Over-equipping - here we go....

[___________Zyxlquith]

1. no one will quit if this patch is delayed/postponed. a lot of people will quit if it goes live.
2. this patch would require rebalancing of almost every class. Engineer pets will need to be beefed up significantly, and engineers will need personal nano-buffs. Alternately, I suppose you *could* just put in a working trade-skill system... as it is, engies are like MPs and Crats, pet-wise but have NO worthwhile nanolines for combat. traders would need to be entirely re-designed. armor reqs (or solitus breed caps) would need to be raised. the effects of this patch will be widespread, and i doubt we've even begun to comprehend the impact it will have on casual gaming.
3. casual gamers *will be hit hardest* by this patch. They will not have large guilds to keep them buffed during missions, or help with implants. They will no longer be able to get free buffs at, oh say TBH buff extravaganzas, because those buffs won't have lasting effect.
4. veteran gamers are getting yet another slap in the face.

this is just a few things i've pulled out of reading this thread so far. i hope CZ can find the same points...

good luck with this guys. prove us wrong. dont' break the game with this patch.

Zyxlquith (96 trader)
-- acting president, omni shadow ops

oh hey, and DONT MAKE WRANGLES LAST LONGER. i HATE being debuffed when they're running.

[______________Dareus]

"I wear QL200 Flowers armor, but my agility is breed-capped at 480 while the armor requires 551.

Even if I reach level 200, I still won't be able to wear any QL200 armor in the game, being Solitus.

Since implant locations are scarce, may I suggest you look into this issue ? "

Lets, Proposed OE rules specifies that only stuff more then 20% over equiped will be affected.

Armor req 551, 80% of that is 441 (rounded up) a full 13 levels before you hit breed cap even without implants.

Whats the problem?

[Bionitrous]

I can only imagine the joy of those lvl 20-120 who will now have to chew through mission after mission after mission after mission after mission of green mobs to gain a level every week or so. Nice to keep the subscriptions paid for an extra six months or so.

I'm definately out to get all 7 of my alts up to lvl100 over the next 8 weeks or so. Oh, and make sure I don't have any Solitus characters there that won't be able to wear qlvl 200 armor. Good thing I'm partial to 'trox and 'fex.

The poorly thought out implementation of this total revamp of the game becomes clearer and clearer with every post in this topic.

How damn simple and idiotic a scheme could they come up with where I can put on qlvl120 armor or qlvl 121 armor and the 121 armor is actually WORSE? Even if you have absolutely no trouble putting it on the better item is worse. Simpletons couldn't think of a way to stop me from getting the qlvl 121 armor on so they take the lamest route possible and introduce ARTIFICIAL caps to cover the inadequacies of their programming and game design skills. Poor guys. Maybe a few more years at tech. school could have helped them.

Hehe, poor Traders. Must be nobody that realizes that a 132 Wrangle drops their skills by what, 160 points? And you expect to get a Wrangle while grouped with them? For what purpose? So they can hit the OE penalty themselves?

One good thing is that lvl200 will now mean what the 1000 token board did before you could get it in a week. You have immunity to the mindless brain-numbing efforts of sitting at a mutant camp or B.S. missions.

Why don't you come back to us with a change that makes sense? If I get the 121 armor on, it better be more effective than the 120 armor. Sure penalize me if I don't meet the requirements. But don't be so stupid as to make it WORSE.

[skybert]

/me grabs an icecream from CZ

Thank you!

/prostrate

[_________darkphoenix]

Overequipping has become a big problem, but mainly in PvP. I you overequip by 25% that just means that you are able to do a 50% difficulty mission(If you're lucky). The only thing this patch is going to do in terms of overequipping is take away the majority of lower level equipping, all we're going to see now is super-twinked noobs running around at lvl 7 with Q200 armor.

The way the patch should work is if you use implants to overequip then you should have to keep them on, there should be some kind of range you should stay within skillwise so it will still be possible to overequip to a reasonable level.

Example- you get buff yourself and get wrangled in order to wear higher Ql armor, when the buffs run out you should not have to have the exact skill requirements needed to use it, but you should have to remain within a reasonable margin so that the armor(or whatever item) will function as normal.

Since the main problem with overeqquiping seems to be PvP and you can get buffed right before arena fights, which makes the patch pointless, since a PvP match can last just as long as a wrangle, there should be some kind of check when entering a PvP zone, so that anyone overequipped by 20% or more will get warned and then nerfed.

Or at least give us (traders) longer wrangles, how does 20 minutes-30 minutes sound?

As it stands right now the only thing this patch is going to do when it comes to overequipping is hijack the Traders main source of income, wrangles. Love it or hate it overequipping is just as big a part of the game as hunting, there should be a better way to stop extreme overequipping, when you figure it out implement it then. Until that day comes let it be, overequipping and AO go together "like peas and carrots."*Bonus points for using a "Forrest Gump" quote.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Bionitrous

Why don't you come back to us with a change that makes sense? If I get the 121 armor on, it better be more effective than the 120 armor. Sure penalize me if I don't meet the requirements. But don't be so stupid as to make it WORSE.

we've all said this.. over and over again.. for months..
i thought we as players were contributing and influencing this decision.
because the game ultimately lives or dies based on what we want
and what we'll accept and what we think is fun.

caps are simplistic and result in utter disgusting mediocrity.

we told you to make it scale.
we told you to never ever make a higher QL weapon WORSE than a lower QL.
we told you to look to the ATK rating for the solution.

all these suggestions completely ignored.
argh.

[_____________Crymcyn]

Originally posted by Morgoth
Why should you be good in pvp ? the best wins in pvp, that includes armor, weapons, skills, implant and true experience.

You guys are just to lazy and therefor want to stop the rest, who are working hard, infact playing the game to pvp, from beating you...be a little less lazy, equip the best you can and then try to pvp and you will do much better.

I can't help but wonder where you people come up with the bright idea that OE is hard work. OE is the lazy way to play. "Oh, I'm gonna go get buffed to twink and back so levels will just get handed to me." <eyeroll>

[____________Arcanian]

If this is going to work you are absolutely need to OE check all items. Implants, cpu, armor, weapons everything. It will do no good if you only check armor, weapon, and pets.

You say the mobs have been changed already. I wonder about this. I have noticed that they are somewhat easier then before 16.8 but are the really reduced enough for the OE change. I remember when the OE started and you increased the mobs to account for it. It was a tremendous change. Have your returned the mobs to that lvl? I think not.

Please please leave this on test and let us go through it. AND THEN LISTEN TO YOUR TESTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FIX THE PROBLEMS WE FIND ON TEST DONT PATCH IT WITHOUT THE CORRECTIONS AND DONT PATCH IT TILL IT WORKS. !!!!!!!\


This I believe is gonna make or brake funcom so it right.


Arcanian

94th lvl Atrox Soldier

[____________Maitrize]

Can I get an approx time frame (ie. date) in which this would go live? I need to know so I can work my butt off leveling my Eng so she's not ENTIRELY gimped when it does.

ARGH WRANGLING IS NOT OVEREQUIPPING!!
This is bugging me so much... I mean it's the only viable option for eng's aside from mochams to pump out a better bot, and with our line of crappy nanos outside of bots... we have nothing.

Then it becomes an individual effort as to where to spend IP for eng weapons, so you can at least fight a little. I mean I was so tempted to go Nano breed so I could pump out the bots eng's can be so practically useless without the higher level bots. ;_; I know my Oni does little to no damage on her own already because I'd been betting on the ability of having said bots.

Thank god an IP reset comes with this patch. -_-

And why refer to bugs as exploits?

It's a bug first. If players use it as an exploit then that's on them. I don't believe it's fair to make it out as if it was an exploit and only that, since the original form is a fault of FC programming and not the playerbase itself.

>_<

All I can say about 14.2:
Thank god my doc will be playable again. (but at what cost? ;_

[____________Lonehawk]

< quote >

... our esteemed customers?

< /quote >


This is very telling of FC's position relative to it's customer base. A bit of sarcasm derived from customers vocally deriding FC more often than not. Also, more often that not, the 'esteemed custormers' have good reason in deriding FC.

[Arinia]

Originally posted by Cz

I didn't want to go uncorrected if I stated something wrong. I posted that earlier.

But, a dark orange pet, fully trimmed and buffed, should not get chewed to pieces that easily. I consider a dark orange MOB worth fighting. The pet is technically a dark orange MOB itself, so a dark orange opponent should be quite possible to take down, especially considering the Engineers' repair nanos. Or do pets at high levels turn considerably weaker than their MOB counterparts?

Cz

Cz:

Plain and simple.

Fighting oranges is not economical (for ANYONE, not just engies). If I fought oranges I would level so slowly that it would be rediculous.

Granted after some math I figured that I am not affected by this patch, as long as I have titan and blunt buffs on.

What about the people who didnt cookie cutter and used Riders, or 2he? They get less effective. -- no buffs!

Secondly, Traders. Something will have to be done about their debuffs, and also that they will become the only class that can weild a decent shotgun. Sorry to all the shottie docs/etc, it stinks but that's the way it is. How long will it take for this to be adjusted.

Also, less damage, doc aggro problem as Steroidjerk said. A valid issue and I'm sure there are many more things like this that may have been overlooked.

Thirdly, if leveling DOES get slow, what about all the 150+ people that have now become gods? My goal when I rerolled to my enforcer was to get up there and be able to fight those high levelers. If leveling does indeed slow (because we have to fight oranges?!?!) it's going to suck.

Anyway. Bottom line is this.

Test.

Test some more.

Test even more.

When you think you are done, test another 2 weeks.

Put this thing on test and leave it there for a LONG time.

... and get the tool for me to copy my character to test working beforehand.

I want to see how this will effect my character. I'm sure a lot of people will too. If you help people understand their changes, I'm sure less of them will quit the game prematurely, before seeing the ultimate effect of this.

[________Deljin Blaed]

Even though I am sure I will get flamed for this I am gonna say it anyway. Why not in the patch automatically make ALL characters take off all armor, weapons, nano-formulas, place them in the inventory along with an overflow box for all the extra stuff and make everyone re-equip their characters...no one would be super twinked cause everybody would have everything off. The only problem that I see with this is the fact that the classes that buff (MP, Trader, Some enf's with stats boosts, and other classes with class specific stat boosts) would become insanely rich from everyone paying for the buffs.



Btw I don't think everyone will be as weak as they think...I am a low-level MP (12)i can equip a level 20 pet and next level i will use a ql24 pet(so this may not hold true for higher levels) but I self-buff myself into a Deep, Dark, Blood red pet...i can solo full red missions as long as I am CAREFUL (meaning not running into a room without looking then complaining cause I die instantly)

[_____________Crymcyn]

Originally posted by Bionitrous


That's just baloney Cz and don't expect the Engineers to keep quiet and not correct you. 20% means a dark orange pet AT BEST. These will get chewed to pieces by any MOB worth fighting.

Quite simply, you're dead wrong. With self-buffed matcrea and spacetime (20 points of each), maxing those stats via ips each level, and good planning with your implants (implants in the normal range of what can be gotten into with no help at all) then you'll have your RED pet (which is nice to have mind you, but even an orange pet, properly trimmed, will own a 50% mission). You just don't want to have to put any effort into levelling.

[Arowen]

Now I play a lvl 134 Trader, I do heals, I do wrangles, I calm, I root, I give damage amplifiers, I try to use the dmg nukes that the trader gets, I admit I have a q200 shotgun on, but honestly it really does nothing. The weapons still do crap dmg unless you have a crit buff from an MA. and besides unless you have about the same HP as the MOB then you really don't want aggro anyway. They easily hit for 2-3 times the dmg we do, and I personally don't think evades work .

I give this planned change a major thumbs down. not only for myself but for others .

Now I understand that overequipping is a little rampant but I believed that was the design of said programs that were in place to allow you to meet requirements. and having a q200 gun doesn't mean that you can go solo missions of that of that ql or even any higher missions then your are currently able, generally you are only able to solo mission of your lvl unless you have pets I have a friend who has a 100+ soldier and he can't solo anything mission wise (well he can but not very well). Now maybe he designed his char wrong, but who knows. Now I personally can't solo missions higher then my own qlvl or at least I don't even want to try. The ones of my qlvl take long enough and I have calms and roots so I can get away if need be. I understand that the divest/plunder line is to aid the trader but when you divest/plunder something for over 400pts and it can still cast an izgimmers (enveloping flame that hits for over 1k dmg) then what is the point to it.

Here is my question should a team have a trader in it, the only thing that trader would be good for is wrangling (which we would have to do every 3min ) to keep the damage up correct?

because we certainly can't do anything else while we are wrangled unless we are very high lvl. the low lvl trader will become a useless class. only the higher lvls will be left. So if you could tell me what use my profession would be I would greatly appreciate it.

Now I know these changes are going into effect regardless of what anyone says (they usually do) but nano cost on spells and duration make some classes wonder why they are playing. A soldier can mk once every 3 or so minutes and it last for about 1min at the highest ql. MOBS take over 1 minute to kill and if you are fighting more then one well you get the idea
I think there are still a lot of things that need to be looked into before the overequipping gets fixed.

Arowen LVL 134 Trader

[_____Poweredge|vault]

Firstly, I'd sooner see FC's efforts going into sorting out the trade bugs that appear from time to time, which as a consequence, caused Claire (L175 NT) to quit, and provided the final straw in Noer (L176 Trader) quitting.

Now... onto the proposal for over-equipping.

The first thing I would do as FC is provide a simulator for people to see whether they are over equipped, and in what areas. This will at least give people a chance to see how badly they are going to be affected.

Point 2. If you're going to throw this little gem into the game without placing checks against implants, then you've only done half the job. Someone with high level friends will be able to get hold of QL125+ implants easier than someone who doesn't, meaning that you've got nowhere in the issue.

Point 3. Traders will become incredibly valued. They can pretty much suck skills from anyone or anything, and therefore can go into battle knowing they are much stronger for their level than anyone else. If the trader decides to suck away at another player, then the other player becomes OE, and even more disadvantaged, and not just against the trader in question.

Point 4. If the requirements for QL200 armour are 551, then you will not be OE when you hit 480. (480*1.2=576). If you want implants above 125, do missions for blanks, and go to the shop. If clusters of 10% lower fit into a certain QL of implant, then QL180 clusters will fit into QL200 implants.

Point 5. If OE is to be put in play, then you need to balance all ability buffs across the board for the associated classes. An enforcer with EoC+ will be able to jam themselves into much higher armour than a soldier would. Int and Psy based classes will suffer tremendously at lower levels too.

Point 6. If NCU is not going to be OE, then traders (again) will be able to get away with being able to use much high equipment than anyone else. I've seen L34 chars get into 6 slot belts, and carry nearly 200 NCU.

Point 7. OE will affect both the social and economic system tremedously, and the amount of social traffic will be reduced dramatically.

Point 8. IP Reset is a good thing. End of story on that one.

This fix is something that I would avoid for a long time for two reasons. Firstly, the problems that already exist in the game that are critical need fixing first. Secondly, I would implement this change on a totally separare box for a good few month, and I may even propose that it be made a separate server altogether that people can play on if they do not like the OE state as it stands.

The first thing that should be done, even has it's own forum now:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/for...s=&forumid=185

Clear that list first, consolidate, then move forward.

This change is a complete rewrite of the game from the players point-of-view. Everything is affected. I'd go so far as to say that it should be called AO2.

If the change does go ahead before critical issues are challenged, then I can see other MMORPG's getting an abundance of AO players moving over to play them instead.

For the time being, at least with the current system, if people use the various channels, make friends, join guilds, etc, then they too can enjoy and use the various opportunities that open up to them in the current world of OE.

Perhaps it's time that all the FC staff actually played this game with regular players, to see how the world affects them from ground level on a real time basis, rather than having to use forums and petitions which will never really describe the issues that players are having at this time.

[_____________Crymcyn]

Originally posted by Dareus


MP's for the most part have no concealment, root or calm. We don't have the Hp's for blitzing though at certain levels we are pretty powerfull due to pet levels.

At higher levels 100ish, I'd personally rather be a crat, trader or NT just for the calm which would be really sweet.

Someone obviously doesn't know what psychosis pets do...

CALM

[__________Subject IV]

The changes of pets is bad, very very bad.

Like what was mentioned above, my robot becomes 100% uneffective, and the soldier only is 25% affected. How is this balanced?????

And all you have done is made the 150+ level players gods, and the rest of us struggle twice as hard to gain levels.

I am now very concerned if my engineer is worth playing anymore. Having a bot higher than me was the only way to solo missions of at least "normal" degree of difficulty.

[______________Drenir]

It sounds like a good patch to me... i like the concept of IPR; a newb's dream come true and maybe i will gain back some lost points... i am new here and i came to AO cuz of the PC Gamer write up...

lots to say on the game but to keep it short: i love the renderings and hate the lag (we all do)... what i love most is this exhibit here...

Funcom posts its up-coming patch and solicits pre-patch feedback... and the tone/mood of the patch notes is friendly but still professional... u guys over there make me feel like it's my game, and i have a say in it (as i would expect since i am paying )...

on the subject of OE: i was given a gift 100k cred when i turned 4th level by a nice clan doctor on RK1, Crepidus (the Great)... i had no idea what OE was, nor did i know the true value of the different weapons... all i thought of when making my purchases was whether or not i could use the item or not.... what i see described by some of the affected players and those that are leaving (or claiming to leave) is something that isnt necessary to play the game fairly... and BTW, i am new here but dont pets heal in /pet behind status anyway? or does it not make a difference cuz the pet will ignore the heal commands anyway... does it heal automatically or on command??

as far as pumping up toons to fit the uber items, thats unfair to us new guys and it is unfair to the opposite team (Clan vs OT vs Neuties)... if u want power over other helpless beings, get some goldfish (and be nice to the little fish)... if u wanna be sociable and have fun in a game working together toward a common goal, this seems like a great place to do it...

i have played EQ and DAoC... WOOOOP WOOOOP Warning Flames Ahead!! WOOOOOP WOOOOP:

EQ is a great place to pay to get slapped in the face... want condescending?? talk to verant... EQ is a good CONTENT game only (and they only took 3 years to make it)... but getting to the content is hell... Mythic will likely be the same way but they will not let u know it (the RVR tho, its done well)... but in both instances, the patch is a hot cup of coffee dropped in ur lap... these are people who should be playing the game but dont... i can ill afford not to walk my department at my job, i will look stupid and so will the dept if i dont walk it regularly... Verant and Mythic dont seem to mind... good luck Funcom on ur new found direction... many appreciate it

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Deljin Blaed

Btw I don't think everyone will be as weak as they think...I am a low-level MP (12)i can equip a level 20 pet and next level i will use a ql24 pet(so this may not hold true for higher levels) but I self-buff myself into a Deep, Dark, Blood red pet...i can solo full red missions as long as I am CAREFUL (meaning not running into a room without looking then complaining cause I die instantly)

Jeez, I wish there was a level-limit to posting on this board.

no offence, but even commenting on the situation when
you're so new to the game is a little arrogant.


am i being too harsh? yeah, im still upset about the article.
in 1day i've gone from hardcore AO fanboy to angry troll.


honestly tho, with our board accounts tied to our AO accounts,
i'd love it if FC would set up a board that only level 75+/100+
whatever characters could post on. where newbies could read
about the highlevel issues without inexperienced/uninformed
players muddying the debate.

[_____Poweredge|vault]

Pantheon... just to fill in the gap for you, TMS MkX lasts 1m:20s and has a 2m shutdown.