing the reclaim terminal its that simple. He has absolutely no chance in pvp against anyone who can debuff his nano skills UNLESS he runs an even or slightly higher pet. You CANT fight with an even pet even pets don't hold aggro. My engy hasn't much in the way of skill he is a shotgun user and of course we all know shotguns are the next to be beaten with the stick. So IMO he's done for before he's even started why play him?

My Fixer will never be able to wear top line GA he cant dual wield past about 145 and his weapon options at that time go down too two. So again he's done before he ever gets started.

MP nearly the same scenario but they have at least a chance because of their other attributes.

AS far as NT's they've always been the bastard child class in this game. I never mind a bitter NT post cause they have much to be bitter about.

Adventurers? lotsa fun till what 125? then they realize they shoulda been something else for the most part.

I just have to say I think its a terrible thing to gut a game that's just on the edge of being the best thing available.

Does anyone here think they would have one the best game award had they made this change 4 months ago?? I sure as hell don't.

[Hemi]

I was very stressed when I first read about the OE patch. My level, at the time, 35 Freshman Enforcer was pretty twinked. I was very good at PvP and was easily beating players 10 levels above me. So here I am with a QL153 Hammer and QL100ish Graft Armor thinking that this game is going to get boring. I mean I spent most of my time just trying to get on a weapon or piece of armor that was 1 QL better.

Well now I am lvl 80 and have really dropped the OE thought out of my plans. I now carry a Beam, which is at 24% OE right now but will be within the 20% in a level or two and my armor is easily within the 20% range.

Guess what? I can still solo red mobs of know level. I can solo 70% missions without that much of a problem and easily tank team missions QL120ish.

So for the people that are quitting because they feel they will be gimped because of the OE part of the patch, you probably never understood what you were doing in the first place.

For the PvP’rs out there, you still be able to get that title by buff “twinking”. Just go get that high level Essence and a HP buff w/HoT, keep you weapon at the 20% max and your armor and evades in check. Then go find that person that feels the OE patch will now allow them to get a title because….it’s now “fair”. If they don’t know the game and how other players work….they will be dead, and will probably be screaming exploit here the next day.

The game is still won by the smarter person, no matter what FC does.

Hemicrusher – Atrox/Beam Enforcer
Hemiduster – Atrox/MP

[_____________Altaire]

Cosmik, can you please ask the team what is going to be done about nano casting and the completely disabling attack nanos due to debuffs? Gun/weapon toting characters will never be completely handicapped from a debuff, but a caster still is. Yes, I know you can switch to lower class nanos, but gun users dont have to switch to another gun to keep firing. I think we should hope for some consistency on the OE issue.

Cosmik, can we count on you to inquire about this? I'm not sure if you already replied to this, but if you did, I haven't seen the reply.


Thank you

Altaire

[Turin]

Okay, you can call me dumb if you want, but I need to ask, since im unsure. The only dumb question is the one you didnt ask.

will OE be a strict 20/25% buffer? Or will it debuff you by 25% for every 20% over you are? I have a lvl 17 trader. He is WELL over 100% oe. at lvl 17, he has ql51 organic armour, a ql60 scope, and a ql70 Ithica. So I guess, will my weapons be reduced only to 80% effectiveness? Thus still leaving me 80%oe? Orwill it reduce me by -125%? ( thus in effect HEALING a monster, since I would have to do negative damage )


"You have been healed for 100 points by Bleyyss's Ithica!"

Anyone?

[Turin]

Originally posted by Altaire
Cosmik, can you please ask the team what is going to be done about nano casting and the completely disabling attack nanos due to debuffs? Gun/weapon toting characters will never be completely handicapped from a debuff, but a caster still is. Yes, I know you can switch to lower class nanos, but gun users dont have to switch to another gun to keep firing. I think we should hope for some consistency on the OE issue.

Cosmik, can we count on you to inquire about this? I'm not sure if you already replied to this, but if you did, I haven't seen the reply.


Thank you

Altaire

At higher lvls, the lower nanos you can use are useless.

Right now my individual heal does just over 1000 points. If I get an unmake Biometa, or a ransack/deprice cast on me, My max heal is around... 200-300.

How am I ever suppose to heal anything in a ql190+ mission with those kinda heals?

[Tannit]

Originally posted by Nianna

Doctors never had any need for overequipping in PvM unless they wanted to solo, which is completely futile in this game past about level 60 except for the pet classes (until the OE patch) and your adventurer is high enough level that you are spared from the effects of the OE nerf because you have already gained almost 75% of the possible levels and over 80% of the maximum possible skill points meaning you will always be within 20% (for things you have room to implant anyway).

You won't feel left out though. Funcom has also nerfed critical hit buffs to make sure that the ultra high level players get some love too.

Hsm. My 63rd level enforcer doesn't have any problem soloing, self-buffed, without implants! I intend to see just how far I can take that and do 50% missions comfortably.

One of the reasons I wanted to try that was OE, the other one was just to draw a line somewhere between reality and, well, the forums here.

I may have picked an good profession to make that particular point, but I see plenty of people out there with reasonable expectations that seem to be doing just fine.


Some of you people take extreme positions and are easily dismissed because of it. There is usually some kernel of usefulness, but I think you may be hurting the general argument. At least by %postings on the forum.

I don't see a whole lot of sympathy for the OE PvP twink. I think that is why a lot of innocent people are getting screwed right now. Unfortunatly, I think Funcom has made a bunch of the bad examples by creating an environment where you have to do that to prosper. I can see a certain amount of outrage when they send this conflicting OE message back to ya'll.

[SolemnV]

"How about you only remove high level heal pets for agent's that get the new nanos?"

Squick

*Burn On*

Hrmmm, maybe cause that would make all other agents suck while higher level agents before patch would have a HUGE advantage........ There was this little item in EQ called a manastone, groups wouldnt take ANY clerics that didnt have one, i wonder if that would happen in this scenario??

[______________Mltdwn]

Ok first I understand the point of the OE and think it's cool ONLY if they increase certain weapon damage. I know someone is probably saying "WTF do you mean?! They are doing this to reduce the high weapon damage, now you want them to increase it?"

Well let's look into the "Agent" matter. Yes we HAVE to OE period. Why? Hrm, let's see here, our HIGHEST damaging rifle does between 326-360 pts of damage MAXIMUM(that being the Stigma). Avg hit is more like around 90-150. So yes we MUST over-equip to be competitive, either that or go with something like a Lovemaker which requires that we increase a dark blue skill (shotguns) REAL high just to get into it (post OE patch of course, previously we just used wrangles to kick it up). Then of course something else is going to suffer whether it be concealment (which we have to have to do solo missions as we can't really even solo and survive a 50% mission) or nanos, whatever. It all just doesn't balance. Now we as agents will no longer be able to have a decent/competitive damage weapon. We will no longer be able to use Lovermakers unless we totally gimp our character in other ways, so we have to use standard sniper rifles again which don't do any real damage at all making us COMPLETELY useless to teams or solo. Thus the reason I am busting my arse and trying to get my agent as high as possible as fast as possible so perhaps he can get into QL200 stuff solo before the OE patch comes out.

Now that being said I'm not all about straight balance (i.e. a Agent should do as much Dmg as an Enf period), what I am about is reasonable balance though. While I as an Agent might get my arse handed to me in a one on one fight with an equal lvl enforcer I should ALSO be able to conceal and aimed-shot the enf to take him down a good 3/4 of his life if not a bit more (not one-shot kill him necessarily but deffinatly hurt the hell out of him). That is balanced. If they looked at class balance that way and gave ALL classes ways to take out others easily and fairly it would be balanced (i.e. Enf's can beat the crap out of people and take good damage. Agents can Aim Shot people and almost kill them in the first shot. NT's should be able to nuke and hurt ALOT of people at one time, but on the other hand are weak as hell overall. MA's can't necessarily take alot of damage but their dodge is so god awfull high they hardly get hit, but when they do get hit they're in trouble.) . Thos are all good ways to balance the game. But until they do that I think the OE patch is seriously going to harm 90% of the player classes.

-Daircy

[Val]

What about Prof. Jones Exp. Vest it has stat reqs and an NP check if you are not in the 20% bracket will just the AC drop or will the modifiers to Nano Skills drop too???

Please really need an answer to this one!!

[___________Morphenia]

Thank god I play a ma, I dont have to worry about over equipped wepons.
But my enforcer - god I am worried about her and if she will even be able to solo 50% missions after the oe patch

Ivonny, 80 ma
Ravenhild, 53 enf

[Tannit]

Originally posted by Ivonny
Thank god I play a ma, I dont have to worry about over equipped wepons.
But my enforcer - god I am worried about her and if she will even be able to solo 50% missions after the oe patch

Ivonny, 80 ma
Ravenhild, 53 enf

If you play your enforcer right, no problem.

I have a 64th lvl enforcer on test. No implants, solos 50% missions just fine self-buffed. It may not be the style of life you're used to, but it works.

I guess some people don't run headcracker and what-not all the time, while I do. If I've done my math right, the OE delta is smaller than the boost I get from my challenger to self-OE weapons.

As far as I can tell, other than the lack of implants, I play my enforcer just like everyone else does.

[_________MikeWeather]

"One of the things that made AO a game different from the rest was the ability to do a little more then level grind. OE as a concept sets AO apart from every other stinking MMO out there."

There's another game that has been out for a while that lets you overequip. A lvl 1 could wear EQ meant for a lvl 60. You just have to be the right class/race, no skill requirements or level restrictions. What is this game? Everquest.

Only recently have they put a few rudimentary limits on a few items that were really unbalancing the game, but you can still OE WAY more than yoiu ever could in AO.

[Bluecheeze2]

Well I don't totally agree with the OE Everquest comment above. Granted you could use weapons and armor at any level but they were tweaked so that your characters base stats, weapon stats, and armor stats affected how well you used the item. For example I used a polished granite tomahawk for my newbie character that hit very low until I built a few levels up. Becuase there are skills that are built like offense and 1 hand blunt to make swinging this weapon better. Also inregards to armor my mage could wear a shinging metallic robe but if my defense skill was not high that added AC would not help me tremendously. So I agree with the comment and I disagree. The problem with AO is the fact that your stats really don't seem to mean anything. If my shotgun skill is 650, I can wield a QL150 vektor where my hits seem to be the same if my rifile skill was 1000 or 200 once i have it equiped. Your skills don't seem to affect a lot of what you do like they should. I know in some areas they do like MA and evades and such but most of them seem to be raised just to meet requirements thus allowing a level 30 agent equip a QL110 rifle to hit for enormous damage. If the skills system in this game actually meant something OEing would not even be a concern. The only reason to OE would be to simply avoid buying another gun at higher levels. They are kind of moving towards that system now but they still have the wrong impression on how to make it work logically. Here is a better idea. Forget the 25%, 50% ... if you don't meet the requirements for something it is an exact percentage difference and not a scale. This may not be a popular idea but at least it makes more sense then what they are trying to do...

Drseverity

[_________________Zuh]

Anyway no ones cares really about OE, maybe 20 people will leave because of this, not too bad

and I don't play the game much since 3 months so..


Actually, I was working on a game (we were in a rush these weeks) and so if FC wanna cares about my opinion, your OE rules suck, I don't say someone has already made a better system, but I thought _you_ could make a good one

The code for this is not harder in any case, so I guess it's just the guys in charge of the gameplay who suck


I love your graphists FC