Cz about the Fair vs Nice in Item Reimbursment

**Oberan** · Mar 13th, 2002, 21:35:40

I recently lost ALOT of high end expensive items due to two bugs

-bug number 1
Mirror Door - Died running a mission on the way out becasue the doors stopped opening for me and i was trapped and mobs that were not in the same room killed me

-bug number 2
Server Crash - well its got to be a bug right

Well the deal is i lost the items because the server crashed while i was looting the reclaim terminal. I was about 75% done looting (all but about 5 items) when Avalon suddenly crashed. Log back noticing my character has none of the items i just looted in my inventory and i am frantically hoping nothing happened. Immediately tried to use the reclaim terminal (it said "your remains are being reconstructed"). Waited the time and finally got to open the reclaim terminal. But what i had looted before the crash was NOT there. Nor did i have it in my inventory, bank or overflow.

I immediately petitioned but was told that there was nothing they could do for me after waiting nearly 45 minutes for my petition to be answered

Now which would catagory would item reimbursal have fit under for me

I beleive item reimbursment would have been at the very LEAST the fair thing to do. not just the nice thing to do. In the other thread about the MKII being traded to a pet i understand thats game mechanics but is loosing items to factors that i wasn't responsible for part of the game mechanics?

BTW the running list of what i remember i lost is

Full set of q200 flowers (8 peices including both male and female)
backpack with several kinds of reflect bracers
Rat Catcher Goggles
Enforcer Nball (melee interpretting)
Q200 Primus Decus Coat
Q165ish Primus Decus Coat
5x q200 NCU chips
2x Baby Blue Bronto Boots
White Sack
several vehicles in a sack
q200 Rider Executioner
bout 750-1000 q125 health kit charges
bout 300-500 q90 nano kit charges
q150 heavy tank armor
Kattara and Kellaar sunglasses
3 peices of the dodga part 2 mission
185ish nano formula recompiler
q200 biomech cloak

pretty much all of these items were inside various bags i had on my inventory (except the chargers and the biomech cloak which i got from the mission i died on the way out of)

From what i remember those were the items in there that i think im missing and as far as i know i am being honest and accurate (i dont remember putting other stuff in there or taking it out) . Im probably missing more and some of them really dont matter. What matters to me the most were the unique items

From what i remember this happened either sunday or monday (most likely monday) at around 2pm CST.

What are your views on this?

**Sorzella** · Mar 15th, 2002, 22:48:02

I am just reporting that I have also lost many items due to FUncom server crashes.. Last Friday I made up a backpack of goodies to transfer to one of my alts and was in Omni Ent.. Got someone from my org to hold them for me, and as soon as he accepted the trade, Omni Ent went down.. When we came back on finally I did not have the pack or money and nor did he.. I have made many transferrs with this person, yet when I finally got a GM to answer my petition (2 days it took), he tells me that all he can see is that the trade was successful.. That my Friend had the items.. Basically calling my friend a LIAR.. Like I said I have made transferrs with this person very many times and hes never screwed me, hes a good friend who didnt even need anything in the pack.. The server crashed immediatly after the transfer was done, and Funcom tells me the 'trade' was successful.. I asked them yeah but the server crashed without saving the items into the inventory.. "Sorry there is nothing I can do".. About 10million+ worth of items lost.. Not much money only a million, but the items took me a LONG ass time to gather up for my Alt.. So Funcom refuses to reimburse me and basically called my friend a lair, yet wouldnt check to see if he still had the pack or traded/sold it.. Thanks alot Funcom this in INEXCUSABLE!!!

Sorzella 130 Nano NT -
-Omni-Scummette Pistol Slinger Extraordinare
-Mother and Provider to her little family of Omni scum Alts
-President of the Insomniacs Foundation
- You can pry my pistols from my cold dead hands, wait no you cant they are in reclaim..

Scum Alts include:
Sorzetta 46 Opi Agent
Sorzanna 24 Opi Fixer <---- Evil Clanner, outcast of a sister...
Sorzina 21 Solitus Soldier
Trancefactor 29 Solitus Trader
Tranzmetic 32 Atrox Doctor
Brakkhus 16 Atrox Enforcer
Hollownymph 5 Solitus Meta

**________________kfox** · Mar 16th, 2002, 00:52:53

I agree...but before Funcom is going to be able to reimburse you for your item, they are going to have to developed adequate logging procedures to see EXSACTLY what happen, other wise the reimbursel policy would be WIDE open for exploitation...Funcom really needs to get on the ball on this...

**Beartwo** · Mar 18th, 2002, 16:18:49

Originally posted by Oberon
I recently lost ALOT of high end expensive items due to two bugs.

BTW the running list of what i remember i lost is

Full set of q200 flowers (8 peices including both male and female)
backpack with several kinds of reflect bracers
Rat Catcher Goggles
Enforcer Nball (melee interpretting)
Q200 Primus Decus Coat
Q165ish Primus Decus Coat
5x q200 NCU chips
2x Baby Blue Bronto Boots
White Sack
several vehicles in a sack
q200 Rider Executioner
bout 750-1000 q125 health kit charges
bout 300-500 q90 nano kit charges
q150 heavy tank armor
Kattara and Kellaar sunglasses
3 peices of the dodga part 2 mission
185ish nano formula recompiler
q200 biomech cloak

What are your views on this?

Sorry for your loss, but why on earth are you running missions/hunting with all this stuff in you inventory?

I am assuming that you are already wearing full armor withtank/coat and your main weapon(s).

Seems a bit silly to risk it, when we all know that items have disappeared before when you die and probably will again.

**Meetshield** · Mar 18th, 2002, 16:32:34

For all the bad press Verant gets for their terrible Customer Service (and it is pretty bad) at least they will replace items lost if they are extremely valuable. I had a guildmate that lost his epic due to a server reset/rollback. He petitioned a GM and got his epic back. If that were FunCom, they would have said "Sorry about your bad luck..."

**_____________Paldorr** · Mar 18th, 2002, 16:46:19

I would hope that Funcom would NOT replace anything without log-verifying that it was, in fact, lost to a bug.

In a case like Claire's loss of a nullity 2 sphere to a bot, I would have hoped the fair thing would have been to replace it. They DID verify she gave both pieces to then bot. The fact that you even COULD trade with a bot was undocumented. An undocumented "ability" that resulted in this loss IS a bug in my book.

**________________Miir** · Mar 18th, 2002, 18:59:58

Losing items to a server crash is a bug.
In other words, it's beyond the players control and it's the result of a software/hardware bug.

The items should be verified and reimbursed.

Losing items due to carelessness is not a bug.
The player had complete control over the situation and gave the items to a pet.

The items should not be reimbursed.

**_____________Paldorr** · Mar 18th, 2002, 19:22:20

If the ability to trade with a bot was undocumented and unknown then it was a bug until documentation saying "yes it was our intent" is out there to find.

Suppose a patch went in to fix cockpits of yalmaha planes. You're in a mission and suddenly your weapon dropped out of your hand after the patch because some trader mob deprived you. You are stunned into disbelief wondering what happened and then instantly ported to reclaim, less a million in xp.

If the patch notes stated that weapons would drop when abilities were below minimums to equip then it is your own fault. If they didn't - it's a bug i.e. a change in the way the game behaves that's unexpected/unintended. If it wasn't in the patch notes it's unintended and certainly unexpected by the players.

To me it's no different than a playfield crash. Either way, IF the items can be verified as having been lost due to actions that the player could not reasonably be expected to have any knowledge of or control over, then they should be replaced.

**________________Miir** · Mar 18th, 2002, 21:00:42

So if I die from falling damage getting out of my Yalmaha, can I whine for a XP reimbursement because it's not documented?

To me it's no different than a playfield crash.

One is harware error.
The other is player error.

IF the items can be verified as having been lost due to actions that the player could not reasonably be expected to have any knowledge of or control over, then they should be replaced.

The player has COMPLETE CONTROL to cancel the trade if the chat window indicates the trade target is not the intended target.

**________________Miir** · Mar 18th, 2002, 21:07:34

If someone chooses to ignore the Trading with <PET NAME> in their chat window, should Funcom reimburse the item?

If someone drops an item on the ground and ignores the Item dropped on ground in their chat window, should Funcom reimburse the item?

If someone ignores the Are you sure you want to delete this item dialog box, and clicks yes, should Funcom reimburse the item?

**________________Miir** · Mar 18th, 2002, 21:52:07

Logic prevails!

**________________Miir** · Mar 18th, 2002, 21:53:41

By they way, the ability to trade with pets and, mobs and NPCs was added just after Christmas.

**________________Miir** · Mar 18th, 2002, 21:54:48

Oops, thats 5 posts in a row.

BAD SPAMMER!!!

/me smacks herself

**______________Ladeda** · Mar 19th, 2002, 00:21:00

All I know is that I have lost a whole bunch of items to server crashes. I've sent in bug reports, petitioned, and emailed FunCom over and over to no effect. It's happened ever since the game was released. And has victimized everyone of my characters. Many of them more than once!!

I am so pissed about this issue - well I'm not really rational anymore.

I just "feel" like FunCom should "suffer" for it's lack of customer service.

**_____________Wenzell** · Mar 19th, 2002, 02:24:50

I lost my crat suit 2 days ago to a crash.

Got a msg from GM, "sorry we cannot reimburse your item at this time blablabla"

Crat suit is nodrop, its not like I can transfer to any other person and ask for another from FC anyway. I did own it for quite some time, a search on ur char backup can easily verify it.

Now that I have to go camp and steal boss loot from other lower lvl peeps in dungeon. Dont blame me if I take over your spawn or something, blame FC. sigh

Wenzell
lvl 189 Crat who doesnt own a crat suit !

**______________Ladeda** · Mar 19th, 2002, 14:11:36

You know I'm begining to suspect Employees of FunCom of intentionally "raping" some of us! That way they can force us to go online and buy credits from their characters and can make money on the side!?! But like I said before.... I'm so mad about this I guess I'm not completely rational anymore

Oh btw, my missions these days provide almost NO Loot!! I can do a mission that takes 2hr+ and come out with less than 1 bag of loot. And what is there is worthless - lots of Maps to Mort and Newland and lots of furniture (when you still can't put more than 11 items in your apartment). I mean why have all these locked chests when they're allways empty?? I don't need XP I need credits!

**______________Wahoo.** · Mar 19th, 2002, 14:41:05

Originally posted by Wenzell
I lost my crat suit 2 days ago to a crash.

Got a msg from GM, "sorry we cannot reimburse your item at this time blablabla"

Crat suit is nodrop, its not like I can transfer to any other person and ask for another from FC anyway. I did own it for quite some time, a search on ur char backup can easily verify it.

Now that I have to go camp and steal boss loot from other lower lvl peeps in dungeon. Dont blame me if I take over your spawn or something, blame FC. sigh

Wenzell
lvl 189 Crat who doesnt own a crat suit !

That bytes.

**_____________Paldorr** · Mar 19th, 2002, 14:58:39

Miir - you truly ARE anal

5 times, no less

Games are for fun - not stress. It's more fun for everyone to not be so anal and just give the damn thing back.

**________________Miir** · Mar 19th, 2002, 18:59:29

It's called policy and precedent.

If they give the items back in this instance, they are setting the precedent that they will take responsibility for player error and/or carelessness.

Giving the items back would be Funcom essentially admitting that they were at fault.

These message forums and the petition queue would be filled with people making potentially fradulent claims of lost items. If people know that Funcom will give in to players on instances such as this, they will try to take advantage of them.

**________FileNotFound** · Mar 19th, 2002, 19:57:59

Originally posted by Miir
It's called policy and precedent.

If they give the items back in this instance, they are setting the precedent that they will take responsibility for player error and/or carelessness.

Giving the items back would be Funcom essentially admitting that they were at fault.

These message forums and the petition queue would be filled with people making potentially fradulent claims of lost items. If people know that Funcom will give in to players on instances such as this, they will try to take advantage of them.

They are already....doens't really change anything.

Just make it instant 7 day ban for fradulant claims.

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