You have the wrong end of the stick Rage2010. The '20%' rule doesn't go by comparing your level to the weapons QL... it compares your current skill (including whatever buffs/implants you may have) to that the weapon requires.
You have the wrong end of the stick Rage2010. The '20%' rule doesn't go by comparing your level to the weapons QL... it compares your current skill (including whatever buffs/implants you may have) to that the weapon requires.
Low level agents, and soldiers will still be able to OE to a pretty good extent... low level agent has high level agent cast Unexpected Attack.
That plus Rifle Exp = +140, same goes for soldier nanos. So for about an hour or so, the low level soldier/agent will be able to use a much higher weapon.
Enforcers can also do the same thing. So OE without much in the way of penalities will still be possible if you have the NCU space.
Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1
RK1
I read the update to say 25% damage reduction PER 20% OE. Hence, at 23% over you get the 25% damage reduction.Originally posted by ULTRA1
Fists won't be the best weapon. That's kind of a silly statement, they will be more effective than they were before compared to other weapon users, but their crits won't touch shotgun, flash-point/stiner/nova crits or hammer/beam crits.
I hope you read the OE notes. This is OE fix light. If you remember, their original vision was to actually disable your gun if you fell out of 50% or so of the reqs. This OE fix only hits you for 25% off your weapons damage no matter how much you over-equip. If you are a level 40 trader, you will still do more damage with a ql180 vektor dragon and a 25% damage and crit reduction than using a ql80-90 or so gun you would use from implants and buffs alone to equip.
Funcom did say that Melee classes were intended to do more damage than ranged classes. Enforcers/mas and sword advs are supposed to do more damage over time than traders, agents, soldiers and other ranged classes.
At 43% over equipped you get a 50% damage reduction.
At 63%...75% reduction.
Right?
ah..isn't that a +140 Aim shot buff? If it is (as I suspect) that is not going to help.Originally posted by Grupert
Low level agents, and soldiers will still be able to OE to a pretty good extent... low level agent has high level agent cast Unexpected Attack.
That plus Rifle Exp = +140, same goes for soldier nanos. So for about an hour or so, the low level soldier/agent will be able to use a much higher weapon.
Enforcers can also do the same thing. So OE without much in the way of penalities will still be possible if you have the NCU space.
Take The Shot is +130 aimed shot, Unexpected Attack is +120 rifle, general nano rifle exp is +20, hence +140.Originally posted by Meligant
ah..isn't that a +140 Aim shot buff? If it is (as I suspect) that is not going to help.
I already have UA uploaded.
Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1
RK1
My Bad,
I guess I did have it wrong. I went back and reread the offical post and you guys were right. All thats really gonna be needed is to keep our self buffs up and our implants on, which is what i do anyway. Once the buffs wear off the damage modifier kicks in till you rebuff, WHEW.
I now see that it should not affect my playing style to much, hehe, I have been known to get that odd wrangle to OE as well and since I dont often group, this will be my only set back.
I have no problem with this as we should still be able to do decent damage with our OE weapons through our own buffing.
My armor has always only been self buffed anyway, I dont even use implants for them. So armor is not a prob either.
LOL, first off you aren't over-equiped. I'm suprisded if you can't self equip all that stuff without buffs or even implants.Originally posted by Rage2010
I think its just this simple all, Everyone is able to OE not just a few. Most of the buffs or implants are in the game with only one purpose, TO OE. I guess the original vision for these buffs/implants is not considered good anymore?
For the record i am a lev 38 soldier who is buffed with a ql 67 nova and wears about ql 46 armor. I have no freinds ingame nor do i have a high level char to twink me, I HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS OVER EQUIPING THROUGH DROPS AND NANOS. Why is Over Equiping such a problem when everyone can and does do it?
I DONT SEE THE PROBLEM AT ALL WHEN EVERYONE IS ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING?
Its not like one of us has an unfair advantage. whom is hard done by ? If you ask me changing the present system will somehow help the game out you are wrong.
ITS ONLY GONNA MAKE MANY NANOS/IMPLANTS OBSOLETE AND WHY EVEN HAVE THEM INGAME AFTER THIS.
Why would someone care if the had say, Riot Conrol or that fling shot buff, it does not add to damage, its only for OE purposes, you see where i am going. Many buffs basically allow you to over equip and do very little else. Why even have them ingame at the high levs ?
I am totally oppsed to this change as I feel it is going to make just about all implants and nano buffs useless, so if they do that why not just take them out as well.
I don't know how you think this will effect implants. Implants aren't part of the fix. IF you are going to equip high level armor tho you will need to leave your stat plants in. If you are going to equip a high level nova you will need to leave your AR/Fling/Burst/RE plants in. When I play my soldier, I run AR master, RE master, and total focus and keep them running, they boost your attack rating.
If your current gear is an example of your equipment, nothing in this patch will effect you, in fact, if you decide to PVP you may even stand a slim chance of winning. Not much of one really, but a very teenie weenie chance.
This is what Funbomb has to say about it:Originally posted by Meligant
I read the update to say 25% damage reduction PER 20% OE. Hence, at 23% over you get the 25% damage reduction.
At 43% over equipped you get a 50% damage reduction.
At 63%...75% reduction.
Right?
All weapons more than 20% over-equipped will have DamageBonus, DamageMin and DamageMax reduced with 25%. (DamageMax is the base maximum damage of your weapon. DamageMin is the base minimum damage of your weapon.)
The definition of over-equipped (OE) is: using a weapon if any one of the user's skills/abilities isn't within 20% of what the weapon requires. The formula is:
OE = 100 - (Your Buffed Skill or Ability / Requirement in Same Skill) x 100. If this formula yields 20 or higher, your weapon is over-equipped.
All armour more than 20% over-equipped, will be reduced in protective ability by 25%.
That seems to say that there is no further harmful effect to MASSIVLY OVER-EQUIPING, you are only penalized if you moderately over-equip. This is OE fix light, the original post of their intentions was to do what you suggested, the greater you over-equip the more you are penalized, now you are 21% or 30% over equipped will you be worse off than if you were 100-150% over equipped.
Yep you are wrong. It's not the % relation of your player's level to the ql of the weapon, it's your skill's % in relation to the weapons skill reqs. Of course your implants won't be useless since they are part of the solution to how you equipped that gun. They also improve your attack rating. Your self buffs wont' be useless either.Originally posted by Rage2010
hmm, I thinki have it right, correct me if i am wrong.
At levl 38 under the new OE rules, I would be able to OE up to a 20% better weapon with no penalty, right?
At 38 a 20% better weapon is around 45 or 46 ql not the 67 i have done with my own buffs and implants.
So to use my ql 67 weapon after the new rules would be moot and i would be penalizied, 25% on my damages ?
Remember I self buffed and use very low quality implants to get this ql 67 weapon on, If i bought high ql Implants i could probably go to a ql 75 weapon or so.
Now do you see why my implants and self buffes are being nerfed ?
I truley dont see the confusion, My self buffs and implants really are gonna be useless, so why have them at all.
It just really bothers me when we as legit players use the game and its benifits, as everyone can, and then we are told its cheating somehow. How is it cheating to use a buff or implant for what it was intended? I truley dont understand this.
AS A RULE, if you can equip your weapon with your own implants and buffs, and you can keep those buffs running you will not be effected.
AS A RULE, if you have a trader wrangle you into a weapon who's reqs are 20% higher than your abilities (example AR req is 120, your skill is 100, you get a trader for a 23 pt wrangle to equip) you can use that gun without penalty.
No offense, but I don't think you get what the dev team is doing here. This patch will won't effect your play at all unless you, as a level 38 soldier have never raised AR/Fling/RE/Burst. My guess is you have maxed them, and if you haven't you should.
Ah..ok. ThanksOriginally posted by Grupert
Take The Shot is +130 aimed shot, Unexpected Attack is +120 rifle, general nano rifle exp is +20, hence +140.
I already have UA uploaded.
The Following update was added later:Originally posted by ULTRA1
This is what Funbomb has to say about it:
All weapons more than 20% over-equipped will have DamageBonus, DamageMin and DamageMax reduced with 25%. (DamageMax is the base maximum damage of your weapon. DamageMin is the base minimum damage of your weapon.)
The definition of over-equipped (OE) is: using a weapon if any one of the user's skills/abilities isn't within 20% of what the weapon requires. The formula is:
OE = 100 - (Your Buffed Skill or Ability / Requirement in Same Skill) x 100. If this formula yields 20 or higher, your weapon is over-equipped.
All armour more than 20% over-equipped, will be reduced in protective ability by 25%.
That seems to say that there is no further harmful effect to MASSIVLY OVER-EQUIPING, you are only penalized if you moderately over-equip. This is OE fix light, the original post of their intentions was to do what you suggested, the greater you over-equip the more you are penalized, now you are 21% or 30% over equipped will you be worse off than if you were 100-150% over equipped.
Important update (March 11th, 2002 14:59)
(Gaute asked me to include this here, since it was not explained in the article.)
The 25% reduction in efficiency on weapons and armour will happen for each step of 20% that you over-equip.
E.g. having a weapon that require 23% higher skill than your current skills will reduce its damage by 25%, and having one that require 43% higher skills will reduce it with 50%. (I hope I got that right now.)
Oh, and it will not affect belts, belt components and implants.
Cz
--------------
Hence it goes up after 40% would it not?
Yeah, right.
Fists'll be the best weapons. Yep.
Oh, wait. The game has root and snare spells.
Darn. Looks like you're dead wrong.
Cyteprios: Level 16 OT Crat, RK1.
Omni-Tek prevails, citizen.
I like the penalties in the upcoming 14.2 patch. It doesn't punish you while you are buffed into a item. It only punishes you when you are no longer buffed into that item. It keeps people from OE one day, and then staying that way from that point on. I don't think that extreme OE was intended in the game. It seems very resonable to me, that when you are holding a weapon that takes more skill to use than you currently posses, you don't use it very well.
Another point that I think some of you are missing is the following: There is no flat 25% modifier if you are OE more than 20%. There is a cumulative modifier for each 20% or fraction there of that you are OE past the first 20%.
What this means is the following:
OE Penalty
0-20% 0%
21-40% 25%
41-60% 50%
61-80% 75%
81-100% 100%
This was explained in the 14.2 patch thread after the initial post.
I truely beleive that the penalty only applies according to your current skill level including if it is buffed.
The intension is to keep people from OE, but what will happen in my opinion is there will be a huge rift between the have's and have's not. What I mean by this, is the well organized guilds will have traders grouping with there top players to go PvP or XPing. This will allow a group of 6 players to remain OE for as long as they stay together with no penalties. Secondly, traders will become an absolute necessity for grouping, to the point that they could charge to group. Don't they already charge just to cast one buff?
So, the complaints will be that everyone is forced to group. Well, only if you insist on OE to the point that this patch was needed. I understand the mentality of the OE'ers. It is a challenge to figure out how to get the best loot equiped, but the idea that OE'ers aren't cookies cutters but everyone else is a cookie cutter, is well a big joke.
Just my opinion
Last edited by Player7; Mar 12th, 2002 at 23:08:15.
And of course don't forget that anyone who groups will be able to have those benefits all the time. A few of my characters are traders, and I would be more than happy to keep team members constantly wrangled if needed. Sounds like free xp with no risk to me, as I've never seen a wrangle attract aggro.Originally posted by Grupert
Low level agents, and soldiers will still be able to OE to a pretty good extent... low level agent has high level agent cast Unexpected Attack.
That plus Rifle Exp = +140, same goes for soldier nanos. So for about an hour or so, the low level soldier/agent will be able to use a much higher weapon.
Enforcers can also do the same thing. So OE without much in the way of penalities will still be possible if you have the NCU space.
Didn't see that, guess they did it right then =]Originally posted by Meligant
The Following update was added later:
Important update (March 11th, 2002 14:59)
(Gaute asked me to include this here, since it was not explained in the article.)
The 25% reduction in efficiency on weapons and armour will happen for each step of 20% that you over-equip.
E.g. having a weapon that require 23% higher skill than your current skills will reduce its damage by 25%, and having one that require 43% higher skills will reduce it with 50%. (I hope I got that right now.)
Oh, and it will not affect belts, belt components and implants.
Cz
--------------
Hence it goes up after 40% would it not?
It still won't be too bad for most, and as far as PVP goes, this will be a big buff for traders.
Agreed. Deprive and pluder is going to reduce profs to doing about 17% of normal damage. That's PvP damage with a 50% additional reduction...estimated of course.Originally posted by ULTRA1
Didn't see that, guess they did it right then =]
It still won't be too bad for most, and as far as PVP goes, this will be a big buff for traders.
Hope they exclude those from the calculation for PvP since we all know that it's not going to work in PvM since mobs get a handy trait called MinDamage
Hmm, does that mean I can't go to the arena at lvl 14 and fight a yellow enforcer with 1k life annymore?
Oh geez, I am realy gonna miss that<sarcasm end>
Maby try using a couple guns... one that ya can use when someone who can buff ya is around and one for when your soloing (kinda like an nt uses his/her nfs).Originally posted by Raxle
What if I enjoy playing a character with an OE weapon? You seem to have a problem with that huh? It's not a mine is bigger than your mentality, it's the ability to design a character that's not cookie cutter for his or her lvl. Even if you do enjoy playing with a weapon, your fists are still going to be more effective. Who's going to want to spend any money to OE an item, just to grow into it? It won't be needed. You can just keep upping your MA, Brawl, and Dimach skill every level and grow even more effectively, but for free! The game's going to be stupid.
How is this a bad thing?? traders will now be a large asset to groups... hmmm... not seeing a down side. Traders will now be good at soloing too with their new uber debuffs (which have to be resistable and break with being hit once or twice btw ;p).Originally posted by Player7
The intension is to keep people from OE, but what will happen in my opinion is there will be a huge rift between the have's and have's not. What I mean by this, is the well organized guilds will have traders grouping with there top players to go PvP or XPing. This will allow a group of 6 players to remain OE for as long as they stay together with no penalties. Secondly, traders will become an absolute necessity for grouping, to the point that they could charge to group. Don't they already charge just to cast one buff?
That you chose to reply to only one part of my comments. In the next paragraph I explain why that might be a bad thing. Many people don't like to feel that they are forced to group. Some like to solo. It also means that a slot in the group is being taken up by someone that previously was an OE warrior, not a buffing machine.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. I was just pointing out one direction the complaints might go. I already have read of people wondering if wrangles will be given longer duration. Oh please people, that would be competely counter productive to the intensions of this pacth.
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