"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[matros]

Here's my two cents on the topic.

Overequipping. I think that overequipping should be allowed to the certain degree for several reasons.

1) It helps the economy. An MP will naturally have a higher nanoprogramming skill then a soldier so there is no harm in the mp assembling implants for the soldier and getting paid for it and soldier then using said implants and buffs to equip his weapons or armor.

2) It keeps the game fun. If everyone around same level had same level weapons and armor the game would become boring. When you are in PVP you want certain degree of andrenaline rush and that comes from knowing that your opponent even though he might be below your level could be overequipped and thus can kill you.

Overall I think that another check can be put in place to prevent extensive overequiping. I am talking about quality level. Meaning I will not be able to equip the item if the item's ql exceeds my level by more then say ten levels. I am saying keep the ten level difference to allow for implants buffs rich friends etc etc. After all you want to have some sort of society so allow for societal interaction like connections and personal bankers.

Also in case of buffs and equipping armor and weapons if you equipped your armor using buffs it's only appropriate that when your agility or stamina buff runs out you should face the concequenses. I would say in case of armor reduce characters speed and rate of attack when the buff runs out. Again you can work some degree of flexbility here for example there'll be no adverse affects if I only needed 3 additional points of stamina to equip my armor and I used buff to equip it. Same thing could work for weapons.

As far as cheating goes well there are some grey areas here

Clearly duping and exploiting other game flaws is illegal and should be punishable by law. But what about money issues. If I have two characters one is a high level soldier and the other is a low level mp and I transfer some credits from the wealthy soldier to a newbie mp to by some uber stuff for the mp am I cheating? Afterall I earned that money and I don't feel like earning it again same goes for rich friends.

Also about mission running. After the latest patch mission mobs are acting weird again I spent about 2.5 hours last night trying to kill a mob about my level, which is 50, without any success. I have a very nicely equipped atrox soldier so I should have be able to kill that mob. Before you tell me that I am cheating here are the stats LVL 56 Nova Flow LVL 55 tank armor lvl 55 omnipol armor AC's around 1200 HP around 1400. I've never used a dup or abug to equip those items. Used buffs and implants only .

Until mobs in missions are balanced people will try to run through missions to get some credits because they don't want to spend 3 hours in a missions to get misery 15k and useless nano, which brings me to the next topic, economy.

To prevent credit harvesting in missions you guys need to fix the economy. 1) In missions offer more rare items like good armor or weapons as a mission reward. Catch is that item is only given to you if you receive a token. This will encourage more people actually clear the missions. 2) fix "exchange rate" in shops. By that I mean that there is no way that an item sold by the shop to you for 30k should be bought by the shop from you for only 2k. If shops are offering more money for loot more people will be running and clearing the missions because it is easier then sit all day on the shopping channel trying to sell your loot. I would say that you should be able to sell item to the shop for about 60% of its sale value. Differentiate loot from mobs in mission areas from mission loot from mobs in the open to encourage people to clear the mission. Of course having player sale terminals instead of shopping channel will help too.

Oh well those are my $.02 on the topic

[__________ChrisF0001]

Apologies in advance for the excessive length!

A lot of people have been asking, 'If we weren't supposed to overequip, why are there implants and buffing nanos?'

I think this is a very important question, and it's worth considering from all sides. What is buffing there for? Come to that, what is de-buffing there for? In fact, when it comes down to it, what are the skill requirements on equipment there for?

A lot of people believe that the existance of buffs proves that overequipping was intended all along as a part of the game. For my part, I'm not so sure... Let me explain.

There seems to be some confusion over how much effect current skill level has on combat effectiveness: that is, how much 'worse' will an over-equipped character become between their fully-buffed state when they equipped their gear and their 'normal' state, when the buffs wear off and/or they swap out the relevant implants. Examining the evidence, from what people have posted about this, skill level does indeed have some effect: but we can see also that the effect that skill level has on overall combat performance is relatively small compared to the effect of the QL of the weapon. Why? Because if the effects of these things were reversed in importance, i.e. skill had more effect on damage output than weapon QL, overequipping would not work as a strategy. Highly optimised characters wouldn't invest all that money in equipping high QL weapons: they would be spending it getting continually buffed, trying to keep their skills as high as possible for as long as possible. This seems to be what, for example, EQ is like: the buffing classes get a lot of custom, just powering people up again and again.

I'd like to raise another point as well. What are the skill requirements on equipment actually there for? Consider armour in particular, since there's no equivalent to 'attack rating' that affects its performance once equipped (at least at the moment). Why require high levels of certain stats to wear the stuff? Obviously, they are there to stop people who don't meet certain criteria from wearing it. Think about this for a moment. The whole point of separating skill level from character level as equipment requirements seems to be to allow for flexibility in character development: to wear the good armour, you have to invest some of the potential of your character in the ability to wear armour. Different breeds and classes find different things easy or hard, so people who want to play the game in a certain way can choose to skew their characters in different directions, and this will ultimately create variety in the game: nobody can be good at everything. That, I believe, is the theory behind the original design.

So, what about those skill / stat requirements on equipment? I'll probably get a lot of flak for saying this, but as far as I can see they are there to stop overequipping. I mean this in a very general sense: a level 1 character shouldn't be wearing armour intended for a level 100 character. (After all, the level system, and the QL system of equipment, exist to give the players incentives to play the game.) The designers could have done this based on level, but they chose to do it by skill instead, to give people more flexibility. That's why implants exist, too: invest some money, tweak your character some more. The nano-clusters can only be fitted to certain implants, so the player again has to choose which direction to skew their character in: sure, this arguably allows people to equip things that are slightly 'above their level', but implants have skill requirements too, again, to stop characters from getting too much of an edge too early. It's all quite simple, on paper, and theoretically everything should be fine.

But, we can see, it didn't work properly. Nothing came out balanced. I worked as a game programmer once: we spent maybe four years trying to balance three 'classes' with perhaps fifteen or so weapons between them, and to this day I'm still not convinced that we got it right. AO has, what, 48 class/breed combinations, and hundreds of weapons? It's a tremendously ambitious project. Early release or not, they couldn't possibly have got it right in internal testing, and once it went live there were far more players putting huge ammounts of time into playing the game.

We can see what's been happening... People are levelling a lot faster than they were supposed to. None of the weapons are balanced, with one or two types in each class being used to the exclusion of all others. The 'combat' classes are unbalanced when they fight each other... And, the point of this rant, equipment QL is far too important, and skill / stat level is not important enough. The 'bar' of intended QL of equipment versus character level has turned out to be in the wrong place. The 'con' system for measuring the relative power of mobs to characters has been completely thrown out of balance... And so it goes on.

So, what point am I trying to make? I don't think overequipping was intended at all. In theoretical terms, without any actual numbers, AO looks very much like 'EQ in space', and that, I think, is where the buffing / debuffing nanos came from. Traders weren't supposed to hang around in the cities helping people into their armour, they were supposed to be hanging around near the hunting grounds, at zone borders and in the remote outposts, shouting 'SKILL WRANGLES FOR DONATIONS' across the zone. Players were supposed to find entertainment in getting hold of the best equipment they could, yes, but I don't think that was ever intended to go beyond maxing out the base skills with IP and then getting one set of implants, and sticking with just that one set for the next few levels.

Just my theory, of course...

[______________Yazule]

Summary
To sum up but a few of the many inputs I would like to get:

Should we do a pre-emptive strike on the exploiter community?

How hard and in what ways do YOU think we should crack down on people who exploit?

How should we handle over-equipping?

1) I dont understand pre-emptive strike on the exploiter community, but you should ban all accounts on that credit card or people will continue to exploit.

2) Your current system of three strikes and your out is reasonable, but known exploiters should be watched more regularly

3) Overequiping is a hard thing to pin down. My enforcer at level 90ish could SELF ARM a Q166 Hammer and Q130 beam. As I switch them out I didnt even use challenger and could have easily armed a Q200 Hammer with that nano. Am I over-equipted? I say no, did it myself with no extra buffing, just smart implants and self buffs. I dont see overequipting a problem after about level 50 or so, but low level characters can overequip like mad using other buffs. Plus if people overequip at low levels they will just get levels faster, making it harder for them to overequip. The people you need to worry about are the level 8 characters super overequiped that never level so that they can be "k3w1" and own in pvp.

I say leave equipting alone, it is not that big of an issue and you guys have to work ona lot more first. Wait to deal with this topic.

This is a long thread and I have to say I did not read it, just the article, and I wont read replys so no need to flame me, I wont see it.

[Maximilian]

Right, ChrisF0001.
I liked your writing and hope to bring it a little more to the 'official's' attention with this tiny little comment.

One clear sentence: The actual system is not skill based but ql based. You got the right equipment, you rule!
This is not the way it was planned/announced, or?

Btw. I confess the sentence with the number of responses - Sorry.

So long,

Max(imilian)

[__________Monstajugz]

Over-equipping / Twinking should be left alone as it is, unless exploiting was involved in the process. The whole concept of buffing / implants was for over-equipping in the first place, why remove it now.

In my opinion, there is no fair way to remove over-equipping. It's too late. I think funcom would lose most of its dedicated fan base, because the over-equipping achievers are the most loyal fans.

Lastly, even with ridiculously over-equipped gear monsters are impossible. So with equipment at only our level, how are we supposed to handle them?

Anarchy Online has been around for way too long for any drastic changes. Minor tweaks and fixes are ok, but fixes that change the core mechanics of gameplay, it's too late for that.

By all means, ban exploiters, do dupe checks etc. But IP resets, un-equipping items into inventory, nerfing of over-equipped items? It's not going to work.

As it said on Godager's article, funcom would leave a bugged feature in if it would make gameplay more fun right? Is that why funcom made unnecessary changes in bikinis (now social armor)? I don't see how getting rid of over-equipping would make this game fun at all.

Bottom line is:

>> It's way too late to change core mechanics in gameplay. <<

Monstajugz
120 OT Agent

[_______________Xente]

The first question to ask is:

Why do high level weapons and armor have requirements in the first place?

I believe that stat requirements are there because they say what skill level is required to effective "use" the weapon. Not simply "equip" the weapon. Consider sledgehammers - is equipping a QL50 sledge going to really be that different than equipping a QL150 sledge? I don't think so. The QL150 may be made of a harder material, have better balance, etc. This is why you need the stat requirement to use it. Consider real life - the first skill you learn with a weapon is how to hold it! The QL of an item *can't* mean only the skill required to simply equip it, it makes no sense.

So why should a temporary buff allow a player to *permanently* use a weapon thats way too high QL? Consider this - if equipping a weapon truly is the most basic skill, how come once the buff wears off you can't even unqeuip/requip it, but you can still actually use it to full effectiveness? This completely stands the notion of quality on its head!

The solution is to take each weapon and determine what percentage of the attack bonus is due to basic weapon properties (e.g. the sword is sharper) and what percentage is due to the skill of the person (e.g. the balance of the sword is better, so a higher skilled person can take advantage of it). Once the buff wears off, all bonuses due to the second factor wear off as well.

--Xente

[xbmspec]

"You are a lvl 40 char with a calculated PvP level of 70. You can then PvP against players with level or PvP level in the lvl 40 - 70 interval (or maybe 35-75?).


This will make PvP:ing much more interesting, because supertwinked players can no longer be completely safe. While they will still dominate against players their same level(not PvP level) they will be a taget for higher higher level chars. "

(Page 4) Dont Remember Name.

Now theres a intresting idea for all them over equiped twinks!
Sorry. Havent read all the others posts yet. (18 Pages)

[______________Blanch]

I have ql 200 stigma equipped I think I'm lv 74 now. I go in mission fight green mob (which green usually means easy kill) I have hard time even killing this mob. Now imagine I cannot equip ql 200 stigma anymore I have equip like ql 130ish one how much of fun time you think I will have against green mob now? Another thing do you honestly think that I have just tons leftover lower ql stuff to equip.

[_______________Murad]

Overequiping is a fun part of the game. Funcom included buffs and allows them to be casted on other players. If they consider this a problem then it is one that they set up.

Now I think that overequiping by 30ql should not be a problem. Perhpaps after this there could be a penalty that figures like this. Every 5 ql you overequip you onle get 1 ql of benefit.

For example a level 50 wants to overequip a gun by 30. No penalty.

A level 50 wants to equip a level 100 gun and assuming they can get the needed buffs the formula works like this.

ql80 (30 level no penalty) + 1/5 of remaining ql which is 20/5 or an additional 4 more ql. So in total the ql 100 weapon is as effective as a ql 84 weapon.

Here is another look at the formula

a level 50 wants to equip a 150 weapon

ql80 + 1/5 of 70 = 94 total benefit. The 150 weapon in this case acts like a ql 94 weapon. Some benefit to overequiping but not the full 150.

This formula makaes overequiping beneficial but not really very much after 30 ql. People won't be nerfed and equiping nano's will still be useful.

Overequiping is a fun part of the game. Lets not ruin this. Otherwise all of the characters are just going to be clones.

[Doctorkain]

The entire following argument doesn't apply to smart players that like to perfect their characters. You need to realize that while you're equiping things over your level, alot of this isn't talking about you - it's talking about the people whom hop implants massively over their levels, equip things well over their level, then go around screaming about how everyone is jealous and their character should be left alone:

I have a level 60 MA with level 127-130 implants (intended to be 125, ended up there due to cluster quality levels). Cost 2.6 million for the implant set.

I used implants to get those in. I implanted lower level implants with the specific intent of using them to up my stats enough to put in implants I couldn't - and then those implants filled the requirement for other implants.

Example? Treatment not high enough to fit that level 90 imp in? Missing 30 points, even after 20 genera buff, the Omni Med suit, the +80 doc buff, and the +100 treatment clinic buff? Just pop a 60 shining treatment in, and pop that level 90 right in. What? The imp goes in the head slot? (location of the shining treatment) No problem, just right-click it, and the game will do the skill check before swapping.

The implants I used to get those implants in cost another 200-300k. I've got various other equipment you can onyl buy from other players or find in missions, I've got a Yalmaha, blah ble blah blah.

And you no what I say?

Nerf it all. Kill it all. Destroy all that overequipping I did. Hours of work, down the drain, and I am asking you, FunCom, to do it. All you overequiping whiners - come on, tell me I'm jealous of your mad l33t overequip. Tell me I didn't take 2 days cluster hunting just for the imps, let alone my Zenith Taichis. Tell me I'm trying to nerf you and only, and how I don't deserve to be as uber as you because I didn't take the time. Tell me that my opinion isn't credible, even though I did it too.




Would you other players like to know why?

The game's balance is a joke because there's -no- limit to a player's power at whatever level they are at. The player could be an NT - not able to overequip very well... he could be a solider, equiping a level 200 Nova Flow at level 60 for fun... or he could be a level 90 enforcer 100% capable of self-buffing and skilling himself into that level 145 hammer with no problems.

The game can't tell, so... eh, that could be an enforcer out there, so the monster cons green. I guess if you're a class that can't surpass your per-level power (the NT as an example) by far, that's your problem.

I hear all the overequipers whining incessantly here that this is the way the game was meant to be played. That they spent 14.9 trillion on implants, buffs, and stuff, so they shouldn't be nerfed. Any time anyone else suggest that this is imbalanced, they scream 'jealousy', and hurl insults like mad, trying to keep their personal own character from being downgraded at all costs.

Here's the big catch: If you didn't scream 'jealousy' and spray insults like a skunk stenching an enemy, that doesn't apply to you.

Players truely don't want overequipping nerfed because the game's balance is a joke - that agent above talking about how he has to equip a ql200 stigma to kill greens - he knows how it is. The designers trying to compensate for overequiping had to over-power the mobs, and while it works ok from levels 1-65, after that it gets progressively more of a joke. My level 60 MA didn't equip those implants to become uber, she equiped them to survive.

So you know what needs to be done?

-Nerf overequiping, period. If they don't have the skill, it's red and disabled. Nobody will be able to buff into a ql110 set of comp lit implants, put on the belt and NCUs, then take the implants out and replace them. Then put in str/sta implants, put on two concrete cushions, then get IC, Essence of Behemoth and equip ql75 OmniPol Elite at level 45.

You people who put so much effort into perfection? This doesn't change a thing - you'll still be able to tweak and perfect your amazing set of implants, you'll be able to find armor right on the edge of your limits, and you'll be able to use any weapon -which you can meet the requirements of any time you wish to fight-. Level 60 enforcers will likely be able to keep ql 100 sledges on, -if they invested the IP into getting headcracker buffs for themselves-. If they purchased and made the awesome implants, and then LEFT THEM IN. If they just paid everyone to stand there and buff them... sorry, you didn't invest the IP, the time, or the effort to get and keep the implants. No go, your equipment is disabled when the buffs end.

It will be a matter of skill, time, and thought... not just throwing money everywhere until you get the buffs and implants to put it on, then take them all off once you've got the equipment on.

-Implants can not have their requirements met by OTHER IMPLANTS.

This is important. I can hop my treatment massively over my level by using Shining, Bright, and Faded to fill the requirements for even bigger Shining, Bright and Faded treatment implants. It's a joke. The same can be done for the stat requirements - hop up your agility with a Shining Nimbleness, then slap in those other high level implants which raise your Stamina just enough to - you guessed it, slip in a higher Shining Nimbleness implant.

All implants should rely on the char stats, and never have their requirements filled by other implants. The game should also NOT COUNT BUFFS when checking implant requirements - want to buff up to use the imp? Too bad, spend the IP. The only buffing the implant should allow is treatment buffing, because Funcom made the treatment requirements high and made the treatment clinics buff by 100 - the only instance in the game where Funcom intended this overbuffing-to-use-items effect.

After implants are on, they do not break - ie, debuffs will not break your implants. Moreso, because none of the implants are reliant on other implants, they cannot break in a cascade - since the player stats are always what they depend on.

-Lower the MOB level.

This one's obvious. Everyone overequips to stay alive, and nobody wants to see it go because of that. So fix the monsters.

-Stop letting debuffs BREAK everything.

As you all know, debuffs break nanos, MA moves, etc. This is WRONG. Some have suggested making it so weapon-user's weapons break when debuffed - that is not only NO FUN, it's not sensible! It just isn't fun.

The game knows what debuffs are - so make them so they don't break skills. They're intended to reduce effectiveness at things right? As it is, they're never used for reducing effectiveness, they're used for breaking MA moves, soldier's reflect sheilds, doctor's heals, NT's nukes, the list goes on.

When debuffed - if the person could use that nano/item after their normal skill and buffs are counted - good, you get to use it. That nuke might not hit for the top-end 3000 damage.... and that heal is likely going to heal for the low end of the range too.

Imps won't be debuffable. Your armor either. You can run into the field with equipment on the edge of your stats in full confidence that it won't all break with one simple nano cast on you. Just as fair for the NTs as it is for anyone else, and please don't try and tell me debuffs will be useless - nobody could miss how they can kill crits or drop damage.

Soldier's guns don't break on a debuff, and they shouldn't, because it is neither fun nor sensible. Let's keep it fair in regaurds to debuffs.




If these changes are made, balance can be restored to the game. Players will not be 'nerfed' - all other players must abide by the same rules, and so just as it is now - those whom take the time to earn their tokens, optimize their armor, and invest their IP properly will have the same old advantages! And with monsters weakened down after the over-equiping pump-up they got - the high-end game will restore balance as well. No longer would agents have to equip level 200 guns to stay alive at level 90, no longer will level 140 MA's hit for minimum damage every time, and no longer will you get crit for 9000 by a level 40 agent (exaggeration of course ).

It's not a matter of complaining about the overequipers. It's a matter of taking a part of the game out that wasn't meant to be there - and once it's gone, you'll see that the game is sensible, with no silly implant hopping, wrangling, superbuffing, to get weapons on just so you can survive.

[_______________Bjond]

Lanasia, you have some good arguments, but what you're asking them to do is to rewrite the entire game and the entire game balance. If they did it, I agree, it would be a better game. Back in beta, I and others /bug'd the fact that items stayed equiped after buffs ran out. Funcom disagreed -- they liked overequiping. We then built characters on that premise after release.

So, if Funcom wants to redo everything, go for it. But, first, they need to give me all my money back and re-enter beta and STAY there until they're sure this time.

If they don't want to give money back, they absolutely must make sure a nerf-murdered character can entirely recover with a few hours of work. This means revamping the entire shop issue. You need to be able to walk in and buy any QL shop item you want at will (else it would take a month of shop camping to rebuild just one character) -- not any game item, just any item a shop sells should be sold at whatever QL you want to order.

An IP wipe would be critical and should be done *every* time there is a significant IP-effecting game change. In fact, there should be an in-game method to wipe your IP -- make it cost 10k/level or something to avoid exploits and give everyone a free wipe if they wish after any item/skill nerf.

Every class would need to be rebalanced. All the NFs and every skill re-thought out. Some are tightly coupled to being able to overequip (eg. traders and agents). Some skills and NFs ONLY exist to overequip -- comp-lit buffs, wrangles, and tutoring are easy examples.

Every single monster would need to be rebalanced, especially high-level monsters. PvM requires strong overequiping now. Remove overequiping without rebalancing all combat and the only customer's they'll have left will be 10 or so fanboys.

The entire customer base is intensely disgusted with the lack of quality in patches. If Funcom goes ahead and does their usual half-assed job (eg. overequipped items pop out and vanish -- no reimbursement & no warning, monsters stay strong, and no IP reset), AO will die in a week. Whatever they do damn well better be perfect in the first patch.

Given that Funcom can't even do something as simple as keeping inventory from being scrambled on zoning (yes, still there in 13.2 -- the patch that just "erradicated all container gnomes" -- reproduce by zoning once), my hopes for their ability to get a patch of this magnitude correct are about nil. So, leave it alone.

[____________Slivicon]

I agree with IP wipes for massive gameplay changes in a patch, however I do not agree for allowing players to do it whenever they want. This is because the IP point/skill system is all about strategy. What choices will you make? Go for pistols now, or wait for that SMG you want? Hmmm.....decisions, decisions.

If you make a choice and 30 levels later you realize it was a bad move, too bad for you, that's what strategy is all about.

However, like I said, if Funcom comes along and patches gameplay severely so that it ganks characters in the way of IP allocation, then by all means wipe it. An example I can think of is dual pillows. I know NT's who spent a LOT of IP's getting dual weild up so they could have two pillows then they got nerfed.

If players could do it whenever they wanted, there would be no separating the brilliant strategists from the people who lack skill in planning strategy, because there would literally BE no mistakes that you couldnt easily correct (even with a charge). IP allocation would becoming boring and useless, since I could change my skill allocation in any way at anytime. I've made big IP mistakes, but I understand that this is the price of failing in strategy. In some skill areas I have had excellent strategies that have really paid off...

/ramble off

[Doctorkain]

Yeah Bjond, you basically said it - if they can't get it perfect when they do it, they might as well leave it like it is. Of course, I really, honestly think it would work well if they did it right... but who knows what kind of roulette game that is?

To summarize the parts I was hoping for:

-One-time IP wipe now, optional ones if big nerfs MUST happen

-Largely downgraded monster power

-50% damage in PvP changed to more 66%ish (less damage at a given level without changes in HP or healing is going to require this rule to be changed)

-Equipment you do not have stats for redded out (with exception of treatment req for imps)

-Implants cannot meet each other's requirements

-Debuffs debuff, not break everything


This wouldn't require a de-equip - if a char is beyond his means, his stuff will just red-out and he can take it off and change equipment at his leisure, meaning no equipment lost (well... hopefully )

This would keep power range for a given level reasonable (allowing mob levels to make easy sense to the designers), and leave all the power-optimizers plenty of room to make the difference between them and someone whom doesn't bother one bit (keep in mind as of now many classes can equip quality-levels well above their own -without implants-).

I'm hoping those on the other side of the argument will give this serious consideration... while over-equiping is doing ok under levels 120, what will you over equip when you start hitting 150 and you've been using a ql200 hammer for the past 10 levels? Consider and share, please.

[________Shadowrunner]

I have not played AO, for a long time like others might have but
I have played multiuser games for about 5-7 years. I have read
most of the notes here consearing game balance and equipment
and I most say I equipment really get some of you points.. you saysomething like "The game mechanics allow me to wear equipment way over my level and becourse I put long time into it, I have the right to do so and all the rest can just go to hell." Just
becourse you can do something dosent make it right. I could
put lots of examples here but I choose not to, I choose to belive
you get the point. The thing I see is that people focus on numbers. "if I cant dis out 2000 point of damage in one shot I suck". If 10 point of damage get the same result done as 1000 is the weapon not just as "powerful" Numbers mean nothing just the effect of what happens. IF this statement is true, that means
you will get more fun out of equipment and weapons that fits
your level and you can use more different equipment and weapons over time. You can enjoy new weapons you find and try different things, this would also mean that were would be different things to wield and wear up to level 200.
If is just the best you want and not verity, I jugest that funcom makes a shop were all players that want to can get a wand of instant slaying and Armour of indestructibility so you can rise to level 200 in a day or 2 and have your fun with that.

As for the game in a broad sense balance is most important so
that most people will be able evolve there charter the way
they want to without havening a to hard time.
if you have an average char with average weapon fighting an a bit stronger mob you should be able to slay it. He would not
be able to make it against 2 but he would be able to take on
3 of a bit weaker mob. Against a stronger mob he would not have
a change.

As this is the basic model you now have to fit in the
different char models.
An enforcer would properly take 3 on of the same size
but have trouble with bigger ones.
An agent can take down one bigger but would have
trouble with 2 of the same size as him self.
and so on.
I do know its very hard to make game balance, and that
most things game balance work out as intended, but there is no
shame in admitting that there are fought's and make a
general downgrade as long as it is made on both sides,
players and monsters. If this balance is reached it would properly also balance pvp combat.

Well this was just my bid on how to solve the problems.
And remember games are for fun non frustration.

[_____________lettuce]

ok my answer to the over equipping weapons issue is this:-
when the buffs run out the weapon is immediatley treated as if it is as many ql's below the charactersw lvl as it previously was above(minimum of 1).. for instance if a lvl 50 character is using a ql 100 weapon then the weapon is treated as if it is ql 1 when thebuffs cease.
in this way the major twinkers would be hit the hardest and you would not entirely lose the use of the weapon

[__________ChrisF0001]

Bjond, you're right when you say that if Funcom nerf overequipping they will wreck a lot of characters, have to rebalance all the monsters and basically rewrite the whole game system, and that this will make a lot of people leave.

However, I'd like to point out (again) that the game as it stands is not acceptable to an awful lot of people. Sure, if overequipping gets removed, a lot of people will leave: but if it isn't, a lot of people will leave too. As far as I can see, overequipping is so effective that the entire game can only be balanced for one group, the people who overequip or the people who don't. If Funcom do nothing, they'll lose all the players who can't or won't twink their characters that way.

Something has to be done. It's very late for a complete system rebuild, but I for one would like to see it done. AO is a horribly broken mess at the moment, and I'd hate to think that that's all it's ever going to be.

[______________Hodaka]

Truthfully, I'd almost be willing to bet that more people overequip in some manner than those that don't. There are probably very few characters out there that haven't used *SOME* type of buff to get into something. Whether it's an implant, armor, a gun, etc. I know people who even have to buff to use their treatment and nano kits.. and word spreads fast. New players learn quickly..

So if funcom does what you say, and tries to please the majority, it would seem they'd leave it alone..

I have posted ideas on how to solve some of the problems, but I'd truthfully wish they'd just leave things along and let us get back to playing the game instead of trying to relearn the rules every patch. However, I also hope Funcom looks at our ideas, but makes decisions solely on what they believe will make the game better.

I don't believe that those of us on the boards represent the majority of players. Most won't even come here, because they're tired of whiners who cry nerf at everything that makes this game fun or classes unique..

Originally posted by ChrisF0001
Bjond, you're right when you say that if Funcom nerf overequipping they will wreck a lot of characters, have to rebalance all the monsters and basically rewrite the whole game system, and that this will make a lot of people leave.

However, I'd like to point out (again) that the game as it stands is not acceptable to an awful lot of people. Sure, if overequipping gets removed, a lot of people will leave: but if it isn't, a lot of people will leave too. As far as I can see, overequipping is so effective that the entire game can only be balanced for one group, the people who overequip or the people who don't. If Funcom do nothing, they'll lose all the players who can't or won't twink their characters that way.

Something has to be done. It's very late for a complete system rebuild, but I for one would like to see it done. AO is a horribly broken mess at the moment, and I'd hate to think that that's all it's ever going to be.

[_______________Anubi]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the following elegant solution to the problem of over-equipping:

On character death you respawn as per normal, but are totally naked (except for implants). Equipment goes into inventory, or if full, into bank. It always seemed odd to me that characters respawned after death fully clothed anyway.

Eventually only the hard-core twinkers would be constantly nagging others for buffs to re-equip their gear every time they die, as it would be too annoying.

On a related note: at level 46 without wearing equipment higher than my level I do not find mission mobs to be 'overpowered'. I find it challenging, yes, and it takes awhile to do a mission. Perhaps that is different at higher levels, but I suspect people are calling mobs 'too hard' in missions if it takes longer than 30 minutes to finish a mission heh.

Lancet, 46 Doctor
Omni Tek Is Your Friend!

[Cambist]

If they limited buffs to people in your grouping range you'd have a bunch of ncu space, but could only be buffed by people up to level 17 thus preventing your twink.. Seems more reasonable to kill the source of the problem. High level characters buffing low level characters than killing all of our armor and ncu every time we turn around..

Originally posted by ULTRA1
If they do it for weapons they really should do it for belts and implants too. But the implant reduction would only have to be based on the stat not the treatment req.

And if this is done BY ALL MEANS Mobs must be NURFED too. They are already too strong at 100+

At least you're a soldier.. If the proposed change goes through, you'll be one of the least hurt in the game along with MA and NT... I suspect most of the rest of us would have to crawl in a hole and die or reroll different classes. Most people already get obliterated by soldiers, with the possible exception of enforcers who generally keep up by overequipping and a goodly ammount of hp..

-Sell-

[_____________Naosuko]

This isn't totally relevant, but...

Having a limit on inventory size is a little silly. Okay, in real life you'd run out of hands to carry stuff, but this isn't real life. Still... remember the old weight limit system? It was broken at the time, but made sense - if you're carrying thirty guns, then you can't run around very fast. AO is not a FPS

I'm not saying it wasn't broken at the time - bags didn't work, etc, etc. But it didn't need to be removed - just tweaked. All that was needed was an increase in how much weight someone could carry. Let's say... a current full inventory's worth without penalty. Then, if the limit on items in inventory, bags, etc was removed, it could all be done on weight instead. If you're willing to take twice as long getting back, you can carry twice the loot. What this'd do is fix stuff like not having room to get mission rewards, not having room to carry stuff that's deequipped (if that's introduced), not having room to buy stuff... I think it'd work.

'Course, this is only slightly related to the topic at hand

~Tamara Esselte Alsaqri
Madame Canvasser
The Honored Maidens