"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[____________WildKard]

"1. Should we do a pre-emptive strike on the exploiter community?"
I don't understand what you mean by "pre-emptive strike". "pre-emptive strike" to me means, "We think you are going to exploit, so we are going to just ban you before you can." That isn't what you meant I hope. If you know you have a bunch of exploiters, punish them, publicly (post character/organization names along with the crime and punishment). Do _not_ assume that because 95% of a faction are proven exploiters that the other 5% are. I don't understand the reference, but several posts seemed to imply that some people have more IP than they legitimately should (legitimacy based on level and something called an IP ring??). If this is true, wipe those characters as that is an obvious exploit.

Exploiters should be educated (warned) that they are exploiting IF it isn't perfectly obvious. Duping items is an example of an obvious exploit. Wipe the character on first obvious offense, or second non-obvious exploit. Banning the character for 1 week is the penalty for "ignorance" (warning). Also reverse the exploit gains (remove exp, $$, item, etc.). Someone exploiting knows it, regardless of what they claim. 1 week banning of that character is not harsh and will drive home the lesson: Funcom and the AO community do not tolerate cheating. Proven sharing of exploits should result in the entire account being banned/wiped. Zero tolerance for exploiters! They are generally grief players anyway so beyond the cheapening of the game experience, Rubi-Ka is better without them.

Remove the ability to over-equip.
What was the original design intent of implants? I think they are meant as an IP booster, sort of IP for $. The requirements of the implants was meant to balance them. The current system allows 'buffs' to stack that weren't balanced for. A buffing NF/item allows one to install/use an implant; that lets one use a better NF/item; that lets one install a better implant; that... See what I mean? The effect of implants needs to be natural skill level based, unaffected by other buffs/implants. One is free to install them at anytime, they just won't work _at all_. An implant simply will not grant any increases unless the requirement minimum is met. This avoids the cascading implant failure issue too.

Similar change for NFs that buff and to tutoring. They need a hard cap on the lowest level character they will effect or have natural (ie., non-implanted/unbuffed/non-toutored) skill level based requirements for the target. These changes will keep the uber-twinkers and super-pimps in check, kinda like the group experience limits.

All other equipment and NFs should have the requirements met to be useable.
The minimum requirement must be met to be useable at all (again, one is free to wear/hold/upload stuff they can't use). Buffs/implants/tutoring make better stuff usable. I think this is the intention. So, if I get a buff that lets me meet the minimum, I get to use that item or run that nano program _only while the buff lasts_. If I get de-buffed I can't use an item or run a nano program I no longer meet the requirements for. I still get to hold/wear it, I just don't get to use it; armor doesn't provide any protection; computer belt add-ins don't work (reducing NCU and halting programs with the least amount of time left in the case of memory), and so on. NFs can be uploaded to my NCU's storage if I'm buffed, just not run when I'm un-buffed. This adds some strategy. Right now it's "the best I can use". If I have to worry about de-buffs, I might choose to use something with requirements I exceed for a "de-buffer zone".

[Lazz]

Over-equipping. One thing that strikes me every time is: What were you thinking to begin with? Since the traders have their skill wrangler (I think that's the one that last 60sec) and it can be used on other I guess the initial intention was to give the players the possibility to over-equip? So, what happened? Did things get out of hand? Did you miss something balance-wise?

Either way, the over-equipping possibilities are a fun aspect of the game, but it makes it very hard to balance it seems. It's a kick to be able to use a higher weapon, like cheating the system. The pleasure of finally aquiring a high weapon and to find a trader/buffer to be able to use it is nice. Maybe all you have to do is to drasticly reduce the affect of all weapon-buffs/skill wranglers and give the casters some mild way of over-equipping and the problem would be solved?

If you totally remove the over-equipping possibilities and as you have suggested even put a penalty on those who do it, it will take some fun out of the game. An 'average player' who don't put a lot of effort in the game would be just as powerful as someone who tries his/her best to make the most out of the character. Everyone will be able to kill a green and everyone will be killed by a yellow/orange. Only profession/weapon type will to an even higher degree determine the power of the character.

Whatever you do, make sure you balance the MOBs, we don't want a scenario where everyone gets killed by white MOBs after a change. Today many over-equipped players gets killed by greens... Oh, and dual pistols really sucks at higher levels, a lot. Is that intentional?

[_________BladeStrike]

1. Nuke all exploiters 'til they glow in the dark.

2. One warning only, regardless of the specific exploit. The next exploit of any kind, ban two weeks. The third exploit of any kind - "Hasta la vista, baby!"

3. I haven't read all the posts (my goodness!), but those who benefited most from over-equipping seemed to be the most vocal. Unfortunately I think the effects on game-play caused by over-equipping have discouraged many of the casual players (and thus their voices are under-represented here).

Fix it please (yes, I am over-equipped too, but not as much as some), in the interests of a more vibrant (highly populated) game.

* Reset all IP, maps, NF, etc.. You get all your IP back into one pool. You get the maps all back as the little injector gizmos. You get all NF you know back as crystals. Provide every player a special backpack containing all this stuff, that they can only empty items out of, with a one month or ten log-on (whichever comes last) time-limit to reclaim all the goodies.

* De-rate all equipment, and NF to reflect current stats. Check all equipment/NF and re-set stats on all zoning incidences. Reset stats and equipment/NF effects affected by any de-buff NF at the instant of effective casting.

* Treat casters fairly (I'm not one, so no benefit for me on this) by processing NF the same way weapons are handled (i.e. if a caster can use a buff to load the NF, let him/her use at it at reduced effectiveness a la weapons/armor).

* Leave all current implants in, subject to a "one Treatment buff only limitation". Any implants requiring more than one treatment buff (ignore all other stat buffs) should be de-quipped per equipment above (ouch this will hurt me personally!).

* All comments about the money spent to over-equip etc. should be ignored, since the reality is most of us can earn the money quickly enough anyway. If you give people enough warning, they can stock-pile cash to re-equip in the Brave New World.

Thanks for posting the original message and soliciting our feedback.

[_____________gronkat]

hello there

(plz excuse me for the poor english )

1.
how do you handle players who found exploits? ban them? ok, i whant my money back. (just kidding)
in real. when you play on the edge of possibilities (and thats what optimizing means) you sometimes find exploits. may be equip exploits, or dupe ... it doesnt matter.
youll never know who found the bug. another if you take all of my stuff and money (because i might be duped for it) ill cancel this game too

2.
ok like another one said before, there are twinkers and roleplayers in that game. im the roleplayer type.
i wanted to play a supporter profession (you know the people which go !with others and help them to survive) i never wanted to play a uber-hack-and-slay-char. i know in the first place, i s*** in combat. my little pistol do about 1/10 the dmg my friends does, so what? i dont whine about that. do i overequip? (if you mean use treat buffs and a doc set ... yes) do i use it for killing other players or killing monsters better? no
there are a !lot of people running around with a lvl 20 enf and shouting 'who wants to fight?' let them be. all kiddis who dont know to play a game for fun. (they wont do it for long either)
is there a chance that such a player could ruin my day? maybe if i running into a gridcamper. but i learned to dont go there. its like rl, there are places you shouldnt go. (like dark streets 0200am)

3.
about balancing the professions. there are prof not suitable for a fight but usefull in battle (doctor) or support a team to make them really better (trader, adv)
so all people who want to hack and slay go, and twink and hack and slay as you like (you should better play diablo instead)
to fc there is nothing worth to change

another thing ... all players who use exploits will find the game sooner or later boring (just there arent cnallenges or rewards for playing) and then they whine how sh*** this game is ... ignore them. everyone who play this game for fun will stay unless there are !huge bugs that made it impossible to play this game.

[_______________Nivil]

In a game centered around buffs, how can there even be the term 'over-equipping'? Trying to 'fix' it doesn't make sense to me as I don't see why it's a problem other then the fact that the game seems to be centered on the people who have tweaked their characters to be 'leet' and by catering the game to those people, 'normal' people start to cry because they become weaker and weaker.

Solution:

Accept that people who 'over-equip' are 'leet' and that they will kill things with ease. So what if they do? That's what happens when you're 'the best' etc. Shape the game around the avg player. If you continue to shape the game around the best players, the majority of the players who can't 'over-equip' will be hurt. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the world is not equal. There will always be people who are better then others. Accept it and let them be better. There are a lot of whiners out there who will cry cry cry because they simply suck at playing AO. Or maybe these players think that they should be able to compete with someone who plays AO for hours a day while they play for an hour a day. People should just accept that there will be players out there with more smarts and more time then you, and that they will be better then you. Funcom should accept this as well and allow those players to be strong. Focus on the majority of non 'leet' characters so they can have fun too.

Every online gaming world I've played in has followed the same path. They focused their energies on keeping the 'leet' players from having it easy. They will make the game harder for the 'leet' player. For the average player, change 'harder' to 'much harder' and see who you're hurting really. The 'leet' player in all honesty isn't affected all that much. They still know they rock and they will continue to level faster and be faster and know more then the average player. The average player will either sigh and have enough love of the game that they will square their shoulders and continue on in weariness, or find something else out there that gives them a dose of fun.

Anyways, just my 2 am thoughts on 'over-equipping' and I'll finish with saying I sincerely hope that AO does not waste more time mulling over this issue. Ban the exploiters. Fix the bugs. Add some real content. (The events are a joke.) Give players tools to facilitate some role playing. Fix the bugs. Those are all about 9 zillion times more important then this non-issue of over-equipping.

[__________WGMelchior]

In regard to preemptive: No, they won't ban you before you exploit. That would be just stupid.

Those who played D2 a while ago might remember the 'All your dupe are belong to us!' thing. They never told anyone, they basically lied to people before implementing it, but one day that message was just there, and all dupers got severely screwed up. It was more or less 'a success'.

NEVER tell the exploiters what you are going to do to them.

[__________Joenetwork]

Currently the only thing really keeping my interest in game is "over-equipping" my character. So far I'm only using self-buffs to do this but don't see why I shouldn't be able to get help from somebody else if necessary. Put simply, affect that part of the game and I'm gone.

What I have no objection to is having all my equipment come off when I die. It'll be awkward but I can re-equip it relatively easily. If some gear has to sit in the reclaim booth until I clear inventory space - too bad. Death shouldn't be so easy.

On de-buffs I can see how there should be more of an impact but why should I take more of a hit than some bum who hasn't bothered to equip himself sensibly if we are both working with roughly similar baseline stats (and of a given profession and race, we almost all are). Let's say I get de-buffed to 100 str but my armour requires 200 str. Now it's working at half AC, yeah? Meanwhile Johnny Noclue is sitting pretty with his 80 str armour he hasn't looked at in 15 levels. Okay he's going to get smoked anyway but why the charity? Reducing armour effectiveness makes no sense - let's say it's a lot harder to put the stuff on than to wear it regularly - some of the armour grafts with your body. That's a harsh process but once it's on it's on.

Reducing weapon damage output seems fair based on the percentage drop not from the equip requirements but from the un-debuffed value. Therefore it still pays to equip the best gear possible (with help if necessary, this is a social game. I'm not particularly, so I suffer but don't see why others should be penalised for having friends. See my death point above - crazy over-equipping won't be so fun if you have to jump through hoops to re-equip. There's enough random death in game to make this a threat to even the most hardened over-equipper) but you will suffer if de-equipped. Seems like you're going to have to code some pretty tedious checks every time a de-buff lands though.

Stat de-buffs would make sense if you hadn't already screwed with stats. Armour weighs nothing, ammo weighs nothing. Strength means what? That's right, nothing except when equipping. If I got hit by a strength de-buff and my armour suddenly burdened me, making me easier to hit and harder to hit back that makes sense. Play fair, if you want a stat de-buff to be meaningful don't make the game mechanics so unrealistic.

The comparison between nano runners and weapon users is bogus anyway cos we all use nanos. De-buff a tank so he can't use mirror shield or challenger and you hit their effectiveness.

[_______________Nivil]

Originally posted by Joenetwork
What I have no objection to is having all my equipment come off when I die. It'll be awkward but I can re-equip it relatively easily. If some gear has to sit in the reclaim booth until I clear inventory space - too bad. Death shouldn't be so easy.

Actually, that's a great idea.

[Todfrae]

Ello,

Todfrae and Todfrea, level 43 and 61 engineers on rubika-1 . Todfrae is a shotgun wielder currenlty ql 77 lizard and Todfrea is dual wielding PNG pistols ql 80 and ql 45. DAMAGE OUTPUT,?? well needless to say the S/G wielder does far more damage than the two pistols.
My family and i do not PVP, we prefer to PVM, its way funner for the three of us to go in on a 75% mission and try to stay alive than to try to figure out the pvp rules. Futhermore, we have played AO since its release and missed out on all the duping/IPing/cash exploits, we don't bother with trying to bust a game but play because we finally have the ability to customize a character in a game. This is amazing, my wife and i have never played a game online where we had such total control over a characters abilities. KUDOS to that. We played EQ for two years and they never allowed this extensive an ability.
yes i ramble

So to the task at hand,

Let me define OVER EQUIPPING Mr. Wizard, from what i have gathered so far, is the using of an EXPLOIT to gain/use an unfair advantage of a weapon/item way above your current means.

Makes me say hmmmmmmm,

The in game mechanics currently allows myself and my family to finally keep up with the mobs. By using wrangles, implants and specialist as well as general buffs we can go into a 75% mission with some degree of success. FINALLY that is, i know ill get flamed for this but here it goes.
So here is how the current in game mechanics are being used by myself and my family,

1) IMPLANTS - buying and constructing implants to enhance the skill requiements to use a specific items primary requirements Ie. to install higher QL implants i have made several ql levels of treatment ql 30, 50 and 70, intel, str, and stam ql 30 and 50 for the three of use to use. We use omni med treatment suits to help in this as well. ( this takes alot of time and money, and dad gets first dibs on the loots, heheh)

** 100 plus to treatment from the implant clinics is great help in getting into implants 30 QL levels higher than we are ***

2) BUFFS - I have just recently found out how to make use of the skill wrangle buffs in game to equip higher level weapons. I know a slow learner, but i liked dual wielding pistols and with the advent of the lose the off hand weapon currently in game it made no sense to try it with pistols. In fact, all my wifes sons chars are dual wielders. ( this i have found is a distant disadvantage in the game over one hand weaponeers and we have started to correct this, a shame really but we are).

3) Tutoring - No one has mentioned tutoring, still broke i guess. i have tried it twice to no avail. now that would be a good way to improve skills to equip stuff, if it works. Much like portable treatment clincs but i see those as field units not designed for increases of treatment but to do in field work to change out implants to cast a buff and what not but at your current skill level of treatment ( can you say counter productive ).
Hmmmmm, maybe drop the implant clinics 100 point increase to treatment would stop alot of this dead in its tracks. WHAT AM I SAYING HERE. ~

With respect to debuffs,

1) DEBUFFS - I say yes, YES YES YES, make them hurt everyone. I mention the bad game again here, in EQ debuffs hurt like the dickens, so if a caster class cant use a nano, or i cant use a stim, simple first aide or nano kit when debuffed then my weapon should be rendered either useless or sorely degraded. That would make perfect sense, if you can do it make it happen, please do it.

Finally to exploiters,

1) Exploiters - Simple as this, if you steal and get caught you get hammered. If you assault someone and get caught you get hammered. If you KILL and get caught you get hammered. you DO NOT PASS GO and you do not collect two hundred dollars YOU GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL . So exploiters that use third party software to bust the game or to take undesigned advantage of the game should be banned. I am saying, not just the char, the account simple as that.

In conclusion, If i may so ask, is this over equipping a detriment(sp) to the game? IMHO and my wifes, it is a resonding NO. My family and i are having fun, we spend alot of time planning out our missions, implants next levels IP positioning, weapon upgrades and Nano crystal purchases. I have stopped playing big Tod because he cant fight worth a damn (dual wielding sucks and seems all dual weaponeer's were affected by FA nerf), but his nano programming is 412 and so far its all he is good for. Will you penalize my family and i for our using the system ( i see all the buffs and implants as the way to make your char better, to bad you took away the complit buff ) to get most out of a customizable character, i certainly hope not. Or on the other hand, ?? HAVE i missed the point of the original article entirely???

Respectfully,
Todfrae

[___________Chocotoff]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Joenetwork
What I have no objection to is having all my equipment come off when I die. It'll be awkward but I can re-equip it relatively easily. If some gear has to sit in the reclaim booth until I clear inventory space - too bad. Death shouldn't be so easy.
---
And everytime spending alot of money for all the buffs you need from other people?(=> giving traders more money for their wrangle skill; Doc's IC, agents ...) Yea right

[_____________Spindok]

>Should we do a pre-emptive strike on the exploiter community?

No, you will never win. Instead, Log ->catch them ->warn them ->ban them ->done.

**Note: I do not support banning all accounts on the same credit card. A friend of mine lets his brother charge his monthlies to his card... should they both be punished if one acts like a jerk? No.

>How hard and in what ways do YOU think we should crack down on people who exploit?

See above. 1 warning, pulled to GM area for questioning.. mistakes happen and sometimes people dont know.. but 99.9% of the time they know they are doing it.

Catch, warn, Ban.

>How should we handle over-equipping?

If you take away the ability of other classes to buff one another to equip and use weapons and armor, you will put a huge dent in the economy for one, as well as drive players into more of a single player atmospehere. Why interact with others if I dont need to?

The only problems I see with over-equiping is in PvP. Fix PvP and you solve the over-E issue.

Yes, I have a problem with a lvl 30 agent using a lvl 150 rifle, but I dont see a problem with that enforcer who is able to equip a ql 106 hammer with self and doc buffs..

The way it stands now, you are limited to the number of buffs you can have based on NCUs. Unfortunatly there are people who have 5-6 slot belts on and implants from using the Treament exploits or the Trader other comp lit (fixed)

You cant just drop all of our stuff into the bank as a solution. If you do, we will "lose" millions of credits that we had to spend, not to mention time searching for the buffs.

Bottom line is this. Its YOUR game. You need to pick a stance and hold true. Stop being wishy washy and listening to the uber guys who probably wont be around in 6 months anyhow. Cator to the casual gamer and you will get alot more return from your customer base.

One last point. If you do nerf.. you NEED TO REDUCE MOBS!! You boosted them to compete with the ubers, now without the extra stuff you dont stand a chance.

I quit playing my soldier because you made him a woosie. At least with my crat I know hes supposed to be weak..

My 2 creds (plus $12.95/month)

[__________Joenetwork]

>And everytime spending alot of money for all the buffs you need >from other people?(=> giving traders more money for their >wrangle skill; Doc's IC, agents ...) Yea right, Pooly.

Yup. As I said. I'm self-buffed so I have no trouble with re-equipping. If you have gone so far beyond what you can do yourself then it should hurt when you die.

Oh and the engineer dude. If weapons become useless does your robot fall over too when your matcrea or T&S gets debuffed?

[_______________MrHeX]

Hello fellow Ao:ers

Over equipping you say.
As far as i see it. i cannot see a problem with that.
Possibly that it demands aid from a player with the buffs nescessary and implants.

For a gun to stop working just because a buff wears out is pretty ridiculous.

The only difference is that the professions who has the buffs can buff themselves other than that it is perfectly even.
Perhaps making the Weapon mastery buffs general buffs.

Either way i do not see this as an exploit, more a part of the game. also making the profession who has skill buff able to make a buck here and there for providing it.

i suggest you forget this part it is commonly accepted as part of the game as i see it.

On the other hand exploits.. i say it is good people find them! is it not.
Is it not funcoms part in it all to fix exploits so people cant use them.
it would be as if a waterpipe was leaking in the desert and people were sucking on it, and executing them for drinking the water. It is the watercompanys problem to fix the pipe.
Therefore fixing exploits quickly.
i guess that sneak in missions exploit that was described had been there from day 1?
Perhaps Funcom should ask themself "how come it took us so long to fix it?"

Do not flame thy customer thus he pays your bills. HeX´s nr.1 word of wisdom.

By the way, to make a point clear. i havent never will i use an exploit. i feel is an exploit.
Such as NPC´s stuck in mission´s exploits, i pull them instead.
Thats where i stand on such things.

However that you think seem to see as an exploit, i see as a integral part of the came.
Buffs are there for such things are they not?

Nah leavi it alone.
just leave that part, you will only piss people off, it is aviable for all. just more so for the buff owners.. but that can be fixed can it not!?

Make Weapon and armour buffs general.

Robert "MrHeX" Mellgren

[______________Nelida]

reducing "to character level or below" the effectiveness of armor, weapons, and ncu is that it renders MOSTLY useless the Traders line of deprive, ransack, divest, plunder, AND wrangle lines of nanos.

If my level 65 Trader was reduced to using a level 65 weapon she would not be able to solo ONE green. This would make solo play (which I DO occasionally) impossible.

Armor would be less of a problem with her since she uses just slightly over her level and the ncu she equips would be no problem.

HOWEVER, you have chosen to make 99% of this came all a bout KILLING POWER. If you so drastically reduce the killing power of players you will adversely affect a HUGE base of players in a way that has NO remedy.

Currently there is a substantial advantage to "overequipping" weapons...killing power is drastically increased. This is NECESSARY to keep up with mob strength at mid and high levels.
HOWEVER there already exists benefits for having higher skill. My ql 134 Vektor ND does a 1600 unbuffed crit shot. But if I run my best buffs I can do 2100 point crits. Non-crits shots scale equivalently. If I were to have a high level wrangle in effect on me at the same time I could possibly sqeeze out 2500 point crits.

The problem is that my deprive/ransack line (along with wrangle) is SO short lived that it is EXTREMELY difficult to maintain it during a mission and pretty much IMPOSSIBLE during a surface hunt.

Unequipping or rendering useless items when these buffs wore off would 95% of the time result in instant death. Going from my normal 1700 AC to 0 in the middle of a fight (which often last longer than my deprive/ransack buf) is simply insane.

Even reducing the effective QL to at or below character level would render damage output near useless to even level mobs.

A Trader in a group would be relegated to ONLY debuffing mob and buffing players. A Traders weapon would be useless after running individual or team wrangle to increase effectiveness of the other players in the group.

I've spent a WHOLE lot of time developing my not-quite mid level Trader...If Funcom destroys her ability to BARELY stay ahead in this game then I'm through with Rubika.

And, BTW, I do mean "barely stay ahead". Missions are getting more and more difficult to complete and the credits BARELY allow any profit after the cost of treatment kits, rechargers, and first aid kits are taken into account. Furthermore I'm finding a full 30% of my game time is spent 'camping' mission terminals to find something I can actually USE or SELL. Nearly ALL of the rewards are simply junk and a complete waist of my time. Right now I'm behind on implants (ql 30 and 50 installed while I'm at level 65), behind on armor (most pieces below my level) and BEHIND on nanos (looking at my next 3 nanos costing over 1 mil in shops and not available from other players). The ONLY think I'm ahead on is my weapon ql and each level I gain my killing power diminishes. If I don't equip a ql 150 Vektor by level 70 I'll not be able to run a mission of simple green mobs. Of course I don't have NEAR the cash for a ql 150 vektor.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm finding it harder and more tedious living in Rubika than in the real world. It's getting to the point where the real world is an 'escape' from Rubika. Is THAT what you intend?

[______________Nelida]

I have a level 65 Trader and if you limited the ql of my Vektor ND to ql 65 I'd not be able to kill a grey mob. PERIOD THE END.
And, BTW, just WHAT would be the point of my entire line of deprive, ransack, divest, plunder, and wrangle nanos?

Yea, lay off the wine...it isn't doing anything for you brain functions.

Originally posted by reality
Over-equipping should be prevented imho, but how is the question. How about limiting the items you can equip by not allowing you to use items of a higher QL than your level ? No more over-equipping, less exploiting, and easier to balance the game.
Or did that wine not leave my head completely yet ?

[Myga]

1) DEBUFFS - I say yes, YES YES YES, make them hurt everyone. I mention the bad game again here, in EQ debuffs hurt like the dickens, so if a caster class cant use a nano, or i cant use a stim, simple first aide or nano kit when debuffed then my weapon should be rendered either useless or sorely degraded. That would make perfect sense, if you can do it make it happen, please do it.

I want to comment this. Most debuffs do hurt everyone in AO. Evade/dodge/duck debuffs effect all professions that get shot/beat at. For gun classes ransacks/deprives lower your attack which makes you hit for significantly less, you will have alot fewer critical hits and you will miss more. The nano skill debuffs naturally only hurt caster professions in general, but can also force soldiers to use lesser version of their reflective shields, advents to use smaller heals etc.

In EQ however debuffs generally only hurt melee (slows are bad, the others do minimal effect on them). I cant really think of any debuff that hurt caster other than resist debuffs which dont exist to my knowledge in AO. So I dont think EQ is a good comparison in this respect.

Also want to point out that while debuffs might in some cases effect casters more because they will be forced to use lower lvl nanos, they also resist them easier because gun classes generally have blue/dark blue nano resist.

[______________Nelida]

I don't live for this game...you waste too much of my time like this and I'm out of here. Right now I'm getting pretty peaved over having to waste so much of my time camping mission terms to find SOMETHING worth running a mission for.
If I have to reallocate all my IP, re-install all my nanos, re-equip all my junk I'll just cancel my account.

I don't exploit, I "overequip" only using my own nanos and wrangles from other Traders (what ELSE is the point of these nanos). I ONLY "overequip" so I can survive a mid-setting mission...which more often than not is BARELY survive.

The game is getting TEDIOUS...so far all the suggestions I've seen will ONLY make it more TEDIOUS.

I play this game to 'escape' from RL. Recently I'm finding RL and escape from this game.

Originally posted by Theanna
1. Yes, with a qualification. Declare an amnesty against exploiters, de-equip them, and drain their bank account. Don't cancel their accounts.

2. The warning system in place now is fine.

3. 2 options I see here:


1) Leave it alone.

2) De-equip everyone, convert their nanoprograms back to crystals, and wipe IP, returning all used IP to the players. At the same time, set your *FINAL* rules for equipping, make them very well known (with plenty of advance warning, say 2-4 weeks). Personally, I kinda like the idea of scaling back equipment that is too high for you (You've got a ql 120 weapon, but without the trader buff you used you could only get it to 100.. Treat the weapon as a QL100 weapon. I'm assuming that you don't have each individual QL for a weapon entered in the DB, but instead use some sort of formula to determine the stats. Make the stats refigure each time you zone, and add a button on the status window to allow the user to refigure them whenever they get buffed... Sure, this would mean that stats aren't refigured when a nano runs out, but give us a little feelign that we're getting away with something... ) Most important, though, is to *RESET THE MOBS!!!!!* At this point, it seems that the mobs are geared toward the uber-twinked, over-pimped exploiters... right now, even with min-maxing my soldier, I can't take on mobs in even to %65 missions without massive trouble. The whole balance of the game has been ruined by all the constant rebalancing which seems to be done in order to keep up with exploiters/over-equippers. In other words, you've made the game playable for 10% of the players, while leaving the other 90% wondering if they'll ever be able to solo a yellow mob again.

Just my 2 bucks worth.

Theanna

Oh, and as for the NCU belts, if you can buff into 'em, you can wear 'em and use 'em. *BUT* have the NCUs installed act like a unit installed at the maximum QL they can use with current stats.
And leave implants be... it's incredibly difficult to get together a decent set of implants as it is... let us keep the full effect if we can buff into 'em.

[______________Nelida]

do you mind telling me how a mid level Trader would manage to kill even a simple grey mob?

Originally posted by Lanasia
I'm beginning to think the simplest option is to just red-out D2 style weapons and equipment you're not capable of using.

But! you cry, "The debuffers will become excessive and uber!"

Simple: debuffs will be specially checked NOT to break equipment - when hit with a debuff, if the char could equip/use that item without the debuff, it stays perfectly useable. The penalty from the debuff, is of course what the debuff does.

The same rule goes to casters - if they can use those nano kits, those offensive nanos, or those buffs, then by golly they get to keep using them.

The instant this is said, we all think "then debuffs are useless right?". The counter-action is simple: increase the power of debuffs. Instead of taking off only 56 points at level 65, take off a good 75-100. Their equipment wouldn't break, they'd be fully functional - but the Enforcer would crit far less. The doc would heal on the minimum end of the spell more. The NT would hit for low-end damage with his nuke, and also have a harder time nuking high-resist players.

Do NOT, and I repeat do NOT let casters use anything uploaded - I can upload nanos far, far above my own level with the aid of friends right now, and this would throw game balance out of whack. Like I said above - D2's 'make red, then break' system should work fine if the debuff changes are also made.

Possible exceptions for these rules might be implants & NCU belts, and also possibly armor is the players desire. But one thing is clear - with these changes in place, FunCom -must- make the monsters playable for even-level chars again. I over-equip regularly ONLY for monsters, which is kinda sad.

Edit Note: This is the way I think debuffs should work and the way I think FunCom wanted them to work - as a skill decrease, dropping your skills... not as a nano-lockout like so many use them today.

[____________Tiberion]

1. Should we do a pre-emptive strike on the exploiter community?

Absolutely. Putting the offenders down hard is one of the best ways to send a message. Exploiters are cheaters, plain and simple, and they should be dealt with as such.


2. How hard and in what ways do YOU think we should crack down on people who exploit?

Eliminate one of the warnings - one warning on any particular exploit is all that should be needed. If the same person is reported or caught doing it again, they should be suspended. On the third offense they should be banned completely. Also, ALL exploited equipment should be taken from them (if applicable). Lastly, I think there should also be a penalty for being suspended, like a % reduction of the players credits or equipment. Hit em where it hurts. Be tough and you will eliminate most of the cheating.

3. How should we handle over-equipping?

Unfortunately, AO's fairly poorly thought out system prevents any painless cure here. I have seen Traders using weapons and armor WAY higher than they should...its crazy. I am in favor of capping the usable level of ALL equipment to be equal to the players level x 20% or some other similar factor. That would be simple and keep the playing field more level. So, My 50th level char would only be able to use a 60th quality weapon, armor, nano cluster, etc.

Keep it simply, and keeo it fair. And above all, eliminat the cheaters by being tough on them. We play these games to have fun, and exploiters are simply taking advantage of your game and everyone else who plays it. They know they are exploiting 99% of the time, and they do it repeatedly. Terminate them.

[Elfixer]

There is something in Diablo2 that could help solve over equipping, its having a maximum amount of money that a character can have depending on the current lvl. That means a low lvl can only buy items that are accessible within his money range. For a low lvl to have higher items, it would need a higher lvl to buy them and transfer it to them (would be a lot of trouble). Also means that ppl couldnt have 300M credits. When you have money, spend it. Would keep economy running. A problem with that is concerning rare items that are selling for much even though the QL is average. I hope my humble suggestion can help discover new ways to make the game enjoyable.

Capt.Molson