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Thread: To Rebuild A Council

  1. #1
    Independent Reporters of Rubi-Ka Editor: IRRK's Avatar

    To Rebuild A Council

    To Rebuild A Council
    Korev Jurik

    ATHEN (IRRK) - Reporter Korev Jurik has arranged an interview with Commander "Caid" Nottoris, one person who seeks to rebuild what the Clans have lost: the Council of Truth.

    It was not too long ago when the Council of Truth spoke for the Clans, guiding them and ensuring peace and prosperity for northern Rubi-Ka. With their disappearance amidst rumors of a coup d'etat, groups ranging from the ICC to the Sentinels have stepped up to fill the void. None have succeeded. Perhaps that will now change.

    Korev Jurik: I suppose the best way to begin this interview would be with a brief overview of your plans to rebuild the Council of Truth?

    Caid: Alright. The clerical staff consists of myself, Ailish, Vixentrox, Windguaerd, Cogs, Tussa, and Foxferal. We are the group that has started this endeavour, and we are the ones that have been working as best we can to get a basis for the Council's goals in the future.

    Korev Jurik: What goals would these be?

    Caid: We have been having weekly meetings on creating the foundation for the Council of Truth. The goals we intend are... a democratic government for the clans, where every clan has a say. Each clan can have a say in the meetings, and in the decisions. We intend to bring back what government we had before, but with more ability of the smaller clans to take part, and have a say.

    Korev Jurik: This sounds like a noble purpose. How do you plan to deal with factions who may not want the Council to return?

    Caid: Like perhaps the Sentinels? Factions that might not want the Council of Truth to return, might be able to accept that having a seat on such Council might be more profitable for themselves. If that is not what they wish, the best thing I can say is we will have to accept their wants to not have the Council return. Not everyone will always agree.

    Korev Jurik: Do you have any plans in place for dealing with the Omni-Tek Corporation?

    Caid: Perhaps once we have the foundation in place, and a spokesman or woman, the option for opening up a dialog with Omni-Tek to perhaps repair the lost status of "official government of the clans". That is just a thought though, but opening up a dialog with them will most likely be a high priority once we have set up.

    Korev Jurik: Does this new Council of Truth have much support from Clan organizations such as the Endgame Coalition?

    Caid: Indeed it does, we continue to gain support from many clans all across Rubi-Ka. And should things go well with our structural creation, we hope to gain even more support.

    Korev Jurik: Who has shown their support so far?

    Caid: Tussa, the clan Assembly, Arion, and their leader Gimpenforcer, Metaltrader and his clan, Vitae Covenant, and that is just to name a few. I've even met a few Omni-Tek employees wishing to see the Council return.

    Korev Jurik: Do you have any members of the original Council of Truth signed on to this project?

    Caid: Radiman has expressed his thoughts on perhaps returning as spokesman, but we have had no contact from any of the larger clans who were members of the Council before the exodus. Nor have we had luck in contacting their leaders, either.

    Korev Jurik: You have attempted to open a dialogue with some of them, however?

    Caid: Yes. But to no avail, I'm afraid.

    Korev Jurik: Some of the names you mentioned earlier have appeared in arrest warrants recently put out by Omni-Pol. Have the warrants impeded your progress any?

    Caid: Actually, yes. There have been attempts to apprehend some of us in the vicinity of the ICC HQ. Though no one was apprehended, we will continue to move forward.

    Korev Jurik: Do you believe the warrants to be connected to your plans to rebuild the Council of Truth?

    Caid: I believe it might be possible. The clans are government-less at the moment. Omni-Tek sees us as nothing more than perhaps an annoyance.

    Korev Jurik: And if that changes?

    Caid: Then we must be doing something right.

    Korev Jurik: I see. Well, that takes care of the questions I had hoped to ask. Do you have any final comments?

    Caid: I have one: as long as there is hope within the hearts of the clans, there is always hope for the future. We won't stop until our goals have come to light.

    Korev Jurik: Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

    Caid: And you as well.


    In the end, we find ourselves seeing what may be a stabilizing factor in Rubi-Ka. The annulment of the Tir Accords has led to a resurgence in the seemingly perpetual war between Omni-Tek and the Clans. If the Council of Truth can indeed be reformed, perhaps that war will calm itself, and we can begin to get on with our lives.
    Last edited by Xnemth; Dec 13th, 2003 at 04:18:08.

  2. #2
    This endeavor will never succeed. The Clans are to barbaric to be able to form a stable democratic government. They WANT anarchy...it is what they are bred to believe in. And I sincerely doubt that Mr.Ross will be fooled into trusting their so-called government again; as the Old Earth saying goes, "been there, done that." If the Clans want us to accept their so-called government, they must cease all hostile activities against Omni-Tek, and cease the mining and exporting of notum. For that is the only way for them to prove the authority of their ruling body over the other Clans.
    Zack "Eternalforce" Craddock
    Professional soldier of fortune.
    Quote Originally Posted by dustynova
    ahhh Ao where the men are boys the women are men and the leets are very very nervous.

  3. #3
    So you want a war and total Omni-tek dominance then Eternalforce, you speak like a true Omni-Tek.

    But remember, who "made" the clans in the first place,
    Omni-Tek did, with theyre so called mining facilities that made many people suffer so much that they wanted freedom.

    And you can`t demand that clan are gonna lay down all sort of mining, that will only leads to more organized crimes, also when it comes to all clans are gonna cease fire against Omni-Tek employees, my guess that will be a one-way action only with Omni-Tek once agains trying to depress clans.

    And stop looking down at clansmen, we can do more then you ever imagine, how`d you feel like waking up in your jobe luxus apartment filled with those so called blood thirsty clans?
    My guess would be that you will get a better view when flying out of the window-

    *Enforcedman goes back to read the news and drink some hot coffe*
    Enforcedman - 158 - Enforcer - Squishy tanker
    Gunghot - 65 - Soldier - One man artillery with JAME -Original one and only-Created and twinked @ 11/1-04 (tm)

  4. #4
    Originally posted by Eternalforce
    This endeavor will never succeed. The Clans are to barbaric to be able to form a stable democratic government. They WANT anarchy...it is what they are bred to believe in. And I sincerely doubt that Mr.Ross will be fooled into trusting their so-called government again; as the Old Earth saying goes, "been there, done that." If the Clans want us to accept their so-called government, they must cease all hostile activities against Omni-Tek, and cease the mining and exporting of notum. For that is the only way for them to prove the authority of their ruling body over the other Clans.
    The clans most certainly can succeed. The CoT originally formed in 29396 and the people of Rubi-Ka enjoyed 63 years of peace between Omni-Tek and the clans.

    Although it did not endure forever, I consider the old CoT an outstanding success.

    Unfortunately, in 29459, a few clans launched attacks against Omni-Tek, over a monetary dispute. Alas, the original conflict may have been a concern about individual rights and working conditions, but the conflict of today is only about money.
    Max "Quool" Marsalis

  5. #5
    I cant wait.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  6. #6
    The issue of rebuilding the Council was already touched upon by myself as well in my most recent column to AO warcry.

    The War over Truth
    Clan Elder of The Pilgrims

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Eternalforce
    This endeavor will never succeed. The Clans are to barbaric to be able to form a stable democratic government. They WANT anarchy...it is what they are bred to believe in. And I sincerely doubt that Mr.Ross will be fooled into trusting their so-called government again; as the Old Earth saying goes, "been there, done that."
    Memo from: Andrew 'Boomtastic' Domtar

    To: Eternalforce

    Re: Attitude

    Mr. Eternalforce,

    By your words above I would have to go also by the Old Earth saying, "Man You a Hater!", do you know every Clansperson out there?

    I say this because of your comment about, "They WANT anarchy...it is what they are bred to believe in.". I was not bred that way, unless you are willing to say Omni-Tek bred me that way.. You see the begining of my life was in Omni-Tek, and then my eyes where opened by a nice clansman who showed me and my brother the twisted ways Omni-Tek works. Of course your corporation killed my brother and has tried to kill me a number of times but that is another story and I would hate to transgress..

    So you see Sir that you cannot just go throwing around that "we want war, blah, blah,blah", because some of us don't but have to because of people, maybe you maybe not, that don't want to give people the right to think for themselfs.

    One other thing I would like to point out is that it seems that Omni-Tek would not even want peace... Why do I say this? Well when it was made public that we wanted to restart the CoT, what was the first reaction Omni-Tek made? You sent out arrest warrants, "dead or alive", wow that really sounds like you want peace and the fighting to stop...

    Good Day to you Sir
    ~ Roger "Shadowset" Garanti (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Andrew "Boomtastic" Domtar (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Ta "Bloudless" Butcher (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Caviler "Cynotor" (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Chef "Ironox" (Member of the NLF)

    Public files on Shadowset
    Ironox and Cooking with Iron!

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Boomtastic

    One other thing I would like to point out is that it seems that Omni-Tek would not even want peace... Why do I say this? Well when it was made public that we wanted to restart the CoT, what was the first reaction Omni-Tek made? You sent out arrest warrants, "dead or alive", wow that really sounds like you want peace and the fighting to stop...

    Those arrest warrants are blatant fabrications made by a zealous and unethical clan reporter.

    The only thing those warrants did was raise the profile and influence of the very 'leaders' named in them. There is su****ion that perhaps those same 'leaders' requested to be featured as wanted by Omni-Pol.

    Do people who would use such manipulations deserve the trust of the people of Rubi-Ka?
    Max "Quool" Marsalis

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Quool


    Those arrest warrants are blatant fabrications made by a zealous and unethical clan reporter.

    The only thing those warrants did was raise the profile and influence of the very 'leaders' named in them. There is su****ion that perhaps those same 'leaders' requested to be featured as wanted by Omni-Pol.

    Do people who would use such manipulations deserve the trust of the people of Rubi-Ka?
    Memo

    To: 'Quool'

    From: Andrew 'Boomtastic' Domtar

    Re: reply to your statements

    Ok first of all lets start here and go on from there.. Now I hope you read that good bacause now we go here... strange looks like the real thing.

    Now I know you might be thinking what does the second thread have to do with this? Well you are quoted saying , "Those arrest warrants are blatant fabrications made by a zealous and unethical clan reporter.", but infact if you look at this 4th posting you will see that 'Meister' the Omni-Pol President is quoted saying, "I can assure you that all warrants will remain active... Unfortunately recent patrols in Athen and Tir did not yield any result, but as usual, Omni-Pol will not rest until the goal has been reached..."

    It might just be me but it sounds pretty real if the President of Omni-Pol says they are real, I think maybe you should check all your facts before attacking a clanperson...

    Second of all I know and have worked with these leaders, and as one of them just happens to be MY leader, I really think that, "..requested to be featured as wanted by Omni-Pol." is a bunch of bul.. err... noise started by people that don't want to see the Clans remake the CoT . I mean really come on where do you get this stuff?

    Please I would suggest you respond when you have facts and stop trying to start trouble..

    Thank you,

    Andrew
    ~ Roger "Shadowset" Garanti (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Andrew "Boomtastic" Domtar (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Ta "Bloudless" Butcher (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Caviler "Cynotor" (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Chef "Ironox" (Member of the NLF)

    Public files on Shadowset
    Ironox and Cooking with Iron!

  10. #10
    Fact: Ivan Sergeyitch is the Director of Omni-Pol.

    Fact: OT department directors do not receive holo-posts of warrants.

    Fact: Holographic wanted posts have never been displayed in Omni cities or outposts.

    Fact: Noticiero's column has been described by his employer as "a breath of fresh air with great fictitious investigative reports".

    Fact: Radiman is not wanted by Omni-Pol or suspected of any wrong-doing.

    Fact: I, for one, have su****ion concerning the motive for posting the warrants. Therefore, the statement concerning the presence of su****ion is true.

    Fact: I support the development of a new CoT. One of my concerns is that those put in a position of trust deserve it.

    Fact: Noticiero's reporting of fictitious warrants is in violation of ICC regulations. Steps will be taken to have them removed from the gridnet.
    Max "Quool" Marsalis

  11. #11
    Facts originally posted by Quool

    Fact: Ivan Sergeyitch is the Director of Omni-Pol.
    - Where is he then and are you speaking for him now? I see a post from the PRESIDENT of Omni-Pol.. I think if he had gotten other orders from his "Director" he would not have said what he did..

    Fact: OT department directors do not receive holo-posts of warrants.
    - Are you and Omni-Director? If not how do you know they did not recieve them?

    Fact: Holographic wanted posts have never been displayed in Omni cities or outposts.
    - Infact I have flown into Omni held areas and have seen these fliers so I think you might just be mistaken...

    Fact: Noticiero's column has been described by his employer as "a breath of fresh air with great fictitious investigative reports".
    - I am not his employer but I would like to call Noticiero to step foward, or his employers and tell the public that this is fiction.

    Fact: Radiman is not wanted by Omni-Pol or suspected of any wrong-doing.
    - Did you not read that post I gave you? I will quote from it again from the President of Omni-Pols own words, "Henry Radiman is still the primary target and his capture - preferrably alive - is worth a lot to Omni-Pol." so how can you say that he is not wanted?

    Fact: I, for one, have su****ion concerning the motive for posting the warrants. Therefore, the statement concerning the presence of su****ion is true.
    - But where is the fact behind this? what facts do you have for this su****ion? I am sory not to be mean but I work with these people andI really find it hard to swallow that this is a sham...

    Fact: I support the development of a new CoT. One of my concerns is that those put in a position of trust deserve it.
    - Then Sir I suggest you show up to the CoT meetings and voice your concerns, this is a open group and they listen to all concerns and opinions there..

    Fact: Noticiero's reporting of fictitious warrants is in violation of ICC regulations. Steps will be taken to have them removed from the gridnet.
    - I would respond to this but I better not, I don't want to be rude.
    ~ Roger "Shadowset" Garanti (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Andrew "Boomtastic" Domtar (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Ta "Bloudless" Butcher (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Caviler "Cynotor" (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Chef "Ironox" (Member of the NLF)

    Public files on Shadowset
    Ironox and Cooking with Iron!

  12. #12
    OOC:

    My understanding is that the formation of a new CoT and Henry Radiman's participation in that effort is a part of the official storyline.

    My RL impression of the information so far is that the arrest warrants, Omni-Pol's policy regarding the matter, and Meister's position with the 'official' Omni-Pol is not part of the official storyline.

    I would appreciate being able to participate in IC debate without being contradicted by spoofed information.

    Although the advice is geared toward in-game events, the following link should apply to IC discussion in this forum as well:

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...rticles/1680L/

    I would like to emphasize:



    Should not alter the existing political hierarchy (who leads the various departments of Omni-Tek, or the major Clans, etc.)

    Should not contradict the main story

    Then again, perhaps I missed the message where official storyline material was now going to be released via AOVault.

    The original interview posted by IRRK seems to be a major faux pas, as the question regarding the arrest warrants does imply that they have some sort of official standing.

    Is this the way it is going to work now? Shall I make arrangements to post articles about actions the CoT, Sentinals, Pilgrims, et al have done?
    Max "Quool" Marsalis

  13. #13
    -ooc-

    I was just following the treads as posted here on this forum.

    I did not mean to offend. And if I did I am sorry..

    I do see that the CoT might be part of the official story line, but once again I was just following the threads so...

    Again if I offended you or anyone I am sorry and will now just sit back and keep my mouth shut

    Andrew
    ~ Roger "Shadowset" Garanti (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Andrew "Boomtastic" Domtar (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Ta "Bloudless" Butcher (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Caviler "Cynotor" (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Chef "Ironox" (Member of the NLF)

    Public files on Shadowset
    Ironox and Cooking with Iron!

  14. #14
    OOC

    No problem.

    I did not mean any offense to Noticiero either, but was only trying to reconcile his actions with the main storyline.

    This seems to be caused by the lack of official storyline overall. This adhoc mixing of official and unofficial plot developments is getting problematic throughout this forum.

    This confusion is an impediment to participation.

    I am attempting to start a dialogue with Cz concerning it.

    I honestly believe no Omni player was involved in the creation of the Omni-Pol arrest warrants. Most clan RPers would give an arm and a leg to be officially 'Wanted' by Omni-Pol, imho. Am I wrong?
    Max "Quool" Marsalis

  15. #15

    [OOC] ......... yeah ........

    Why is it that I got to step in OOC when everyone and their mother knows I hate going OOC?...

    Regardless...

    ======================================
    <<Fact: Ivan Sergeyitch is the Director of Omni-Pol. >>

    The post from the President of Omni-Pol...if you're talking about Meister...he IS the current leader of an omni org that has taken the name Omni-Pol, and they have stated several times over the years that they are a sub-divison (or sub-department) of Omni-Pol and that Ivan Sergeyitch IS the Director of OP.

    <<Fact: OT department directors do not receive holo-posts of warrants. >>

    Lets say there is a warrant for Bin Laden soon after 9/11 (sorry for the comparison, I'm american by the way)...do you think the Director of the CIA and FBI will NOT have the warrant on his desk? People don't get on the Top #10 Most Wanted list anywhere without the people in charge approving such list. It's a matter of chain of command, anywhere. That fact was put there based on common sense.

    <<Fact: Holographic wanted posts have never been displayed in Omni cities or outposts. >>

    The 'Gridfeed' movies Funcom released before NW went live were taking as broadcast, but you never saw them in-game now did you? When it comes to roleplaying, you need to take a step back and take things IC, nobody can REALLY hug or shake anybody's hand in-game...but you see "Player1 shakes Player1's hand" or "Girl gives Boy a hug"...same concept.

    <<Fact: Noticiero's column has been described by his employer as "a breath of fresh air with great fictitious investigative reports". >>

    SOME of Noticiero's reports ARE ficticious, for the entertainment of the roleplaying community, THAT was said OOC, OUT-OF-CHARACTER. Yet it is being used IC. He spends hours making this reports, some which gave roleplayers ideas to create an event or storyline based on such reports or inspired by them.

    Mr. Noticiero has proven to be resourceful, and has contacts in the roleplaying community that provides him facts on in-game events. Some of those sources ask for anonimity, for their own personal reasons.

    <<Fact: Radiman is not wanted by Omni-Pol or suspected of any wrong-doing. >>

    Well you need to go check the AO Timeline, the issues from Voice of Freedom, Rubi-Ka Times, and within a day you'll find that Omni-Pol has been wanting to arrest Radiman for some time now related to the investigation of the Council of Truth's relation to the Dust Brigade and some funds that was linked to them.

    <<Fact: I, for one, have su****ion concerning the motive for posting the warrants. Therefore, the statement concerning the presence of su****ion is true. >>

    That's your opinion, but many omni roleplayers have taken the warrants as-is and started interacting with clan players acordingly...in other words interaction between both sides has increased a bit due to this, and more interaction between players is ALWAYS good.

    <<Fact: I support the development of a new CoT. One of my concerns is that those put in a position of trust deserve it. >>

    Support, good. Concerns...those who are part of the Clerical Staff are experienced roleplayers who have been in AO for YEARS, they've been behind many storylines, plots and have been THE people responsable for what is taking place now. They work harder than you can imagine to get the CoT project to succeed. They got ARK to listen and work with them, their goal is to bring the storyline BACK to life for everyone's enjoyment.

    <<Fact: Noticiero's reporting of fictitious warrants is in violation of ICC regulations. Steps will be taken to have them removed from the gridnet. >>

    Already explained, unless you're the Director of one of the main OT Departments...you can't remove a pixel from a holo-post.
    ======================================
    Some people (not saying you in specific) don't understand that those involved in the project have spent many many hours talking, working, communicating with ARK & FC as well as worked online to build a believable and realisting CoT which can be implemented in-game to further the storyline. And based in my previous experience, there is VERY LITTLE room for error, VERY LITTLE. ARK won't spend ANY resources they will see as a waste of their valuable time, ARK is run by volunteers...you think people who volunteer are going to WASTE time when they can help other players? So those who are in the Clerical Staff are working hard to prove that a CoT run by PLAYERS can succeed.

    My personal point of view...is that it can be done. If the roleplaying community as a WHOLE can prove to ARK & FC that player-run structures DO work, then perhaps they'll consider for omni side players to have a 'Board of Directors' for the omni leaders to follow the corporate laws and regulations and follow their CEO's orders, and for neutrals to have a 'Neutral Assembly' to allow the neutrals to administer their outposts.

    But before running, we got to crawl, then walk...and once we're ready we can run!

    I got faith in the roleplaying community from all factions to get things going...and on ARK on seen our efforts.

    End of OOC...thank god.
    Last edited by Windguaerd; Dec 14th, 2003 at 02:47:14.
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  16. #16

    Wait one minute!

    I'm the #1 Reporter on Rubi-Ka for the last 8 months!

    I got 23 interviews with notable figures and leaders from all 3 factions since May 5th, 29477.

    Also 17 investigative reports since July 11th, 29477. My sources for the reports are reliable, and quite expensive if I may say so myself.

    Some sources have requested for their names to be withheld, because they would face consequences (some deadly) if their names are revealed, and I must protect my sources of information.

    As stated in my column A Rubi-Ka Exclusive!:

    "Here you will read the EXCLUSIVE interviews with important and notable figures and the investigative journalism I manage to get on Rubi-Ka. I will do my best to reveal the true nature of Rubikan personalities from all factions, and report on important events and stories across the planet."

    My life has been threatened many times to avoid something to be published on the gridnet, and many people (from all three sides) have called me every name under the suns.

    I think it's time I take a vacation, there is only so much I can take, and I think I've reached my limit.

    Good day to you all!

  17. #17
    While Ivan Sergeyich is indeed the Director of the overall Omni-Pol and I report to him, he does not have to decide on every matter on his own. Radiman has been wanted by Omni-Pol since a long time and so far we did not have an opportunity to arrest him, as he is always surrounded by a considerable amount of clan citizens, wherever he goes.


    The warrants released by Noticiero were not meant to fall into clan hands, but apparently they did. And he made them public. It will not change anything whatsoever. We do not focus on the "lesser" clan leaders right now, as Radiman is still out there somewhere.

    The Council of Truth has fallen for a reason and if we can help it, we will prevent the reformation of it under any and all circumstances, unless Philipp Ross decides that the clans shall have their tiny and unimportant council back.
    Director "Meister"
    President, Omni-Pol
    Level 207 Omni-Tek Dictator
    Meister's Reinforced Suit - Bureaucrats may be gimps, but at least we know how to look good.
    Account Created: 2001-06-27 23:07:32

  18. #18
    A group of clanners that share in a cooperative existance with Omni-Tek aided in the retrival of the stolen data for the nanomage environmental suit project. Had they not helped the merc group responsible would have surelly relocated or even have destroyed the remaining data along with the prototype.

    I believe at the least, their speed and assistance warrants a reexamination for the warrants out for the clanners involved. A list will be available upon request. Meanwhile, the corporate saboteurs that escaped and are now under the protection of a disloyal Omni organization. Warrants should be issued to those employees responsible for bringing this about in the first place.

    Regards,
    Administrator Charles 'Kithrak' Houston
    Omni-Admin
    Charles 'Kithrak' Houston - Equipment
    Administrator, Omni-Admin
    Bringing the politics of Rubi-Ka to life!

    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster....when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..." -Friedrich Nietzsche-

    "By denying support to the possibility of peace, the Council of Truth is guranteeing an outcome of war."-Administrator Houston-

  19. #19
    Provide us with the data you have regarding this, and we will see what we can do.
    Director "Meister"
    President, Omni-Pol
    Level 207 Omni-Tek Dictator
    Meister's Reinforced Suit - Bureaucrats may be gimps, but at least we know how to look good.
    Account Created: 2001-06-27 23:07:32

  20. #20
    Hmmm. Based on experiance I would say Meister's branch of OP is shall we say... Beneath the task of getting these crimanals found and brought to justice. Perhaps a more sudtle approach is needed. Walking in and shouting we want so and so doesn't exactly make people want to give these criminals up or do anything besides perhaps hinder the investigators. No offense to OP. But Meisters methods are crude. Perhaps an abduction is in order? Hell we might even find out some of the people on the list is wrong. And wouldn't we feel stupid when it's proven that way and we had to fight our way in aprahand them and then fight our way out when they had nothing to do with it. Suggestions to solve these issues are welcome. And there is always Meister's way. Just because something is crude doesn't mean it doesn't work. Also. You never know. Meister might suprise us.

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