xp theory question

[_______________genoz]

This is a question on general MMORPG theory. I would like to hear from the AO community as well as the devs or reps on this one.

What is the rationale behind giving more xp to people who team than to people who solo?

For instance, if I can solo a mob and get 600 xp, how come 6 people can kill it and get more than 100 xp each, or any total xp more than 600?

From http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...articles/2140L:

What we never wanted to do was to make soloing more fun, more rewarding, and easier than teaming.... I still think teaming is more fun most of the time, and yields more experience points 90% of the time.

As for "more fun" and "easier", well, those make sense to me. Hanging out with your buds is more fun and easier IRL, so it makes sense to me in-game. As for "rewarding", if that refers to xp (or even loot, I suppose), wouldn't it be more 'natural' to split loot and xp in such a way that each member of the team gets less? In other words, there's some given amount of xp involved, and a team has to split it up.

The increased xp for team members also seems to violate the oft-referenced "risk-reward ratio".

If the answer is simply 'because we wanted to encourage a social, grouping environment', or something along those lines, that's fine, too; I just would like to hear it in so many words from a dev or rep instead of guessing.

Thanks,
Geno
AKA Gordin

[Nostra343]

>>For instance, if I can solo a mob and get 600 xp, how come 6 people can kill it and get more than 100 xp each, or any total xp more than 600?

The XP is lower if you are in team. But not 6 times lower.

If a mob gives 600 XP's, giving each teammate (of a full team) 100XP would negate any reward for teaming. Sure, you'd get less risk attacking that 600XP monster in a team, but considering there's nothing stopping you from attacking 6 100XP monsters solo, there would be no point in teaming.

So, XP given must be greater then 1/n (n=# of teammates).

My experience shows that XP given are in fact reduced, i.e. you definitelly do NOT get the full 600XPs from our theoretical mob.

As to how much - there I cannot help you in 100% factual terms.
I have measured that at very very low levels, the difference is quite drastic. I.e. mobs I would solo for 95XP's I would only get about 60XP's in a two-member team. It was barely worth teaming at all at that particular level, considering the relative ease of killing mobs either way.
Had I received 15XP's in a full team (1/6), teaming would be quite WORSE alternative then soloing, considering the overhead - time needed to find a mob, organize, start an attack, etc...

Btw, it appears to me though that the "loss of XP" is lesser at later levels. Teaming become more and more viable/necessary technique the higher up you go I think.

Again non factual, but I do believe XP gets distributed with either damage or levels as well. I've noticed that a usually 50k XP monster when I team with like levels, gives me 35k or so when I teamed with people at the edge of my teaming-level (i.e. about 25 levels higher then me)

So - to make teaming desireable, you have to give more XP's then simple 1/n.
How much more - depends on many factors. They obviously included a more complex formula that takes into account more factors then just number of teammates and XP of the mob.

But ultimatelly it depends on the nature of the game itself and designers intent as to whether to promote solo play or team play. AO designers, it appears to me, have stated that they do encourage team play over solo (while still making solo a viable, though not prefered method), hence the relativelly high XP received by members of a team in AO specifically.


edit:

>>I just would like to hear it in so many words from a dev or rep instead of guessing.

oh... re that, again I do believe that chief game designer has several times expressed his preference for social/team mode of play. not unusual, I presume, considering this is a "massivelly multi-player" game, as opposed to a Single-player. Check the archive somewhere off the main page for their articles, they might be helpful as to the intent of the designers (though perhaps not to the exact mechanics/formulas).

[Nikki.]

Nostra343
Not an argument :O)
Anyways its a little more than what you suggested. You forgot about the time saved which is a big addition to the exp per hour or EPH earned. In a team I can kill a mob get 35k have the mob dead in 15-30 secs and have zero chance of dieing.

Solo though it takes me upto 2 mnis if I am able to kill the mob. I get 65-80k for same mob and have a very real chance of dieing.

So if you doo all the math there is a real advantage. Of course I could care less :O) It seems fair enough.

What I dont like though is the fact people make so much more for fighting deep red mobs. Heck while I am pounding away to make 50k per kill some noob team 100 levels below the mob is making 100k+ per for the same mob.

Experience earned should be even across the board, without factoring in how hard it is to kill. HEHEHE or else give high level players 300k per dead Level 250 ACE :O) Anyways this is just my problem with EXP earned. Doesnt seem fair that not only do we have to earn more experience per level, but also get less experience per kill. Just doesnt seem fair to me :O(

[engelstein]

You get 66% exp with two members, down to 60% for 6. So if you make a team, fill it! :P

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

Experience is not a pie that you just cut up and adds to 100%. Experience is not just action, it's knowledge as well.

You and me are walking along, and we walk into an alleyway and some drug dealer pulls out a switchblade and jumps us. If you end up being the guy that wrenches it from his wrist, knees him in the crotch, and elbow him to the head... while I've done nothing... you've gained the following 'experience'

1) Be wary of people in Alleys
2) People can carry weapons and hurt you
3) Close Combat (disarming)
4) Hitting people in the head knocks em out...

Now, if I was there watching you do that, I've learned the traits 1, 2, and 4. I did not learn #3 really, but I have some idea.

My point is that there's some 'easy knowledge' that's shared and duplicates itself to fit outside the pie. If 50 people were with us and 1 person did that, there would be 49 people who've realized 1, 2, and 4, and you realized all 4 of them. There wouldn't be 50 people who gained 2% of the experience that was gained at that fight (i.e. alleys can be bad...)

That's why the xp in groups SHOULD naturally add up to more then 100% of the monsters experience value. You can't really do a perfect 6 way split unless you believe that action is the sole determiner of experience, and then you have no choice but to alllocate experience INDIVIDUALLY even in teams (i.e. like Dungeon Siege does)

[Raik]

Originally posted by Nostra343
If a mob gives 600 XP's, giving each teammate (of a full team) 100XP would negate any reward for teaming. Sure, you'd get less risk attacking that 600XP monster in a team, but considering there's nothing stopping you from attacking 6 100XP monsters solo, there would be no point in teaming.

Teams can tackle harder MOBs... the thing stopping me from killing 6x100 instead of 1x600 is time.

I never found myself in a team that actually killed MOBs I could solo for exp. Usually teams aim about 50% ahead of their QLs.

[Nostra343]

Um, but, exactly...

If you tackled a 600XP mob, and just received 100XP's...
(hypothetically; don't think of current situation, think of 1/6th of XP situation)

... I again claim that it would be JUST as efficient to solo, and kill a 100XP mob.

I mean, this is dark Red vs completely green (if not grey) mob kind of difference here (6 times the XP!). Surely we aren't disagreeing here?

And my point is that this would be the consequence of equal-division of Experience Points - it would actually be much faster to attack green mobs solo then to attack red mobs in teams, especially once overhead is considered...

I didn't think the point would be argued, but if you wish me to give approximate times to support my claim, I'd be happy to .

[Dauhuai]

Here I am adding to a discussion that I don't see why it is going on.

A. The developers have given their reason, it was quoted in the initial article.
B. If you don't like it then read Lodrin-Omni's post. How much better can it be explained.

Much as I hate to congratulate an Omni but good job Lodrin that was clear, concise and well put. Unfortunately with so many people reading this thread and sharing the xp from it evenly, I didn't learn a thing.

Randalpho
49th Level MP
I never solo, I have pets

[Nostra343]

I got as far as "knees him in the crotch" and then found it too painful to continue:P

Just kidding
It was a very well put post indeed .