Roots...TO POWERFUL

[Kuro]

Originally posted by LastJourney


*applause*

Well...FROM THE CHEAP SEATS TO YOU...(just wanted to say that)... I have never really put any points into trimmers. I am always on full defense at all times, to avoid agro I do not want. The trimmers I do use are the ones that make the creatures agro my bot.

Then will you please explain to me how my ql 200 bot has always and WILL always be rooted by any level person.

I am happy you know how the system is SUPPOSED to work. But let's face it .... it does not work.

Your arguement is based on me having an agro bar to the max and me having set my bot to hyper aggressive. As I had stated before, I only use the agro trimmer (it is the only one that has a noticable difference in saving my butt). So I would like to know why a level 105 guy can root my slayer 100% of the time. Of course I would just expect you to post your wonderful formulas again...but....don't.

It simply does not work as stated...

Never has..and if Funcom never fixes it...

....it never will...

Hrm...I'm halfway tempted to tell you to take your gimped bot and stick it somewhere the board censor would object to. But luckily for you, I'm only halfway tempted.

In your quest for vindication, you completely bypassed a couple of things. I guess that's what I get for believing in basic reading comprehension. The person's profession and the nanoformula used against you and your bot makes a significant difference. As stated, a fixer using an AoE root is using a nano with 70% resistability. If you're facing a person like me, a trader, even at level 72 I have a significantly higher nanoskills than other players my level. Almost 30 levels worth of IP investment (thanks to deprive/ransack advanced).

More importantly, nobody knows what the nanoresist is for any of the pets. So some pet types may have higher nanoresist than a equal level player that has invested in the skill every level. And some may have significantly lower.

Even more importantly, while how nanoresist works was explained there were a few things that weren't explained. Notably is what the exact effect the agg/def setting has on nanoresist. Assuming that at neutral aggression nanoresist is unmodified could be severely flawed. For all we know at neutral aggression, nanoresist could be at 75% effectiveness going up to 125% at full defensive or down to 25% at full aggressive.

But the most important fact is this: Given the skills and nanoformulas given to the engineer profession, did you ever consider you're not meant to get into a PvP battle? No direct damage nanoformulas. A weak weapon skill. A variety of defensive shield nanos. And a pet with extremely limited AI. Bots work fine against mobs. The mobs don't have the AI to root the bot and move out of it's melee range yet keep you in its range. When the mobs do root your bot, it's more accidental than intentional. So your bot is a highly effective weapon in PvM. But face fact: engineers would do better using their pistol than their robots in PvP. And it doesn't matter that you don't want to be an active participant in PvP. You're chosing to hunt in PvP zones.

And while the engineers have strengths in PvP, those strengths are mostly for team PvP situations and do not come into play when the engineer himself is the target.

[_____________Wenzell]

hmm I think I met a person with brain as small as an ant.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Wenzell
hmm I think I met a person with brain as small as an ant.

If you have something to add, by all means go ahead Wenzell. Does it change the fact that pets, while highly effective in PvM, have almost no effective use in PvP? What is the only difference between PvP and PvM when discussing pets? The fact that you're facing a thinking human being that's going to take advantage of the fact the most effective strategy is to root the pet.

If Funcom raised the pet's nanoresist significantly so they resisted roots regularly, chain casting root nanos would prolly still be the most effective strategy against a pet player. Chain cast roots till 1 takes, switch targets to the pet owner.

[________________Heya]

Nerf roots!
They are a free kill card against melee and pet classes.
Yes they may be nessecery for nt etc to keep the soldiers away but they allso cause a very VERY serious imbalance in pvp belive nothing else!

[_________Deaddreamer]

Originally posted by Vandame
Nerf roots!
They are a free kill card against melee and pet classes.
Yes they may be nessecery for nt etc to keep the soldiers away but they allso cause a very VERY serious imbalance in pvp belive nothing else!

Soldiers away? Soldiers have the same range cap we do. The only reason we would root ranged classes is to run from them. Roots are only effective against melee and bot classes. That was what they were designed for:

Hold the target to one place while we move out of it's range and hit it with nukes/aimed shots.

It is also designed to break once we hit it so it can get a chance (risk) to get us back into range and hit us back. If you drop its effectiveness in combat, what would be the point to even spend IPs on it? It's already so pointless in missions that I've removed it from my shortcut bar for that reason. Why not make it useful only 1/3 of the time outdoors as well?

[_________LastJourney]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


Hrm...I'm halfway tempted to tell you to take your gimped bot and stick it somewhere the board censor would object to. But luckily for you, I'm only halfway tempted.

So, I offer to do a test with empirical data,...and you tell me where to stick it? What is your problem? Is it so wrong for me to be interested in the results of a neurtrally oriented bot...being without trimming. I intend to repeat the experiment with a heavy 200ql trimmed bot as well. If you have a problem with the test, then don't read the results.

As for "how lucky I am"....I am not impressed by you or your arguments. Nor am I threatened by your words. I will do the test...and I will post what power was used on it. That way you can stop your insults, because you know (apparenetly) what % of resist is on each power.

An imperical test will hurt nobody...it will only cost my character money...

[_________LastJourney]

Originally posted by Wenzell
hmm I think I met a person with brain as small as an ant.

Who are you saying has the brain of an ant? If you are refering to me, I don't see why you are saying that. I am offering to take time to do this experiment....not something a no-brainer would do.

If you are talking to the previous post...kudos

I will be happy to work with somebody who has a large amount of roots to do this test

Any volunteers...you know my name..just look me up in the game.

[_________LastJourney]

Originally posted by Deaddreamer


It is also designed to break once we hit it so it can get a chance (risk) to get us back into range and hit us back.

How come I can get shot 3 or 4 times and the root still won't break....seems pretty effective in PVP to me.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by LastJourney


So, I offer to do a test with empirical data,...and you tell me where to stick it? What is your problem? Is it so wrong for me to be interested in the results of a neurtrally oriented bot...being without trimming. I intend to repeat the experiment with a heavy 200ql trimmed bot as well. If you have a problem with the test, then don't read the results.

As for "how lucky I am"....I am not impressed by you or your arguments. Nor am I threatened by your words. I will do the test...and I will post what power was used on it. That way you can stop your insults, because you know (apparenetly) what % of resist is on each power.

An imperical test will hurt nobody...it will only cost my character money...

I generally respond to sarcasm with invective. Actually, since the majority of my daily conversations are face to face, I normally respond to sarcasm with a stern look. Doesn't usually take any more than that...Hopefully that explains the bot comment

The 'cheap seats' comment was because the majority of the people here cry "Nerf!" before they look at all the possible ways something could be wrong and fixed without screwing everything else up. Which the initial post did rather eloquently. The one thing that stood out in the entire post was this:

nano resist is crap

I've said that we players need a way to remove hostile nanos legally, unlike the debuff scheme currently does it. However, the logical step before doing that is to see why is it so darn easy to get rooted, get plundered, get xxx'ed. If there's a problem there, fix that first. Then move on to implementing a cleansing nano/device. I was always taught it's better to avoid getting shot in the first place than to rely on the bulletproof vest to live through it.

[_________LastJourney]

Ok,...to end all doubt...I will ask for assistance in my experiment...from the person on the COMPLETELY opposite side of the discussion.

Wenzell....I would like to meet with you in a 25% zone...just for the experiment..if you have some time. I know you are level 191 and so..I would imagine that you are not overly kept with power leveling.

If you would like to meet, I think that there will be no doubt about the results posted.

Of course...that means you will have to stop taking shots at me for an hour or so..

Willing to give it a try?

[_____________Wenzell]

Thanks for the offer.
But I dont think Im a suitable candidate for your testing.
I have maxed nano skills and implanted, they are more than enough to root your pet even if nano resist works as intended and I have no problem rooting most ace/real mean mobs.
More suitable target would be someone lvl 75-100 I believe.

Id be occupied with team mission for awhile

[_________Deaddreamer]

Originally posted by LastJourney


How come I can get shot 3 or 4 times and the root still won't break....seems pretty effective in PVP to me.

In PvM, i still get shot once or twice after doing a calm on the same mob. I think that has more to do with server-side lag than actual design of the root. When I root a mob, it breaks after I hit it once. If it doesn't work that way with PvP because of design, that yes, that might make it an unfair advantage. If it is from server-side lag... *shrug*

[Razorbak133]

Originally posted by Wenzell


And I fight everyone, Ive fought lvl 200 MA, lvl 200 doc..... I could care less about title when I want to have fun and when its fair. You can hardly find a novice who would die 3x in 2 hours period, that was me when I wanted to have fun.

So you want to have fun at someone else's expense? I am sure that at least 75% of the people who die in PVP combat didn't want to f$&king fight PVP to begin with.
And I think it is BS of Funcom to place camping/hunting areas in 25% zones and then shrug there shoulders when someone has no where else to go to level other than missions. I can think of 2 things to help. One is to let a person in a 25% zone be challenged and they can then accept or decline. The other option is to create a 15 second safe period from the time someone starts hostile action on you to the time the attack actually can start. This way, if a person wants to attack you, you have 15 seconds to prepare before they are able to actually start the attack. This will remove so much of the ganking that goes on in 25% areas cause you have a chance to either run or finish your fight or notify your team.

As for the ....holes like Wenzell who enjoy disrupting the fun others are having......get a life and let the people who are willing to have fun without interfering with others play.

[______________Takuan]

NR needs to be fixed, The only probblem with roots is you can get rooted by someone 50 levels below you which is silly. Roots should be reasonably resistable just like every other NANO that sticks 98% of the time. If you got your NR up it should never be a given that your gonna get rooted first try. Maybe then roots won't be as much an offensive tactic as a defensive tactic which Gaute thought they were supposed to be in the first place.

[________________Heya]

Quote:
"Soldiers away? Soldiers have the same range cap we do. The only reason we would root ranged classes is to run from them. Roots are only effective against melee and bot classes. That was what they were designed for:

Hold the target to one place while we move out of it's range and hit it with nukes/aimed shots.

It is also designed to break once we hit it so it can get a chance (risk) to get us back into range and hit us back. If you drop its effectiveness in combat, what would be the point to even spend IPs on it? It's already so pointless in missions that I've removed it from my shortcut bar for that reason. Why not make it useful only 1/3 of the time outdoors as well?"

That was just an example i made for arguments sake but you had to comment on it in lack of any real defence for roots.
And YES ppl root soldiers so they can get out of range untill tms wears of! Not that i would expect you to even know what tms is.

The point is, any lvl 75 agent can root my ql200 pet and that is just pure bull****.
Atleast give players and bots/pets a chance to resist however small it may be.

Christabel

[_________Deaddreamer]

Originally posted by Vandame
That was just an example i made for arguments sake but you had to comment on it in lack of any real defence for roots.
And YES ppl root soldiers so they can get out of range untill tms wears of! Not that i would expect you to even know what tms is.

...

This attitude does not give any validity to your argument from here on in.

Total Mirror Shield [TMS] - The Soldier's true friend in battle, a Total Mirror Shield deflects 75% of all damage away from the soldier. A small amount of this damage is deflected back onto the attacker. This formula cannot be executed on other people. It has the drawback of effectively shutting down your nano capabilities for 2 minutes.

What makes you think that I haven't played a Soldier past level 15?

I have played this game since Beta 4.

Give me that attitude and you will recieve ZERO respect in return.

Originally posted by Vandame The point is, any lvl 75 agent can root my ql200 pet and that is just pure bull****.
Atleast give players and bots/pets a chance to resist however small it may be.

Christabel

So you want it so it takes a level 200 agent to root your ql200 pet?

[________________Heya]

"So you want it so it takes a level 200 agent to root your ql200 pet?"
That would be nice

No seriously, i just want an increase in nanoresist on pets as they increase in lvl kind of like the nanoresist on very high lvl mobs, they resist nanoprograms quite frequently but not nearly all the time.
I cant remember the last time my pet actually killed something in pvp, mostly its my shotgun or nukes who does the bulk of my dmg which i find kind of strange since i belive funcom wanted pets to be our main source of dmg.
Yet i outdmg my pet with my weapon and since all ranged skills are darkblue for metas you would think a ql 200 pet would do tons more dmg!

Christabel

[_________Deaddreamer]

Originally posted by Vandame
"So you want it so it takes a level 200 agent to root your ql200 pet?"
That would be nice

No seriously, i just want an increase in nanoresist on pets as they increase in lvl kind of like the nanoresist on very high lvl mobs, they resist nanoprograms quite frequently but not nearly all the time.
I cant remember the last time my pet actually killed something in pvp, mostly its my shotgun or nukes who does the bulk of my dmg which i find kind of strange since i belive funcom wanted pets to be our main source of dmg.
Yet i outdmg my pet with my weapon and since all ranged skills are darkblue for metas you would think a ql 200 pet would do tons more dmg!

Christabel

Well, I would think that NTs should do comparable damage with Nano's that a soldier does with her weapon, but that doesn't happen either..