Some things about the soldier class

[_______Spookymonster]

a SMART NT at my level has on the fly recompile and a very HIGH ql recompiler, and he can get off his 2-3k dds a LOT faster than I can get off bursts.

Not trying to be a smart-ass here, but could you clarify on this some more?

Burst doesn't have a charge-up time; you hit the key on your keyboard, and BANG!

DD formulas always have a charge-up/casting time, regardless of how high their nano init gets. I believe Funcom designed it so that no initiative skill could reduce the related attack speed (ranged, melee, or nano) to less than .5 seconds.

Also, since it might help your explaination some, what exactly is your level?

Edit:
In re-reading your post, I think I might understand what you are saying now. Do you mean that NTs are able to use a DD formula more than once in the time it would take you to recharge burst? If so, then you are correct. Unfortunately, the fling/burst/full auto alpha strike has no charge-up timer, so the NT is unlikely to survive the casting of his first DD, nevermind a second one.

This wasn't so bad before Funcom nerfed NT ranges - if an NT could keep himself out of your range, then he deserved to win. Now, with a 40m cap for all attacks, NTs have no choice but to come in range of your guns...

[__________NicholaSix]

I am talking about recharge in regards to burst vs DD nanos, and I am also talking about balancing the soldier for PVM, not PVP. I am also trying not to compare classes. I used that as an example earlier to point out that classes are different and should not all be the same.

I don't know if there should be a delay before a soldier's burst, but I would support a reasonable delay between "special" attacks as that has little PVM signifigance. If there is a delay between attacks I want a clear timer bar so i can see when the delay is over. PVM is what I'm concerned about.

Edit:

My level and the levels of my equipment are at the end of my previous post

[_______Spookymonster]

My appologies - I guess my eyes skipped over your level when I first posted.

As for PvM - more power to ya! My only real complaint with Soldiers, Agents, etc. is in PvP balancing. Hope this clears things up.

[______________AgentX]

ULTRA1, sorry if I offended you by my laugh comment. It was unintentional, I just found it kinda funny.

That aside, you mentioned something about the only special attack (in PvM) that you were able to use twice was fling. Do you finish mobs off that fast? Let me give an example (this is pre 13.0). I could start off a fight with an AS and pre 13 that was not too good as we all know. Lets say I then changed my gun to a gluegun to be able to use some more specials. Fighting a green would allow me to use fling close to 5 times (depending on crits of course). Thats how long it took me to kill that green "bastard".

I don't want to ruin soldiers or make agents uber. I just want a game where we all can be happy. And yes, I don't think PvP should be perfectly balanced. PvM on the other hand I would like to see mostly balanced cause all of us *have* to do missions for money.

[__________NicholaSix]

Flingshot is basically an extra normal attack, there is no special damage bonus attached to it. Specials recycle on the timer of the weapon that last used them. Novas you get 2 flings per normal PVM fight, about a 45 sec recharge, and it gives you one extra instant normal shot. If you use fling on say a stiner it takes 3 min or so to refresh.

[______________AgentX]

You are right of course regarding Flingshot. I "forgot" that it is per weapon. Anyways, my point still somewhat holds. I was trying to picture how long my fights againts greens lasts. I'm not uber equipped, but not too bad either. I have implants in place for all major skills, and those are also maxed. On top of that comes the buffs of course. I'm not even getting into the stuff on how FC have handled the installation of implants. What I'm really getting at here is that the way thngs are now you *have* to be uber equipped (See my other post on "The art of perfection..."

[______________Cyborg]

Please kindly read what others think of your post from the old forums.
http://archive.aoforums.funcom.com/s...0&pagenumber=1

So am I the only bitter and angry one ?
No, some people just need to get a clue.


Before you have trouble soloing oranges, now you have trouble with 50% missions. which is it ?

[__________________RZ]

PvP:
I think Funcom should just make 1 class 1 race 1 kind of weapon, and limit your attack people of your level, then it will be balanced.

PvM:
I think Funcom should just make mob hit like player, tank like a player, with hp like a player and most important regen like player, then it will be balanced.

Roleplay:
Funcom, let them have their "Role" back. *think*

[__________NicholaSix]

I read it, seems like a lot of people agree with me. It seems like a few don't.

I don't know why asking to have BUGS fixed for my class is so offensive to you, and honestly I don't care, because you discounted any VALUE I'd ever hold your opinion for after your first post.

[Whiterrabbit]

Sorry, whats wrong with the soldier? everyone you see doesn't die instantly?

If you think PvM is hard as a soldier, try it as a crat, or an engineer or a fixer.

Solider is one of the best combat classes, there are a few bugs here and there, but i think there are classes suffering more than soldiers, dont you? These bugs will be fixed and soon you'll be right as rain (as soon as they unnerf stuff and halve the mobs hps), but there are people out there who can barely solo greens, a little patience me thinks.

[__________NicholaSix]

sure other classes need help too, I never claimed that crats were better combatants than soldiers and that they needed to be nurfed.

If monster HPs were cut by 50% the soldier would be fine as is but I'd still like to see more development in their nano lines. My suggestions assume other things in AO remain static. I wouldn't expect to see burst and FA un-nurfed if monster HP's were cut in half.

Soldier is not the most popular class, at 100 I see far more "red" MA's, NTs, enforcers and metas than i do soldiers. Soldiers have been over-nurfed and they need some help if PvM remains constant. Since I don't have a crat, fixer or engineer above level 5 I'll leave you to lobby for them.

[___________bluelogic]

I really believe that the Funcom actually did a good job on the Solider classs. OMG I said good job. The solider really doesn't need to be changed, I mean they still need to fix little bugs that effect most players but this is what I want Funcom to do.


* Give the Soliders more assault rifles. The Nova Flow is getting boring. Sell more Assault Rifles in the store. A well blance fix would be greater damage rifles fire at a slower rate and the other way around.

* Give us more nanos to use. Note I did not say give us super powerful nano, I mean nanos like burst mastery, or my favorite a first aid nano. This doesn't have to be powerful could be something like 40 hps, heck I would be happy with any addition nanos.

* Give us some Solider outfits to wear. I really hate to walk around out of uniform =).

Like I said I'm happy with the solider class. Funcom did well here. I know more soliders will be happy when they fix burst, and full auto, but remember that effects other classes too.

* One Last thing : Add to the board a Solider Top 10 So we can give our suggestions.

Bluelogic

[________Adolanabantz]

Well as someone who has been playing a soldier from day one I have to say that I mostly agree with the criticisms of what Funcom has done with the class.

I should stress first that I have no comments about Soldiers vis-a-vis other classes. I think there are a lot of general balancing issues that need to be addressed but I will confine my comments to the one issue I do know about and that is playing a Soldier PVM.

While some people have said that the damage output of Soldiers is fine the way it is I can only flatly disagree. The whole idea of a the Soldier class (or so I thought when I started playing) was that they are the class who dish out damage. There are simple reasons for this expectation that I won't bother to go into as they have been addressed by others.

As everyone who has played a Soldier knows being able to dish out damage is critical for the class for the simple reason that they have absolutely nothing else to fall back on if this does not work. This is all they are about. They have no healing nanos, the cost of first-aid for the class in terms of IP is such that the first-aid stims in game are all but useless (healing 5-10% of your max health every 30 secs hardly makes a difference). Once you have entered combat as a Solider ALL you have is the hope that you can dish out more damage then the other guy. You can't run (hell most soldier are not exactly speedy especially with the tank armor reductions to run speed), you can't heal yourself, the shield nanos are no huge help... the list goes on, but I will assume you get my meaning by now.

This was not a problem before the various nerfs described in other posts, but now I find myself constantly on the verge of death (and dying), all but incapable of soloing missions, and completely useless in terms of fulfilling the sort of role in a team that I used to be able to. As for soloing, something which I personally enjoy, forget it, it is out of the question as a viable and fun alternative to the group hunt.

The fact is that I don't want to have an "uber" character. I am frankly more of an RPer and a social player, but that said, I don't want to feel like I am fighting against the game mechanics. In no other MMORPG have I ever even really paid attention to game mechanics so the very fact that I notice these things makes me feel that changes are needed.

Solutions? Well I think there are a couple that have been mentioned that are worthy of repeating:

1) Reduce the HPs of the mobs. I don't WANT to spend a thousand years killing one creature (if I am not killed first of course)

2) Healing Nanos (I repeat for emphasis: HEALING NANOS!!!!). Should a Solider (or any other class for that matter) be able to heal as well as a Doctor? Obviously not, but give us something that means I can solo through a mission or not be constantly relying on the Doc (or MA or Adv for that matter) to heal me every 3 seconds (He has 4 other people to take care of afterall)

Idea that were mentioned that are not central to my concerns but are good ones:

-More Assault Rifles: like all good Soldiers these days I have my trusty Novaflow. It's been as good to me as the game will let it, but I would LOVE some viable options

-Uniforms: not sure who mentioned this but neat

-Reduce the nano penalty from tank armour: "hmmm let me see, my nanos suck to begin with and now I am drained when I cast one...great... this is going to be a bad day"

So that's my 2 cents worth. The basic fact is that Funcom has a lot of balancing to do for all classes and in many different situations. I doubt it is easy since they have to worry about each class operating in PvP, PvM, soloing, in groups etc. but it is, I think, the single most important issue in the game. While I agree that they should be concerned about balancing the classes against each other, I think the priority should be to balance each class against the GAME first (I know PvP fans would not agree). This is simply a fundamental that is central to the game being fun (which is the point, afterall). I don't want to hit level 200 in a week. I want to have fun!

[Whiterrabbit]

dude, sorry if i upset you.

I agree, i think those B*****d mobs have far too many hit points, its like hitting a brick wall with a badger. This is something FC needs to sort out, i know players are more intelligent than mobs, but making the mobs invicible is not the answer. Why not, and i hate to say this... Improve the AI! (Im an AI student and am happy to help ).

I agree with you, everyone needs more nanos!!! and more guns!!! but more than that, everyone needs the bugs fixing, then, and only then we can get more content.

Although i have been told i look great in a uniform.........

[______________Cyborg]

Originally posted by ULTRA1
I read it, seems like a lot of people agree with me. It seems like a few don't.

I don't know why asking to have BUGS fixed for my class is so offensive to you, and honestly I don't care, because you discounted any VALUE I'd ever hold your opinion for after your first post.

Sorry, dude. I don't post here to build my value, since you fail to understand my point from the first posting, getting "your approval" is not realy high on my list. Please try to read posts slowly (repeat again and again if neccessary) to fully comprehend.

Ummm, unless you didn't/can't read anything from the previous thraed, lemme summary some quotes of what was written. That way you can understand easier.


U dont wanna tell me u really think this?
U are heroes in PVP and A LOT better in PVM than amy other classes . So plz dont complain. You shouldnt get a heal line (u already got great damage reflect spells).~Faust555

i just got the game. im a lvl 12 soldier. since you say you have basically everything there is to have for the soldier, what else is there left for you to do with that character to keep you "inspired" to keep going on missions and making money?~Skep

really HOPE you are kidding.
Why dont you try playing an MP or Adventurer at that level...then complain.

Geesh why dont you just ask for a God Mode setting like they have in single player games...maybe then you will be happy

Get a grip , soldiers have no reason to complain...at all

Zsedd
54 pistol wielding Adventurer retired till they fix my pea shooters



Why are you so quick to pass judgements on other people when you don't really know me, especially when they don't agree with you ? It is YOU that don't get it.

However, please let me try again. I will try to go slowly this time.

1. Soldiers are one of the best damage dealing class. What you are asking for is to make the Soldier into supermen. Thus I fully agree with Zsedd's post. Instead of going through all the trouble of what you intial post, why don't we add a a key when pressed can make all damage consistently 1k, invincibility mode, unlimited nano, flymode. what else did I miss something ?

2. My comparison with other classes has nothing to do with PvP. Where did I even refer to it ? Let me try to explain this again. Soldiers are the best class compared to other class both in PvP and PvM. Why ? Cause there is nothing to do other than combat.

3. When you get to 100+ levels, there is a balance issue wrt mobs vs players. As if mobs weren't hard enough currently with the higher HPs, chain healing, unlimited nanos. This is the same for all classes, but imagine the horrors it would be for non-combatant classes. Thus ppl are shelving their Level 100+ characters and making new ones, while they fix this issue.

4. When you say that you see more NTs and MAs nowadays is definate indidication on just how long you've actually played. Playing a soldier tends to be boring with constant toe-to-toe combat, especially when you can't fall back and do other stuff such as implant making, NF compling, and gem making. Thus more and more ppl that have Level 100+ Soldiers are playing NTs and MA as the next Uber character of the month.

Call me a bitter, angry player all you like but you don't know me. I've tried to reason with you and backing up all my post with exact evidence, yet you fail to comprehend and resort to name calling (since you don't have the skills to intelligently flame) each time.

AO has depth, complexities and realism. If you want god mode, please go back to playing arcade games, or gameshark hacked console games.

Confusicious says "Don't with argue morons, they will only bring you down to your level"

[__________NicholaSix]

Your facts are wrong

Soldiers aren't the best damage dealers. MAs and Enforcers are the best combat damage dealers.

Soldiers aren't the best at PVP. If you took a ratio of the titleslayers, it would go something like agents, enforcers, doctors, ma's and then soldiers.

As to your re-rolling theory, the MAs, NTs and Metas that I see higher are in the 130-150 range, I doubt any of them are re-rolls.

LOL, "AO has depth, complexities and realism. " realism, good one. You are obviously a very observant person.

You sound like a half-wit and an angry child, you rant on about things that are out of your knowledge, you spew nonsense as "facts" and you think the louder you scream and the more jabs you put in your posts the more credibility your words have. I suggest you know what you are talking about before you begin posting your "facts" in the future. You may seem like a little less of a short-bus kid.

[___________Stanbeast]

Someone commented about me not playing a soldier up to higher lvls. I am not a high lvl but I am lvl 75 and I am on RK2 if you want to find me.

I did loose pvp against.
fixer (he had evades that were 100pts over my attack skill)
enforcer - no need to say way.. he simple hits very hard
MA <--- my alpha doesn't kill him and he can outlive my consistant damage.
mp heal pet and first aid heals him faster then I can kill him.

Not once but several times (most over 10 times) over while using several different tactics. All of these people are friends of mine and the pvp was done for me to learn more about it to become good at it.

main 3 ac's are at 2.4k I use a full suit of assult armor from QL 100-119 and light tank armor QL 106.

I have a full set of custom QL 80 implants that are focused on armor (str/stam) and weapons.

I pvp with Novaflow QL 116 (normal shots)
Portable Laser (burst)
IEC (full auto)

I cannot solo most 50% hard missions and I feel that in a group I am not the damage dealer I should be when fighting.

I have made no claims that are not true and have not asked for anything I would think is unreasonable.

I am not hiding behind anything. Stanbeast is my in game name as it is my posting name. I am bringing up issues that I have seen/felt as a soldier.

[______________Sredni]

Soldiers are not the one of the most played professions, you see a lot of low level soldiers, a smattering of mid level's, and very very few high levels. This is because we suck.... ok an exageration but not by much.

We do indeed deal pretty nice damage, however dealing damage isn't enough in today's rubika. Besides which other prof's outdamage us to a large extent. (enf's, agents, ma's, nt's)

Our buff's arn't sellable, our other nano's are pathetic. We are supposed to be a premiure combat class with little nano capability. However other classes have whined and moaned their way to combat equality so now we're just average combatants with pathetic nano ability's. I say if the other classes have whined their way to combat equality then we need to have viable nano's to compare.

And why do people keep saying we overequip our guns to a huge extent? DUH! STFU about overequiping done by soldiers. We as a class don't equip any gun we can't buff ourselves into. Why is this do you ask? Well because the way soldiers are meant to be played is to use multiple guns. We arn't an agent using a rifle 3 times our level in ql. We arn't an enforcer using a sledgehammer 3 times our level in ql. We arn't a trader using a shotgun 3 times our level in ql. And we arn't an nt using a pillow far far above what he'd be able to use without the wrangles and temporary implants he used to equip it.

The only two professions that are nurfed worse than us are the Adventurers and the Crats. They could fix advents if they gave em a decent pistol to use, and crats... well I don't know how they might be fixed, and I won't begrudge them whatever goes their way.

And the mirror shield is nowhere near the uber nano you all make it out to be. Use your eyes while fighting a soldier and you can ignore it. Sure the soldier takes 75% less damage for a whole 20 seconds (oooooo), but if your stupid enough to dimach while it's up then you deserve to lose. I find dueling other soldiers to be fun because we both start out with our nova's and no mirror. We'll plug away at eachother and we keep our eyes open and if we see a weapon switch we try to get mirror up as fast as possible to avoid the alpha strike. Now there's no visual clue to an ma about to do dimach or BwT now is there? You rooting classes could root us and back away for 20 seconds. I don't even know why I'm telling you this.... oh yes wait, I do. I'm afraid that with all the people whining about how uber mirror is that they'll nurf it even more.

I wish all you naysayers would say what professions you are so I'll be able to heckle any attempt you make at trying to make your professions more viable. I look forward to your posts

[________________Thug]

killed the soldier, then the soldier has gimped himself seriously along the way, whereas the fixer hasn't.
.

[__________Splatmaker]

Originally posted by AgentX
I don't want to ruin soldiers or make agents uber. I just want a game where we all can be happy. And yes, I don't think PvP should be perfectly balanced. PvM on the other hand I would like to see mostly balanced cause all of us *have* to do missions for money.

Would like to see it balanced? That'd mean they HAVE to break conceal. Thought you agents didn't want that.

I see lvl80 agent selling off lvl130+ Elite armor for millions of credits.. See any lvl80 SOLDIERS doing that? Ask'em where they get the stuff and they tell you 'sneaking missions'..

PvM isn't balanced.. Never will be either, cause when we're getting close to a balance, agents will cry nerf (again and again like before) and it'll get messed up again.