On Gaute Godager's Foray Into the Difficult

[_____________potoole]

As I stepped back and thought about Godager's 11/25 article, I was struck by the fact that his issues remind me of the classic devisive issue of "the haves" and the "have not's".

In RL, throughout the ages, many people face their lot in life with bitter contempt for those that have more, and can do more. Rather than investing more time and effort into bettering themselves and giving themselves a competitive edge, they choose to wallow in their defeatist attitudes and harbor contempt and su****ion of those who seem so successful in life.

In the exploration of the issue of overequipping I see the same paradigm existing on Rubi-Ka. Those that don't have complain about those that do.

My husband and I play this game together and have developed a level 57 MP by playing 8 - 10 hours a day since we spent 7 hours installing and patching this game at the beginning of this month. Additionally we spend 2 -3 hours a day reading the boards and AO related websites. In RL we are both over-acheivers and not suprisingly that comes through in our game play.

I say all of that to point out that I would bet that those who complain about overequipped characters do not put the same amount of time and effort into developing their character and game knowledge.

If Godager and FUNCOM decide to punish the over-acheivers of Rubi-Ka then they are showing that their mentality is that of Philip Ross and OMNI-Tek. "Keep the worker drones equal and in line." Must I remind you there is nothing equal about true anarchy!!

Let me strongly say that I do not condone players who use bug exploits to get ahead. But to punish players that learn the ropes and spend the time to optimize their character, would be turning the system of rewards upside down. It would create a world where effort and acheivement are negatively rewarded. So who would put all that time, effort and MONTHLY FEE into getting ahead if FUNCOM only punishes them for that.

As an MP at level 57 I am given Nano Crystals that allow me to buff my Nano skills +70. With those skills buffed I am then able to cast higher ql pets. Is that over-equipping? I think not. I think it is using my skills to the best of my abilities. In terms of implants and armor I still have to EARN and invest my ip into the base abilities in order to wear implants and armor several ql's above my level. Does this make me an exploiter? I think not. I earned the ip and I invested it where it makes the most impact on my character.

As an MP, I am glad that Godager decided to use the example of the pillow! I have weilded a low ql pillow since level six. It adds 2 pts to three of my nano skills. oOH aAH! Just this week I learned how to double wield pillows. Now I get a whole 4 pts. added to three of my nano skills. I had to invest ip into dark blue skills in order to do this. So is it an exploit? I think not. Does it give me a significant advantage over another profession? Not hardly! Support beams take me out in three blows!

Godager truly is making a foray into the difficult because the issue begs the question, what is an exploit and what is not?

If FUNCOM, Godager and the "have nots" think that I am abusing the game and unfairly getting ahead, then the laws of nature on Rubi-Ka do not reflect survival of the fittest. On a planet such as Rubi-Ka how could anyone have defected from OMNI if they were all kept equal.

I do not see any circumstances where the casual player is negatively effected by optimized characters. Quite the opposite, I see many optimized characters offering their cast-off equipment at reduced rates, so that the casual player is actually reaping the benefit of the optimized characters long hard work. In that case is the casual player exploiting the game to their benefit?!

I beg you Gaute and FUNCOM, please be careful in deciding what is an exploit and what is not. You are playing god in a world where "survival of the fittest" should be rewarded not punished. If I spend the time and IP to develop my character to it's fullest potential and then am punished for that, the game would not be worth my time nor money!

[__________Lucid Flow]

There is one thing that I always wonder.

Why does a Doctor need Strength or Stamina? Why do they need +10 or +20 or any of the other high level buffs?

I play an NT, everything I can use is natural (I swap intelligence implants though). People who yell "he is overequiping!" are just whining because they aren't as strong. The game is designed to let you equip higher. There are buffs in the game that allow for this and that server no other purpose BUT for over equiping... i.e. Iron Circle or Trader Wrangles.

Stationary treatment centers fix was fine. That stopped almost ALL ubertwinked characters. There are a few problems right now though.

- Concrete Cusions: They should be high level only. At the high levels, +16 str for more AC isn't felt as much as a level 32 wearing full elite armor. If Concrete Cushions were high level only, then a few select people could use them, i.e. enforcers and they need the most AC of any class ANYWAY.

That's one of the few problems I see with "overequipping" right now.

I went off topic. I didn't know where else to respond.

[__________starknaked]

Overequipping is an interesting issue.

First of all, it is only an issue that players care about regarding PVP. Nobody cares if they're fighting mobs in groups and others in their group are overequipped. "Oh no, Bob the Enforcer is hitting for too much damage, we're killing the mobs too easily, this is no fun!" No way, nobody has that problem.

People only are bothered by overequipping when they're PVPing against others who have overequipped when they themselves didn't.

So this issue of overequipping is actually another way that Funcom is trying to fix PVP.

While it might be a good idea, it is not the solution to PVP, it is not the most important PVP problem, and it's not going to fix PVP in this game.

PVP will still be lame and boring, you'll still hang around the PVP area for an hour, kill 4 people, get killed twice yourself, and when you're done you'll still have no idea if you were successful or not. That is, you'll still have no idea whether you've gained points, or lost points, towards your PVP title.

And there will still be no point to it, as you won't be able to strike any sort of effective blow against the other side. There will still be no territory to seize or control.

I'd also like to point out that if the overequipping changes go through, the next step will be a MASSIVE nerf on soldiers in pvp. This is because the other powerful professions, enforcers agents and traders, will suddenly be wielding weapons which do half as much damage, while soldiers will barely be affected at all. Soldiers will become unstoppable, and no one will be willing to put up with this. I assume that the nerf will be, soldiers won't be able to do their 3 specials all at once anymore. Or, the 3 specials combined will be capped at 40% of the opponent's hit points.

[__________Agent Ehks]

Though I woud say that Potoole sounded just a *touch* on the bitter side, I can understand her perspective completely. No, I'm not all that interested in "survival of the fittest." That's the kind of culture that causes confilcts like those in Rubi-Ka...and denies the oppressed the power to respond. But I certainly support the idea of "reward for enterprise."

I also want to express my appreciation to Guate and the entire AO development team for caring deeply about the game, their responsibility for the issues, and their player base. Today's letter was another step in the right direction.

Let me support Potoole and refine some points from my own perspective. First, the definition of "exploit" is HIGHLY dangerous. Though Gaute makes a reasonably concientious effort at defining the term to mean "willful use of unintended loopholes," I have nonetheless seen MANY references to exploits which accuse innocent and equally concientious people of wrongdoing. For example, what is the real definition of "overequipping?" Is that the use of equipment intended for characters above your level? Then what defines a character of you level...is that a "base," unmodified character, or one who has enhanced themselves WITHIN THE RULES FUNCOM HAS PROVIDED?

For example, if I use implants to buff my character by, say, +50 Rifle points, that allows me to use weapons of 10-12 levels (50/4-5 pts. per level...I forget the real limits, offhand) above my "actual." But what other purpose do implants serve than to increase skills? Is it an exploit to wear them at all?

More importantly, what would the world of Rubi-Ka be like without such benefits? A place of equal soldiers duking it out equally, falling by the hand of fate with perfect equity, like flips of a coin. The more we reduce the opportunities for an enterprising and zealous character to increase their power beyond the norm, the more reduce AO from chess to tic-tac-toe. And THAT is truly boring!

It is exceptionally dangerous to classify, and especially to "punish," exploiters. I have, and have known players who have, studied the rules PROVIDED BY FUNCOM, learned what the requirements were for self-improvement, and taken great pains and made tremendous sacrifices, in-game and in RL, to attain these rewards...only to have them nerfed. All that effort lost. The pinnacle of frustration. It's the equivalent of hitting a triple with one out in the 9th, only to have the umpire stop the game to add a 4th base between you and homeplate. There is nothing more frustrating or disheartening than having the rules of the game changed at half-time.

But exploiters exist...and always exist...in gaming. Gaute's example of Blizzard's "Diablo" was exceedingly appropriate. I remember the TREMENDOUS frustration of playing LAN games with my friends, having no save features to protect us, and suffering terrible bugs related to defenses Blizzard made against exploiters on their servers...only to have hackers PK wildly, and at will, in any case, as we "good" players were forced to suffer the protections. But enough about other products.

Here is my suggestion for a solution. Implement a server-side fix that de-equips ALL items ONE TIME. Send them to the bank, inventory, whatever. Give everyone a free backpack, if necessary, just to MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Then put a cap on all skills, relative to each character's level. Don't be WRONG about it. Do the math. What should people REASONABLY be able to do? Consider a character that wears the BEST implants for their level, uses EVERY one of the BEST buffs for their class, maybe even allow for "buddy buffs,"...then take an average of a few scenarios...perhaps +60/skill, and give them a hard cap. All numbers above the cap perform at the cap. This would do several things:

1) It would eliminate the need to CONTINUALLY check for overequipping...after the server-side de-equip, it could no longer be achieved without hacking the server.
2) It would permanently address the problem without monitoring it...buff all you want, you can only use X+hardcap equipment and nanos.
3) The trade for the new limit would be the allowance of overequipping even when skills are no longer met. Perhaps lower caps for equipment than for nano-skills, to address that imbalance issue.
4) It would eliminate the VERY MESSY AND MORALLY DEBATABLE issue of having to punish "exploiters," as they would all simply lose the option, whether their intentions were nefarious or innocent.

The last issue is the most important. It's one thing to have power taken away from you for doing what was allowed by the rules, with fair intentions. It is another still to be labelled a "cheat" for it. Don't punish the innocent with the guilty; please find a way to eliminate the problem without anyone having to suffer accusations or loss, if possible. I despise cheats and true "exploiters," but they will ALWAYS exist, and I can't play games that are completely eviscerated in an effort to stop them.

Finally, if Gaute is confident in the evidence against the offending organization, than punative action may be warranted. Just please be right, as you are addressing a large body which may contain innocent individuals.

Once again, my applause for caring and taking action. Please consider my ideas, and expand upon them as you think best, to find an amicable solution for all. The rules are yours, and we can but follow them. Do not change them lightly. Our money, character resources, and MANY precious, irreplaceable hours of our lives, hang in the balance.

[_____________potoole]

Originally posted by starknaked

First of all, it is only an issue that players care about regarding PVP. Nobody cares if they're fighting mobs in groups and others in their group are overequipped. "Oh no, Bob the Enforcer is hitting for too much damage, we're killing the mobs too easily, this is no fun!" No way, nobody has that problem.

Absolutely. Thank you. Looking at the poll that Funcom has been running it is pretty clear that most players don't rank PvP as very important. But a disproportionate amount of discussion seems to be expended on it. These attempts to fix PvP are making the game less fun for the majority who spend their time on missions or hunting. Why Funcom? Why?

In the context of PvP, people can do it or not. It's their choice. In the arenas, people tend to be pretty polite about asking whether people want to duel or not. If you don't want to fight someone that you feel is overequiped, then don't do it. If my two pillows scare you that much, don't fight me!

[______________Varsel]

First of all I want to say that Gaute's article was excellent!

¤Overequipping.

"There are many ways to handle over equipping or usage of items where you DON'T CURRENTLY MEET REQUIREMENTS. Right now we handle it in this way......" (My emphasis)

If you meet the skillrequirements you are not overequiping, period. So if you take pains to wear the best implants possible run buffs continually etc. Then you are NOT overequiping. And thus not target for any reduction in effectivness. Correct me if i'm wrong.

¤Starknaked regarding overequiping: "First of all, it is only an issue that players care about regarding PVP."

It might look that way but it certainly is an issue in PvM, albeit a subtle one. The overall level of the PC is the norm when deciding the toughness of MOBs at the same lvl. If many people overequip (As they do) they have to raise the hardness of MOBs.

A sidenote. PvP probably will become more predominant. Partly because of the the story. And as you gain levles you will have to be more and more in the PvP-zones. Like it or not.

¤SkillCaps:

I find this a rather bad idea. Your skillevels are not solely based on your profession. Your breed play a part too. It's easier for a Nanomage than an Atrox to raise an int-based skill if they both max int. So then you have more to count in besides profession when balancing these caps. I can really see an infected debate coming up if this would be implemented.

¤Starknaked: "..while soldiers will barely be affected at all."

So soldiers don't overequip?

¤Implants
You can boost your abilities and skills alot with implants. The big problem here is when you buff your abilities as high as possible and use intermediate implants you get implants much higher than your own level. I can (I play a doc) wear ql 125 implants(Selfbuffed) at level 65. It's my treatment that sets the limit.

But the solution is not to de-equip them if the requirements are not meet because the ability requirement is very uncertain.(Unless you use implantprograms) You might end up with an implant that uses your worst ability. The solution is actually very simple. 1. Make it easy to see what ability will be required before the implant is made. 2. Disable all implantboosts when switching them.

¤Regarding Abilitybuffs:
Nerf them a bit and make some self-only. They should just inform the community way ahead so they know whats coming. Heck, as now, I'm one of the big offenders in this area. IC anyone =)

Varsel
Family Doctor, 24-7

[Kinkstaah]

Overequipping is good. Do it. If you dont do it, then get someone else to help you.

Pvp was changed.. wait for it.. BECUASE EVERYONE IN PVP OVEREQUIPPED AND FIGHTS WERE TOO SHORT!

Overequipping is fun.

"Hey, I found this Ql180 (Itemname)!!! I am so happy, I can use it in 2 levels.. [/i]if[/i] I can find someone who can do (blah) and (blah) and if I use (x) implant.

This is good. EVERYONE has oppourtunities to do this. As there is a lack of trade skills atm, WHY CANT PEOPLES BUFFS BE TRADE SKILLS?

I think overequipping is good. I Think blantant exploiting should be dealt with harder if it is regarding another player (pvp) Therefore if you exploit to kill players then you should be come down upon like a ton of bricks.

[Kinkstaah]

On a side note - Just have ATK rating have a *major* effect on damage dealt.

So Joe, with a 200 attack rating WILL slam bob with a 150 attack rating, even if joe has a slightly lesser gun.

Or something. Maybe the numbers I used above are a bit too drastic but you get my point.

ATK rating should make a massive difference in how well you go. Personally I have no problems. AS IT STANDS it means certain classes have better times taking on other classes.

Traders take down NT's. NT's and classes with root should SLAM MA's (who cant break root without exploiting - which should be taken harshly, or better yet, FIXED by simply NOT ALLOWING hostile nanoprograms to run on self). Yet a MA will slam a trader at close range cause mr ma can still attack under a debuff.

Etc.

[__________starknaked]

A minor point, but no, soldiers are really not able to overequip their weapons. This is because they rely on too many skills like burst and full auto and flingshot, which really can't be buffed much or at all.

Whereas, some professions are able to massively overequip their weapons due to their weapons only requiring 1 or 2 skills which are highly buffable.

However, soldiers don't need to overequip, because just the weapons they can equip normally do huge damage.

[Nikki.]

First let me state what a great article. You pointed out all the options you have currantly and what the advantages and disadantages are. This has been what we have asked for all along. We want to know what you plan on doing to us because from the beginning you stated "Its your world now." Though I do think these articles should be directly linked to a specific thread instead of the find a dang forum and start posting idea. Give us a place to give our ideas to your specific questions.

Anyways Thanks

Next let me state on exploiting. I have exploited in the past. I have been warned for exploiting in the past. That doesnt mean what I did was bad just not as you intended. You never thought people would Kite huge amounts of creatures with a plane then have an NT kill everything with an AE spell with no fear since the creatures where aggroed on another person. This I think is a grey area which I was warned for and stopped doing.

What I do see though is you dont ban the true exploiters fast enough. When you could sell tokens I remember seeing one person on ebay selling about 10k worth of tokens each week. Just one person and doing it for over a month while stating he knew bugs to trade them even after your currant fixes. This just bugged the heck out of me to see him selling all of those obviously duped tokens with no fear. Heck he must have made 30k real life dollars off of all those tokens. What does he care if his account gets banned he will just buy another account if you got his REAL account that is.

Anyways you should deal harshly with the real issues and even ban all accounts with same credit card for currant and future use. Sure cards are easy to get but not for alot that would exploit. Since its mostly teenagers I have seen in past games that exploited. Of course there will be some that do have access to alot of cards and are looking to exploit but thats just one way to stop them.


Over-equiping
Over-equiping is a good thing. You forgot to mention why have trader buffs or short duration buffs if they have no real effect for its intended use. Wrangles where meant to give large bonuses for 1minute at a time. It was very unbalancing in the past though.

Right now I lean towards this idea for a fix. Go back and look at all the items you want effected. Then put a level requirement for each level of weapon. Something that will allow for what buffs are around and in that level range. Better weapons get harsher requirements. Lesser weapons should be easier and have lesser requirements put onto them. If you dont meet the level requirements you cant use the item.

This is the long way around the problem but it best fixes the problem you have. Not only do people know what they will be able to wear but will also give life to other weapons and stability of how people can equip and what is meant to be equiped. This way you know how to balance the mobs across the board.

As for debuffs they are not very good. The only classes it effects is casters. There should be another line of debuffs added that work on damage and such. This way you can debuff and know your just losing points of damage and not a weapon or armor. Your buffs need to be good but not too good. I have seen so many broken buffs and debuffs in the past. Like 600 to conceal is broken. -2400 to all inits is bad. Anything that buffs or debuffs hundreds of levels worth of levels is bad. Heck there shouldnt be any buff over 200 in anything. So thats why i suggest to debuff damage done and not the actual skills. But that just equals an ac buff really so its all unclear what to really do.

Anyways the level req on the weapon is fair. Something everyone can honestly meet and still be overequiped. Why??? Because you looked over each item personally so you know what should be possible. That should be the hard cap. That would fix over-equiping I think but would take some man hours to do. But it would make other less desireable items more desireable in the long run because of the time you put in to balance the lesser wanted items.

O well just a quick thought.

[__________Agent Ehks]

Varsel - I hear your fear about skill caps, but consider that breed SHOULD be taken into account with the caps, and that there should STILL be a difference (and a similar one) to what we have now between folks with "blue" skills and "green" skills. Also consider that implants and buffs don't care about your strengths and weaknesess; they buff you equally, and that's where the trouble lies, so I don't really get your argument (what you're objecting to can already be done). Reading your ideas, I see a lot of thought, but INFINITELY more potentials for new breaks. FunCom has to K.I.S.S. a solution, even if it steps on a few toes.

Furthermore, the observation that PvM is actually a problem too, while accurate, isn't that relevant. The old saying, "cheaters cheat themselves" is true. If you uber a PvM character and make the game boring, quit, your mistake, and we don't need you. If you have FUN doing that, more power too you, and no one should take that from you - you paid your money. Let each of us play our own style...that's our purchased right, and it hurts no one but us. Break the game to fight that, and you have a LOT more ticked off people fighting hard MOBS just to say you did something about PvM. PvP is the REAL problem.

One more thing I forgot to mention. There is a WIDE disparity between players, playing styles, and character potential, based upon how carefully a player has been developed. I've read countless complaints from other players about being slain by "ubercharacters" whom were clearly doing nothing untward, as well as a host of bragging by uberplayers casually discussing obviously-usable techniques that I couldn't even begin to copy for my ignorance of the posibilities (I couldn't even FATHOM the exploit Nikki was describing! :^).

The truth is that the whole point of an RPG is to TEACH and GROW your character. You CAN'T know everything...ever! Therefore it's a good bet that if somebody is doing better than you at the game, that they know something you don't.

Absolutely, challenge cheaters and blatant exploiters. But please take complaints with a grain of salt. I believe that Funcom, with the best of intentions, has made far too many changes based on knee-jerk reactions to players who may simply not have been playing the game, or their characters, to anywhere near optimal level. This is not the Special Olympics (and God love that organization! :^)...eveyone doesn't get a chance to "play too." This is war, and if you can't compete, you will die. So learn, train, and improve.

Let's help educate noobs, and collect FAR more information before making drastic changes. It is entirely possible that Aimed Shot, for example, was nerfed because many players fail to increase their Ranged Dodge score. That kind of "fix" is unacceptable.

When excellence is encouraged, many shall be left behind. That's reality. Again, I want to play chess...not tic-tac-toe.

P.S. Nikki is right (as are others who argued the point). "Overequipping is good." Without it, we should all fight naked at the same level (see "tic-tac-toe" above). As for debuffs, maybe overequipping (with temporary wrangles) should leave you able to use the weapon, but at a reduced effectiveness or even penalty for not having the reqs. Could be a can of worms, though.

By the way, if you're REALLY Nikki Dial, you can /tell Ehks ANYTIME YOU LIKE!!! ;^) Then again, you're probably just a fan, and therefore, probably a guy. lol!

[Cambist]

Personally I find overequipping quite neccessary, as a trader. I couldn't do my missions at level 55 without it. I can't imagine I'll be able to do higher level missions even with it. Wrangles also might be a good way to make money for me someday, since I really can't see myself doing the 20 step trade skill process.

One good idea that I thought might help was limiting buffs to people in your "grouping" range or lower.

If you could only get buffed by someone you could gain XP with or lower level than you, we wouldn't have as many problems with "uber" low level pvpers. This would also make people who are around the same level try and communicate and group together more. It should also keep people in reasonably leveled armor and weapons.

Anyway, this was an idea posted by jws that I rather liked... Keeps overequipping, but limits it to a large degree. Much like the comp-lit buff change for traders. However, you should really look at mob difficulty if you keep making these changes. Most of us overequip because we wouldn't be able to do missions or be viable in a group otherwise. It's rather expensive to equip this way and I'd probably not do it as much if I could live without it.

Couple of other thoughts. Kill the whole guild if that large a percentage of them are exploiters. It's been done in other games and mass bannings of exploiters make the game better in the end. Track bugs for a day before you fix them and ban everyone using them. Whatever kills the problem child's account. I don't see why you would only kill one account on a credit card, either.

Oh, I really didn't like the idea of unequipping your deck if you didn't meet requirements. You've already made trader comp-lit buffs self-only. Is that really neccessary?

-Sell-

[________________Ming]

Traders take down NT's. NT's and classes with root should SLAM MA's (who cant break root without exploiting - which should be taken harshly, or better yet, FIXED by simply NOT ALLOWING hostile nanoprograms to run on self). Yet a MA will slam a trader at close range cause mr ma can still attack under a debuff.

You are so wrong here.

1) MA's don't take down anyone. Our damage is capped out at high levels. Our attacks are for crap as long as you have decent AC. If you don't get out of PvP areas. I'm going to run up to you, Mr. Trader, and dimach you for 40%, then brawl you for 200, then hit you for 50's. If you can't handle that, your character just sucks and shouldnt even be in a pvp area. Add on your debuffs that make me unable to heal myself and please! If you can't beat an MA, you just suXXOr. Root makes us 100% dead, no chance, dead. We stand there looking stupid for a few minutes and just die. It's humilitating. Piss off with your root.

2) Root destroys an MA. That's not fun. Your class doesn't become helpless due to any one thing in the game, why should mine? Sure raise nano resist...UM to 700? I DONT THINK SO.

3) Glad you can take down NT's. That's just great. So they need someone to take down then, is that it? Root is stupid as it is. I'll continue to break it using every method known to god and man, and dimach the living b'jesus out of anyone who uses it on me. If they ban me for that then I'll consider myself ridded of a waste of my time. Because as is, root is BS.

[____________Greystar]

As it is, there are several professions that could not compete solo without overequipping, maybe even most professions, if you count in implants. At this time PvM is balanced for overequipping, not the other way around, if overequipping would get changed, all mob strength would have to be changed, some few professions who do not need to overequip, due to selfbuffs will be totally uber compared to other professions, and most powerful selfbuffs would need to be taken out as a followup as well. It would be a mess.

When I started playing AO I was hooked by the absolutely new concept of buffing/implanting skills to use items. This was a first in the gaming world, and gave AO a strategic element, where you need to think before you do something, not like in other games like DaoC where you just have your 2-4 skill lines and pump your points in and get all spells every level automatically.

It is not an easy to grasp concept, but it makes AO unique. There are some players, who do not want to think, do not want to plan, do not want to put in work to make their characters better and those complain about people who do and fare better in AO than they are and scream "exploit".

I fear they will succeed to make AO as linear as any other game on the market, especially as the producers seem to think those are the majority, which I doubt if you remember the fiasco with the disabling weapons/armor plan. At that time a small part of the "real" majority voiced their concerns and Funcom saw the most players ever writing about one topic in the boards and they dropped the idea immediately.

[Myga]

Equipping your char always been one of the features of RPGs for me. In all of them I start out damn weak, but by working on equipment and levels I am able to better my abilities. This is the way it is and IMO should be in more or less any RPG. To me this is what defines the genre, it is what makes me and I'm sure alot others spend time in RPGs, compared to first person perspective shoot em up games like Quake. At lower lvls you can get pretty powerful compared to mobs your lvl by taking your time to get good equipment for your lvl.

However as you get to the higher lvls, "overequipping" is a must. I am 97 now. Even in 50% missisons I get mobs like Mantis Drone who has about 10k hp and hit for 120 minimum damage and fast. Even using all the tricks I can for my class and despite the fact that this one never hit me for more than minimum damage, I cant solo this one unless I have alot of lucky hits! This is with a ql 181 gun and ql 107+ armor. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to see what will happen if I suddenly am limited to a ql 100 gun.

Besides I think its a insult to the ppl who do PVP and take time to get good equipment for their char. It would throw their effort away. Ppl are angry because they loose in PVP, however aint it fair that they should have to take the time to equip themselves and be prepared before going into fight next time? If this isnt a legal tactic then you might as well let all PVP be like this from now: 2 players fight, roll a dice, highest roll wins other dies. Or better yet make a quake game, however that model aint plausible here where you play on 1 central server where many have high latency connections (Quake is maybe 50% connection/hardware, 50% skill). Also I think ppl need to realize that some classes will be better than others solo in PVP, others can do great in teams. This is how it is in any PVP game and IMO it should be that way. Also some classes will be strong PVP, some will be strong soloing, and some will be strong in teams. All this has to be considered into the balance.

Ever since I started almost every patch has changed something in this game which makes it harder. Each change has IMO unbalanced the game. The mobs are getting to damn hard to solo at 90-120+ (solo has repeatedly been stated as an alternative by funcom). You end up either zoning in and out a million times or you die. When is there a change coming which makes US more powerful? If a "solution" to overequipping is made it must be accompanied with a similar change to either player or mobs power. If you double damage output from players or reduce mobs hp to half and maybe it can work. Anything else will really make me quit this game, because its awfully unbalanced as it is today, you simple CANNOT make it harder now.

[Myga]

As for debuffs they are not very good. The only classes it effects is casters. There should be another line of debuffs added that work on damage and such.

Let me clear up this. This is false. If a NT has 1000mat crea skill and get divested and plundered for 300 skill he can only use nanos requiring 700mc. However those nanos will still do the same damage they did with 1000mc. If a agent with 1000atk get divested and plundered for 300 skill he will have 700atk which will make him do ALOT less damage than when he has 1000atk with same weapon. I think this debuffs are pretty much just as effective against both casters and fighters.

[______________Chimar]

Until someone can show me how to over-equip a new set of fists, MAs will be severly disadvantaged by over-equipping.

Our fist damage caps out.
MA weapons are soooo rare and are completely borked right now thats they are just too frustrating to use.
Sure we can over equip armor, but that doesnt do much against an NT or agent who just root and shoot us to death. We arent even a challenge to them, we are easy pickings. If we do break root, with our capped damage we wont wipe the floor with them like we should... chances are we will be so hurt by the time we get to them they only need to get off one more shot to finish us off.


Over-Equipping would be fine if it was available to everyone to increase their classes potential, but it does little for the MA. It there-fore puts the other classes, and not just the so called "over-achievers" at a greater advantage.


Hell maybe I should just start using a big hammer like an Enforcer...

[Nikki.]

MSag
Let me clear up your clearification. High level NTs dont walk around with 1000 MC (atleast not wihtout alot of buffs.) A soldier does walk around with 1k attack rating easy. You see when we get debuffed we often drop down from 800-850MC down to 500-550 MC and thats the truely high level NTs. Now go look at what spells are available to an NT with only 500ish MC that was using 800ish NFs. It renders us useless, completely. Not only that we have to go hunt for a spell to use for those cases. That isnt an option because there really is no spells that matter at 500ish for the levels we are. The soldier though just keeps fireing away with no real change except a little less damage.

Does that fully explain whats wrong now? We git hit to useless status. Gun classes just do a little less damage.

[skybert]

Won't overequippers bite themselves in the tail?

I mean, if someone wield ql 200 weapons (a lvl90-something said he used a ql 180 gun earlier in this thread, so a lvl 110 could maybe wield a ql 200 gun). What then?That character will never get better weapons/armour/things...

When the mobs get harder, and the characters don't get any betetr, I see a problem arising.

Currently, I am a lvl 57 Enforcer. I use ql 75 armour, implants & weapon. All I do is self-buffs. None of my equippment needsbuffs from other characters to wear. Is that over-equipping as well?
(Challenger-line&basic buff to raise weapon skills. If I used blunt, headcracker would increase it even more.
Essence-line and general buffs helps me with my armour. Surgery clinics and medic clothes gives me the treatment i need to equip the implants.)
Am I overequipping?
I think not. But I fear for the day, when I can use ql200 items (prolly long time before lvl 200). Then what?

In my opinion, this game is made for overequipping (why else have so many buffs for it?), but maybe it should be restricted somewhat...

If you normally cannot equip the item (item beeing weapon/armour/aggro enhancers/vehivcles/whatever), it is because it si too 'advanced' for you. You temperarely gain some kind of insight on how to use it, and thus can equip it, but when the buff runs out, the item is still as difficult to use, and you don't fully 'understand' how to use it, thus a penalty should be issued.

Let's say you can use a ql 80 item unbuffed, and buff yourself up so you can use a ql 100 item. You equip the ql 100, and when the buffs wear off (or you get debuffed), the item ACTS as if it was ql 80, even if it's ql 100. Because you're not 'smart enough' to use the ql 100, but you're smart enough to use a ql 80.

I've made this suggestion before, on the old forum, and it is also mentioned by Gaute as one of the possible sollutions. (at least very close).

Anyway, if overequipping is to be stopped (or reduced), why not make a level requirement or title-lvl req on the items, allowing a small degree of overequipping. (a ql 200 item cannot be worn by anyone below lvl 170. Or something like that....)

[Isisnorfret]

The QL on items is pretty wierd. Items of the same QL can have widely varying requirements on thier skill. A ql 130 beam and 160 hammer have about the same requirements from what I understand (maybe be wrong, but thats how I remember it.)

Since the QL of items doesn't really correspond to the level of players, having a cap on items at lvl 200 doesn't seem right, and all this talk about over-equipping is kind of tainted by it. If you cut off over-equipping at 20 ql's above your lvl, then enfs wouldn't be able to use hammers that they met the requirements for unbuffed. I'm sure it applies to other weapons as well, longmoons vs. haxor's for example. QL 90 longmoon QL 110 haxor have about the same requirements.

So, to summarize my unfocused ramblings (having the flu doesn't help concentration sorry) a hard cap on QL lvl for items is totally unfeasible. Making weapon useless / uneffective after buff wears off means traders and 2h blunt enf's won't be hurt as much, every other class gets nerfed.

I also don't like the idea of making the item behave as if it were a QL of an item of its type that meets your skill. Really removes a lot of the variety out of the game, at that point you might as well keep using the weapon you start with and have your skill totally determine how good you are with it. Boring.

My opinion - drastic changes are unnecessary, the game works find as it is. Lessen up the effects of nano debuffs so NT's quit whining and leave the rest alone.

Over-equipping is one of the things that makes AO so interesting.