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Thread: How to calculate skills/dependencies and the meaning of their color???

  1. #1

    How to calculate skills/dependencies and the meaning of their color???

    I am trying to figure out how to add in dependencies into my skills while also takeing into consideration the color of my skills and abillities.

    using Comp Lit as an example:
    Comp Lit is dependant 100% on Intelligence, lets pretend every skill is the same color and there are no facts and figures to what color the skill or abillity is. ok, after leveling and maxing those skills for my lvl (21) with no other bonus's efecting those skills, my Comp Lit is 56 and Intell is 66; If i do what is shown below:

    intell(66)/comp-lit(56)=1.178571429

    1.178571429*Intel-boost(12)=14.14285715

    comp-lit(56)/14.14285715=3.959595958

    I concluded that 12 intel buff =3.959595958 comp-lit and 1 intel=3.959595958/12=0.32996632983 comp-lit.

    Now i know this calculation isnt right but its got to be close, i did this with my 21 Martial Artist with dark blue intell and light blue comp-lit and tested it with the Intell boost and sure enough it was almost right on the money.

    I then made a calculator in excel after i broke up the product into ten equal parts and used that for the percentages of dependencies for my skills but some skills showed to be alot higher than i would expect after i entered my abillities, so i realized that the color of the skills play a big role and they too have some kind of percentage's and/or facts an figures that go with them as well

    I could really use some help understanding this stuff, all this data is going to a program i am building which will automatically calculate in skill dependencies as your abillities change but i also want to calculate in the meaning of the different colored skills. Any info on this will be greatly appreatiated.
    if my e-mail isnt already attached its: RCS300@msn.com

  2. #2
    4 int = 1 complit trickledown.
    Skills that are 60% str/40% stamina takes a little more thought to calculate.

    http://aomainframe.info/
    Rightside, look for "Nillan's Skill emulator". Download and install (requires .NET)

    There used to be more emulators, but I can't seem to find them ATM...
    Last edited by skybert; Nov 1st, 2005 at 06:38:30.

  3. #3

    Cool

    thanks for the info, i didnt even know there were one of those out. I downloaded it and messed around a bit with it, though its a very nice program to have around, I would like to learn how the skills are calculated and the color interaction with the skills so i can begin to develope my own program which may possibly be distributed among the AO Community someday.

    I did a bunch of stuff in excel that is very simular to the Skills Emulator program in many ways but im pretty much gonna scrap it and start a new because my personal calculations are not correct and to make it more user friendly, then ill start on VB for extra friendlyness i can do it all in Excel for the most part but i still got alot to learn in VB to really get crackin.

  4. #4
    Darkbane has a Skill Calc. that includes source code. You may want to check this out.

    AOSkills2
    Last edited by setse; Nov 1st, 2005 at 18:05:02.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

    Setse

  5. #5
    And if you examine the source (specifically modSkills.vb) you'll get a reasonable idea of what's going on (or what's going on in a very good approximation anyway...)

    Code:
        ' *** calculate trickle-down from abilities to skills ***
        Public Function calcTrickleDown(ByVal abilities() As Integer, ByVal skillID As Integer) As Integer
            Dim i As Integer
            Dim weightedAbility As Double = 0
    
            For i = 0 To 5
                weightedAbility = weightedAbility + (abilities(i) * skillAbilities(skillID, i))
            Next
            Return roundUp(weightedAbility / 4.0)
        End Function
    Where abilities() is an array of the 6 ability scores, and skillAbilities() is an array of the relative fractions each ability contributes to the trickle-down of a given skill (skillID).

    Skill colour gives an approximate indication of skill cost (that is how many IP going from N to N+1 will cost you), each colour represents a range of costs (see the skillCosts() array for the actual numbers and the costToRate() array for how those numbers relate to things like number of increases per level and title caps).

    Every skill is the sum of it's base value, the number of bought increases, the trickle-down and any buffs from nanos, equipment, perks etc.
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

    AO Character Skill Emulator and Character Parser and AO Implant Layout Helper

  6. #6
    Simple to calculate your skill in it any skill. Take the base abilites, multiply times the ammount that the ability is weighted, like 1.0 if its INT for CL, then you just multiply that product by 0.25, and thats your skill. You can use this for calculating buffs too, such as how much Neuronal Stimulator will buff your nanoskills, heres the math.

    (Buff)*(Dependency on Intelligence)*(Base Trickledown Modifier)=Trickledown

    20*0.8*0.25=4 Which means that all your nanoskills rise 4 points from NS.

    EDIT: Oh yah, color has nothing to do with how much it will trickledown. Until shadowlevels all the color of the skill bar does it gives you a general idea of how much IP it will cost to raise that skill, from least to most IP: Green, Teal, Light Blue, Dark Blue. But starting in the ShadowLevels, the color of the skill also indicates how much IP you can put into that skill per level, such as 10 or 15 whatever. However, color of the skill never affects trickledown.
    Last edited by EldarZach; Nov 5th, 2005 at 02:27:12.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by EldarZach
    (Buff)*(Dependency on Intelligence)*(Base Trickledown Modifier)=Trickledown

    20*0.8*0.25=4 Which means that all your nanoskills rise 4 points from NS.


    OK EldarZach, that confirms that im doing this right, but i have inconsistencies
    in some skills using this formula, I have an excel program that i must explain before i tell you the inconsistencies. I made key to make it easier when refering to cell's in excel which goes like this:
    10%=0.025
    20%=0.05
    30%=0.075
    40%=0.1
    50%=0.125
    60%=0.15
    70%=0.175
    80%=0.2
    100%=0.25
    In my excel program i have 4 main columns, the first column is where you can input all your skills when your not waring armor, accessories, or buffs(when your naked);

    the second column is an output which displays how many points increase each skill as a resault of an increase of abillities from armor, buffs, accessories, and implants; uses the same formula as you did but only aplies to added abillities from
    armor, accessories, buffs, and implants.

    the third column is an output that shows you all your totals when you add in your armor, accessories, buffs, and implants; this column adds abillities from the first column and the fourth column to display total abillities, then adds skills from the first column plus the added skills from the second column to get total skills after you increase you abillities from armor, accessories, buffs, and implants

    the fourth column gives you a place to add in extra abillities/skills that you get from Buffs, armor, accessories, and implants.

    I have checked the cells many times to make for sure everything is correct and everything checked out ok, but some skill totals are not correct like Piercing for example; my piercing skill is at 20 when i am naked, i then put on my Strength, Agillity, and Sense Boost which is +12 and piercing is 20% dependant on strength, 50% dependant on agillity, and 30% dependant on stamina i didnt give myself stamina boost so only strength and agility go in the equation.
    My abillities after the str, agi, and sense boost are:
    str=90
    agi=65
    stm=73
    intell=66
    sense=57
    psy=46
    So (0.05*12)=0.6, and (0.125*12)=1.5, total is (0.6+1.5)=2.1
    Which means that my piercing skill should be 22.1, but it shows ingame that its 23, this happens to a few skills and im not sure what the problem is. I heard that some where in the dependancy calculation numbers are being rounded but i cant find where that is happening.

    this makes me wander if maybe if somewhere in the dependancy calculations numbers are being rounded then rounded again to make the skills even numbers, or maybe the skills are not rounded and all of our skills actually have decimal places in them.
    But I dont know im kind of stumped right now, ive been working on this so much latley i think i fried my brain.
    Last edited by stonehaven; Nov 8th, 2005 at 09:18:38.

  8. #8
    Code:
            Return roundUp(weightedAbility / 4.0)
    roundUp() does exactly what it say, rounds any fractions up to the next highest integer... so one quarter of (20% of 90 + 50% of 65 + 30% of 73) is 18.1 which rounds up to 19, add in the base skill value of 4, and we get 23...
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

    AO Character Skill Emulator and Character Parser and AO Implant Layout Helper

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbane
    Code:
            Return roundUp(weightedAbility / 4.0)
    roundUp() does exactly what it say, rounds any fractions up to the next highest integer... so one quarter of (20% of 90 + 50% of 65 + 30% of 73) is 18.1 which rounds up to 19, add in the base skill value of 4, and we get 23...
    Ok, but that doesnt explain my melee-energy skill which is at 22 before the str, agi, and sense boost and 22.9 after, ingame it reads 22 using the same example as above, melee-ener is dependant 30% dependant on stamina, intell, sense, and 10% on Psy, so sense is the only thing effecting this skill;
    (0.075*12)=.9
    (22+0.9)=22.9

    If i round up then that should make my melee-ener skill 23 but it reads 22 ingame, so it appears that some skills are being rounded up and some down, there may be more to it than that.

  10. #10
    two things... you can't simply calculate the effect of the bonus seperately from the stats like that, you must calculate it from actual totals, and secondly, melee energy is 50% sta, 50% int...
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

    AO Character Skill Emulator and Character Parser and AO Implant Layout Helper

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbane
    two things... you can't simply calculate the effect of the bonus seperately from the stats like that, you must calculate it from actual totals, and secondly, melee energy is 50% sta, 50% int...

    Cool thx for the info and pointing out that depedancy error on melee ener, which reminds me i got that information from http://www.lotekk.net/ao/trickle/index.php , so remember some info for the trickle down will be wrong if you use it.

    I'll go ingame and fix any errors that may be effecting my program and post again after that but i want to make sure something else is right with the new info you provided,
    When you start a new character and all your skills are 6, then rounding the way you explained would mean that from your abillities at 6 would give all your skills 2 points which means that there is 4 leftover points in all your skills.

    Thanks for the help!

  12. #12
    Correct, base skill is 4... everything else on a new char is from initial trickle-down.
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

    AO Character Skill Emulator and Character Parser and AO Implant Layout Helper

  13. #13
    Thats great Darkbane,
    I updated my program and at a detailed glance it seems to be working great now, except one skill is inconsistan when i have strength, agility, and sense boost running.

    Full Auto reads 20 but ingame its 25, also when i use nillans skill emu its also off by 5 points.

    I made sure the formulas are correct but im still getting that difference.

    Also i was gonna list another skill that was not calculating right which is Trap Disarm, but I found that the dependancies listed ingame are wrong. I think the abillities are correct but the percentage is wrong with one of them but im not sure which one.

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