If Funcom was doing a good job-- this thread would not exist and would certainly not be 15 pages long!
LOL
If Funcom was doing a good job-- this thread would not exist and would certainly not be 15 pages long!
Make that 16 :POriginally posted by Nemesyss
If Funcom was doing a good job-- this thread would not exist and would certainly not be 15 pages long!
BTW an IP reset would be the way to go... people with IP rings would loose about 4000-6000 for a level 40-50 (based on a 1% ring, dependant on when they got it) which isn't so bad, AND it would eliminate the cheaters advantage.
In regards to the Over-Equiping, Make it so when the buff wears out the "weapon" (be it a gun, hammer, or casting) can not be used. This is already the case with the casting classes.
Theumage
Has anyone ever thought of maybe putting a counter on nano buffs. I mean, limit the number of buffs to a specific skill to 2 (not including general buffs maybe) and you'll still have people equipping high gear, but not obscenely high gear.
I think earlier in this thread an enforcer lvl 55 stated with his own buffs plus general buffs he could get into an 85 hammer...with wrangle he got into 105. Now with a 2 buff max to a skill with general not included he'd be using a ql 85 hammer which is respectable. Or maybe he would have opted to leave out one of his buffs and take the wrangle and end up in a ql 90-95 hammer. Looks like compromise is the only way out of this and I'm happy with a bit of over equipping if it's not obscene, like the lvl 72 agent happily toting around a ql 200 stigma (haven't actually seen it but saw the buffs/implants and what not she used to equip)
Cheers
Oshikai
Actually "Pimp" is an actual word, "pimped" is derived from the word "pimp" if you look up the word pimp in a dictionary you might find a similar meaning as this.Originally posted by Makade
Gaute, what is this being "pimped"? Is it usual for you to use teenager slang? Is this a general reflection on the maturity and experience levels of the AO game design team?
pimp \Pimp\ (p[i^]mp), n. [Cf. F. pimpant smart, sparkish; perh. akin to piper to pipe, formerly also, to excel. Cf. Pipe.] One who provides gratification for the lust of others; a procurer; a pander. --Swift.
As you can see its a proper word, and although its use in this situation is a little colourful it is in no way bad english.
Ironically accusing someone of being immature, is a very immature thing to do.
Damn 16 pages...
Keeping it simple, posted long in some other related thread.
It's not about overequiping imho, it's about the fact that the buffs never really wear off nor can weapon wielders be affected by debuffs like other damage dealers. Make weapons perform in line with the characters current skill and leave it at that. Buffs would work as intended as TEMPORARY increase in ability, not a graft to your body. Debuffs would work as intended, to weaken a weapon toting opponent. What is so wrong with that? Oh no you'd ahve to have a trader nearby after the wrangle wears off? Boo Hoo.
For other items, make requirements non buffed stats or modified by self buffs only.
First I must say that I did not have the time to read through the now 16 pages long thread and might therefore repeat others.
Personally I would think that a fully disabling solution for weapons would be best for now - to balance nano users agains weapon users.
Also, only firing the weapon should be impossible - any positive effects on other stats should remain (to counter any avalanche effects, if there are weapons buffing weapon/nano skills).
I would never disable every possible item in ONE patch. If weapons is not enough, armor might be the next thing - although for armor partially disabling might be best (changing to another set of weapons/nanos is easily possible, replacing all the different armors by lesser versions is not possible in a fight).
But I would be very cautious with implants. Implants depend on being buffed before putting them on - as the treatment skill is raised by +100 naturally (stationary surgery unit). This would make the 2nd skill requirement (ability) the only one to be checked, which imho is not a "nice" solution. Additionally implants quite naturally produce "disabling avalanches".
Hmm - to easy for exploiters? I do not know - your current scheme of treatment seems fair to me, only you should remove exploited items if you ever have the chance to do so.
as there was said before ...
Make mobs easier to kill - let the power/uber gamers outlevel their insanely high equipment - its bound to happen sooner or later anyways. Restore Missions to being soloable _even at high levels_
...IF you Kill the Overequipping (which is in my eyes a good thing - to an extent) in no matter what fashion you may;
The game will become unplayable as a matter of moments.
Consider:
A lvl 100-150 *might* be able to überbuff into a Weapon / suit of Armor of around QL 200.
Then whats left? Their damage (apart from a minor critical increase and lvl dependent damage multiplier) will stagger.
~while at the same time~
MOB's get tougher and tougher - we are experiencing this effect already;
at lvl 69 i got a lvl 48 mission (you can tell the lvl of the mission by the QL of the reward)
_unbuffed_ my AC is 15XX now - and a mercenary (rookie maybe?) hit me for constant minimum damage ... 56 to be exact..
with a weapon that looked amusingly similar to a solar rifle
You wanna place a bet on a lvl 48 Soldier trying to fight a lvl 69 Mob just by himself?
NOT.EVEN.IF.HE.WAS.WEARING.OVER-EQUIPMENT.
there i said it. put in stone.
The PvM rule set is way out of whack, our selection of good, hard hitting guns THAT WE CAN USE UP TO QL 200 is just _non existant_
MOBs have to much HP and to much AC - catered towards a minority of Powergamers wearing equipment twice their level, who will WITH NO EXCEPTION drop the game as soon as they hit lvl 200, storyline or no.
at lvl 68 i was using a QL 103 Mausser (yeah im a fixer allright).
can somebody finish that thought for me?
If at lvl 68 i need a QL 103 Mausser to even be _somewhat_ efficient in a PvM environment - then what the bell will I do past lvl 150 when ill have long ~outgrown~ the QL 200 Mausser!?
FunCom - there will always be people who will find glitches in the system, and who are able and willing to bend a few rules (not talking about cheating / exploiting here, mind you) _within_ this system in order to gain faster than others do.
Is there something you can do about it? No.
What about the vast majority of _roleplayers_ out there though, who are anxious to participate in the conflict, eagerly awaiting every episode, every update and just _coping_ with the badly thought out rule set they have to participate in?
Dont mess with things you cant handle.
Its the same with us players - hell I cant solo a light green MOB anymore, so i dont do it.
I've no problem with over-equipping. Just let the casters over-equip in the same manner - remove the check when casting nanos. Surely that is fair?
Creep.
Okay, a lot of people have been saying things like this. I suspect, though, that many people are missing the actual problem. Quite possibly I do too, since I haven't been playing all that long and don't have any high (or even mid) level characters yet, but from reading the boards, one thing seems pretty clear.Originally posted by Mage
1) Don't touch overequipping. Period. It would make many classes unplayable, and make the game much less enjoyable.
For many people, many classes are already unplayable, and the game is not currently enjoyable. Many more people have pointed out that changing the rules on overequipping will require the game to be rebalanced, the monsters to be altered, and so on: whilst this is true, it should also be borne in mind that this will have to be done anyway. Game balance lies in ruins at our feet right now.
So, what's the problem, really? As far as I can tell, it's simply that overequipping is too powerful. Now, I'm not saying that to imply 'I don't overequip so it's not fair if you do'. What I mean is that the difference is combat power between a character that is overequipped and one that is not is so large that the whole game is being thrown out of balance.
Consider a question that was posted many pages back, now. 'If I see someone grey to me killing orange mobs, does that really hurt me?' Indirectly, yes it does: this sort of thing is hugely damaging. Why? Because when the next patch rolls around in a couple of weeks time, the monsters will be powered up to make those mobs, which are orange to you, powerful enough to be challenging to that other character, who is grey to you. After the patch, if you were having trouble with oranges before, now you'll be having that problem with mobs that are grey. Monsters that are green will completely slaughter you. Surprise! Now you can't gain any XP. You can't run missions unless they're set to full green, and then you won't make any money: anything you grab in the mission will no longer pay for your expenses in treatment kits and nano rechargers. Sure, you might be able to make your character playable again by overequipping, but you can't do that. Not, as many people here imply, because you're not prepared to put the time or effort in, but because you can't raise the money. I've seen posts here that suggest that properly overequipping a character costs, what, 1.5 million? I've also read posts elsewhere from people who have logged on after a patch and lost all their money practically overnight on healing.
So, what do we have? People who are overequipped at the moment are having a good time, because the game is being continually tweaked to make the game fun for them. However, anyone who currently isn't overequipped quite possibly can't, now. Some people say that overequipping is the only way they can stay alive: people in similar situations who aren't overequipped at all don't have a hope of getting back in the game, through no fault of their own. Reroll or quit, thanks for playing.
As far as I can tell, that's the problem. That's why something must be done. It's taken so long for this problem to become apparent that now Funcom are almost guaranteed to lose custom over this no matter what they do, especially if they do nothing. If the game is fun for you, be thankful: for a great many other people AO is turning into a living nightmare, and if you don't leave, they, in fact we, probably will.
There's lots more to say, of course, but for the moment I'll leave it there...
Yes
I must admit I hadn't really given the whole thing much thought since I as an NT can't overequip, and usually play alone doing solo missions.
Your post made a lot of sense to me, Chris!
... they gather, like big cats around the water hole, waiting for the weak and the wounded to stagger into their territory so they can exercise some violence, and feed their starving reputation ...
Roleplay? Sure! RUR.has.it!
I mentioned this on another board, but the simple fact is, no one wants to admit that half the fun of the game is playing with your character like you would GI Joe or dolls (take your pick). You dress them up, you give them weapons. You buy them equipment and are always trying to outfit them better or make them look more cool. Any of you who had a GI Joe or dolls knows you spent more time dressing them up than you actually did in playing with them. Play was always the secondary function *after* you got them all decked out. Put GI Joe in a swimsuit and a scuba tank and you went to the tub and tried it out for a while. Then you came back, put him in camo and gave him a rifle, and went into the back yard and played war for a while.
Equipping your character and trying to find the best equipment and spending the time getting it installed is what makes AO so fun. Most of the missions are blandly the same and no matter where you go and hunt, it's still the same thing over and over again.
I don't take it nearly to the extremes that others do. I like to RP and it's hard to do when you can't put your party suit on for fear of not getting back into your armor and weapon. However, I understand where those people are coming from who go that extra mile to get into the very best of equipment.
Exploring and equipping are what makes AO fun for me. You take away that ability to strive for better and cooler stuff and it throws out some of the best parts of AO..
Edited. too long and boring to read before
I could never overequip when I first started playing. Reason was = lack of funds. I have played several online games. When I first started playing UO and EQ I had crap for items and equipment. After a few months.. I was making new characters in both of those games and suiting them up in great stuff. That is what I do on AO now. I didnt exploit for any money or for my items. I just did a lot of missions and sat and waited for saleable items to come up in mission booths. So you ask yourself this.. if it was balanced for everyone you would have to give every player 1 million credits when they make a new character. There thats fair. .... right. This is a whine issue if you ask me. You sit here and whine about not having uber stuff.. and dont do a thing about attempting to get it.
Seems to me the only people who are complaining about overequipping or mainly PVPer's. Just add in one thing to the game FC. If a "player" debuffs another "players" weapon skill then knock off the weapon. That makes it fair. Same thing for armor. Make those debuffs useful in PVP.
But if you start touching the PVM game (which I only play)... then I sure hope you rebalance the monsters to be beatable. Post 100 its near impossible to take on even 2 greens at the same time with QL 150 items on.
Exploiters. Suspend them instantly. If they want to cheat dont let them spread the word so others can do the same. Hell I dont exploit.. and I would say that maybe just maybe 10 percent of the player base do. Get rid of them.
Last edited by Krystka; Nov 29th, 2001 at 16:00:21.
Ok now, I have played this game since day 1, retail release, and well, every major patch I've seen almost totally changes the type of game Funcom seems to be "making" us play. I never find out about exploits or anything until they are taken away, and really they have never bothered me. I first played an Engineer, because I wanted to create things and I prefer to solo. Big mistake, I could not create anything, and overall the profession is nothing but a bug IMO. Ok, so i chose enforcer, they seemed to do really well solo. Ok, well all was fine until 13.0 and the pvp reduction patch which melted over to Human NPC's (which I cannot find anywhere where Funcom is working on fixing this) so, once again I am totally group dependant, I can't even solo a green withought running. my armor and weapons are overequiped (within 15 lvls) with MY OWN buffs, and MY OWN implants I earned, yet I can't even do a mission now below my lvl? I can't even fight through missions to get enough money to pay for medical supplies? Ok? Or I can do a low lvl mission, that will give me something I can't use, or won't help me at all, and pay me enough to buy 1 or 2 nano kits(thank god I don't use ammo)So you forced me to Hunt (which I hate, even tho it's been made easier with more xp) The way things are now at lvl 90 and since lvl 10 every profession you play it seems you HAVE to be over equipped to even function as your profession doing anything at your own lvl. Now as far as reducing the quality output of items and armor and nanos? What a stupid idea. That will totally take away the trade market, who will buy or upgrade armor at all? if you get a higher lvl piece then grow into it?
If any of that happens I see us all becomming underequipped, mean players who can't accomplish anything. All we can do is hunt (only if we spend hours running around equipping and "buffing" their armor or weapons to reach max usability. Until a new patch that makes misisons easier and hunting harder. Why not give us back our choice? I want to make the descision what I want to do i the game. Are we not playing ANARCHY Online ??? The only Anarchy I see is when things get screwed up by the patch forcing us all to conform to what the game allows us to do.
As far as the pvp issues, I really can't say much, I have no desire to PVP, and it really sucks that i have to suffer in my missions, and what I do, because people complain about what is and is not fair. Well, once again, this IS Anarchy Online, and Obviously certain professions ARE going to be more powerful than others no matter WHAT they equip. That is only common sense to me.
Right now, i like to just run around and adventure either solo, or with good friends, finding neat items and trying to earn money. I can't solo a mission now (unless I run through it) which I don't think is a bad thing, it happens in the movies all the time. " Guy runs in, doges bullets, throws a few blows, and trys to get out alive"
Now, running around broke, trying to make ends meet, spending hours and days trying to find things that you and everyone else in ur profession can use, exactly the way you use does not sound like fun to me at all, it sounds like living as a drop out of highschool with a kid and twins on the way working at a fast food joint.
I'm very sleepy and frustrated, just thought I'd vent a little..
just please keep the fun in the game, and don't turn it into Conformity Online...
PVP whining
I don't pvp, and I hate taking the fall every patch becuase of pvp complaints. Just a quick thought, all those complaining about PVP fairness, yadda yadda etc. this is not Quake or Unreal, we like to Roleplay here, and charachter development takes time and effort.
you won't buy AO one week, then a week later with a few mouse and key strokes kill off armies in pvp. For those who exploit? well the only ones they are hurting (seems to me) are victims of grid camping or wompa camping. but then hey, I don't see why where is a lvl restriction on PVP anyway, that's not very realistic. I think it's exciting when my misison is in Stret East and I take a few moments to wonder "what will happen to me on the other side of this wompah"
I have now tried to post twice, but everytime it asks for my login which I already was logged in and then says thread doesn't exist. So I am going to keep it short an sweet (I HOPE)
Everyone disagreeing helps, but doesn't help. Funcom is not going to implement something that cause dissention in half the player base. And I say half want to have some ability to overequip and half don't. So we need to come up with a solution in the middle where at least 3/4's the population can be happy.
What is the common ground? The best common ground is to limit the extent to which overequipping is allowed. Why??? Because
Eliminating overequipping, eliminates the trade from the game. No more wrangles and their line of +50 Electrical Engineering, weapon smithing, etc. only becomes useful for making weapons which hardly anyone does. I don't play a trader, but I would feel sorry for them.
How do we reach the common ground????
1) Put a cap on the minimum level a player can be for you to buff them. My best opinion is that you'd have to be able to team with them. Anyone of a higher level is fine. This eliminates LvL 20 players from getting 100+ wrangles and Riot Control... Bring s game into balance, while players are still able to get +16, etc. Wrangles at the level (I think).
2) Do an IP whipe, since there was a widespread known IP exploit. This would be a one time affair, unless something happens that causes another exploit in the future.
3) DON'T DO ANY CHANGES UNLESS YOU UNEQUIP EVERYONE TO MAKE THE CHANGES BALANCED.
I don't want to see anymore significant gameplay changes. Changing anarchy from a game of buffs to debuffs does this and destroys the traders current major skills as wells as requires a major rebalancement of mobs and proffessions afterwards. I also don't want to see any more changes such as Pillows becoming 1 handed yet, those who had em in both, get to keep them in both. THAT'S NOT FAIR! Well... these are my two creds. hopefull the message board will accept this comment. If not, I am remember to copy it to clipboard, so that I can just paste it for a quicker response next time.
Post your opinions on doing these changes so funcom can see we are making progress!!! If you don't like them, don't flame me or my ideas, but Suggest how you would change my ideas or add to my ideas to make it better for everyone.
General Eleetist
D.A.R.C. Ops
PS by decreasing overequipping you are effectively increasing the power of NanoTechs and MA's who can't overequip.... so you guys should like this idea.
Isn't that what we're doing, giving our ideas to funcom for fixing or leaving alone overequipping?
Making a post telling us not to disagree is actually counterproductive.
Making a post that tells us to use your ideas and modify or change them is a bit egotistical..
I've posted my ideas elsewhere in this thread, as has everyone else. If I saw another idea that I liked or didn't, I've posted a reply to it (such as this one)..
*THAT* is what we should be doing, not suddenly everyone embracing one idea and trying to hammer it out.. some ideas here I'd never have even thought of if they hadn't been posted..
Funcom will ultimately make the final decision. They may leave things alone, they may make one of our changes, or they may go their own way. I don't think they'll be popular no matter what their decision, so I hope they base it off of what type of impact they will cause and how easy it is to implement relatively bugfree.
Originally posted by eleetist
I have now tried to post twice, but everytime it asks for my login which I already was logged in and then says thread doesn't exist. So I am going to keep it short an sweet (I HOPE)
Everyone disagreeing helps, but doesn't help. Funcom is not going to implement something that cause dissention in half the player base. And I say half want to have some ability to overequip and half don't. So we need to come up with a solution in the middle where at least 3/4's the population can be happy.
What is the common ground? The best common ground is to limit the extent to which overequipping is allowed. Why??? Because
Eliminating overequipping, eliminates the trade from the game. No more wrangles and their line of +50 Electrical Engineering, weapon smithing, etc. only becomes useful for making weapons which hardly anyone does. I don't play a trader, but I would feel sorry for them.
How do we reach the common ground????
1) Put a cap on the minimum level a player can be for you to buff them. My best opinion is that you'd have to be able to team with them. Anyone of a higher level is fine. This eliminates LvL 20 players from getting 100+ wrangles and Riot Control... Bring s game into balance, while players are still able to get +16, etc. Wrangles at the level (I think).
2) Do an IP whipe, since there was a widespread known IP exploit. This would be a one time affair, unless something happens that causes another exploit in the future.
3) DON'T DO ANY CHANGES UNLESS YOU UNEQUIP EVERYONE TO MAKE THE CHANGES BALANCED.
I don't want to see anymore significant gameplay changes. Changing anarchy from a game of buffs to debuffs does this and destroys the traders current major skills as wells as requires a major rebalancement of mobs and proffessions afterwards. I also don't want to see any more changes such as Pillows becoming 1 handed yet, those who had em in both, get to keep them in both. THAT'S NOT FAIR! Well... these are my two creds. hopefull the message board will accept this comment. If not, I am remember to copy it to clipboard, so that I can just paste it for a quicker response next time.
Post your opinions on doing these changes so funcom can see we are making progress!!! If you don't like them, don't flame me or my ideas, but Suggest how you would change my ideas or add to my ideas to make it better for everyone.
General Eleetist
D.A.R.C. Ops
PS by decreasing overequipping you are effectively increasing the power of NanoTechs and MA's who can't overequip.... so you guys should like this idea.
Last edited by Hodaka; Nov 29th, 2001 at 17:23:15.
You must ban the exploiter. Let's them play another rpg focus on xp(lile red planet or diablo 2).
It's the difference between a game with a story(and people who want a story), and fight game(where people only want to get better and better).
Even in an anchist world, we all need to follow the same world's rules.
Ironically Sniper missions (find and kill person) you still have to clear mission to finish well... What a joke. And Like wise fix machine machines too. At least on the find item it states kill everyone. Sniper Missions should be ideally find guy... kill guy... comepleted mission. In essence... Agent can sneak (avoid) NPC's in mission and find their target. They can then kill their target. They then would need to sneak out alive to have the xp, but that sounds like a great mission for an agent. Also... on the fix machine machine... max it take Mechanical engineering to fix machine... then the mission is ideal for Fixers and Engies, without requiring them to kill everyone. Soldiers/Enforcers/ect. should run clear missions. Agents should run sniper missions. Fixers and Engies should run fix missions... Oh what a beautiful world that would be... of course still give everyone the option to choose which type they'd like to run.Originally posted by Torozeta
You talk about overequipping !
It is not a problem if a soldier level 50 use weapons level 80. Because if he had followed the rules, he is just smart.
The real problem is : EVERYBODY has to overequip fighting items to play at high level.
Fixers, traders, docs... If they want to do missions they have to kill, kill, kill ...
Killing is not the purpose of those professions.
I am an agent. When I want to earn a token, I kill everybody in the mission. As an agent it disgust me having to kill everybody. A good mission for an agent is a mission where nobody notice him !!! But if I do that, I havent done the job well. It is stupid.
Missions are stupid for agent, doc, traders... because the only things they can do is to kill, kill, kill
another point about overequipping.
the problem is for newbies player(like myself). We came in a game that seems far to hard.
I need to create three people before being able to create one that was able to kill ONE monster.(more than 3 hour of play to kill my first monster....)
I finally gains my first level because better people take me in their team. I can't do anything because I was too bad; but they get me to level 4 before throwing me away, because I'm too bad to kill monster...(I pardon them, it is true)
I've not buyed the game, and i'm not sure I will. I'd like to play solo(even online). But with an honest new player, it seems impossible. And staying very low level, it is very hard to find an interesting team.
I definitely agree here. Missions are based off of the same tired formula, no matter what the goal. A random generator puts together a map, drops in your goal and some mobs, and away you go.. kill everything, get a token and XP.. it's starting to become a big yawn ..
of course this is starting to get a bit off topic, but it's the having to kill to gain XP vs any other viable source that makes everyone have to go overequip and blast away in missions
(there, I pulled it back into context *hehe*)
Originally posted by eleetist
Ironically Sniper missions (find and kill person) you still have to clear mission to finish well... What a joke. And Like wise fix machine machines too. At least on the find item it states kill everyone. Sniper Missions should be ideally find guy... kill guy... comepleted mission. In essence... Agent can sneak (avoid) NPC's in mission and find their target. They can then kill their target. They then would need to sneak out alive to have the xp, but that sounds like a great mission for an agent. Also... on the fix machine machine... max it take Mechanical engineering to fix machine... then the mission is ideal for Fixers and Engies, without requiring them to kill everyone. Soldiers/Enforcers/ect. should run clear missions. Agents should run sniper missions. Fixers and Engies should run fix missions... Oh what a beautiful world that would be... of course still give everyone the option to choose which type they'd like to run.
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